In defense of ephebophilia, or as I call it the way of nature.

SmurfESmurferson · 2015-09-29T00:15:03+00:00

Out of curiosity, how old are you?

[deleted] · 2015-09-29T04:23:39+00:00

You don't have to justify what you are attracted to.

But you have to realize that if you act on your desires, then you will be victimizing a child. As someone who has been victimized yourself, surely you don't wish to do that?

Ephebophilia is NORMAL. Has been throughout 99.9% of human history/prehistory.

But you cannot place yourself in the "normal" category in terms of men marrying teens throughout history. Men married girls that young as spoils of war, in order to ensure progeny was theirs, to secure the marriage, to join families and build wealth etc. But they did intend to stay with that same female throughout her life. (It wasn't generally good for the girls to be married that young, it must be noted)

Now, having sex with a fresh faced, virginal young teen on the other hand... that's another matter entirely.

In your case, if you married a pubescent teen, what would you do when she turned 20 or 25 or 40? You obviously fetishize pubescent girls and would hardly be happy with her when she matured. So how can you compare yourself with marriages from history?

I'm assuming what you want is to have sex (rape) with very young teen girls for your own satisfaction, throughout your life.

Look at any species. Mating begins with the onset of fertility.

Okay, now look at human beings. We're unlike any other species. Evolution has given us difficult, painful, dangerous births. We walk upright and need narrow hips to walk well, but women need wide enough hips to give birth. The hips of a pubescent girl are too narrow. If a 10-15 year old gives birth, it's a child giving birth to a child. She's not mature enough to care for it. In humans, mating CANNOT successfully begin with the start of fertility.

In the middle ages, women often married in their early twenties.

In the tribes of prehistory, due to food restrictions, it's very possible that girls didn't undergo puberty until they were 16-19.

Sorry to introduce SCIENCE into a subject I know most of you are incredibly biased about, but it is what it is.

Sorry that your science isn't good science.

Now, if anyone has a legitimate (facts, not feeling based) reason for the hatred and discrimination we ephebophiles routinely face, I would love to hear it.

I have no hatred for pedophiles or ephebophiles who don't harm children and who don't rape them (have sex with them).

But do any of you pause to consider my richness and depth as a human being? NO. You just label me a pervert, pedo, and other bullying slurs -- which by the way aren't accurate, because I'm not a pedophile -- and move on.

Do you, in turn, consider that a pedophile can't have richness and depth as a human being? You are putting down people who might never ever lay finger on a child, never download or engage in child pornography etc. Why are you slurring them?

But those pedophiles or ephebophiles who do engage in sex (rape) with children, do so with no thought to the child's well being. For example, everyone knows about sex tourism, with older men going to developing countries to abuse child prostitutes.

Personally, I suffer from depression, social anxiety, ADHD, and a few other things, and much of that stems from the bullying and misandry I've been a victim of. That's WHY I have to live the way I do. You all would call it immature, though it is anything but. Frankly, I just don't have seem to have much in common with other "adults", with their rabid materialism, consumerism, conformism, alcoholism, and incessant socializing/partying. I've always had more interest in supposedly juvenile (though I feel they can be very mature) activities such as cartoons, anime, playing with/constructing figurines, playing videogames, and just lounging around wasting a day, the way a child does.

I'm sorry about all that. Your interests are fine. But what you should be doing is, instead of fantasizing about girls far too young for you is to seek help. There ARE grown women with similar hobbies as you, who also have social awkwardness etc.

Like_a_Lime · 2015-09-29T15:03:58+00:00

Mating begins with the onset of fertility. That's really all I should have to point out...we ephebophiles ARE NOT PEDOPHILES... Pedophiles want to have sex with CHILDREN. As an ephebophile I would NEVER so much as consider having sex with a child.

Uh, puberty usually hits girls around ages 9-14 and, well, girls aged 9-14 are children, in elementary school or middle school, usually.

Now, having sex with a fresh faced, virginal young teen on the other hand... that's another matter entirely. Show me the heterosexual man who claims he never imagines himself slaking his lusts on a tight, fresh, nubile, teenage female, and I will show you a liar.

