The RP has helped men to become more successful with women. Why is that a bad thing?

cottongstring · 2014-08-25T20:59:04+00:00

If both the RP men and the women who are with them are happy, what's the problem?...

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[–]Gottlos10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago* (69 children) | Copy Link

Wow... so maybe you should go to THOSE countries with your activism. I already know to treat everyone with respect. We all get taught this a 1000 different ways. You're the one who can't handle information apparently. You put yourself in good company with a lot of religious charlatans with that slippery slope argument.

I assure you I know most of the ways humans can be shitty to each other and yet I don't act that way... almost like the knowledge is neutral. It's almost like our genetics and upbringing determine how we turn out and not some website on the Internet. It's almost like maybe your energy should be directed at the source of the problem (shitty parenting) and not information that makes you feel bad (sexual strategy). You poor poor thing. You've been assaulted with ideas. What ever shall you do?

If you want to be taken seriously perhaps you should stop making blanket statements that just out you as someone interested in censorship. That's what you're asking for... censorship. If you can't handle the information then don't read it. Don't try to save me and others from the world. You are not capable.

Edit: Nothing says butthurt quite like the downvote that requires an extra step. ;)

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[–]GODZILLAFLAMETHROWERBlue Pill Man7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (43 children) | Copy Link

We all get taught this a 1000 different ways.

And yet you find stuff like The Red Pill. Apparently some people are not taught enough.

You're the one who can't handle information apparently

What makes you think that?

almost like the knowledge is neutral

That's very naive. Information is neutral. Knowing things is not, it is power and ultimately it is a political statement ("knowing" something instead of something else, as knowledge is subjective, makes you stand in a specific position, and this point of view is not without consequence). For the same information, you could have different interpretations, and choosing one shows your bias. It is not neutral. TRP is not pure information, it is interpretation.

and not information that makes you feel bad (sexual strategy)

TRP is the problem at hand. It is part of a larger culture worth fighting against in our western countries because we don't want to come back to the same state THOSE countries are in. And TRP is grown ass men acting like children, throwing a tantrum because they don't get what they feel they're entitled to.

It's not making us feel bad, it's mostly making Red Pill men feel bad. However it's wrong and dangerous on a large scale. Dangerous for women, but also for men.

TRP is not only sexual strategy, and choosing one strategy over another is not without consequence anyway.

That's what you're asking for... censorship.

Seeking discussion is not censorship, you are rambling. There will always be fools, and telling them that they are wrong is not silencing them, it's trying to do what their parents should have done, what society should have done. There will always be people seeking a sentiment of self-importance by being edgy. They won't disappear, but you can fight them and not let them be the only voice being heard in the public space.

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if you honestly believe small hate groups without widespread acceptance are beneficial to society at large

The ones I pointed out, yes. I haven't researched every hate group with little power so I don't know for sure.

wouldn't that essentially advocate creating new ones?

No because there is potential for that hate group to do more harm than good. I don't know if a new hate group would actually unite people to hate said group. I know for a fact that the nation is united against hating racism partly because of the KKK and hating homophobia partly because of WBB. I also know that Reddit loves circlejerking about how misogyny and TRP is wrong when talking about TRP. It helps showing people that misogyny is wrong. TRP also does a lot of good for the individuals that go there by turning betas into people who can get laid. I believe that the good of TRP outweighs the bad.

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[–]leftajarRational Behaviorist4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

Rape has actually decreased over 80% since 1979, even though women are more likely to report rape. Despite that, false rape accusations on college campuses are at an all-time high.

False rape accusations are a serious problem:

an annual F.B.I. survey of 1600 law enforcement agencies discovered that 8% of rape charges are completely unfounded. That figure, which has held steadily over the past decade, is moreover at least twice as high as for any other felony.

Most of the victims of rape are women. Therefore, a higher incident of false reports indicates women are more likely to lie than the general population of victims. Or that something about a false rape claim is more appealing than a false claim of another crime. Why might a woman do that?

The motivations involved in making a false report are widely varied and include confusion, outside influence from therapists and others, habitual lying, advantages in custody disputes, financial gain, and the political ideology of radical feminism.

I must ask, where did you get your statistics that women are less manipulative than men? Men are stronger; we can hit other people to get our way. Women are generally limited to manipulation as their main tool of coercion, which is why, on average, they're better at it.

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Are they? I've seen other sources claiming the rate is right in line with other comparable crimes; it's important to keep in mind that "unfounded" does not necessarily mean false. If anything, what you're hitting on is the fact that rape is notoriously hard to substantiate conclusively.

