CMV: There is a giant gap between what women think they are attracted to or say they are, and what actually happens.

OfSpock · 2016-03-13T10:57:39+00:00

There was that study that showed women had more orgasms with dominant men, but only if the dominance was determined by women, not men. Which indicates that women know exactly what they mean, and men who don't.

sleeping_willow_ · 2016-03-13T08:36:56+00:00

There are a couple things going on here.

You are probably not always looking at the same women. Talk to the women who say muscles are gross. Are they currently with a muscular guy? If they are, just ask, "What about your boyfriend?"
Women will never be able to actualize their preferences completely. A woman may actually want a certain type of man, but this type of man is not available to her for whatever reason.
A woman will say she is open to dating short guys if she can remember a short guy that she was attracted to or dated in the past. This doesn't mean that she is attracted to any of the short guys currently in her social circle.
Women aren't usually going to say things that they think either will hurt your feelings or make them look bad.
You think that fratbro is a douche, but the woman obviously doesn't. She has a different definition of douche than you.

To challenge your view, if you look at large scale surveys of female preferences, they mostly match with their behavior. For instance, women report that they prefer a man a few years older on surveys, and this is who they actually date. They prioritize status and career prospects, and this is also who they actually date.

[deleted] · 2016-03-13T18:00:40+00:00

Women know what they're attracted to, they just rarely talk about it in terms of exactly what's sexually attractive. It's usually "I like these qualities in a man I find sexually attractive (but will take a man I find sexually attractive without them)". Here's an easy translation:

"I'm open to dating short guys" = "I'd prefer a tall guy but I'm open to dating a short guy with a nice face and high status."
"I only like gentlemen" = "I prefer attractive gentleman to attractive douchebags, but I'll take an attractive douchebag over an unattractive gentleman if that's all I can find."
"Muscles are gross" = "When someone mentions muscular men I immediately think of the roided up body builders, who I think look unnatural and gross. Men who are buff and fit without the roid rage look are hot."

To put it in male terms, a lot of men want a girl that shares their favorite hobby. But they'll take a hot girl who doesn't over an ugly girl who does. Men just talk about the physical characteristics they prefer more often than women do, whereas women more often say things like "I'm open to dating short guys" instead of "I prefer tall guys". A guy who prefers big boobs may be open to dating girls with small boobs, but he'll vocalize the former instead of the latter.

sittinginabaralone · 2016-03-13T17:11:53+00:00

I've heard women call someone a douche, then sleep with them. I've heard women say "I wouldn't date a douche" then date someone I thought was a douche. But I've never heard a woman say both without changing their original stance.

There's also the overarching issue of trying to compartmentalize traits and describe what's attractive on paper. You can't do it. Sometimes it only takes one person to make you believe you're super into tall, fit girls when you might only find a handful attractive. I find such an array of people attractive that I can't even say what I prefer or what is attractive to me and have trouble believing anything anyone says about preference other than obvious things like their sex.

[deleted] · 2016-03-13T17:15:47+00:00

Aside from different people wanting different things. 1. I've dated a guy slightly shorter than me before, it's not a dealbreaker, but all other things being equal I prefer men who are taller than me (5'5). There's a difference between a dealbreaker (not being open to something) and not preferring something. 2. Either different people, looks outweighing personality, different perception, or he's nice to her and that's what she means. 3. Different strokes.....and also they might be thinking more of bulky 'roid muscle.

ProtoPill · 2016-03-13T18:43:57+00:00

Girls saying they were "open to dating short guys", yet they're boyfriends or guys they danced with at parties were tall.

An in-person survey shows the savagery:

To see if the women would go for short guys who were successful, ABCNEWS’ Lynn Sherr created extraordinary résumés for the shorter men. She told the women that the shorter men included a doctor, a best-selling author, a champion skier, a venture capitalist who’d made millions by the age of 25.

Nothing worked. The women always chose the tall men. Sherr asked whether there’d be anything she could say that would make the shortest of the men, who was 5 feet, irresistible. One of the women replied, “Maybe the only thing you could say is that the other four are murderers.” Another backed her up, saying that had the taller men had a criminal record she might have been swayed to choose a shorter man. Another said she’d have considered the shorter men, if the taller men had been described as “child molesters.”

The desire for tall men begins very young, apparently. ABCNEWS gave elementary school students a test, asking them to match a small, medium or large figure of a man with a series of words. The kids overwhelmingly linked the tall figure to the words strong, handsome and smart. The [kids] linked the short figure to the words sad, scared and weak. More than half of the kids also chose to link the short figure to the words, dumb, yucky and no friends.

Evolution at its best.

ProbablyBelievesIt · 2016-03-13T09:20:09+00:00

Doesn't this seem more likely?

Are the girls who say muscles are gross the ones who even go to gyms? Because I've met way more at the library, art conventions, online, etc.

