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Help dealing with withdrawn checked-out and angry wife

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December 1, 2019
19 upvotes

I got temp banned with a Rule 9 violation last week in OYS because I was whining about my wife moving back to the guest room again. I deserved it.

I need help though. I feel like I'm not making progress here and looking for some insight. The pattern that keeps repeating is that I take steps to lead my own life and my family and she feels "disrespected" that I'm not consulting her on every decision anymore. Then at some point I do something at I want or say no to her about something, and that triggers her victim mentality, she gets angry, lashes out, and moves to guest room. We become roommates at that point and basically she goes to "her room" after dinner, I get the kids to bed and we basically avoid each other the rest of the night. If I try to approach her room she'll yell at me to leave claiming that it's her space.

I reset every day, say good morning, sometimes make her a coffee or go for a hug. She ignores me and doesn't make eye contact. When I get home from work, I always greet everyone enthusiastically (which the kids love) and she doesn't even turn her head. I can feel the anger and resentment in the air. It sucks.

After a few weeks of this she'll make some comment about how I don't even communicate with her anymore. That makes me chuckle because of course she's the one withdrawn in the guest room. And then fight begins where she screams at me that I'm punishing her, that everyone is trying to hurt her, she's holed up here to protect herself, that I don't respect her, that I'm not on her side, brings up shit from 9 years ago when I was very weak (yes mistakes were made). She says she doesn't like this new me, that I used to be nice and caring and now I'm selfish, and that whatever I'm doing is making things worse.

The last couple cycles of this I try to provide comfort and end up caving to some of her demands to restore the peace. She comes back to the bedroom, we fuck once or twice, until the whole cycle repeats again after a few weeks of sexual denials and ramping up withdrawal of attention & dread.

Please help me see what I'm doing wrong and how I can break out of this loop.

Background: Married 10.5 years, 2 kids (7 and 3). Beta provider for all of our relationship until I had a crisis leading up to our 10 year anniversary and realized that I'm not getting what I want out of my relationship while her entitlement was soaring. Went rambo at the beginning, then retreated for a bit and things were better for a short time. Started lifting and exercising and am in best shape now since married. Took steps to build my own life outside of her -- bought a 2nd car so we each have independence, got an office so I'm out of the house every day, try to go to events and stuff after work when possible, pushing more of the kids/household duties on to her. My social life is lacking because I'm always working when not doing stuff with the kids/family.


Post Information
Title Help dealing with withdrawn checked-out and angry wife
Author MightBeNiceGuy
Upvotes 19
Comments 117
Date 01 December 2019 05:33 PM UTC (9 months ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/297366
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/e4ki42/help_dealing_with_withdrawn_checkedout_and_angry/
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Comments

[–]PillUpAss23 points24 points  (20 children) | Copy

What do you see as your lesson to learn here? What is she subconsciously trying to teach you?

A few passages from WOTSM, which I suggest you read / reread immediately:

“TOLERATING HER LEADS TO RESENTING HER A man gets resentful and frustrated with his woman when he is too afraid, weak, or unskilled to penetrate her moods and tests into love. He wishes she were easier to deal with. But it is not entirely her fault that she is bitchy and complaining. It is also a reflection of her lack of being penetrated by love. When a man resigns, and simply tolerates his woman’s self-destructive moods, it is a sign of his weakness. His attitude has become one of wanting to escape women and the world, rather than wanting to serve women and the world into love. A man shouldn’t tolerate bitchy and complaining moodiness in his woman, but he should serve her and love her with every ounce of his skill and perseverance. Then, if she cannot or will not open in love, he might decide to end his relationship with her, harboring no anger or resentment, because he knows he has done everything he could.”

“The feminine part of your woman is either opening in loving surrender (easy moments) or closing in what ends up being an emotional test of your capacity to open her (difficult moments).”

