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[–]anythingincRed Beret13 points14 points15 points 9 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
Stoney loves to point out a buried lead, but looks like I beat him to this one!
Well fuck me sideways. You're wife has a shitty attitude, and she is your mirror, ipso facto, YOU have a shitty attitude. You are worth exactly what you tolerate. If she gets to be a bitch to you, you are a bitch, and why would a wife want to fuck her bitch? She wants to get fucked.
Have you EVER stood up to her? Have you EVER not tolerated shitty behavior at any point?
[–]thefucknot points points points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I dont verbally engauge it becomes a tit for tat. I usually just remove my attention, go lift, etc.
I've gone as far as suggestiing I'll leave if the relationship doesn't improve. I dont feel like u tolerate it but not sure what to do
[–]InvincibleKraken9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Bingo! Here's the problem. She knows you aren't serious. What boundaries and deadlines do you have in place? What does "if the relationship doesn't improve" mean? Does she know? Do you know?
If you are this unhappy, it's time for the talk. If you're not ready for the talk then at least give her a "map" of your intentions. (Not your MAP, of course, but a description of what you expect and what will happen if it doesn't happen.)
You are correct. Shes calling my bluff. I really dont want to leave my kids and she knows it
[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Finally we get to the truth!
She isn't calling any bluff. She already knows your hand and she has her hostages as insurance.
However, I am not sure doubling down on the DNGAF and STFU is going to work. The problem is you are pissed off because your not getting laid and your wife isn't responding and she is feeding off your emotional vibe. Its a vicious circle and you don't break it by running around faster and faster.
If you were a fun loving person who brings the smiles she would, of course, find something about THAT to complain about- but that's not you. Am I right?
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This. She still holds all the cards because you are unwilling to make the big step... fuck me or fuck you.
She has NO incentive to change.
She's still running this relationship.
[–]InvincibleKraken2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Unfortunately, you don't really have much leverage then. From your description, it seems as though she holds you in open contempt. You may have progressed on your MAP; she may just not care anymore. If you don't want to leave your kids so you won't leave her, you will need to figure out how best to manage things for yourself and the kids.
[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
If your wife is logical, for a woman, try it when she is being unreasonable but calm. Just point out that she is being disrespectful and that is "not appropriate" or whatever. I told my wife "Hey, you don't talk to me like that, try again" and "don't talk to me in the tone." It works if you can take control and prevent a meltdown.
[–]FailingBillionaire2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
"Hey, you don't talk to me like that, try again" and "don't talk to me in the tone." It works
Teach us, master. Write a post about engaging the bull head on.
[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I will do better than a post. How bout an book chapter!
[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I think /u/anythinginc nailed it. It sounds like you are damn near the finish line. What you are missing is a little of the IDGAF attitude.
I dont verbally engauge it becomes a tit for tat.
I'm not saying go out and stir up shit just for the hell of it, but you can't walk on eggshells all the time. This is you living in her frame and it makes you weak. Your passive dread has not been any dread at all. Maybe she does realize you have options, but she thinks you are too pussy to do anything about. Or, she has her pussy up too high on that pedastal.
I don't even think you need to jump straight to active dread either. Once you start rocking the boat and not caring what the hell she thinks about it you will start seeing changes.
Use WISNIFG to properly handle these altercations. It will keep them from spiraling out of control into a bigger shit show than they need to be.
[–]red_blue_and_hot0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Actually, I think he absolutely should go stir some shit up. Start an argument, treat her like the oldest teenager in the house, use A&A, display AM. The whole post reeks of "Mommy, look at me now." and him being afraid to offend her. Offend her! What is she going to do... be a bitch about it? Sounds like she is already.
Get the feelz going, and show that IDGAF attitude.
Another thing I notice from the post is fitness and income, but I don't see anything about activites. Where's the social step of dread? A ripped guy at home playing video games and jacking it to porn is still a guy at home playing video games and jacking it.
