What is behind the recent push to rebrand Marilyn Monroe as plus sized?

shoup88 · 2016-10-27T17:57:52+00:00

It's not about tearing Marilyn down it's about trying to drag themselves up to her level. Saying Marilyn is hot, and plus-sized, means saying plus-sized can be hot.

A lot of it is plain ignorance. Monroe was a size 12 in her time, and a lot of people don't realize that dress sizes have changed a lot since then. Because technically Monroe wore a size that now would be called plus-sized, she became a rallying cry for people. It's like canon now, even though it's untrue.

She also is a bit of a bigger actress when you compare her to her contemporaries - specifically Audrey Hepburn. Hepburn is probably closest to Monroe in terms of fame and iconography, and she's a tiny little thing.

Archwinger · 2016-10-27T18:18:32+00:00

Trying to convince you that fat people can be pretty distracts you from the fact that fat people get winded climbing a flight of stairs, which is about twenty times more unattractive than the cellulite itself.

[deleted] · 2016-10-28T23:51:52+00:00

[permanently deleted]

mashakos · 2016-10-27T17:44:47+00:00

My only comment is that the idea that Marilyn Monroe was chunky is not at all recent. I remember hearing it when I was in high school, way back in the late 1980s. Maybe it has more traction today because of the intertubes and tumblr et al. But this one has been around for a good long while.

sunkindonut149 · 2016-10-27T18:20:43+00:00

Marilyn Monroe had a higher BMI than typical runway models and would be more equivalent, in body type, to Beyonce today.

There is a lot of black-and-white thinking in today's society, which is driven by the 24 hour news cycle. This is an example of black and white thinking.

Imo, it's not hamstering or feminism, it's an either-or mentality.

rulenumber303 · 2016-10-27T18:42:50+00:00

There's no set definition but plus sized models tend to start at 12.

In modeling, plus size starts well below an American size 12. Which is different to where it starts in the clothes ranges themselves. And most plus size models aren't actually useful for modeling plus size clothes until they are a size 10 or 12. Yeah complicated I know.

A model is plus size if she's too large to just walk into a runway show and fit the size of most clothes provided as standard to runway shows. If a model is a size eight or ten and gets sent to a runway show without warning the people running the show are going to be on the line to the agency asking why they got sent a plus size model. However just because she's a plus size model doesn't mean she's large enough to model for plus size ranges, who mostly use either a model who is the lowest size in their range or a model who is sort of about a third the way up the range of sizes they carry.

In terms of modern modelling terminology Marilyn Monroe would not have been plus size at her smallest but would have been plus size at her largest.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2016-10-27T22:59:32+00:00

She may have had a 22 inch waist but I wouldn't be surprised if she was judged by the internet today (Without knowing who she is) there would be several people that will call her fat because

A) She does not have a thigh gap B) She is not tall enough to look lean on camera even if she is thin.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/a6/b8/5d/a6b85df15da9bc2265bc68aa3106cf3c.jpg

Most people who think thin in our technology filled era that consistently fill our heads up with images of skinny women think of this

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5541/11206155103_89d7401800_b.jpg

Fat women are consistently being told they are fat on the internet unless they look like the above picture. Marilyn is a example of someone is who is realistic.

MARILYN WOULD NOT MAKE IT AS A MODEL TODAY!

alreadyredschool · 2016-10-27T17:37:52+00:00

Recent?

If you check r/rateme or something like that all the fat girls will hear that they look like monroe who was so fat... maybe she was fatter later and they use those measurements but think about her thin pictures.

Maybe it's just some feel good bullshit, people don't want to tell women that they should be thin if they want to be hot, if they actually buy it they will defend this believe.

fiat_lux_ · 2016-10-27T17:47:26+00:00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanity_sizing

It's vanity.

I have a hard time finding it now, because nist.gov (National Institute of Standards and Technology) has terrible UI and recently changed, but they had a history article about this matter. Some companies worked with the gov't to get standards pushed/changed over time. It played to women's vanity. They liked seeing smaller numbers on their clothes.

Some women with time on their hands found bad pics of Marilyn Munroe and paraded them as though she was obese. Marilyn Munroe was far from fat.

This has been going on for decades. It's hardly recent.

A_Rex · 2016-10-27T17:43:55+00:00

Totally agree. this is what modern feminism tries to do - tear down the surroundings instead of having agency and working hard to rise above.

Want Marilyn's body? Don't work for it. Instead blame some strawmen (Patriarchy, culture) for why you're fat. Then try to get everyone else to validate you as a fat person by either tearing down a sex symbol like Marilyn (she was a fat skank), or bring her down to your level as a comparison (see, she was fat and loved - I'm entitled to this too!)