“A superior man sees his woman’s moods not as a curse, but as a challenge and an amusement. There are many ways to creatively deal with her moods and help her to open. Tickle her. Take off your clothes and dance the watusi. Sing opera for her. Make animal sounds. Shout at her louder than you ever have and then kiss her passionately. Press your belly into her until she melts. Lift her off the ground and spin her around. Occasionally, talking with her helps, but not as often as humor and physically expressed love.

If you have tried every creative, humorous, and powerful way of loving through her mood and she still refuses to let go of her closure, then simply relax. You have done everything you can. If you are not skillful enough to serve her, or she is not willing enough to receive your gifts, perhaps you are with the wrong woman.

Just remember that any woman you are with, if she has a feminine sexual essence, will cycle through moods of closure every day which seem to have no “reason” to them. You cannot avoid this by changing women or waiting for the moods to stop. You can only develop your skill in serving your woman into openness. It never ends though, even if you are passionate, fearless, loving, and humorous with her.”

Also, this is 100% your dumbass fault.

[–]MightBeNiceGuy[S] 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

Thanks. I listened to the audiobook version not long ago. I probably should read the text again to better internalize the message.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm partial to the audio version myself, having been through TWOTSM 30+ times.

Its concisely broken into chapters that are easy listens of around 10-15 minutes at most. Listen, write down your thoughts, go to next.

It has been the most influential book on the sidebar for me, and took the situation with what you're seeing in your wife to a much better place. Check out my history of you are interested.

[–]MightBeNiceGuy[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the reply. I've already read much of your history. I've been following your posts for a while. You're one of my inspirational figures here and I'm very happy for you.

[–]mrbadassmotherfucker2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Listened to the audio book almost 3 times now. Only the second time round did I really understand what he was getting at. Third time is really sinking in.

Get that shit in repeat.

[–]PillUpAss4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes. I also found reading on Kindle with note taking through the app very effective at distilling the information into something that is easily referenced (hence how I got to the above quickly).

[–]PillUpAss1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You didn’t answer my questions. That’s ok, but you need to answer them for you.

[–]FoxShitNasty831 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

“A superior man sees his woman’s moods not as a curse, but as a challenge and an amusement. There are many ways to creatively deal with her moods and help her to open. Tickle her. Take off your clothes and dance the watusi. Sing opera for her. Make animal sounds. Shout at her louder than you ever have and then kiss her passionately. Press your belly into her until she melts. Lift her off the ground and spin her around. Occasionally, talking with her helps, but not as often as humor and physically expressed love.

I really like this. This is fixing her feelz right. Everytime I try something to change her moods I fail. Does your smv need to be higher in order for this to work.. or weak sauce 150lbs skinny doesn't stand a chance.

[–]PillUpAss2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy

You can be a skinny little shit and still be alpha (which is what this behavior is), look at Corey Worthington. You can also be ripped af and failing these opportunities like a pussy (and like most men).

How are you handling her moods? Give a recent example.

[–]FoxShitNasty830 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

Moods are mainly anger (relating to pain management). I deal with the anger directed at me by not taking her seriously (it took me a long time to realise it's not about me) and distracting her with humor.

[–]PillUpAss0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

Not enough detail for me to help you much but how do you know you are failing?

If it is legit physical pain, you are not going to be able to address that with these skills - only emotional pain. Chances are if there is the former, it is accompanied by the latter, so you still have work to do.

Do you feel your own positive masculine energy as you provide humor or is this coming off as try-hard and annoying?

If you are providing the best of yourself (which I doubt), and are unable to pierce her mood, then just relax. You’ve done what you can and it may be the wrong woman for you. To reiterate, I don’t think you are there, yet. It’s far more likely your humor and your energy suck.

[–]FoxShitNasty830 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Not enough detail for me to help you much but how do you know you are failing?

Same as this guy, angry wife. No sex.

If it is legit physical pain, you are not going to be able to address that with these skills - only emotional pain. Chances are if there is the former, it is accompanied by the latter, so you still have work to do.

Legit physical pain but also bleeds into emotional pain.

Do you feel your own positive masculine energy as you provide humor or is this coming off as try-hard and annoying?

