Does consent require an enthusiastic "YES!" from both parties involved?

MuslimGoku · 2015-10-23T07:13:15+00:00

No, anyone who's ever had sex knows it's not like that. Sometimes just an exchange of looks can provide consent.

scrantonic1ty · 2015-10-23T07:52:59+00:00

Of course not, the whole idea is absurd, and breeds fear and mistrust. There was a fantastic post on /r/videos recently on this very issue, that from both sides it implies that obviously sexual advances from the woman are to be treated with suspicion and fear until proven otherwise. The woman's default position is that of sexual passivity, and any deviation from this is unnatural and requires scrutiny. It's essentially a reinforcement of traditional gender roles that third-wave feminism claims to despise.

am_thro_way · 2015-10-23T13:55:44+00:00

No, you don't need to be enthusiastic about sex to consent. There's a number of reasons why one might consent to sex despite not being super horny or attracted to the person they're having sex with. And consent does not have to be verbally expressed either IMO.

That said I think what people are missing is that this article has nothing to do with rape laws or anything like that, it's about a sex ed program. They're not trying to make bad or non enthusiastic sex illegal, they're trying to teach teens to be better at communicating about sex. So I don't see a huge problem with that.

betterdeadthanbeta · 2015-10-23T06:20:33+00:00

Im hoping a quake will take out california like in Escape from LA.

But anyway, here's my sliding scale of rape:

1) She says no, you beat the shit out of her or put a knife to her throat and stick your dick in anyway. Rape.

2) She says no. You continue foreplay and she says nothing. You stick your dick in anyway. Maybe rape. We'll never be 100% sure. This is why women need to be taught to not go all deer in the headlights.

3) She says no. You continue foreplay and say something saavy like "you want it babe?" She nods timidly and you proceed to smash. No rape.

4) She never says anything. You continue foreplay and stick your dick in. She might feel raped, but factually and logically, she was not. Sorry sis.

5) She's 16 or 17, hot as fuck and ready to go. Not rape. Don't care what society says.

6) She jumps on your dick. Everyone's happy. More women should do this.

I think ultimately my problem with yes means yes, if men are being taught to beg for constant, verbal affirmation of consent, shouldn't women be taught to actually speak up about what they do and don't want and shit? It takes two to tango.

PemBayliss · 2015-10-23T13:17:17+00:00

No, consent doesn't require an enthusiastic "YES!"

The "yes means yes" model law making the rounds suggests that men are responsible not only for their own sexual conduct, but also for women's sexual conduct. It suggests women are not at all responsible for their own sexual conduct. What, a woman can't say "NO!" to sex? (One could hardly think of a more eeeeevil patriarchical law than "yes means yes".)

To say that a woman has to say "YES YES YES" to every single advancement or progression or escalation in a sexual act is to deny women's agency. Haven't we spent the last 40 years hearing all about women's strength and independence? Haven't we heard the last 40 years about how women can make these decisions, including sexual ones, for themselves? They don't need men to make these decisions for them. And they don't need to be protected from men; they can protect themselves.

That's what we have been hearing for decades from the liberal feminist camp. Now, suddenly, we're being told that women need big strong men with guns and the force of law to protect them from guys who want sex with them....

GridReXX · 2015-10-23T14:16:35+00:00

Obviously not.

But without some sort of obvious consent or recognition that both parties whant to fuck like rabbits/porn-stars/star-crossed lovers... you're just entering murky water and murky waters are risky.

She might get raped.

He might get falsely accused of rape.

It's just best to be wildly certain the other person wants your genitals.

ExtraWingyScapula · 2015-10-23T05:46:50+00:00

shyness about sex

Unsure and curious, open to trying

lack of consent?

Does not want

Easy.

anacrassis · 2015-10-23T20:04:04+00:00

I've always asked. It's such an easy thing to do—the cost of prevention is so low, and the potential harm so great, that it's absurd not to ask.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2015-10-23T12:17:46+00:00

No. There are plenty of nonverbal ways to express consent. This is obvious to anyone who isn't mentally deficient/feminist.