Leeloooooooooooooooo · 2016-10-28T03:15:26+00:00

This has been going on for years.

I remember hearing it back in the 90s when "Heroin chic" models like Kate Moss were all the rage.

It will always be about making fat chicks feel like they are all good.

cateml · 2016-10-28T08:27:58+00:00

This 'meme' started in the 90s, back when heroin chic was all the rage, not in the modern day when the Kardashian ass is in. Which is why it seems weird to the kids of today. The pictures of her on the beach DO seem jarring compared to fashion models and 'the look' of the 90s, which is what this originally came out of.

Also equating Marilyn Monroe with the HAES movement and 'embrace natural curves' is funny, and not because she was actually smaller than a lot of people make her out to be.

Its because she was a drug addict who quite possibly had an eating disorder. She sure as shit wasn't healthy at any size, and whatever her size it was likely influenced by the fact that she was a 'this body is property of Hollywood' type strung out on barbiturates 90% of the time.

For all the body positivity movement and criticisms of it both frame themselves in health concerns, once you start talking about Marilyn fucking Monroe you've definitely fallen out of the 'health issue' part of the debate and into the pure aesthetic side, because she made both the super calorie restricted model and the overweight body positivity campaigner look like paragons of health.
Which is fitting, considering that the amount of what is crouched as epidemiological concerns about obesity levels in the population is actually between the lines 'ew, fatties acting like they're people too'.

DarkLord0chinChin · 2016-10-28T10:14:41+00:00

What is behind the recent push to rebrand Marilyn Monroe as plus sized?

Evil feminist agenda

screenmagnet · 2016-10-28T16:40:53+00:00

It's a misguided attempt at revisionist history for the purpose of identifying plus size role models for young women.

What we should be doing is taking the focus off of image and placing it on health and fitness. Instead, we are telling young women it's okay to be fat, because men will still desire them.

WTF?

philomexa · 2016-10-27T19:48:41+00:00

Most people have covered the dress size issue, but there is also that photo of her from when she pregnant, taken at a terrible angle, that emphasized her thicker waist/pregnancy bloat. I've seen a lot of fatty fats parade that photo around as proof that she was a 'real plus size womyn'.

Hellkyte · 2016-10-27T22:51:13+00:00

Wtf does this have to do with RP/BP?

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[deleted] · 2016-10-28T00:31:08+00:00

Well, what's happening is that the big booty is more in fashion now. Girls are jealous of women who look like this, who would be considered curvy or thick

But people want women like this to be considered curvy and thick.

despisedlove2 · 2016-10-28T02:32:05+00:00

Feminism is also a movement of ugly women designed to make normal pretty women feel shitty about themselves and men they prefer.

The reason why this promotion of ugliness has started is that feminist leadership is now no longer purely ugly man hating lesbians. A bunch of ugly straight women have joined them. They can't attract men, so they want to shame the men into being with them.

"Marilyn Monroe is like me. Whee. Like me. Drool over my bulging cellulite already, you very good looking oppressor. And you there, good looking woman, looking good is objectification. Oppression. Oppression."

Feminism is a mental disease.

[deleted] · 2016-10-28T13:26:58+00:00

They are trying to alter history to fit their narrative.

Men used to worship fat women, but the evul mediuh has made it so only anorexic twigs can get male attention.

They believe if they keep saying it, someone will start believing that Marilyn Monroe had a giant fupa just like them.

Entropy-7 · 2016-10-29T11:22:43+00:00

MM was pretty but overplayed.

These days I like BMI 19 girls but back in the day I had a good romp with a chuncky girl who took it six ways to Sunday.

17b29a · 2016-10-27T17:53:12+00:00

Reality is behind it. :/ You should try doing some research...

winterrider · 2016-10-27T18:27:15+00:00

It is ridiculous. She was not a stick but she certainly wasn't obese.

wombatinaburrow · 2016-10-27T22:11:35+00:00

Compared to actress and model standards; she is. Stand her beside Kate Moss or Jodie Kidd.

Compared to Ms Average; she isn't. But she's much more achievable and relatable than Kate Moss or Jodie Kidd.

Title	What is behind the recent push to rebrand Marilyn Monroe as plus sized?
Author	5th_Law_of_Robotics
Upvotes	19
Comments	92
Date	October 27, 2016 5:10 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/59p60s/what_is_behind_the_recent_push_to_rebrand_marilyn/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-is-behind-the-recent-push-to-rebrand-marilyn.272130 https://theredarchive.com/post/272130