Try hard and annoying for sure.

If you are providing the best of yourself (which I doubt), and are unable to pierce her mood, then just relax. You’ve done what you can and it may be the wrong woman for you. To reiterate, I don’t think you are there, yet. It’s far more likely your humor and your energy suck.

Ok need to relax, improve humor and energy. Specifically I need to find things that give me positive masculine energy.

[–]PillUpAss3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

It’s not a checklist, you need to go deeper:

To crack that shell around her, you must first not care about the shell. You must be fearless. If it helps, assume you will fail every time with her, so you go into it as a sunk cost - nothing to be afraid of there.

Now that you assume you won’t crack the shell, instead of being a dancing monkey clown, what is your energy? What would you do naturally to make light of the situation WITH her (not significantly at her expense)? Let that energy pour out from you. Breathe it deeply.

Remember the importance of using your body. Touch her, smile genuinely, open her up (e.g, literally take her by the hands and open up together) and FEEL through her. That’s where you are failing, you are not using your body to open her and not feeling through her. You are using words not actions because you are afraid.

She wants empathy. She wants to know you can relate to her and be the strong masculine force she can rely on to be present during the storm. Stand fearless and loving in the face of her darkness and be that timeless, invincible force of love for the world and for yourself.

You are the sun, she is the earth. Storms on the earth don’t affect the sun. The earth continues to spin like crazy while ORBITING the sun, as it should be. The sun provides the warmth and gravity for the earth to function, regardless of the weather.

If a woman’s mind explodes in chaos, the sun remains, as it was before - loving, warm, powerful and unaffected.

[–]FoxShitNasty831 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

That is really deep and I get where you are coming from. I will read this again and again.

Now that you assume you won’t crack the shell, instead of being a dancing monkey clown, what is your energy? What would you do naturally to make light of the situation WITH her (not significantly at her expense)? Let that energy pour out from you. Breathe it deeply.

You are right, I operate from fear and anxiety. I don't have positive masculine energy. This is something I need to feel and cultivate. I will mull this over and report back in oys.

[–]ellifino0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is good. A lot of guys here stop at STFU. That only works for so long in a relationship before it starts to get autistic.

This is the next level, and what frame looks like.

[–]so_woke_da_wookie0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Ok, you've got something i am missing u/PillUpAss:

Do you feel your own positive masculine energy as you provide humor or is this coming off as try-hard and annoying?

I don't feel my masculine energy. I feel dissipated, like I am giving into her mood, rewarding her for bad behaviour.

To be precise, I feel de-energised by her moods, resentful of them.

[–]PillUpAss2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You’re wasting the opportunity then. Embrace her bad moods for what they are: your challenge and your opportunity to grow.

[–]so_woke_da_wookie1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is challenging. Needed to read this.

[–]UnbreakableFrame0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for this. I read that book over a year ago and forgot a lot of it.

[–]Non_Merger0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Have not read WOTSM yet so may be missing some context. Where do you strike the balance of "NMMNG Fixing Behavior" and "WOTSM dealing with her moods"?

Creatively dealing with bitchy behavior by serving her and loving her sounds a lot like trying to fix someone else's problem (on the surface).

[–]PillUpAss1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You are gifting because YOU want to. You give the gift of your humor, stability and deep masculine presence freely. It is not to fix her, it is to take on her subconscious challenge to fix you.

If you are in the right head space, giving freely and she cannot accept your gifts for an extended period of time, you may be with the wrong woman. That’s far down the road from where you probably are.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

you ever have that dream where you are chasing something but just cant quite catch it? That's your wife. Next time she moves to the guest room redecorate the master to your tastes. She complains? Remind her it is your room.

[–]Over60_FireTempered3Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Move in a twin bed...

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando20 points21 points  (6 children) | Copy

Please help me see what I'm doing wrong

Your lifts prove that you are physically weak.

Your posts prove that your frame is shit - ie., mentally weak.