Yes, that's a potential confounding variable. I was hoping you'd go ahead and do your own google search because I'm a bit rushed today, but just quick here's a few related articles:

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10551-012-1525-x

http://www.academia.edu/477207/Relationships_between_Machiavellianism_emotional_intelligence_and_theory_of_mind_in_children

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-04252001-131758/unrestricted/richmond.pdf.prn.pdf

http://www2.psych.ubc.ca/~dpaulhus/research/DARK_TRIAD/CHAPTERS/Jones%20&%20Paulhus_2009_Machiavellianism.pdf

(key bit from that last one: "Most samples show higher Mach scores in men than in women")

I'm actually a bit surprised this isn't common knowledge among redpillers, given the homage they pay to the "dark triad" personality type

[–]leftajarRational Behaviorist0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

The McDowell team studied 556 rape allegations. Of that total, 256 could not be conclusively verified as rape. That left 300 authenticated cases of which 220 were judged to be truthful and 80, or 27%, were judged as false. In his report Charles McDowell stated that extra rigor was applied to the investigation of potentially false allegations. To be considered false one or more of the following criteria had to be met: the victim unequivocally admitted to false allegation, indicated deception in a polygraph test, and provided a plausible recantation. Even by these strict standards, slightly more than one out of four rape charges were judged to be false.

Interesting, so men show a slightly higher incidence of Machiavellianism. I wonder if and how that differs from overall propensity to lie, and what cluster of characteristics are included.

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"You'd be surprised how easy it is to train a woman when you control the only source of sustenance in her life"... which is what you guys really miss, right? Those were the days. Too bad women can support themselves now, so you can't threaten them with destitution.

It's funny how you guys say that women choose to be with red pill men, knowing you lie to and manipulate them, but pretend men don't have any choice at all when it comes to getting out of relationships that aren't good for them.

You can't just say "marriage grossly favors the wife" without citation. It demonstrably does not. Alimony barely exists anymore, and most states have no fault divorce where only marital assets are split. There is still some disparity in relation to domestic abuse, I will never argue that isn't true. However, that has literally nothing to do with women in general- only with physically abusive women who are also liars, and statistically they are a tiny minority of physically abusive partners.

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I don't think it is unfair to have a set of basic expectations in a relationship.

It's not about demands, it's about boundaries and respect. If someone is not willing to respect me, pushes boundaries, etc, I have a duty to myself to free myself from the toxic and unprofitable association to find something more fitting.

Also, feelings are important, but I won't let someone's feelings dictate how I am going to act. I'm going to respect them and nurture them, but not cater to them. I will not let them run my life.

To me, it's about strong, capable, empathetic leadership, not cold authoritarianism.

Women don't want to be treated badly. They want to be led, protected, and they want to be loved.

On the most basic unconscious level, what they want is a strong protector/provider who can go out and kill a boar for dinner, do battle with the lions and neighboring marauders, then come home to her dripping with sweat and the blood of his enemies, fuck the ever living shit out of her, kiss her good night, and rise to meet tomorrow's challenge.

A genuine TRP man understands this and will meet her needs, IF and only if she agrees to meet his.

It's called red pill because it is the recognition of the evolutionary truth that defies the facade society has imposed on our social lives. It is about living in accord with primal instinct and basic human drives, but -and here is the part that people miss- in balance with higher thought/reason.

If anyone seeks to control relationships through domination tactics, he is still living out of a state of fear, fear that he will be abandoned and un-sexed. That is a rather unenlightened and un-mature state to be in. It's not TRP.

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Lolol so true. The funny thing, the most convincing point about trp to me, is that every girl thats ever been into me has completely misunderstood who I am, and fallen in love with a narrative of my personality she creates in her head based off of first impressions. In other words, she thinks im what trp describes as alpha. These relationships last from a few weeks to a few months and end when I get bored of them, refuse to submit to her control, or she realizes her impression of me is totally false, im not really an alpha, and leaves on her own.

Since this is the case, why should I care about authenticity? Or honesty? Or anything deeper than the pursuit of pleasure? What right do I have to be loved for who I am? Why would I even need such validation?

I guess my ultimate point is that I dont care WHY an attractive girl is fucking me, I just care THAT she is fucking me.

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[–]We_Are_LegionAutumn Red0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually, RP doesn't operate basing its tactics on lying about our intentions. In fact, on that front, RP adopts advantageous group morals.

For example; plate spinning. You'll never hear something different than "Make your intentions clear". "always make sure she knows what she's in", "never lie about anything significant. be completely upfront and honest". Its not that we care a lot her agency is preserved(even though it de-facto is), its that it gives her less ammo to use if she changes her mind. Similarly for any other tactics, RP does it blatantly. The charge that women don't know who we are is simply going to get you eyerolls.