Women who are open to dating short men aren't saying they exclusively date short men, and the only women I've ever met who had a fetish for the small were bi tomboys, with a preference for the very feminine.

Girls saying they only like gentlemen, yet hookup with the douche fratbro who only wears tank tops.

How many women, exactly?
Tank tops aren't a personality.
A lot of guys are called assholes by the guys who creep on their girlfriends.
Getting burned is a reliable way for men and women both to mature a little more.
As the redpill constantly strives to prove, getting fucked in a hook-up often just means you're a fuck toy, it doesn't mean someone likes you.

MorpheusGodOfDreams · 2016-03-13T16:26:14+00:00

I disagree. Women know EXACTLY what they are attracted to because they feel that tingle when in the presence of a man they consider attractive.

This image is also consistent across culture and ethnicity: above 6 ft tall, well dressed, physically fit at a minimum, has wealth, leader of men, pre-selected by women, protector of loved ones, unafraid to show emotion, and has a dominant ambitious personality. In other words, everything that signals high testosterone.

Women lie to others and to themselves in order to virtue signal, aka be politically correct. Women say that they like "nice or smart" men, but it really means "ruthless to everyone else and nice to me." All of this is hard-wired attraction to get the best genes for offspring and allow for the best chance of that kid's survival and success in life.

The majority of the issue comes up when men expect honesty and truth over comforting lies from women. This will never happen unless it is an absolute last resort. Women are trained from birth to give comforting lies because that is how you deal with young children. They practice on each other in an environment of toxic femininity in their early years until they perfect it by the time they finish high school. Most women enjoy the lies when speaking to one another because it allows them to "save face" rather than speak objective truth, something common among Arab and Asian cultures.

So the issue is that men no longer know that a woman's words are essentially meaningless exercises in virtue signaling. She will always say what she thinks is socially acceptable in order to not risk her standing in the tribe, and if she does not know the correct herd behavior then she will inquire as to what she should say. When any woman dares to act or talk differently from the prescribed actions, she is ridiculed, shamed, and ostracized by the group.

We have been trained by Marxist bullshit ideology to see women as "equal," which is a mathematical concept that means the same. So we expect masculine honesty and loyalty to tell the truth, as we would from our male friends. But women don't think or act like this, they instead tell comforting lies. Thus TRP's important teaching: watch what she does, not what she says.

[deleted] · 2016-03-13T16:34:11+00:00

Naw...

This is just pointing out the "it" factor.

Haven't you ever met that one girl/guy that, by all reasonable definitions, shouldn't be attractive to you, but it's there is just something about them that just makes you gaga?

If I were to list out on paper the traits I like, and compared with these girls that have the "it" factor, few characteristics would match.

Plus, any time a woman starts listing off personality traits, you can safely assume that "he's hot" is at the top of that list, even though they never say it.

ThorLives · 2016-03-13T22:37:27+00:00

Just a quick comment. Your post reminded me of this book:

Robert Kurzban shows us that the key to understanding our behavioral inconsistencies lies in understanding the mind's design. The human mind consists of many specialized units designed by the process of evolution by natural selection. While these modules sometimes work together seamlessly, they don't always, resulting in impossibly contradictory beliefs, vacillations between patience and impulsiveness, violations of our supposed moral principles, and overinflated views of ourselves.

This modular, evolutionary psychological view of the mind undermines deeply held intuitions about ourselves, as well as a range of scientific theories that require a "self" with consistent beliefs and preferences. Modularity suggests that there is no "I." Instead, each of us is a contentious "we"--a collection of discrete but interacting systems whose constant conflicts shape our interactions with one another and our experience of the world.

In clear language, full of wit and rich in examples, Kurzban explains the roots and implications of our inconsistent minds, and why it is perfectly natural to believe that everyone else is a hypocrite.

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Everyone-Else-Hypocrite-Evolution/dp/0691154392

oilpainter777 · 2016-03-13T11:21:17+00:00

If a woman is not really sure about what she really wants in a man, she is ONE woman. She is not all women.

I, for example, am a straight sapiosexual. I like men and I tend to value intelligence over looks. I don't have any reason to lie about this. I am not out there trying to find super hot guys with six packs. They are not the type of men I look for, and many women think just like I do. When I say I prefer intelligent, sweet, romantic gentlemen, I really mean it.

connor1003 · 2016-03-13T14:09:45+00:00

Dual mating strategy in women. They're open to dating short guys because short guys may still be able to fulfill their provisioning and comfort needs (BB). What these women don't realize is that they seek one set of traits for dating purposes and another set for sex purposes, and they end up conflating the two desires in themselves.

energyvolley · 2016-03-13T11:37:47+00:00

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-sybarite- · 2016-03-13T20:59:07+00:00

Is it that prominent for women to deny attraction to attractive features in men? Because I think that it is obvious that good looking guys have vastly better options than their less attractive competition. Tall, muscular...