Your wife moved out of your bedroom about six months ago. Despite that, you decided it was a good idea to buy a new family home, in the hope that she'd move back into your bed.

She previously indicated that she would move back to the master bed once we move to the new house

You bought the new family home recently and allowed your wife to set up her own room in it as a place to enjoy the fruits of your labour without having to actually interact with you in any shape or form.

Until recently, she worked for you but didn't contribute anything financially. In fact, she save her money in an account that you have no access to and spends your money from a joint account that you allow her access to.

Then - on a continual basis - you cave to her demands just to get her back into your bed, placating her in the vain hope of getting some pussy.

She has zero respect for you and you allow her to shit all over you on a daily basis in the brand new house that you paid for. Despite that, you bend over to your wife on a daily basis so she can fuck you up the ass, then you reset each morning and try and wangle some hugs and affection from her.

You are a doormat, a Beta Bucks, a Nice Guy, you live your life embedded with covert contracts, you don't know how to say 'no' and you have no plan or idea in your head about how to get what you want in life. I doubt you even know what you want beyond.. 'I want Mammy to be nice to me and come back in my bed".

The question you are asking is 'what am I doing wrong?'

The answer is fucking simple... pretty much everything.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (5 children) | Copy

Your wife moved out of your bedroom about six months ago. Despite that, you decided it was a good idea to buy a new family home, in the hope that she'd move back into your bed.

OP is rewarding bad behavior and also giving it attention. The more she acts up, the more he continues to give her attention. I did the same thing and it was because I was trying to save my marriage instead of focusing on becoming a man of value. It's all wrapped up in fear and ego. To save your marriage you must be willing to lose it. In fact, being willing and even desiring to kill it gives you the frame you need. The fact that he didn't divorce her AND bought her a new home shows her that he is her little faggot. The amount of resources it would take to build a frame in this situation seems like a bad choice. The hole was pretty deep but I think he dug it even deeper with the new house. Its hard to get out of a hole when its deep but its even harder when there is a little asian woman throwing the dirt back in on top of you.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

If you ain't ready to burn it all down, you ain't ready.

[–]JoeBuckYourslf0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Abso-fucking-lutely

[–]FoxShitNasty834 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

I did the same thing and it was because I was trying to save my marriage instead of focusing on becoming a man of value. It's all wrapped up in fear and ego. To save your marriage you must be willing to lose it. In fact, being willing and even desiring to kill it gives you the frame you need.

Thanks I needed to hear this

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Crazy that we hear the same truth over and over and fail to internalize. We can give mental assent but deny the truth as been internalized by our actions. Upon hearing the same truth for the 100th time it clicks. Such is life. Go get em fox.

[–]FoxShitNasty831 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Absolutely, it's only since being challenged here by dropping my comfort seeking behaviours that I realized through the onslaught of deep anxiety that I realise this same fear. Yes it's fucking uncomfortable but essential for personal growth. Embracing it

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

This probably won’t be read much or upvoted much since I’m late to it (4 hours is an eternity in AMRP time). I’ve been at this for years, so naturally I’m not usually a first poster on here anymore . That’s the way it should be if you are progressing in MRP.

it appears you like to complicate the fuck out of this. That’s okay and pretty normal for how new you are to this.

These are your main problems

  • You gave way too many fucks about what she thinks, and that’s why you are living in her frame

  • You’ve gone Rambo - You need to start very light , and stick mostly with STFU. She shouldn’t even notice much change.

Evidence:

She says she doesn't like this new me, that I used to be nice and caring and now I'm selfish, and that whatever I'm doing is making things worse.

  • You are fighting with her like 2 pigs in mud - this is because other bullet points above (You give too many fucks and have no frame). Solution- STFU. Leave for a while if needed, but don’t go out in a huff. That will make it even worse and you will look even weaker.

  • You need more patience - after being beta bux for 10 years, don’t expect to turn the ship around for at least a couple years. You might start seeing some progress after a year, but that’s just the start.

