Why do RPillers tend to be ultra biological determinists?

Eastuss · 2017-07-10T11:54:31+00:00

Why do RPillers tend to be ultra biological determinists and think genes and evolutionary psychology are responsible for nearly all behaviors in society.

Because that is the truth. Regardless of what TRP says or how TRP uses it.

Why do you think it is not the truth? Do you think the pleasure we feel when eating sugar is acquired by education? No.

What you get confronted to is a bias from your brain. Everytime you see something that looks loaded in sugar you are hungry, you feel sugar in your mouth, you feel the pleasure of eating it. That's an educated relation that your brain made.

The same way, shitloads of our attraction and behaviours are educated relations that our brain made, but they all originate from what our body dictates is good. Unless you are heavily mutated, you'll be deterministic in some ways. And since we all share a common education, which is even more reinforced by todays media, the associations are more often than not deterministic.

Usually, when TRP starts talking about evolutionary psychology, they do not often hit on the associations, more often than not they talk about how our body is conditioned and what it dictates to be pleasurable or not.

N0blesse0blige · 2017-07-10T09:35:37+00:00

TL;DR It is part of a larger anti-thetical overreaction to the current biological disconnect in much of social science.

Evolution is also undisputably foundational for understanding human psychology, whereas non-biological approaches to psychology and sociology lack any sound base scientific foundation whatsover. Somehow some social scientists think evolution is optional for understanding human behavior, as if they can choose their own account of human origin and still do actual science.

Much of current social science, especially feminist approaches, is in fact founded on Marxist critical theory, where science becomes a tool for promoting the interests and perspectives of the pre-defined "oppressed". Biology, for example genetics, may be disregarded altogether simply because feminists think it does not promote female agency. The rest of science does not work like that. Chemists do not "disregard" noble gasses because they are anti-social and do not bond with other atoms. Physicists do not "disregard" gravity because it gives women saggy boobs as they age.

Feminist criticism of science starts out promising, though, by pointing out male normative bias in science as a historically male endeavor. But then it proceeds, not to correct that bias, but to actively impose and promote its own normative bias – systematically, whereas most of the white men historically doing science actually tried to be descriptive despite their normative biases. Marxist critical theory is nothing more than political weaponization of science in favor of Marxist perspectives. It is the elephant that walked in the back door of the house of science.

Evolutionary psychology then emerges as a counter-movement, which for all its shortcomings, is at least scientific and says something substantial about human nature, evolved human psychological dispositions. And it calls out the elephant, commendable in itself.

EDIT: Just to clarify, evolutionary psychology does not (at least directly) promote biological determinism. It is more sophisticated than making simple mistakes like that. Criticism is misguided in that sense. RP may to a larger extent commit to biological determinism as it is indeed hyperbolic and does a highly popularized interpretation of sociobiology and evolutionary psychology.

alreadyredschool · 2017-07-10T09:01:16+00:00

They aren't. Evo psych is just one of many possibilities.

TRP often uses inductive reasoning - it starts with an observation - the hamster, AF/BB, Hypergamy... Now it's time to come up with ways to use that to your advantage next up reasons and possible explanations for why it's that way. The whole theory about why women exhibit that stuff is very shaky without prove and several other explanations - everything has a evo psych explanation (they evolved for that i-e. hypergamy) a market explanation (Basic economic theory says that this makes perfect sense i.e. women are pursed much more it's obvious that the buyer with many offers takes the best), psychological explanation (we simply like attractive people more...) etc etc. None of that is proven, all you know is the observation and at least 1 way to deal with it that is beneficial (there could be better solutions we haven't discovered yet). Making the observation is ok, so is finding stuff that works and doesn't work those are empirical but the inductive reasoning behind the why is pure speculation and is very possibly wrong in all cases.

Turning it around and making a prescriptive statement out of one possible explanation is stupid as fuck, it has not been made for that so it won't work there. The rps who do that are misusing it and so they are wrong.

DarkLord0chinChin · 2017-07-10T12:32:05+00:00

Biology > Culture > Ideology

Transmigratory · 2017-07-10T09:20:33+00:00

They... also believe in the societal influence hence the notion of men tend to be pussified by a feminine society.

"Evidence" for this debate from bloops... I'll stop there. haha

mustang_mike · 2017-07-10T09:21:29+00:00

Why do RPillers tend to be ultra biological determinists and think genes and evolutionary psychology are responsible for nearly all behaviors in society

Are you taking the opposite stance? Clinical Psychologist have pretty much settled on the whole nature/nurture thing (meaning it's a mixture of both) and every day science is showing us ways in which nature wins (genetics).

Where does it stop? Do you also have biological determinist views on other aspects of society too, like "poor people are just born with low IQ" etc.?

IQ and success have a strong correlation, as many studies have shown. That doesn't mean that someone born into a poor household can't go on to do great things (thank you gene mutation!) but there's something to it. Biology plays a role in everything we do, though that's not to say it's an excuse or in any way prescriptive on an individual level, but to ignore the trends is a fool's errand.