Moreover, most of the changes RP are part of your personality. Such as frame. Its trained and it becomes fluid and effortless. Most people, in the process of calling shit-tests, find their life flow smoother and also do it out of their own personal whim.

Justify yourself and tell me where exactly we're creating fake versions of ourselves. The art of imitating high value males is as old as time. But RP isn't about that. RP believes can smell pretenders, conscious or otherwise, and she breaks them down into their true substance over time(shit-tests) and we don't aim to be pretenders.

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I love how you act like it's ignorant to say that if you keep having the same situation with multiple people that you're the problem, when actually that is logically, rationally the most likely explanation.

This is that common denominator line that I've heard a million times. What was ignorant about his post is that I know from first hand experience that nice gets you literally nowhere with women. That like attracts like line sounds fucking amazing if it were true.

He also doesn't realize TRP teaches men how to avoid getting entangled with selfish crazy women. I, for one, would like a good woman in my life. He does not know what he is talking about. That's what makes him ignorant.

You probably aren't going to meet nice women, because most nice women are going to smell what you're cooking before you manage to spit your psuedo-clever, negging lines at them and avoid you like the plague.

This is also ignorant of you because I don't neg anyone you jackknifing retard. I don't do the PUA thing. You don't know who I am as a person. You're instigating and getting angry because I won't be so easily persuaded by your lame arguments.

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TRP has an action plan. This comment here "maybe they should learn to avoid women that mistreat them" is telling of just how out-of-touch with those types some BPers are. If like these betas, you are raised in a society that tells them everyone is a good person and to be a good person and good things will happen to you, then you are completely naive and inexperienced with zero chance against women that have a higher emotional IQ than you. And for those early formative parts of the years have a better hand and can manipulate that hand way better than a beta could conceive. It's ridiculous when these people "well cant you see past her deceptive ways even though you believe she's a goddamn angel incapable of doing wrong thru indoctrination"? This is the reason TRP doesnt white wash women's true nature and behaviours and attempts to give the breakdowns on it along with ACTIONABLE advice that yields results one can judge from their own field experience. This is the reason BPs suggestions always will be subpar to such betas

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That's a good question, and the only answer I can give you is, we're probably not out at the bar or club on the weekends. Personally, I've never been into that scene, because it tends to be filled with the people that I want to avoid- the people only interested in one night stands and hookups. I don't think there's anything wrong with the people who want to have hookups, it's just not for me. I need to actually be interested in a person for more than that.

If what you want is a woman who will likely be more committed, and not fuck around on you, I'd suggest taking up a hobby, joining a group in your area that does something you find fun. For me, that's board games, rock climbing, hiking, and fishing, so I've joined groups that participate in those things. Volunteer, get out in your community and expose yourself to new people. Cultivate friendships with women with interests similar to yours. Don't discount the quiet girl, or that fiercely smart, nerdy girl. Treat us with genuine interest, and get a feel for our character. You might be surprised at who you can find while participating in something constructive.

On another note: I am pretty submissive when it comes to my personal relationships, and I enjoy the man taking the lead, for the most part, within our private relationship. It seems to me that most TRP guys would like a woman who would enjoy deferring to him and being open to trying new things in bed and otherwise being fairly submissive. In those cases, I'd suggest maybe learning a little bit about D/s or BDSM relationships. For that, fetlife.com can be a great resource, and can be a wonderful place to find classes, workshops and meetups of similarly curious people as well as the more experienced.

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Questions for you: What about D/s relationships do you have questionable feelings about? If you're RP, do you identify as an Alpha? How do you think that's much different from being a Dominant? Most "ideal" TRP situations sound like a more vanilla attempt at a D/s relationship, honestly. Also, keep in mind that those relationships don't always have to look like they do in porn or in books like 50 Shades. There are no rules other than what you and your partner set for yourselves; but, communication is key in that kind of setup, and so is mutual respect and affection. I know that when I'm in a D/s setup, I am very loyal to my partner, and adore him. I would do anything to please him, just as I know that he has my best interests in mind and would never lead me down a path that would be harmful. Trust is at the heart of it all, and it flows both ways.

I totally understand that finding people in smaller, less populated areas is hard, but if you're gearing up to move, that gives you time to look around for groups and awesome places before you move there.

Tinder is a hookup app, so again, it's kind of like going to the bar or a club and looking to find a woman who doesn't want a fling or a series of flings. Quality on an app like that is questionable.