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
assuming this is all correct, I think you're correct that this woman you're married to doesn't care about you and isn't sexually attracted to you. Your wife is one of the unusual ones in which the man's changes and improvement hasn't brought her around. Probably time to consider that this is as good as it's ever going to get; so you then decide to either (1) live with it; or (2) fold this hand and be dealt another.
[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Some women are so emotionally invested in the status quo and are so lacking in imagination that they cannot see or imagine that they have to do ANYTHING. You are MARRIED bitch. He is not going anywhere. She believes it. You know it.
Your situation is the precise reason I wrote in Dread Levels 11 and 12 (get a girlfriend/tell your wife). Some women don't "get it" until it hits them in the face. The trick is leading her right to that point without going over (usually) and getting her attention.
TLDR: You are not fucking anything up but you have to be prepared to pull the trigger.
Shit test are in abundance at my house, comfort test don't happen so often....If our conversation is about anything other than kids/logistics it usually degrades into an unpleasant exchange.
This is important. Interesting that you chose to put it at the very end.
To offer an alternative perspective, I don't know you or your wife but I would put a 10 spot on this is a woman who is overstressed, working full time, running kids everywhere, and she is tired. She resents her husband because she has to work full time. Just a guess.
If that is even a bit true then it sounds to me like you could both take some more time off and enjoy life a bit more when you are making good money. I told my boss I work 40 hours a week unless there is a trial. That's the deal.
[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
she frequently displays a shitty attitude, even beyond the shit tests. She has a short temper and is hostile.
Your wife clearly does not respect you. Women don't want to have sex with males they don't respect. If you are physically attractive, have a good income and own your shit around the home, kids, and in life, the lack of respect must be due to some major failure in frame or masculine behavior.
I forgot to add
Deliberately or subconsciously, you have tried hard to avoid giving us any information regarding your frame and interactions with her. (You are "burying the lead" as several others have pointed out.) Your mind thus knows that the real problem lies here, but is either protecting your ego, or is desperately seeking a solution that doesn't require asserting your own frame with your wife.
It is difficult for us to advise you when you hide all of the important information from us. So you will have to diagnose yourself, and get past your ego and share the embarrassing truth with us if you want useful advice.
First, what type of "dysfunctional captain" are you? (Very likely you are either Type 2 or Type 3.) That post also has useful roadmaps for each Type which should give you high-level guidance for fixing your situation.
Next, study carefully the ongoing stories of /u/resolutions316 and /u/prarrott by reading all of their "submitted" and their OYS posts, and the comments regarding frame. These two are current, well documented, and clearly written examples of gentlemen who, like you, lift and have improved their physical attractiveness, are professionally successful, at least mostly claim to own their shit with home and kids, but due to (somewhat different) failures of frame and lack of masculine behaviors, have largely failed (yet) to gain respect and attraction from their wives. By studying their stories, you should gain insight that will help you diagnose your own.
Like you, both /u/prarrott and /u/resolutions316 have focussed their MRP self-improvement efforts on the aspects that they personally find relatively easy (such as lifting, appearance, and career), and have put less productive effort into frame-related improvements, which (for different reasons) they find relatively confusing, difficult, or frightening. /u/prarrott's pre-MRP behavior was remarkably similar to that of a stereotypical bitch (passive-aggressive, shit-testing, arguing, angry outbursts, blame-shifting, evasion of responsibility, and DEERing), and he has found it very difficult to develop and display consistently masculine behavior and frame with his wife. /u/resolutions316 remains deathly afraid of asserting himself or challenging his wife.
Do either of these archetypes of relative failure to develop masculine behavior and frame that command respect from their wives reflect you, OP? If so, carefully read and reflect on the advice given to them, as it is likely relevant to you.
I don't verbally engage it becomes a tit for tat. I usually just remove my attention, go lift, etc.