She has lost respect for you - that’s obvious, and honestly, I don’t blame her. You live in her frame.

The good news is you are starting to see a little dread from your lifting efforts- definitely not from your frame. Use this, and provide a little comfort. Don’t go overboard with the comfort though- that’s the old beta way. Instead, A&A it or giver her a little hug and STFU.

Example -

Her:”I saw you totally flirting with the girl.”

The old you) :“No, actually she approached me, and blah blah blah DEER DEER DEER...).

The new you: “Yeah, You missed the part where we totally fucked on the grocery store floor in front of everybody.”

Only do the A&A when you have enough frame and respect. Stick mostly to STFU for now.

[–]creating_my_life8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

You still don't understand a tiny bit about what MRP tries to communicate, do you?

EVERYTHING it says is to be a high-value, high-quality man. Life a quality life on your own terms. Do not life your life for your wife. Life your life for you.

Everything about your post is "my wife this, and my wife that." The idea is to take care of yourself FIRST--just like oxygen masks on planes. You can't help anyone else until you save yourself.

Do you understand this?

[–]FoxShitNasty839 points10 points  (32 children) | Copy

Breath..... What is your height and lifts?

I try to provide comfort and end up caving to some of her demands to restore the peace

Demands? Need more context around this. Don't negotiate with sex witholding terrorists.

Also genuine question: is your wife bat shit crazy?

Why are you hanging around to argue... Wife:"You don't do X and I hate you" You:"you have great tits!"

P.s this is all your fault

[–]JoeBuckYourslf3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

“It’s my fault” would be some good flair, if it fits

[–]MightBeNiceGuy[S] -3 points-2 points  (30 children) | Copy

What is your height and lifts?

5'8" BP: 155, DL: 185, SQ: not sure right now haven't done a max effort

Demands? Need more context around this.

For example last time she demanded that I share the passcode to my phone, claiming she can't trust me if she thinks I'm hiding something. Another time she wanted to book a solo trip to visit a girl friend. I gave her airline miles and permission to go.

is your wife bat shit crazy?

I think that sometimes. Based on reading everyone else's stories here, I think she reacts differently than AWALT. I have no way to diagnose "bat shit crazy" though so how do I know? Other ppl have told me that they think she's on the NPD spectrum.

Why are you hanging around to argue

Good question. I guess after weeks of living with the ice queen, any warm air feels a little refreshing.

[–]arm_candy5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

For example last time she demanded that I share the passcode to my phone, claiming she can't trust me if she thinks I'm hiding something. Another time she wanted to book a solo trip to visit a girl friend. I gave her airline miles and permission to go.

Do you want her to have your passcode? If so, you shouldn’t care. If not, you shouldn’t share it. In either case the problem is that you care about her feelings rather that your choice.

Why were trying to prevent the trip in the first place? Mate guarding?

I think that sometimes. Based on reading everyone else's stories here, I think she reacts differently than AWALT. I have no way to diagnose "bat shit crazy" though so how do I know? Other ppl have told me that they think she's on the NPD spectrum.

Sounds to me like she is more manipulative and childish than average, but mostly that her husband is a weak bitch.

Good question. I guess after weeks of living with the ice queen, any warm air feels a little refreshing.

Because you’re desperate for her approval. Her choice to be an ice queen shouldn’t affect your actions.

[–]MightBeNiceGuy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Why were trying to prevent the trip in the first place? Mate guarding?

Nope, I was never trying to prevent the trip. She was in one of her withdrawn roommate phases when she planned this trip and bitchily demanded that I transfer her the airline miles. I said no your attitude sucks lately, try again when I like you better.

Because you’re desperate for her approval.

Yeah, so true.

[–]FoxShitNasty834 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy

From mmslp

"Generally with someone who is Batshit Crazy, you don't even really have a chance to really do The MAP, as you’re too busy coping with them being in one of the five stages of being Batshit Crazy:

Phase 1 - Threatening to be Batshit Crazy.