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Well, you and I disagree about that. The stereotypes I listed above are a) not true in my own humble experience and b) contradicted by established research in some cases. I can see how this

I was astounded by how similar the experiences others would write about were to my own at first

could be powerfully compelling, though. I think that's what draws many guys to TRP in the first place--the sub offers camaraderie, plus a narrative that provides a sense of certainty and control over something that is usually understood as mysterious and risky. For someone who's feeling unfulfilled in the sex & dating arena, it's natural to want to believe there's a solution, especially one that paints the "opposition" in such a deeply unflattering light...a light that I would argue makes it much, much easier for a guy to feel confident in his dealings with women

*edit to add that if someone comes across TRP and hasn't had those same experiences and therefore the narrative doesn't resonate with them, they're going to move right along without stopping (potentially perpetuating the cycle of confirmation bias. Banning any whiff of "concern trolling" doesn't help either)

[–]RedPill4LYFHeterosexual Red Pill Man6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

[–]BaadKittehMiss me, bitches?4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]We_Are_LegionAutumn Red10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

RP does not deal with simply personal anecdotal stories. If you'll scroll up, or hell, read many threads, most arguments against RP are to the tune of

""but im not like that". Ironically, the number 1 argument against RP is anecdotal stories(NAWALT). "Women lie in sex surveys at twice the rate of men" But I'm not like that. "60%+ women are married but not in love with their husbands, compared to 11% of men" But I'm not like that! "Misattributed paternity rates, depending on region, are off the charts unbelievable" But I'm not like that! "45% of women would lie about contraception and a significant percent(more than half) would not tell the father if they had baby through cheating' but i'm not like that. Almost all marriages have an unacceptable de-facto power imbalance through gatekeeper of sex advantage and "threat-point. The only things stopping women from employing it is how goodnatured they are. Consequently, 95%(assumed) and 50%(divorces) do." But I wouldn't! Sluts make terrible long-term partners, here's data and ARGUMENTS showing why. But I wouldn't!

We could go on and on and on. RP does not exclusively deal in anecdotes. But when people come to us and make threads saying... I've lived this too, we support them. Because that is a function of RP, support. RP is de-facto group therapy.

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Again, this is where talking to your partner is important. If she's unwilling to work with you, then yes, there's a problem, and you have every right to find a solution that works for you; if that's a dissolution of a relationship, that's fine, that happens. I don't think there's anything wrong with breaking it off with someone because of sexual incompatibility- I've had to do it in the past, because I wanted it more often than he did, and he wasn't willing to meet me halfway and even try to be more intimate.

My issue is that TRP doesn't seem to advocate for trying to repair the broken bond, it seems to be a very black and white approach to it all. She's not putting out, so don't even try to work with her on it. "Be emotionally unavailable, cold and harsh, she'll either straighten up or leave." is the sort of thing that I hear echoing all the time in TRP.

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What I'm talking about here is the mentality in TRP that if a woman stops being sexual, at all, then that's the time to break out the emotional abuse and scare her into doing what you want, instead of you know, checking in with her and seeing if maybe there's a reason that she's stopped having interest. I don't think that dropping a relationship immediately because of an often temporary problem is necessarily healthy or conducive to long-term relationships, but then again, RedPillers don't seem to be interested in long-term anyway, it's all about quantity to the bulk of them.

In a healthy relationship, you will have times when you're not exactly happy, when things aren't all puppies riding rainbows. What matters in those situations is how you deal with it. If you look at the situation and see that it's a bigger problem that is just going to spiral into something that will make you miserable, I don't have any issues with anyone terminating the relationship; it's when it's solvable, but one party doesn't want to put the effort into fixing it, that I have a bit of a problem.

Edit: There's an implied agreement that you're going to put an effort into maintaining a relationship, on both sides- otherwise why would you be in that relationship? I do think that you owe it to your partner to try to work with them to come to a solution that everyone can live with. Compromise does have to happen sometimes, and anyone who tries to tell you differently is full of shit.

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[–]DaystarEld0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

And the "no true scotsman" rears its ugly head.

No no, it's not TRP to blame: it's just newbies who don't know the TRUE meaning of TRP giving you guys a bad name! You're really all about directness and honesty! Nevermind that the language and culture is absolutely steeped in bullshit science and promotes manipulation.

Saying that TRP is about being "straight and direct, no bullshit" is hilarious. Go ahead and tell your woman exactly what you're doing when you demonstrate what you learn from TRP. Teach her all about it: show her the sidebar, explain to her how it works and why. Every time you think she's demonstrating her feminine stupidity or manipulation, explain to her what she's doing and how you're going to counter it.

THEN come back and tell me how you're all about being honest and direct, and not about manipulation. Until then, saying people just dislike TRP because you're not "politically correct" shows just how deep in the echo chamber you are.

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[–]DaystarEld0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No matter how much I argue with you, you'll never see it the way the way TRP'ers see it.