How much do you consider yourself a biological determinist? Is there hard evidence for biological determinist views?

Like... in the middle? Biology plays a huge role in who we are and what we can become. It's not the only factor, but it's a hell of a factor. I'm of two minds on this, because some shit will come easier to certain people, but at the same time I don't think that gives people that struggle a pass. If anything it makes it that much more admirable when they succeed, because at the end of the day life isn't fair and you can't do anything about the cards genetics dealt you, you can only decide how to play them.

[deleted] · 2017-07-10T14:08:20+00:00

Americans in particular just recently started to shift from a largely evangelical culture to a secular one. However, we have not mastered that true nihilism you see in Protestant and Eastern Orthodox Europe. Our culture and modal personality is still ill suited for secularism. Both the left and the alt right are largely secular now, but they still fill that vacuum with a religion of some kind.

For the red pill/alt right this is often biological determinism that often fits with western religious values. "We are all sinners (women in particular) and the old status quo was the only thing since the beginning of time that ever kept us from oblivion". Some of the seasoned red pillers blame this on the influx of East Asians and Indians. That has certainly had a palpable effect. But the disillusioned working class male who had a religious upbringing and a one-note education, but has turned "secular" with that in mind has imparted quite a bit as well. Reddit is not the only place this change happened. It started happening in the tucked away blogosphere about 3-4 years ago.

InformalCriticism · 2017-07-10T14:17:42+00:00

when there is no evidence

The list of wars in which women have not been raped would be relatively short compared to the ones in which they were.

This critique of intuitive argument is tantamount to "there's no evidence that the Sun has been here before we knew how to write it in a way Feminists can accept, so we can't be sure it ever was".

And poor people aren't always born with low IQ, but their parents are almost always low IQ. Please tell me that fact resonates with you.

biological determinist?

The universe is deterministic, to include your imperative that nurture is more influential than nature. Well, news for you, nurture is deterministic, as well.

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SexyMcSexington · 2017-07-10T08:53:36+00:00

That's blackpill. If it was redpill then what would be the point of self-improvement?

prest0change0 · 2017-07-10T08:55:46+00:00

I can't say I speak for all RPers. I'm not sure I actually even count as one. Without any regard to what I may be identified as, I think you've misunderstood exactly what determinism really means. It's far more broad a thing than just bigoted opinions.

sweet_samsara · 2017-07-10T09:46:45+00:00

I see evolutionary psychology referenced all over the place in RP. As far as "biological determinism",it just sounds like you're accidentally conflating evolutionary psychology with biological determinism.

In fact, the only actual RP example you provided "women invite refugees because reproductive strategy is to get raped by foreigners" isn't biological determinism it's evolutionary psychology. Not that I agree with that assertion -- I don't think that many women actually want to be raped by Arabic men though I wouldn't be surprised if a few did given that rape fantasies are fairly common among women.

However, you mentioned "the patriarchy" later on, I'd say that might have been biologically deterministic at least to a large extent by women having the burden of childbirth. In my opinion, this is a benevolent application of biological determinism, otherwise we'd have to find reasons why men have historically contributed so much to scientific and social progress while women historically haven't, in comparison.

bala-key · 2017-07-10T10:03:44+00:00

The actual truth about the role biology plays when it comes to sexual behavior and life success is more deterministic than the mainstream politically correct Western narrative, which is basically the "blank slate".

It's mostly taboo to talk frankly about gender differences or genetic differences. You can end your scientific career if you do so.

I highly recommend Steven Pinker's book: The Blank Slate on this topic.

Entropy-7 · 2017-07-10T10:05:53+00:00

There are deviations from the mean but generally it just makes sense.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2017-07-10T14:35:05+00:00

What else is there but biology, I'm not religious.

edit: biological "determinism" is a meaningless leftoid/blankslatist shaming word, no one believes pure "biological determinism"

IamTheWalkingMenu · 2017-07-10T15:03:45+00:00

you somehow trying to say that genetics are NOT responsible for things including HLA factors, pheromones, someone "just smelling right"?

come on Ipheginia! (sp?)

rreliable · 2017-07-10T15:04:12+00:00

Because free will is a wholly religious concept that has never been demonstrated scientifically.

Whatever the behavior in question is, it's never a good assumption to say that genetics played no significant role.

Centurion53 · 2017-07-10T15:50:50+00:00

They tend to think in such a way because the time period isnt nearly enough for humans to retrain their biological and evolutionary instincts. I am a hardcore biological determinist.

http://www.zo.utexas.edu/courses/THOC/HumanInstincts.html

"People have an instinctive fear of snakes. We are afraid of snakes because humans evolved alongside these creatures, many of which are dangerous. This fear saved the lives of our ancestors and became hard-wired innate behavior, also known as instinct. Similarly we possess many other instincts that were adaptive during most of human history."

We still fear snakes out of instinct,we have not stopped fearing them, even though we might not know if they are venomous or not.