I'm not going to argue that it's wrong to enjoy taboo fantasies. What happens inside the confines of your own mind doesn't hurt anyone, so IMHO, have at it. But to act on sexual fantasies that harm children...that's where the problem lies. Mental maturation continues into one's mid-twenties and even then, it takes several years of living out in the real world and on your own to develop the decision making skills that allow for major age differences that aren't inherently predatory. Kids look up to adults, trust adults, obey adults. That's what they do. They've never been treated as an equal partner in a relationship, so they don't know how to negotiate for their own well-being, stand up for themselves, or trust their instincts. They may be able to consent to a relationship with an adult, but that consent can't be fully informed and the power dynamic of the relationship will be inherently unequal. That's why there are age of consent laws, to protect children against predators.

Frankly, I just don't have seem to have much in common with other "adults", with their rabid materialism, consumerism, conformism, alcoholism, and incessant socializing/partying. I've always had more interest in supposedly juvenile (though I feel they can be very mature) activities such as cartoons, anime, playing with/constructing figurines, playing videogames, and just lounging around wasting a day, the way a child does.

Dude, adults watch anime, play video games, and lounge around. My SO and I--both in professional school--had a spontaneous Nerf gun fight in the apartment a few days ago and are working through Naruto together for the first time ever. Being a gamer and an otaku is not an excuse for screwing kids.

These things don't make me immature, but they make me more empathetic towards younger people, because I can feel what it's like for them not fitting into this cruel adult world.

Oh, okay, now I get it. You don't get along with adults because adults have actual, you know, expectations for their partners, while children, being inexperienced, still put up with irresponsible, immature behavior.

[deleted] · 2015-09-29T03:46:03+00:00

Look, if you were 19 or 18 then I wouldn't care.

But as a teenage girl who's been sexually abused in my pre teen to teen years... it is definitely pedophilia. I was a child. I still am. I didn't have much experience with sex. I was literally fourteen years old.

My stepfather was thirty years older than me. He used me. He manipulated me. I was a naive child who didn't know much about sex, and he took advantage of that.

Even if I was 15, that doesn't make it anymore okay. Why should a grown man have sex with someone in highschool? Yes I know some seniors are 18. But still, if you are way past your teen years there's no reason to date a child still emotionally developing. You would have much more years of experience than a highschool girl would.

Go date some college women. Or women a bit younger than you. Even if you don't mean to take advantage of teenage girls, it will happen. You have much more power over a teenage girl than a teenage boy would.

I get it, sometimes you can't tell the difference between a 19 year old and a 17 year old. But once you know their age, you better leave.

Teenagers are still growing. They explore love with each other. Dating or having sex with adults only complicates things. I don't want any teenager to go through what I've been through. It leaves emotional scars that will never heal for the rest of your life. I'm constantly suicidal and depressed as a result.

Just please... don't do this. I have depression, anxiety, etc as well. None of that is an excuse. There are plenty adults of your age who like "childish" things. Do not target teenagers who are still exploring themselves. You will scar them, the older you are. Some of them will never get over it. They'll regret being taken advantage of for the rest of their lives. Especially if it's a 14 year old in this case.. don't do it.

Accumbenz · 2015-09-29T00:37:10+00:00

My experience as a young female, I inteperated the interest of older men being malicious. They like 'em younger because younger = naive, and easier to take advantage of. Especially younger female.

And they want them virginal, pure, innocent, untarnished. Again, naive, ripe for the advantage taking. And adults justifying ephebophilia were serving their own interests, worse than pedophillia because everyone knows attraction to kids is wrong and disgusting (not socially accepted) so kids can be protected. If I have power over any boy, they don't want me, I reasoned. I don't want them anyway.

This was my own experience growing up with aspergers (worse than the norm with non verbal communication), so it's how I took my own experiences. But growing up also meant I learned this is all so much more complex, not everyone is an advatage taker in the way I think they are.

goatismycopilot · 2015-09-29T02:21:41+00:00

One thing I don't understand, well a few things actually. You say you shouldn't need to explaing yourself which you spend quite a bit of time doing. So, don't explain yourself.