Like /u/resolutions316, you may be very afraid to challenge her. As /u/weakandsensitive frequently and rightly reminds us all,
Don't be afraid to cause discomfort in the relationship when warranted.
Caveat: It is possible that even if you gain the respect of your wife, she still won't want to fuck you more. But it is almost certain that without that respect, she will not, however ripped and rich you become. Focus your efforts on developing masculine frame and behavior.
Edit: You might also benefit from reading /u/strategos_autokrator's inspiring and well-written submissions about his challenging but ultimately successful efforts to develop frame and gain the respect of his difficult wife.
[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
I guess just stop working on your MAP's because obviously your wife is obviously the exception to the rule and she has nothing to gain from your MRP.
I see what you did here. MAP is about me I get that. I'll never stop self improving.
I don't think she's an exception, AWALT. It's not what she has to gain, it's about what I can gain. I'd like a better marriage.
I'm fucking up somewhere but I don't see it.
[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Many times a wife is not attracted to your personality. This is why we are always talking about A&A, AM, OI, etc... Many of the men here start seeing alot of improvements when they start incorporating their PUA reading into their marriage. You don't mention anything about your stages of dread so I would guess the first place to look is see where you are at. I will shoot a guess and say 3.
I did mention dread, I've only tried passive. I'm at level 7.
In regards to active dread, I'll need to create an opportunity to employ that. Currently the wife hardly leaves the house, never wants to do anything.
[–]gettingmymojobackRed Beret5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
"Currently the wife hardly leaves the house, never wants to do anything "
That sounds like the missing piece of the puzzle to me.
Your MAP mentions everything except fun. Lifting, finances, kino, escalation.....but no fun.
You can be ripped, shredded, cubed and diced with a fat wallet, a huge house and a housekeeper but if you're boring none of that matters. Perhaps you've focused so much on the tangibles that you've missed out on the one most important intangible.
Women get off on riding the emotional roller coaster of highs and lows. Are you giving that to her? Do you fuck with her for shits and giggles? Surprise her with unexpected activities? Call her on the way home and tell her she has 15min to get dressed for whatever you have planned and refuse to tell her anymore info? When was the last time you treated her like a bratty little girl?
Aside from lifting/being attractive it was the revelation that boring is the absolute worst thing you can be that really changed the dynamic in my marriage.
Don't be boring. If you can't be fun, be a jerk. Be a dick. Be anything but boring.
[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The worst way for a man to be described by a woman is 'nice'.
'What'd you think of him?'
'He seemed nice.' <-- brutal.
Nice in this sense means there was nothing interesting enough about him as an individual to be worth noting. Generic and bland and unthreatening.
the wife hardly leaves the house, never wants to do anything.
Why do they always bury the lead. Jeez Louse.
My suspicions above are all but confirmed.
[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Could it be... Could it be that you're.... Booorringg? You say you're fun but 90% of your post is like statistical shit. And basically it's just all the shit you're supposed to do if you OYS. OYS doesn't = getting laid. No girl ever is like dayyummm that boi pays his bills and values a healthy lifestyle! I'm gonna suck his dick! Oh unless they want to lock you down for provisions... but she already did that. And for real 70/30 on you doing all the chores but 40/60 on parenting? And you have a nanny? Priorities bro. What value is she really even adding to your life? Sounds like she has a sweet deal. You need to Dread and become unpredictable. You're her sure thing. It's consistent. You're consistent. It's boring.
Why be committed if she turns you down?
[–]eyeswideshut732 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
New but my thoughts from reading and listening to others is she is not the only fish in the sea(sounds like she is a starfish!) I would move on with active dread and next her if she isnt responding to your improvements ...
Three Ideas for you that I see between the lines that might help:
You may be using red pill to get back the blue pill dream (sprinkling alpha). You may not have completely let go of the Disney dream of an easy life.
Because you are sprinkling alpha on it, you are not seriously committed. Your wife knows that you will fold, and, is not the least worried.