Actual knowledge in the science of evolutionary psychology helps with that, yeah. If TRP actually had facts behind its ideology, we wouldn't even be having this conversation, but your arguments just don't mean anything when you're not willing or able to defend them logically or with evidence.

Some people just don't want to wake up. Keep on swallowing the blue pill and living in your fantasy land.

The "fantasy land" full of smart and strong willed women in my life who don't act scummy or manipulative? Yeah, I'll keep swallowing that pill, thanks.

The last thing I'm going to say is that I think you should read the sidebar on /r/theredpill and if you have any further questions, message the moderators.

I have read it. The worst thing about the echo chamber you live in is it makes you honestly believe that anyone who doesn't like you just doesn't understand you. The idea that someone could be intimately familiar with your perspective but have good reasons not to like it just gets caught in your cognitive biases and filtered right out.

I really hope you wake up someday, but as long as you keep surrounding yourself with people who reinforce your worldview, I doubt that'll happen.

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[–]GODZILLAFLAMETHROWERBlue Pill Man5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

The RP has helped men to become more successful with women.

what proof do you have of that?
Being confident is enough to get a few girl. As a BP man, I'm acting RP in some way, since before the creation of RP, and I'm still BP. Not even Purple Pill. Red Pill wants to polarize, then they don't get choosy about their label. So, then, why attribute that to RP? Why attribute that to the shitload of harmful ideologies that are linked with the self-improvement to bait a few immature losers who don't know better? Why catter to the angered crowd and the insane sexists if what you want to do is self-improve? This is cult-like, a despicable us-vs-them mentality, harmful not only to women but to the men getting trapped in this way of thinking.
Since absolutely no one on the BP side said that being more successful with women was a bad thing, your question is a straw-man, and is framed in your own little view. You are moreover infringing on Rule 2 from the sidebar.

[–]Pointless_Endeavors9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]GODZILLAFLAMETHROWERBlue Pill Man-5 points-4 points-3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Obviously only he can make the assessment that RP improved his life.

He was talking about men, as in, several men, of whom he certainly never heard of in meatspace.

"Be confident" is about as helpful for a guy with relationship troubles as "make more money" for someone with financial troubles.

Yes, this is a shortcut meant to encompass everything behind. Building a life for yourself, being critical of yourself but also realist and accepting that you have assets worth something on your own, and generally being psychologically stable. It's the work of getting out of the teenage years and starting to act like a full grown person.

Using supposedly "manipulative" RP tactics is what he is getting at. He's asking why using the RP, not why being successful with women, is bad.

Okay, and that's what I was answering in point 2. However his formulation is still not neutral, something that should be avoided in a discussion board.

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I just take what I need from it, yes the part that's encourage improvement but not just that, but the parts that explain why women do the things they do and to learn to accept them. This last part is usually drowned in all the hate TRP receives but this is why so many guys stay, why after the EMSK post the sub had a surge of subscribers because it answers the question "why do they say they want nice guys but go for the jerks" and goes beyond just saying cause jerks are confident and you should just be confident (as someone else said here, telling a guy 'just be more confident' is about as helpful as telling someone with financial issues to "just make more money").

It's not just to pick up girls at the bar, I can't imagine the relief some divorced men felt when their wives just out of nowhere stabbed them in their back and now they know why and what is in their own control to change, we get posts of such men too, also of men who are not yet divorced but are able to get their marriage out of a dead bedroom by understanding TRP.

The negative territory you speak off are just individual contributions of guys under the guise of anonymity, I have the criteria to take the good and keep the bad out, what some men say about going dark triad (that's the term used to describe manipulative, Machiavellic and narcissistic behaviour) and if this is talked about is because they do work, for those who are able to act that way, and they get what they want out of it, just like how I get what I want/need out of the rest of TRP literature.

[–]OfSpock3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

If by successful, you mean get one night stands with not-very picky women, then perhaps some guys have had some success. If that's what they want, then go for it.

However some of them allege that they want long term relationships with nice women and TRP will never get that for them. Seriously, I've had at least three of them tell me they would reject me* for having standards, one of which is how long we would have to date before sex. Which is just illogical, if you want a woman with a low partner count, she won't be having sex with you on the first date. By treating all women as thought they are going to take advantag of you, you are just going to drive off all the ones who wouldn't by nsulting them.

Yes, I know it's not supposed to be obvious, but lets face it, if you were naturally good at being social, would you be at TRP?

*Theoretical only, I'm married and in my forties. They informed me of this.

[–]Pointless_Endeavors10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If by successful, you mean get one night stands with not-very picky women, then perhaps some guys have had some success. If that's what they want, then go for it. However some of them allege that they want long term relationships with nice women and TRP will never get that for them.