I also do not understand why you resisted saying your age. If you are so committed to your stance, why try and garner validation?

I almost, almost, have a glimmer of recognition about why some in TRP react strongly against certain expressions of feminism that they perceive at the individual level as growing from a paradigm of victimization. It almost makes me wonder if that is is where you are trolling from.

Finally, I know why I am so reactive. And yeah, it comes from a place of emotion not intellect so spit AWALT at me I don't give a fuck. I am a pediatric nurse which does not mean I consider myself an expert on children or teens on the edge of legal adulthood, but I do spend a lot of time around them. They so much more complex than what you are reducing them to. You really don't know them at all.

buttlollipop · 2015-09-29T02:28:24+00:00

Honestly, I feel like you are trolling at this point especially given your choice of words that appear to be purposefully upsetting and off-putting.

muneutrino · 2015-09-29T06:20:09+00:00

You're making the unqualified assumption that because something is wide-spread or "normal," it is also good.

You seem also to be assuming that not technically being pedophilia gets ephebophilia off the hook as being non-predatory, or less harmful, which as other commenters have pointed out is not the case.

I should also point out that you're making a fairly illicit distinction between "teenagers" and "children." There is a reason that no such legal distinction exists. Entering puberty doesn't make someone an adult. Ephebophilia is still an attraction to children, albeit children who have entered puberty.

Whether or not ephebophilia has been the form of attraction experienced by most men for most of history, as you claim, also remains to be seen. From an evolutionary standpoint it wouldn't make much sense, as women don't generally finish puberty until their twenties, hit their most fertile peak between the ages of 21 and 30, and prior to that are at significantly greater risk for complications in pregnancy that lead to things like miscarriages, stillbirths, the mother's death, etc. In other words they're much less likely to produce viable offspring.

It's true that in certain periods of history and even in certain societies today child marriage has been practiced, but this is strictly due to cultural factors and in fact has been shown to be a main contributor to poverty, illiteracy, infant mortality, and a host of other social ills. Also maybe worth pointing out that this only occurs in societies where women are basically chattel. It's a tough sell to suggest that this is the natural order of things.

Also, selection specifically for very young mates is not something we observe in "every other species we know of." It's just not the case. It wouldn't make sense, for the same reasons listed above, the fact that no other species has a concept of a calendar age or virginity, etc.

Additionally, you seem to assume that ephebophilia is something exclusive to heterosexual men. If desiring a much younger, virginal mate is something innocently motivated by natural selection and not social factors like the desire to dominate, control, or take advantage of anybody, why would that be the case? If it's just advantageous to have a super young mate why aren't women selecting for teen boys?

It sounds like you've been through a lot and aren't at a particularly happy place in your life, but none of the arguments you're making fly. You stated the real reasons for your ephebophilia yourself - social anxiety, confidence issues, etc. Those are things you need to work on yourself to have a better life, not an excuse to nurture an attraction to teenage girls. And if people discourage you from sexually or romantically pursuing teenagers, that is not discrimination against you. That's protecting them. Your richness and depth as a human being won't get you off the hook for something that could potentially do great harm to another person.

I hope you read this and find it illuminating, and maybe take another look at some of the choices you're making. I think you'll be better off in the long run.

edited: spelling, words.

andrewisgood · 2015-09-29T01:15:03+00:00

So, you're willing to take advantage of someone who hasn't fully matured and is still making dumb choices, because that's what teenagers do. I call it teenage logic, and most of us know what I'm talking about. Whether it's drinking that point of vodka straight quickly and going to the hospital or it's creepily asking out that person, it's the worst. Lots of brain issues going on.

And like, it's not a relationship, it's a fetish. A fetish of unfairly using someone for sex who you have so much more power over.