Phase 2 - Acute Crisis: Actually doing something Batshit Crazy.

Phase 3 - Recovering from the effects of being Batshit Crazy.

Phase 4 - Being really nice to you.

Phase 5 - Suddenly realizing that you are an asshole for not meeting their demands in Phase 1

This cycle repeats endlessly and Ten Second Kisses, sexy text messages, flirting, cooking dinner and playfully fondling her in the shower will not work on someone who is like this. You can try and be the Captain all you like, but if the First Officer tries to smack you with a hammer, it’s time to stop the madness."

And this

Well if you are doing something Alpha, this threatens them, so it triggers an acute episode of being Batshit Crazy. This will look like a Fitness Test, but it's not a Fitness Test, it's just them being Batshit Crazy. In a Fitness Test there is some sort of subconscious plan being run by her Body Agenda, to test to see if you can respond to her with appropriate dominance. When someone is formally diagnosed as being Batshit Crazy and is having an acute episode of behavior, they aren't caring whether or not you pass their test; they are just being Batshit Crazy.

[–]MightBeNiceGuy[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

Yeah I remember reading this and thinking "yep, sounds a bit like my life". However this still doesn't define "Batshit Crazy" and I'm having trouble drawing a clear line between that and AWALT.

[–]FoxShitNasty832 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

I guess it's time to write a map, follow the plan and see what happens. Race you to 160lbs? Rule: No more than 1lb a week or your a cheating fat cunt!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

One pound per week is a good guideline for weight loss, but is totally unrealistic for muscle gain, especially if the guy isn't "enhanced". Unless you are calculating your TDEE, and strictly measuring calories, it's hard to know how much weight gain is muscle and how much is fat. I would advise to go slow, make sure your strength numbers (lifts) are going up. If the lift numbers are going up, your muscularity is increasing. If your pants start getting tight in the waist, you might want to back off the calories.

[–]arm_candy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

1lb/week is a terrible guideline for weight loss unless you’re already below 9%. For typical people, 2lb/week is entirely reasonable and for overweight people, even higher is appropriate.

1lb/week is reasonable-ish for weight gain for newbies. Most people will gain a decent bit of fat on a 1lb/week bulk, but not a ridiculous amount. I personally think about 0.5lb/week is likely a better target for most, but 1lb/week isn’t crazy and it’s fairly common guidance.

Calculating your TDEE and measuring calories also tells you absolutely nothing about how much of your mass gain is lean. All that tells you is if you’re in a caloric surplus, and the bathroom scale is more reliable for that anyway.

[–]FoxShitNasty830 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Half a pound wasn't working for me but a pound seems to be helping as only starting to make gains on the bar

[–]mrpthrowa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

FYI your woman is batshit crazy. Hope this helps.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The amount of wives who are batshit crazy is very very small.

I thought my wife was - it gave me the excuse for everything going to shit in my marriage. Once I legitimately stopped being a faggot - look at that she wasn’t crazy after all.

Sleeping in the guest bedroom and the other shit OP posted is not bat shit crazy. It makes complete sense what she is doing and why she is doing it once you see it.

[–]creating_my_life2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

What is your height and lifts? 5'8" BP: 155, DL: 185, SQ: not sure right now haven't done a max effort

How much do you weigh? Take your shirt off and look in a mirror.

Of the pictures of the guys here, which guy do you look most like? https://www.builtlean.com/2012/09/24/body-fat-percentage-men-women/

[–]MightBeNiceGuy[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

somewhere in between the 15% and 20% photo.

I posted in detail about my BF in last OYS.

edit: weight 151lb

[–]creating_my_life1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

So you're not a fat fuck like most guys. But, you are small. Both in muscles and size. Honestly, though, you're not fat fuck. Don't get fat, and keep lifting. Pick a good program, lift heavy, eat big, and GROW. You need more mass. If you dare, post a shirtless photo of yourself (faceless, too), and we can all see.

How tall is your wife? How fit is she?

