CMV: Most men see themselves as being in the top 20%

[deleted] · 2018-10-15T02:09:29+00:00

I can't believe this needs to be stated, but cringy and annoying aren't against the rules. Quit reporting shit just because you don't like it.

NalkaNalka · 2018-10-15T01:08:52+00:00

Most average guys consider themselves slightly above average. Not top 20. But that is obvious though. It's natural for humans to overvalue the things they are good at and undervalue the things they are bad at.

ThorLives · 2018-10-15T02:51:33+00:00

If it were true, men wouldn't BEMOAN the 80-20 rule. Every time I've heard a guy talk about the 80-20 rule, it's always with a complaining tone. If all these men thought they were in the top 20%, they'd be saying, "Fuck yeah, the 80-20 rule means I'm getting all the chicks because I'm in the top 20! All those other guys can suck it. Long live the 80-20 rule!"

If you made a lesser statement that everyone overestimates their own value a bit, I'd agree with that. Part of this is that people will tend to focus on positive attributes that they have. If you're good looking, you can say, "I'm above average because I'm good looking!". If you have a good sense of humor, are intelligent, or make a lot of money, you can focus on how important those attributes are. There was an article a while back about how unattractive people get together, and it found that unattractive people focus on attractive aspects of their partner. If he/she isn't very physically good-looking, they focus on personality or kindness or intelligence or whatever. People can do the same thing with themselves.

Most men do NOT think they're in the top 20%. Although, a guy at the 50th percentile might see himself as being at the 60th percentile.

This overestimation is not limited to men, of course. A friend of mine one told me that she (a chubby hispanic girl) thinks she is an 8.5/10. I'll give her credit for having a gregarious personality, but I couldn't help but think "8.5?"

Ubermensch-1 · 2018-10-15T03:29:16+00:00

No, but many men think they can score women who are out-of-their-league lookswise, in spite of their drastically different SMV. To boot, women (like OP) are probably exposed to these men more, since they're more likely to hit on them.

Every high school had a hot chick with a creepy, older, stoner boyfriend.

Eastuss · 2018-10-15T07:34:01+00:00

How can you have such view? Majority of men deal with so little attention from women and so little success rate it's impossible they view themselves as the top 20%.

This level of disillusion is something women have. On top of having an apex fallacy that makes them think the 20% best looking men are just average. Which is probably why you have the impression that average men think they're in the top 20%...

boundarychimps · 2018-10-15T02:47:49+00:00

If self-estimates of attractiveness follow the same rule as self-estimates of skill, then the Dunning-Krueger paper says everyone thinks they're between 50% (the people actually around 0%) and 75% (the people actually around 100%).

So a reasonably-informed first guess is that nobody thinks they're in the top 20%.

darudeboysandstorm · 2018-10-15T13:17:56+00:00

No. Most men see themselves as more attractive than they actually are. But most men don't see themselves as top 20%. If you're a top 20% man, you know it and it's made clear to you. Top 20% men have no problems getting LTRs and only slight difficulty getting pretty much everything else. They get lower level women literally throwing their pussies at them. A top 20%er can always slum it with a 4 or 5 any day of the week, can get 6s and 7s with ease, and can get the occasional 8 or 9.

Most men struggle to even get 5s and 6s to acknowledge their presence, much less talk, get a date, or fuck. If you're in that group, you know that too. Believe me, you know it.

So, no, most men don't see themselves as top 20%ers. Most men know they are NOT top 20%ers.

[deleted] · 2018-10-15T04:49:01+00:00

It's because these men think women feel attraction the same way they do.

"If most women are somewhat attractive, so should most men, right?"

gunbusterxl · 2018-10-15T11:28:03+00:00

You're projecting.

Most men see themselves as average. They also view most women as average, which is why they approach so many different women.

oftheinfinite · 2018-10-15T01:09:34+00:00

I don't think there is any truth to this. There is such a thing as 'juggernaut theory', which is a large number of men thinking they have more of a chance with an average looking, unattractive or fat woman and flock to them only to notice that large number of men are after them. I have experienced it with the few women that were in my level and who I was with for a short while when I though I could lower my standards and be happy. The number of men who wanted one of the women I was with was astonishing, and her attractive sister, which I secretly wanted to fuck so bad, did not have men flirting, catcalling or asking her out and even made a note of this herself.