Let me get this straight. You admit that it get's them laid, a goal many of them want before getting married if the choose. But that none of them are in relationships? Women decide they are sexually attractive enough for sex, but never decide to follow it up with relationships?

Yes, I know it's not supposed to be obvious, but lets face it, if you were naturally good at being social, would you be at TRP?

I love how you play both sides. What you are saying is "You're pathetic for needing dating advice. You're even more pathetic for looking for dating advice and wanting to change your situation. You should just die alone and let people who naturally get it to have fun"

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1) most of that is hyperbole that flies over your head. its not that the more sane of us come to argue. its that when we come to argue, we dispense with the assumption you'll understand hyperbole. every single one of us who regular RP spout the same stuff back in RP that we explain in plainer language here. For example, i'll call it treating her like a child there, to put people in that mindset, while here i'll actually give examples of how harmless and effective treating someone like a child is. the example is third paragraph if you want to skip explanation. < I actually challenge you to, using the method, and while attacking the method(and I re-emphasize the method, not the title) to tell me why its not effective or desirable to "treat a woman like a child".

I treat my woman like a child all the time. Its fun to use the expression, but it doesn't mean I think she's a teenager, or that I use it outside RP.

2) RP is objectively not a monolith.

[–]shitpostwhispererReality Contrarian1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

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Rape culture and the patriarchy are observations of aspects of our society/culture (whether you agree with those observations/parts of social research/feminism is not really relevant.)

I can just as easily define TRP as "observations of aspects of our society/culture" and then learning how to make the best of the situation.

It's a quite literal (red pill?) attempt to subvert someone's current reality for another one (of course TRP holds this backwards, that they're "waking up to reality" by taking the red pill, but the effect is the same, they're litterally trying to escape their current existence for another.)

This is exactly what Feminism does when they teach new women about the patriarchy and rape culture. They are waking them up.

They're not really similar in effect they have on people that would invest in them

Have you been to /r/tumblrInAction? The people who take the rad Feminist pill are just as crazy as TRP. I don't know why you think TRP is unique. Both Feminism and TRP "alter~~ing~~ the reactions someone has to women, [men,] and themselves." Teaching any ideology almost always has the affect of altering people's reaction to X.

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I don't think it is cool, but people are very liberal with their use of "emotional abuse." I don't believe there can be a situation of emotional abuse when one party doesn't have a significant more amount of power and that party didn't pull a bait and switch.

Scenario of emotional abuse: A guy has been dating this girl for a year now, and he has always been a great guy to her. The guys talks the girl into moving across the country to live with him, and he knows the girl doesn't have a lot of money right now. Afterwards the guy starts getting pissy at little things just to jerk the girl around. Now any time the girl disagrees on anything or won't have sex, he threatens to dump her and kick her out. This is clear cut emotional abuse.

NOT a scenario of emotional abuse: Guy has been dating a girl for a year. Girl decides she doesn't want to have sex anymore. Guy informs girl that he wants a sexual relationship. If she can't provide one, then he will leave. Guy ends up leaving or girls ends up sleeping him regularly. Either way that isn't emotional abuse.

If you head on over to /r/twoX, you will see how quick people are to label everything emotional abuse. I just have a hard time taking it seriously from anyone online now.

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Here's a bit of dehumanizing, emotional abuse.

"Treating Women Like Children" AKA grown women, even highly educated ones are stupid because I said so and everything's about me and my penis and making sure I'm happy.

This is actually rape. He forced himself onto his wife in a situation she was uncomfortable with.

"You do what you have to short of breaking the law" including lying, manipulation, and abuse!

Educated women are just like special needs children because I say so.

Demand. It's all about ME, ME, ME, MY PENIS, WHAT I WANT! And I will MAKE YOU DO IT unless you want me to manipulate and treat you poorly more!

Encouraging women to have eating disorders because it's all about what's visually appealing to ME, and women's health and well-being takes a backseat to my penis.

Upvoted comment about how a boy sexually abused his girlfriend every time his behavior wasn't exactly what he wanted because it's all about him because she's a woman and he's a man.

Women are only good for things that please my penis, and once we get sex robots, all their value is gone.

Women should only have as many rights as a child because I said so.

Very frequent visitor and contributor to TRP says a 14-year-old was basically asking for the sexual relationship she was in with an authority figure.

It's fun to make women insecure.

TRP gets mad when girlfriend treats him like a child, but says the best method of interacting with her is treating her like a child.

"I don't consider "no" to be a refusal of sex, nor pushing past that to be rape." Direct quote.

We're both getting laid, even if you say "no" in a way that I don't want to listen to because it's all about me.