Your wife might need to see OTHER women's view of you. You need to take her out around people that will notice your changes AND tell her what they notice. IMO a woman doesn't see a damn thing, but she will believe other women tell her. Strange but true.
Additionally, as I read your post, my OVERALL opinion is that you are not as far along as you think. Keep working.
[–]Murphbah1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Just a noob Red Piller with questions/observations so take it for what it's worth.
Do you game your wife? That seems to be something that's not enforced as much as it should be in the MRP community.
Do you honestly feel and internalize OI?
Do you take the time to just STFU and listen to her?
They say to treat your wife like a girlfriend you're trying to fuck, and it makes sense.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Was she always like this?
Why did you marry her?
I don't remember things being like this in the beginning, but it's been like this longer than not.
I was on cultural autopilot. I had no parents of my own, no model for masculinity or marriage. I had no idea how to have a relationship or what a good relationship is. I woke up in a ten foot hole holding a shovel.
[–]redandswollen1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
In this case, you've improved physically, professionally, and have your life on lock down. Maybe it's time to look at some of those blue-pill relationship bonding books. You've got nothing to lose, because it's not like you can kill attraction when it's not there.
I like this one--
https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principles-Making-Marriage-Work/dp/0609805797
It's pretty good-- it can help you figure out some of the bad patterns you do that make your wife not emotionally connected to you
[–][deleted] points points points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
never seen that book mentionned before. would be best if you provide more than a new users opinion without substantiation
[–]InvincibleKraken1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I've read the book. It won't help OP. Like most "relationship" books, it assumes two willing partners who will help each other feel the feelz more. He's better off following the advice here -- going all the way up the levels of dread and coming to terms with what's going on--she's contemptuous of him and has no incentive to change. He needs to make up his own mind now; the book is useless.
Figure, but gave op benefit of the doubt.
[–]InvincibleKraken0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'd like to read OP's promised write-up about it. He may have found some value where I didn't.
[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You are in denial.
Claiming level 7 dread and you are not passing her shit tests.
Read Superior Male, then reread the basics. Info should start falling like dominos
Oneitis Your post has the making of oneitis. Oneitis is unattractive.
Frame. Waiting for her to comment about your body at the pool comments, you are operating in her frame.
Your post reels of doing all for her acknowledgement. Unattractive
[–]HangingSalami1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
She probably cheating on you. That's the only thing that explains the this behavior. Or she's and entitled bitch with a serious princess syndrome. Your ducked either way bro.
[–]roadblock820 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Are you gaming her constantly? I'm new at this, but of all the things I've been doing, this has by far had the most dramatic effect. On days when I get home from work and immediately seek her out for a little make-out session/10-second kiss, tease her a little, drop sexual innuendos until she's laughing and rolling her eyes, she's in a much better mood and very responsive to my escalating later. On days when I don't do this, she'll either act indifferent, or worst-case, start asking questions like "are you mad at me?" , "what's wrong?", etc.
I do game her, kino, etc. She is receptive to it, seems to enjoy the attention but it does not translate to sex. It's not uncommon for her to stick her hands down my pants, get me hard and then go about her day. I've been wondering lately if she just wants to know that I desire her. idk
[–]freshona0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Got some specific shit-tests and your replies you feel like sharing?
I get a daily shit test before I go to the gym anything from:
Her: I bet you like watching all the girls at the gym.
Me: Yep but not as much as they like watching me.
or
Her: You worked out 5 times this week don't you think it's enough.
Me: Nope! (smile and flex guns on the way out)
I've begin to ignore a lot of shit test lately too...
[–]discobolus_ points points points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Both of your replies are kinda thirsty.
How so?
[–]HeyItsHarvey0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yep but not as much as they like watching me.
Translation: I'm full of myself and horny because I'm not getting any.
This shit is week. You don't brag to your wife that other women are checking you out. That's lame. I get eye fucked by middle aged women on elevators at work all the time, I don't say shit.