Yes, I am exclusively attracted to attractive women. No, I don't see myself as top 20%. No, I don't even demand attractive women. The myth that men have higher standards on physical appearance is just that--a myth. Women are way more picky as far as physical appearance is concerned: women are very strict on height, penis length, a man's hands, shoulders, and of course, face. In fact, women are way more picky even when it comes to things like personality as character. They analyze every part of a man's appearance whereas I've never seen a man other than myself who has remarked about how mediocre a woman is for having a small, shapeless ass or not tits, and so on. My experiences on reddit, the internet in general and real life have shown me that I am the pickiest man I know. I'm always disgusted and even annoyed when I see the "men will fuck anything" line because it's true.

Men do not see themselves as part of the top 20% because the majority of men are attracted to the vast majority of women whereas the majority of women are not attracted to the vast majority of men.

[deleted] · 2018-10-15T02:36:15+00:00

I know that I am for sure not in the top 20%. But that don’t stop me.

blackedoutfast · 2018-10-15T04:08:37+00:00

you're probably correct, but it's not specifically related to men or PPD or TRP or any of this stuff.

illusory superiority is very widespread phenomenon that shows up in many different areas.

it's common in surveys that ask people to rate their own abilities for the overwhelming majority (often ~90%) of the respondents to rate themselves as "better than average" when describing things like job performance, social popularity, ability to get along well with others, driving skill, etc.

so it wouldn't be at all surprising if a large majority of men described themselves as better than average.

InformalCriticism · 2018-10-15T07:38:05+00:00

"I challenge you to prove something both impossible and irrelevant!"

Eartherry · 2018-10-15T13:09:26+00:00

I think this is where the entire, "women are dumb" stereotype comes from. Because if she's smart, she's capable of making sound decisions. The only way for men to reconcile being rejected while still maintaining their self image is if she has a problem that makes it difficult for her to see the obvious.

It's hard to know for sure, though. Do men do this as a way to convince themselves, to keep from feeling less than? Or do they want to convince others women are less than, to then justify why it's ok to demean and harass them?

beachredwhine · 2018-10-15T01:37:50+00:00

According to 80/20 posts I've read, you're automatically in the top 20% if you can get casual sex. So I'm in the top 20%. I never thought of myself as top 20% before that, in fact I hadn't considered how attractive I was much whatsoever.

IveBeenReborn · 2018-10-15T01:49:24+00:00

This is actually true. Most men overestimate our looks.

average-brown-dude · 2018-10-15T03:45:51+00:00

I doubt it. I’m decent looking, but I thought I was a hideous mofo most of my life in spite of the girlfriends and fun I had in college.

Even now I feel that way.

[deleted] · 2018-10-15T10:25:48+00:00

How many men will actually admit to being a chode and not being in the top 20% of men?

Were you not around for the purge? This made up like 90% of all posts before mods had to ban the incels.

Every time you see 80/20 brought up here it's always in a negative context, it's never guys bragging about being in the top 20%.

Are we just looking at different subs orrrr?

Quadtastrophe · 2018-10-15T14:59:48+00:00

I'm a Chode. I got a 6 on Hot or Not in 2001. Any of you young fucks (or old fucks) remember HotOrNot.com?

But I'm a feminist bluepilled gender traitor so I get laid plenty with my steady feminist girlfriends who do not exist according to red pill

[deleted] · 2018-10-16T07:13:54+00:00

It is an statistical analysis from dating apps and sites, it is by number of the population.

80% of the female population of those sites only shows signs of interest to 20% of males in the plataform (normalized by gender discrepancies).

You seen to have not understood the concept.

jkonrad · 2018-10-17T18:15:04+00:00

Odd thing to say. You have a whole sub of dudes right there who don’t think they’re in the top 20%.

reluctantly_red · 2018-10-15T01:30:45+00:00

Lets see:

82nd percentile for income, 98th percentile for education, 99th percentile for height.

Where the fuck are all my hot chicks?

toronto87 · 2018-10-15T01:00:03+00:00

I make more money than 97% of single men my age in Canada. Taller than 85% of men my age.

As for personality and looks well, I don't know lmao

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BisquitBill · 2018-10-15T01:05:52+00:00

You sound like you're ready for a heart to heart confession, like one of these young dudes who tries to fight people he thinks who can beat him as a test of his manhood. But inside, he's ready for a homoerotic experience where he confesses his inner desire to give over his body and his mind to a larger, more powerful man.

If that's what you're here for, okay, but I am not into that sort of thing. But, what I can do for you, /u/lemonfloss is listen to your confession.

See, you keep returning to PPD in order to find something... closure, maybe?