BornToBeIncel · 2015-09-29T01:44:38+00:00

I remember most teen girls being very materialistic, conformist and partying more than most adults. I don't discriminate against ephebophiles, I also think that adults who are primarily attracted to other adults shouldn't have sex with underage teens. There comes a point where an age difference means a power imbalance and not in a fun way.

relationshipdownvote · 2015-09-29T01:02:35+00:00

You never wonder why you are an incel do you?

bonerdude420 · 2015-09-29T00:17:41+00:00

Socialization against the exploitation of teens is an important part of civilized society. They still get plenty of opportunities to mess up their life in adulthood

bromance946 · 2015-09-29T01:17:31+00:00

I think being attracted to 15-19 year olds is extremely normal. Being attracted exclusively to them is a bit strange, but attraction isn't really something one can control. The best you can do is critically examine the context in which your preferences developed.

vinegarbubblegum · 2015-09-29T00:45:09+00:00

i like to think i'm the catalyst for this thread.

i don't hate you, i just think you're weird.

why, why can't you date girls your own age? has your mother ever asked you that?

wombatinaburrow · 2015-09-29T06:14:31+00:00

Have you ever seen the anatomical damage sustained by young teenagers who experience sexual assault or pregnancy and childbirth? Forcing preadolescents into sexually active relationships and parenthood is obsolete for a very good reason.

TheChemist158 · 2015-09-29T01:48:41+00:00

Young women don't understand the world, and can't be trusted to make good decisions. Hence they can't sign contracts and such. You are clearly fetishizing them. You want them and can use your superior intellectual and emotional mature to very easily manipulate them.

smallsea · 2015-09-29T18:38:45+00:00

This is fucking disgusting, and really has no place on /r/PurplePillDebate.

As an ephebophile I would NEVER so much as consider having sex with a child.

Yeah, you're just attracted to girls who are 11-16...Oh wait. That's a child!

I have no sympathy for "ephebophiles" which is just sugar-coating the term pedophile and I hope no girl ever has to come in contact with you.

99_Problem · 2015-09-29T01:11:44+00:00

Climb a mountain. Build a house. Fix a car.

Freeze. Starve. Get injured.

Living a sheltered life is the worst thing you can do.

Accumbenz · 2015-09-29T07:09:55+00:00

This is a complex issue, with personal experiences getting in the way of debating and empathy with the opposite sex. This kind of debate really does boil down to feelings. But we need facts on how different people feel.

I was repulsed by older men (and still am) and it didn't have to be that much older, based on the assumptions I described in my other post. I do also know that many women prefer older men, and that when I was a teen, there were other girls that seemed attracted to old men. I'd say a 20 old guy would be popular with 15yo girls, even though that may be illegal. 25 might be for the rebels (could be that cool teacher) but 40 very creepy. Everyone's different and it's hard to say who really has the power, and who the power difference bothers.

Having said that, I don't even find pedophillia wrong, let alone ephebophilia. Attraction is attraction. I have some strange fetishes that I had no choice in, except whether or not I do it, and that's the key point. Many people who sit back and say 'being attracted to blah blah' is wrong and creepy' but they don't know what it's like to have to deal with that in the first place. I find kids and geriatric to be very disgusting personally, but I can understand that not everyone feels that way - I rarely expect my feelings to be the social norm in the first place.

What I do find wrong is the justification of child abuse (like don't feel guilty about it) because adults argue it is normal to be attracted to as young as possible. Attraction, fantasy and reality are different things. Anyway, I don't see the OP arguing that kids should put out for adults, just that attraction is normal.

I do not have any facts about it because I don't have any hatred. The only hatred I have is for anyone that 'creeps' on me, and that's all about feelings. If I think someone is sexually repulsive, I'm not going to suck that up and go on a date. I would not consider them doing something morally wrong unless they start taking advantage. Unfortunately it can be hard to tell who that is, so there's feelings again.

[deleted] · 2015-09-29T14:59:15+00:00

Frankly, I just don't have seem to have much in common with other "adults"

Yeah that's pretty much textbook worldview of a pedophile no matter how you try to justify it

taiboworks · 2015-09-29T00:01:29+00:00

this is interesting (having trouble finding the full pdf)... http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10720160601011257

read page 32 here - https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=alNjPiA5pDQC&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&dq=Ephebophilia&ots=Zy1oLjHZ1Y&sig=SMYgEEhRhPt6GpAkws3ADlqOfHU#v=onepage&q=Ephebophilia&f=false

do you think teens are more manipulable than adults?