Anyways, you have an "average" build. That's good news. That means the rest of what you can fix is in your head and you can just do it.

[–]MightBeNiceGuy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

lift heavy, eat big, and GROW

Yep. started getting more serious about this in the last month. Already up a couple pounds.

How tall is your wife? How fit is she?

5'4" and skinny, ~110lbs. she's not super fit, but genetically very slender and looks good

the rest of what you can fix is in your head and you can just do it

This is way easier said than done. I may need a coach or someone real to talk to who gets this stuff because I feel like I'm in my own head all the time.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

When you are ready the ice queens wind won't be felt and you will be comfortable becsuse you have your own internal warmth. The icey air coming your direction won't be be noticed. Soon, your warmth will be strong enough to melt her and turn her warm.

I was able to jump this gap by cheating. It helped me realize I can do better. I don't need her and then I didn't even want her. Now she has done a 180. This is a note I got this morning.

"Dear Daddy, I deeply regret not allowing you to love me. I was too broken to receive your love and affection. Sadly it was the only thing I ever wanted. I love you forever. Fighting for us still. Your wife. "

Just a month ago I told her she didn't deserve my gifts anymore and she called me a faggot. You have to be willing to burn it down. Subsequently you must be a man of value or it won't matter.

Are you a man of value? Do you have the balls to leave and do better?

[–]MightBeNiceGuy[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Well said, thanks for this. I am definitely making progress on my mentality and value, but I'm not there yet. The oneitis is getting weaker, but to be honest I'm still drawn in to her and find myself still seeking her approval/validation. I hope to get to where you are in the next ~6mo.

btw does she really call you Daddy?

[–]FoxShitNasty831 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

She turns 9 next year, he is a sick man ;)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Everyone in my house calls me Daddy. I rarely hear my real name at home. She also refers to me as King or King Last Name.

You should get on TRT and get fucking swole. Start hitting bars and practicing game. Pretend in your mind that you already served her papers and are leaving the marriage.

Do you have any concerns she might divorce you? I don't so I can do whatever I want without much concern. I came home at 4am recently. She was awake waiting for me and cried but was just happy I was home. No fallout even though I was at a random womans apartment smoking blunts. If I slept in a different room it would be a punishment to her. If I moved out, it would be a punishment. Divorcing me would only punish her as she has nothing without me. Again, it it all comes down to frame and it sounds like yours is still very weak.

[–]MightBeNiceGuy[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Oh yes, she's threatened/asked for divorce a bunch of times. I think part of her wants to divorce, part of her is trying to make me divorce her first, but another part of her is scared and ashamed. Not sure which part will win.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My wife did the same. It's fear and control. I called her bluff.

[–]AlohaMaui8081 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

What is your current weight and BF

Unless "other people" are psychology related MD's, their opinion on this means jack shit. She is AWALT. she is reacting to you and your low value piss poor beta "leadership". She is filling the container you have created for her. End of story.

[–]MightBeNiceGuy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

151lb, body fat ~16% probably best guess. I posted about it in last OYS.

[–]RedPillGlasses2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

Nah, some bitches are just crazy.

He could be a bomb ass man, and she could still be a fucking whack job.

[–]AlohaMaui8081 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

While in general this is true, based on the fact he is not currently a High Value Man, I highly doubt it's because she is crazy. He hasn't had her diagnosed. Dont encourage him to make excuses and blame others for his failings as a man and leader in his own home.

[–]RedPillGlasses1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

But it makes his feelz better

[–]RoccoPinkman0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Sounds like my LTR. Can’t see the wood for the trees, we are doing great and I’m great, better than 80% of men I know, but for some reason she still gets depressed and complains about how things aren’t perfect.

[–]RedPillGlasses0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Agreed. I ABSOLUTELY get the premise of “fix the man”, and that’s USUALLY the case, but sometimes your first mate just sucks.

My ex wife was drinking 15 drinks a day and hitting the kids. Sure, it could have been all my fault. Or maybe she just sucked.

[–]RoccoPinkman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

100%.