This topic you posted, the one about 80/20 rule, has been discussed dozens of times on this subreddit.

example:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/4644d4/gay_perspective_on_the_8020_rule_and_how_being/

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2yipqi/from_the_new_york_times_women_are_suffering/

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3gwed0/cmv_women_are_only_attracted_to_the_top_20_of_men/

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/8fxlsy/the_allure_of_selfpity/

messiahslave · 2018-10-15T10:21:18+00:00

here is your answer on why people will not easely admit being a chode :

"For whenever a man conceives his own actions, he is affected with pleasure, in proportion as his actions display more perfection, and he conceives them more distinctly that is, in proportion as he can distinguish them from others, and regard them as something special. Therefore, a man will take most pleasure in contemplating himself, when he contemplates some quality which he denies to others".

I'm a chode btw but thanks to the autor of the quote, I don't really mind being one ^^

nihilistic_spaghetti · 2018-10-15T11:03:41+00:00

and the one who don't are called incels

[deleted] · 2018-10-15T11:27:09+00:00

Most men think they are average I’m like a 5 and my much more attractive friend thought he was a 5 lol.

deepfatthinker92 · 2018-10-15T11:54:59+00:00

Lol...like women don't think they're the top shit all the time.

passepar2t · 2018-10-15T14:53:41+00:00

I think most men see themselves in the top 50%. Nobody thinks they're below the mean (except a handful of us low self esteemers) but everyone is super insecure these days and few people consider themselves approaching the summit of olympus. I disagree with you.

LUClEN · 2018-10-15T16:17:46+00:00

Isn't this view flawed on both sides of the the issue due to the inherent lack of objective, universal barometers for attractiveness?

In any event, I think outcomes are truly the simplest way to get estimate measures of anything, so I'll bite the bullet and say that myself and anyone else who was failing with women and sought online advice is likely quite generally unattractive. To deny this would be contradictory.

maruthescruffydog · 2018-10-15T20:58:35+00:00

I think that that men see themselves as being higher/lower on smv scale because it is very difficult to determine.

First of all how do determine what attributes constitute being in the top 20? Is it height, looks, money, muscle mass, intelligence, status?... A combination of these? And how much does each attribute contribute to the overall score? I mean if you are in the 80 percentile for, looks and intelligence but you are in the 20 percentile for height are you the are the mean of these factors or does height factors higher than look and intelligence etc ?

Second of all, if a man's 8 a woman see him as average, if a man's a 6 she see him as 3, so you can never get an accurate determination from a woman.

Thirdly, some men will only score you positively on attributes that they also possess.

Fourthly men and women project their own requirements on the opposite gender would require

So without a proper metric to determine your smv it is very probably that men wrongly judge themselves

PieceBringer · 2018-10-16T09:52:26+00:00

Lol this is ridiculous.

InformalCriticism · 2018-10-16T14:18:35+00:00

The reality is that most men are ignored in their day to day life in ways that women can't fathom. Women are conditioned to be oogled in public, and without some immensely distinguishing feature, men do not get that same eye time.

For me, it's about 50/50. I'm still a little surprised when women make eye contact and smile. I don't have a pattern for why, probably just familiarity, maybe my clothes are more form fitting and it's that part of their cycle.

If I had to be brutally honest, I'd say I hover reliably below the 80th percentile, but younger women - inexperienced women - are quite taken with me (romantically), and for whatever reason, that hasn't changed over the past 10 years.

I think I'm 10 months of seriously hard work from hitting 80%, but it just hasn't been that important to me given my LTR situation.

BiggerDthanYou · 2018-10-15T07:20:30+00:00

You are close, but TRPers, MGTOWs and incels whine about the 80/20 rule because they consider themselves to be part of the forever-alone 80%

They moan about women's high standards because they consider themselves to be average (or slightly above average) although they are actually in the bottom 20%.

It's simply much easier to complain about hypergamous women than it is to accept that they are at the very bottom of the barrel.

TallSwaggOVO · 2018-10-15T17:06:10+00:00

No most me do not see themselves as the top 20%. They may think they are more attractive than what they are, but that doesn’t mean top 20%.

Women have this same problem, only its structurally worse and in their favor (in the dating/casual sex sense). Women are so used to getting fucked by men that want to get into their pants or men that are 9s and 10s, while they may only be a solid 7 themselves. This inflates her ego because now if a guy that’s a 7 hits on her, she won’t want to drop down her standards, even to someone that is on her level.

Usually, a guy doesn’t overshoot. It’s just that the girl is used to higher grade men, so she won’t want to stoop back down to her own level.

Title	CMV: Most men see themselves as being in the top 20%
Author	lemonfloss
Upvotes	23
Comments	140
Date	October 15, 2018 12:53 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9o82fu/cmv_most_men_see_themselves_as_being_in_the_top_20/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-most-men-see-themselves-as-being-in-the-top-20.259451 https://theredarchive.com/post/259451

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