Women don't like guys that are unnaturally muscular and that's why some may say that muscles are gross. But IRL too muscular guys are the exception. Would you rather date a sprinter or a marathon runner? I choose the sprinter.

The "be a jerk" advice I cant understand: it's not that being a jerk is attractive, it's that if you are attractive people are more likely to tolerate your bullshit. A pleasant personality is what most women want.

jkonrad · 2016-03-13T23:21:36+00:00

To the degree that they are self-aware they know exactly what they are attracted to. They might not tell you, but that's different issue.

Plus, remember the whole gatekeeper dynamic. What they most want is commitment, so they will emphasize those qualities when talking (and thinking) about what they like.

YaBoiTibzz · 2016-03-14T04:51:05+00:00

"Open to dating short guys" is almost always a lie. Couples where the female is taller are a hilariously small statistical anomaly. The bald-faced denial of reality people exhibit towards this, guys and girls both, is absolutely incredible to me. This is one area where the numbers actually are crystal-clear.

I haven't even met any girls under 30 that ever actually said they preferred a "gentlemen." I've observed the opposite if anything. I've talked to multiple girls who quite openly admitted that they don't want to date a guy who is "too nice."

It's well documented in social sciences that people will give answers deemed to be socially acceptable to questions about sensitive subjects. This is known as "social desirability bias" and can be seen in the fact that, for example, if you directly ask someone on a survey "Are you a racist?" you're going to get "No" at pretty much a 100% rate.

Anyone who thinks women are incapable of engaging in this when asked about dating preferences is simply naive. Personally I think it's not giving women enough credit to say they literally "don't know what they're attracted to." I think they do know, but they also know what they need to say in order to avoid coming off as shallow.

VermiciousKnidzz · 2016-03-14T23:41:46+00:00

i've heard countless women say things like "i love distinct jawlines" or "facial hair is sexy." on the other end i've also heard men describe less specific preferences like "i like smart women." this "gap" isn't really a gap as much as it is that people are specific sometimes and nonspecific other times, and it isnt reliant on gender.

about those scenarios, i fail to see any disconnect. its perfectly reasonable to go out/hookup with people that have characteristics you might generally not like, especially if its casual. also, women are individuals, preferences change from person to person...

also, determining a complete stranger to be a "douche fratbro" from afar is extremely judgmental and presumptuous. its not healthy to see someone wearing a tank top and immediately think "i know everything about that person, i know he's not a gentleman, he's a douche bag, is just looking to hook up, etc etc."

lauren_collins · 2016-03-16T00:48:45+00:00

who says muscles are gross?

DerEwigeKatzendame · 2016-03-17T08:30:33+00:00

You see, this thing called 'desperation' happens, and if you're lucky, you're around at just the right time that you can fuck a desperate woman, because she is desperate, and wants to fuck something. Doesn't so much matter what she fucks, barring less qualifiers as the woman becomes more desperate.

Women have sexual urges, too. Some more than others, but everyone gets desperate after a week/month/year/decade. Depends on the person.

Do you mean to tell me you've never ridden a 'moped'? (fun to ride, but you wouldn't want your friends to know about it; commonly, a butterface or bbw)

dopesk1 · Sun Mar 13 13:28:58 2016 UTC

Women are very good at not knowing their own mind

Instinct is consulted first then emotions then rational logic, then a decision is made

Wo-person · 2016-03-14T05:27:55+00:00

And men do the same thing. My closest male friend says he loves big boobs, and yet his wife is an A cup. A man will say he likes smart girls and only hooks up with idiots. Another man will say that blondes are the hottest and dates a brunette. When it comes to what humans find attractive, it's hard to put on paper. You can say generic crap but you won't know unless you experience it. And seeing as there is a plethora of attractive traits out there, it's no surprise that people change their mind.

Girls saying they were "open to dating short guys", yet they're boyfriends or guys they danced with at parties were tall.

Maybe it's because short guys don't do much to stand out.

Girls saying they only like gentlemen, yet hookup with the douche fratbro who only wears tank tops.

Your definition of douche and her definition of douche might be 2 different things.

Girls saying that muscles are gross, and they prefer skinny guys, but mostly end up talking to the buff, muscular dudes at the gym.

If I'm at the gym I'm going to talk to the person who looks like they know what theyre doing, not the hipster cardio bunny.

Title	CMV: There is a giant gap between what women think they are attracted to or say they are, and what actually happens.
Author	oilpainter777
Upvotes	18
Comments	85
Date	March 13, 2016 8:04 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/4a7lv6/cmv_there_is_a_giant_gap_between_what_women_think/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-there-is-a-giant-gap-between-what-women-think.275721 https://theredarchive.com/post/275721

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