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[–]We_Are_LegionAutumn Red0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]MagicGainbowKeepin' it real, havin' a feel7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link

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[–]We_Are_LegionAutumn Red0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]We_Are_LegionAutumn Red0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Here's a bit of dehumanizing, emotional abuse.

I don't actually see the emotional abuse. I do think there's a case to be made for dehumanizing, but then RP is de-facto meant to accommodate people like him and keep them contained in RP(and not outside) while they work through their anger, vocalize it, hear feedback, and let it go in pursuit of higher goals. Would you think if we censored him, his opinion would cease to exist? It would just unsurface and possibly be more dangerous. He'd go on thinking that way forever, since most people don't go on to challenge their assumptions. Had you included context, on RP, the response, 9/10 times he would've gotten to that statement would be something like "Once you can get sex reliably, work on getting value beyond the bare minimum. Find women who are worthwhile to talk to and settle for nothing less." For all we know, all he talks to are hookers paid by the hour.

"Treating Women Like Children" AKA grown women, even highly educated ones are stupid because I said so and everything's about me and my penis and making sure I'm happy.

Its gaylubeoil, do you also believe his far more upvoted post about "women are pokemon" is true and literal? How about the number 2 all-time post on PPD? You are simply getting offended when most of the people in the comments are laughing, or getting offended like you and being filtered out of Red pill. ONE OF THE REASONS WE FIND GLO FUNNY IS BECAUSE WE CAN IMAGINE HOW MUCH YOU DONT

This is actually rape. He forced himself onto his wife in a situation she was uncomfortable with.

Given. Its a poor choice of thing to gloat about. Though in all fairness, if he's the source you trust, even before that quote went live(and especially after it, if it matters), his wife does not seem to consider it rape. I've had a few arguments with people on here where BP people told me "than that's not what we're talking about! Its not technically rape, if she's ok with it! You're using the word wrong!" If she gave consent while drunk, and later did not retract that consent, it is a dangerous situation of rape avoided at best. Also, I'll say from experience, lots of women try anal only to say they don't want to do it again, only to want to try it again a few months later on the assumption it'll be different, and then go back to no anal. That in itself, doesn't exactly speak of rape. 1/8 for poor choice of thing to gloat about.

"You do what you have to short of breaking the law" including lying, manipulation, and abuse!

1) you inserted those words into your quote. But even if we accept them, I would argue it is the modus operandi of women to lie, manipulate and abuse, its just that some forms are accepted as a-ok(women's dread for example, or shit-tests). 2) I've argued before, and I'll do so again, by the completely absurd way BP throws around the word abuse, 99% of relationships are unhealthy and abusive. Including yours. If you get to deny certain forms of abuse don't apply to you, than why don't I, when I've literally paraded around a described and RP-agreed-on method of dread game(that coincidentally 100% matches many field report threads cited by BP as examples of abuse) and asked BP to explain to me why its abuse? I'll give you a hint. I got nothing but referals to heartiste, a good link blog among 10 others on the side-bar and specifically the language he used in his article in Jan2008 that offended some tinkerbell on TBP. None of the other 10 blogs in that list are ever cited, though they also go into dread. Have a go yourself at one though. Explain to me why dread game is abuse(using the method, not the title).

Educated women are just like special needs children because I say so.

Again, GayLubeOil. You take him more seriously than he himself does. Part of the reason we think he's hilarious is we can imagine you don't.

Demand. It's all about ME, ME, ME, MY PENIS, WHAT I WANT! And I will MAKE YOU DO IT unless you want me to manipulate and treat you poorly more!

Can you read? Context is very important. It is a hypothetical and amplified version of the same demand a woman makes. Say you tell me "I want RP banned from Reddit". I can say "I want a ferrari". Both of us don't get what we want but I do get to point out the silliness of your hypothetical request. This is the direct parallel of that quote. Are you really this thick? Why is this here? Any criticism of a woman, no matter, how justified is misogyny?

Encouraging women to have eating disorders because it's all about what's visually appealing to ME, and women's health and well-being takes a backseat to my penis.

Maybe he was joking? Hell, why do women expect muscles? It promotes muscle injury. Why do women expect a good salary or a manly man? It promotes depression and suicide.

Upvoted comment about how a boy sexually abused his girlfriend every time his behavior wasn't exactly what he wanted because it's all about him because she's a woman and he's a man.

An example. Of "baffling" behaviour. Shockhorror.

Women are only good for things that please my penis, and once we get sex robots, all their value is gone.

Their inherent value.*

Women should only have as many rights as a child because I said so.

Given. Is pretty downvoted too. RP has anger-phase people. Read above post on the purposes of RP.

Very frequent visitor and contributor to TRP says a 14-year-old was basically asking for the sexual relationship she was in with an authority figure.