Frankly, I just don't have seem to have much in common with other "adults", with their rabid materialism, consumerism, conformism, alcoholism, and incessant socializing/partying.

how are teens different other than having less access to money and alcohol than adult?

ReddishBlack · 2015-09-28T23:48:51+00:00

You don't need to explain yourself. Women that look sexy are sexy.

wont_tell_i_refuse · 2015-09-29T07:17:19+00:00

Commenting to save. We needed someone like you here, /u/BornToBeIncel.

Lord_shitmeister · 2015-09-29T16:13:45+00:00

Younger = better

[deleted] · 2015-09-29T18:25:08+00:00

Most teenage girls are not attracted to much older men and don't appreciate being forced to have sex with them. More often than not young attractive girls who have sex with much older men don't do it consensually. It's fine to have a fantasy but unless you are justin bieber or harry styles 14 year old girls are unlikely to find you attractive especially if attractive women your own age don't even like you, unless they are very obese and ugly or something.

somehaizi · 2015-10-28T21:29:58+00:00

This post gave me cancer.

BornToBeIncel · 2015-09-29T01:22:44+00:00

It's okay man , but you should still go for adults , otherwise you might get in trouble .

I have no problem with pedophiles or ephebophiles as long as they stick to their fantasies and don't act on them.

BornToBeIncel · 2015-09-29T00:04:33+00:00

Just my personal opinion, but I don't care if 14 year old women have sex with 90 year old men. As long as it's consentual, I don't see any damage being done. 30 year old me doesn't want to have sex with you, so if 14 year olds are up for it, then I give you both my blessing. Have at it. What I'm against is 14 year olds getting married. She is too young and stupid to be making that decision, and you should know better.

[deleted] · 2015-09-29T00:43:27+00:00

As someone who has had sex with a 15 year old, its not really any different from sex with someone who is 19.

I don't buy that there is a massive mental difference

[deleted] · 2015-09-29T03:24:20+00:00

[permanently deleted]

YetAnotherCommenter · 2015-09-29T04:42:52+00:00

You're correct that ephebophilia is not pedophilia.

In many cultures, it was only several decades ago when people married far younger than they currently do. People are having children far less young than they used to.

Anglosphere/American culture in particular has a problem with a "hard separation" of childhood and adulthood - you're seen as a child until suddenly on your 18th birthday you're now "grown up." The idea that there's a natural continuum of development rather than an "instant switch" makes a lot more sense biologically and intuitively, yet our culture seems to believe its a sudden movement that happens the moment you become 18 or so.

Chalk it up to modernity and wealth - long childhoods are a luxury good. In the past, the kids were hurried through much more quickly and "grown up" more swiftly.

I guess the issue is when someone becomes cognitively mature, i.e. able to make rational decisions. There should be, IMO, one single age of consent for sex, surgery, drinking, smoking.

What should that age be? And should there be safeguards in place to prevent situations where highly manipulative and intelligent elders target specifically-vulnerable youths? Those are more specific questions but they should certainly be looked at. I won't go into answering right now.

That said, I agree that our culture is unnecessarily horrified by gasp sex amongst elder teens.

However I will admit I find the idea of sex with 13-14-15 year olds rather creepy. 16 and 17? That doesn't necessarily strike me as objectionable.

MarcusWilliamsII · 2015-09-30T12:27:24+00:00

...playing with/constructing figurines...

Ooo, that's my favorite too!

Title	In defense of ephebophilia, or as I call it the way of nature.
Author	BornToBeIncel
Upvotes	0
Comments	173
Date	September 28, 2015 11:43 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3mrlom/in_defense_of_ephebophilia_or_as_i_call_it_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/in-defense-of-ephebophilia-or-as-i-call-it-the-way.279347 https://theredarchive.com/post/279347

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