Nope! (smile and flex guns on the way out)
Translation: I seek attention/validation from working out.
Better replies. To the first: "Yeah but no one has an ass like yours." (smack/grab ass, kiss, whatever). To the second: "Nah." And leave.
You're telling her how awesome you are.
"Girls check ME out"
Seems like there's some degree of frustration that she doesn't notice, so you make a point to tell her.
When you tell her, it doesn't inspire dread. It makes you look needy.
[–]freshona0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
So what would you say?
[–]red_blue_and_hot0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You don't. Women say, men do.
Look at it this way. Let's assume he was cheating. What would be the last thing he'd say? Anything about other women, because he doesn't want to be caught cheating!
But, his actions would change. He becomes more fit and more social, providing the means to cheat. He starts getting out the house more often, creating the opportunity to cheat. And his motive changes away from constantly chasing her around the house for sex. He becomes more relaxed and more fun, if he is getting his needs met elsewhere. He becomes less needy and hungry of his wife, if he's getting his needs met elsewhere.
I'm sure it's no accident that the levels of dread are exactly the set of actions to provide the man the means and opportunity to get his needs met elsewhere if his wife doesn't step up. DL 5, the level of a healthy relationship. is the state where the man has the means through fitness, passing shit tests, general attitude, dress, game, kino, and of that; and has the opportunity because of his life apart from his wife, that the woman is convinced to change his motive by stepping up sexually.
[–]blarggggggggggg0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If she is as disrespectful as you say, and this kind if stuff keeps happening, I'm tempted to advise you really ramp it up and blow her out of the fucking water.
A response like, 'not as much as i enjoy fucking them' might be good. You have to be ready to calmly handle her anger, but show her you are in charge of you and dont give a fuck about what she thinks or her emotional manipulation shit test games.
Others here may disagree. You will need solid frame to pull it off.
hahahahahahaha.
you ever hear the phrase, speak softly and carry a big stick?
you're carrying a little stick and yelling at the clouds.
[–]askmeanything20 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I've not tried any active dread ...
Why?
Did you flirt with pool girl?
Do you flirt with any women?
[–]AmericanViking640 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Why are you still with her/why haven't you found pussy elsewhere?
Why haven't you told her to get lost?
Your answer cannot include anything about kids.
Kids is the answer tho?
[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Hostages.
Wrap your head around that and you will be on your way.
Read it and weep
Children as Hostages
CHILDREN ARE endearing, which in itself is no reason for producing them. The creation of a child is in effect the creation of an adult – man or woman. Most adult men live in a state of permanent hell. And the happiness of most women is not only primitive but obtained mostly at other people's expense, so that there is no justification for reproducing them. It would be mistaken to maintain that only women are interested in having children. Men want them, too. Children are one of the two or three excuses by which they justify their subjection to women. Women, on the other hand, need children to justify their laziness, stupidity, and lack of responsibility. Both sexes exploit the child, therefore, for their own ends. Although the whole world is full of half-starved orphans, every couple produces its own brood. Man must have a reason to be enslaved when, later on, his sexual powers have declined, and this reason must also explain his enslavement to a particular woman. This is simple. She is, after all, the mother of his children. Since woman is the excuse for his subjugation, he can have only one at a time (in every industrial society, man is monotheistic – i.e., monogamous); more than one god (woman) would make him insecure, lead him to question his own identity, and throw him back into the state of freedom he is constantly trying to escape. Questions such as this do not interest woman. As she does not think abstractly, the problems of existential anxiety do not touch her. She has no need for a deity to give meaning to her life. All she needs is an excuse for making one particular man work for her long after he ceases to want to go to bed with her.
40k side income - passive income stream or what?
you've got 2 kids under 5 and you're both more interested in working than building a family. all sorts of red flags for me. and the rest of the regulars have it covered.
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[–]anythingincRed Beret13 points14 points15 points (15 children) | Copy Link
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