[deleted] · 2017-07-10T16:21:53+00:00

Because red pill is literal to a fault. And social skills?

Not so much.

They understand biology, they do not understand "reading a room" or intuition as it applies to talking to people.

Love8Death · 2017-07-10T16:30:56+00:00

It's the starting point. Everyone has their nature and you can't just pretend it's not there.

This is not your best post.

IIHotelYorba · 2017-07-10T18:45:06+00:00

It's a fact that many things about humanity simply haven't been studied because it's not polically correct to do so. So I'm never surprised when people speculate a biological reason for this or that. What are they supposed to think?

darksoldierk · 2017-07-11T00:08:10+00:00

Well, I mean, people in general tend to be biological deterministic when it benefits them, RP's are at least consistent.

Women, for example, will scream murder that they are weaker than men and can't do anything if a man decides to attack them when discussing sexual assault, but then, 5 minutes later, they'll open their mouths about how women and men in the military are equally capable.

daveofmars · 2017-07-11T02:31:50+00:00

It's a reaction to you all being such ultra social constructivists. I mean, if libs keep trying to pass off every single difference as being 100% controlled by society (or we don't talk about those we know aren't) then your opponent has no choice but to go full biological determinism on ya.

If you all would agree on the fact that biological differences exist then we could have a greater discussion on what degree that applies, but you don't want to go that far 'cause you think it's racist/sexist.

[deleted] · 2017-07-11T07:59:37+00:00

Biological determinism is observably hard to argue against.

women invite the refugees because their reproductive strategy is to get raped by foreigners

Women invite refugees because they're biologically driven to think collectively and weigh their ideas against the herd to figure out which ideas are the best to have. Government/Corporate interest in globalism both require migration and multiculturalism, so the ideas pushed by media will encourage ideas that link up with that and demonize ideas that don't.

Put two and two together.

"poor people are just born with low IQ"

Poor people aren't only low IQ. Rather, western poor people are born with incentives to remain poor and no significant punishments for being poor. These incentives tell their biology that they're in a decent enough position in life and have no reason to strive beyond. The top tier of these poor men are the exceptions who determine that their position is not comfortable and either rise through criminal activity or rise legally through self education.

Taking away the incentives that mingle with their biology would result in more of them rising out.

mistresswhat · 2017-07-11T20:36:06+00:00

Because they don't understand how evo psych works.

Early humans survived by banding together into social groups, and social groups don't work unless the people in them care about the other people in them as well as their own standing within the group. This is why we have such an incredibly wide variety of different cultures -- people will pretty much mold themselves to whatever culture they grow up in, and will do their best to adapt to whatever culture they end up in.

If you're leaning heavily on evo psych to explain modern dating relationships, your conclusions are probably going to say a lot about you and very little about the actual truth.

adrixshadow · 2017-07-13T09:11:31+00:00

TRP is a rational strategy meant to defeat an instinctual strategy. This is what is kept begin repeated with AWALT.

An instinctual strategy cannot come from anything but biology.

women invite the refugees because their reproductive strategy is to get raped by foreigners

Women invite refugees because they wishy washy emotional creatures that cannot think for two seconds about the consequences.

IamTheWalkingMenu · 2017-07-10T12:47:54+00:00

Is that what it's called??? Biological Determinism ?? It is annoying sometimes how there is an insistence that we can't rise above our biology and suppress it with our intellect. My biology told me to stay snuggled in bed this morning but my intellect told me to get up and get on the treadmill. So here I am. On the treadmill.

Princeso_Bubblegum · 2017-07-10T12:52:35+00:00

they are rather shitty determinists then, because most of them still fall into the liberal nonsense that one can make spontaneous free choices

ZombieWifeFoCo · 2017-07-11T04:20:59+00:00

It's a shit-ass lazy excuse.

We also put men and women in space, create smart phone technology and VR, and create music and compositions that make humans weep.

All without blaming or attributing it to "biology."

For me, it boils down to this:

If you consider yourself just an animal who is incapable of overcoming the basest of urges (including murder, rape, violence, pissing in public and whatnot), then consider yourself an animal. But don't pretend to fan yourself and clutch your pearls when people call you out on your lack of wits.

or

If you believe you are a thinking being, capable of emotions, decisions, and critical thinking, then you can't use the "But, it's all just BiOlOgY, laaaaadies," excuse.

Or....

Maybe you are a thinking human and you just don't WANT to be monogamous (as an example of "biological thinking"). Fine. Just own up to that bullshit and don't dress it up as biology.

Biology is great for some things, but if you can, do and want to wipe your own ass instead of shitting all over town like police horses and stray dogs, then maybe you're a bit higher on the mental food change than ye average animal.

Title	Why do RPillers tend to be ultra biological determinists?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	12
Comments	152
Date	July 10, 2017 8:42 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/6md88u/why_do_rpillers_tend_to_be_ultra_biological/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-do-rpillers-tend-to-be-ultra-biological.267077 https://theredarchive.com/post/267077

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