/notice the usual crowd never insists the man must give his verbal declaration of consent every thirty seconds or else it's rape.

ArrantPariah · 2015-10-23T15:21:54+00:00

Could it be in other forms?

A signed, notarized document. You can find a mocked-up will on line. I'm surprised that you no contracts for consensual sex are yet available.

Yonderlander · 2015-10-23T17:45:42+00:00

How bloody ridiculous. If neither party gives any indication that they want to stop, then they are consenting. Carrying on, moving the body, making sounds of enjoyment...common sense!

I was 'shy' about sex throughout my teenage years, (read: scared of being thought of as a slut by myself or others) and if a guy had stopped and said "Do you want to have sex?" I'm not sure I could have said yes. Take note, Terpers, this is the actual affect slut-shaming has- nice, non-slutty girls will feel pressure not to sleep with you, even when you both want to sleep with each other. It's a lot more complicated than whether you are attracted to the person, and a lot more to do with whether they can be trusted not to be slut-shamey afterwards. GIRLS LIKE FUCKING TOO.

trp132 · 2015-10-23T17:20:06+00:00

Does sexual consent HAVE to be an enthusiastic yes?

Yes, but non-verbal communication of an enthusiastic yes is possible.

HalfysReddit · 2015-10-23T18:39:35+00:00

Consent is just that - consent. An enthusiastic "yes" speaks to desire, not consent.

One does not have to desire something to consent to it - so where exactly is the line being drawn?

I believe that a lot more could be accomplished when it comes to these discussions if people were more mindful of how the message sent is often not the message received.

ManRAh · 2015-10-23T23:39:01+00:00

Please define "Enthusiastic Yes". Good luck.

TL;DR: No.

mstpp · 2015-10-24T04:20:04+00:00

No, half the time verbally I will say stuff like "no, please stop, why are you raping me?" because once two people know each other you can say anything and the two of you will know exactly what the other one actually means. Although when you are first dating there needs to be a bit more and clearer communication, but I can't really imagine how awkward it would be if the guy had to get a clear and explicit "Yes" from the lady...

dallasdarling · 2015-10-28T15:57:43+00:00

I really don't see why this is such a big deal. If you are too "shy" or nervous or skeptical to talk about sex and consent with your partner, put your pants back on and get to know each other a little better first. You're not ready if you can't talk about it like adults.

I think that many men get upset with these guidelines because they know there are those borderline encounters, those times where they faced "last minute resistance," and they know it's pretty easy to overcome, and they probably have done so in their lives, and if they needed to get an enthusiastic yes, they'd probably be having a lot less sex. I guess I have a hard time feeling bad for them.

vinegarbubblegum · 2015-10-23T12:05:35+00:00

I just have to say I have never worried about a rape accusation and I have had A LOT of THE SEX.

I also have quite literally asked people, "do you want to have sex," and have gotten an affirmative. I am not so weird as to get written and video-taped consent, notarized, and then put on the Internet. That shit is so weird.

What is so hard about communication that has RP doodz constantly scared about getting convicted of rape?

wtknight · 2015-10-23T13:47:41+00:00

Does sexual consent HAVE to be an enthusiastic yes? Could it be in other forms?

No, but the problem becomes when she is drunk and unable to give any of the various non-verbal types of consent that a sober woman typically can. I've never had sex with a drunk woman and never will because of this.

Is there a difference between shyness about sex and lack of consent?

I've definitely been with some shy women. I look for reciprocation, myself. If a woman I were with was not reciprocating, I would immediately stop and ask her if she was okay with doing this. Even the shyest woman should want to kiss you back, touch you back, etc. If it's total starfish, then everything sexual should stop, in my opinion.

Title	Does consent require an enthusiastic "YES!" from both parties involved?
Author	gavinok
Upvotes	5
Comments	149
Date	October 23, 2015 5:06 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3pvc1b/does_consent_require_an_enthusiastic_yes_from/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/does-consent-require-an-enthusiastic-yes-from-both.278894 https://theredarchive.com/post/278894

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