Context. How does it work? Its almost like I could go through your history and find you being misandrist and be easily disproven by context.

It's fun to make women insecure.

"Becky, my BF is so cute when he's jealous! Nevermind I already said he's perfect as he is, in literally the very same fucking picture." Honest question, can you read? Or do you home in on the perceived misogyny with context?

TRP gets mad when girlfriend treats him like a child, but says the best method of interacting with her is treating her like a child.

Oh no, an asktrp thread. You really got us now. Nevermind that's not what treating someone like a child means. Nobody is making goo-goo noises at women.

"I don't consider "no" to be a refusal of sex, nor pushing past that to be rape." Direct quote.

Neither do I. If you truly believe No always means, no, with no exceptions, forever and in all circumstances, and women always mean precisely what they say, I have nothing more to say to you. And nothing worth arguing about. I have raped close to a dozen women by your standards. The fact is, Feminism's standards of consent mean little in the field, for the guys who actually have all the onus on them to apply it, while women act coy and the pursued. Sometimes when I don't do a repeat performance of these "rapes", girls ask me why. I have 2 video recordings of women on my phone where I got girls to say for me: "no doesn't always mean no" when I pretended to be oh-so-concerned about your standards of consent. And then beg me for sex, the videos get dirty fast.

Let me give you another quote though if you'd like: I don't consider all "no"s to be a refusal of sex, nor pushing past them to be rape. (And neither do the girls). And I'm going to continue to think so, until BP offers a shred of counter-argument.

We're both getting laid, even if you say "no" in a way that I don't want to listen to because it's all about me.

Read above. Your attempts to re-define rape are imaginary. People ignore it wholesale, except to nod politely at a pretty example of social justice. Nobody's listening. Not even the women. Take for example, people say sorry, and the tone decides if you'll forgive them or be even more angry. Nuance is a powerful thing, and sometimes holds more meaning than words. A woman can say no, and mean yes. Goddamn, I am convinced you are all virgins at this point.

It doesn't matter at all that the ex-girlfriend later thanked him, BECAUSE APPARENTLY, YOU DECIDE CONSENT, NOT HER. Tell me, as a straight male "predator" and repeat offender rapist, why I should give a fuck what you say over the girl? I have never, in my life, pushed past no, and encountered an actual no. There's a difference between "I want to go home! Please" or "Please stop, I don't want to" and "No, absolutely not. We're not having sex. Forget it." or "I'm still angry at you. Don't think I forgot" or "stoooop, -giggle- there's people around..." or "I'm not... sure wrl. we can cuddle though. I'm just not comfortable with sex this early, ok?"

2 out of 15, see me after class.

[–]Pointless_Endeavors2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]We_Are_LegionAutumn Red0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BaadKittehMiss me, bitches?1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]nninja4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DreamtrainNeither0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MelodyheartPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The main issue I've seen with the red pill isn't exactly men being happy, it's just switching whoever is abusing "the game." As a random side note, I'm not completely blue pill, but the more I've been reading everything everyone has to say, the more biased I'm becoming for te Blue Pill (I'll probably even change my flair soon). I've read a lot of the posts on the red pill, and most of what is said takes humanity away from women. I feel as though the RP indiciduals who come here are more reasonable than TRP subreddit itself, but what I've read there leaves a sickened pit in my stomach at the thought of having someone have a partner that thinks so lowely of them. "Women cannot love anyone besides their children." Ouch. Didn't know that what my bio/phyc classes taught me about interactions/feelings only apply to men. When I imagine being in a room with the people who say this, I instantly feel as though I would be viewed only as some talking animal. Just looking at that sentence alone, ignoring every other insulting to women, people I've had relationships with, etc, I feel as though someone is telling me that my feelings aren't real. I am not okay with that. The whole idea around that sub isn't "improvement," it's "there is an issue here, and we feel we are getting the short end of the stick. Let's not fix this and create equality, let's turn this so we have the advantage." A man should not be the only one in charge in a relationship. Both PEOPLE should be in charge. That is my grief with TRP. Red pillers have a reason that they go to it, but you asked why I don't like it and that is my answer.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]MagicGainbowKeepin' it real, havin' a feel5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]MagicGainbowKeepin' it real, havin' a feel9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]MagicGainbowKeepin' it real, havin' a feel5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]MagicGainbowKeepin' it real, havin' a feel2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	The RP has helped men to become more successful with women. Why is that a bad thing?
Author	cottongstring
Upvotes	13
Comments	312
Date	August 25, 2014 8:59 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2ekc4b/the_rp_has_helped_men_to_become_more_successful/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-rp-has-helped-men-to-become-more-successful.285011 https://theredarchive.com/post/285011

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