[–]redditguy610 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Do. You. Know. The. Word. "No"?

[–]Smuggler-Tuek2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You are way too concerned with what she’s doing and how she responds. It controls your entire life. Read the entire sidebar (again if you already have) and focus on WISNIFG. Also your reactions are shit. Stop reacting. She’s a child who can go be moody in another room if she wants. Her presence should have no bearing on your emotional state.

[–]Over60_FireTempered3Red Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The last couple cycles of this I try to provide comfort and end up caving to some of her demands to restore the peace. She comes back to the bedroom, we fuck once or twice, until the whole cycle repeats again after a few weeks of sexual denials and ramping up withdrawal of attention & dread.

She sees that you will cave in. You keep proving to her. She's not crazy and neither are you. So here's a plan:

Start over on the side bar. Try to find a way to stop proving to her that she's in charge.

You've gone too far now, not be able to figure this one out.

It's that simple.

[–]SepeanRed Beret3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

The last couple cycles of this I try to provide comfort and end up caving to some of her demands to restore the peace. She comes back to the bedroom, we fuck once or twice, until the whole cycle repeats again after a few weeks of sexual denials and ramping up withdrawal of attention & dread.

Please help me see what I'm doing wrong and how I can break out of this loop.

She’s being shitty, and instead of STFU, A&A and AM, you give her comfort. You should hold frame, but cave to her demands.

Re-read the sidebar and start fucking doing it. This half-assed approach you’re taking won’t work. If you were to take a pilot license, you think that would work if you only followed 1/3rd of the instructions?

Stop listening to your wife. Stop taking her demands seriously. Everything she says is to test you for fuckability. It is not reflecting of what she wants, on the contrary.

[–]RedPillGlasses1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Agreed. Sometimes going Rambo is the best way.

[–]hack3geRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

For once we agree - I’d rather a guy burn his shit to the ground and go Rambo then do nothing - especially when a wife is acting like this.

[–]SepeanRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

None of what I wrote is going rambo.

[–]arm_candy5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

You can’t break the pattern if you don’t see it.

The pattern that keeps repeating is that I take steps to lead my own life and my family ... end up caving to some of her demands to restore the peace.

The piece you’re missing is that you’re continually caving, reinforcing her shit behavior and confirming to her that she still has all the power in your relationship.

You need to stop caving to her. Providing comfort doesn’t mean acting like a weak bitch. You mention “ramping up dread”. Why is it “ramping down”? Just because she fucks you a couple of times? Because she moves out the guest room?

You need to build your life, invite her along, and understand she simply might not come. And that’s fine. But your desperation for her approval is obvious and unattractive. Nothing you’re doing is authentic because you’re doing it for her.

[–]AlohaMaui8082 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

I feel like I'm not making progress here and looking for some insight.

I wonder why vvv

The last couple cycles of this I try to provide comfort and end up caving to some of her demands to restore the peace. She comes back to the bedroom, we fuck once or twice, until the whole cycle repeats again after a few weeks of sexual denials and ramping up withdrawal of attention & dread.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result

We become roommates at that point

You've been roommates for a long time. You are just the one who's been too fucking head-up-ass to realize it. You need to start accepting that your wife is AWALT, and she's reacting to you being a Beta faggot (you still are, by massively failing her guest room shit tests)

sometimes make her a coffee

Stop doing her favors when she's literally "at war" with you. We want to encourage good behavior in her, not shitty behavior, remember??? The rest of your reset is fine, as long as internally your motivation for hugging her is "I want to hug her because it's what I want and has nothing to do with my obvious need to avoid conflict and end her manipulative behavior" - So for you, it doesn't pass the smell check. No more hugs until you have that kind of internal perspective. Which most likely won't come about while you're still participating in this idiotic cycle. And make no mistake, you are participating, and your Beta behavior is the primary cause of it continuing endlessly.

I can feel the anger and resentment in the air.

Get used to this. There's no way around it. Go through an anger phase, mourn your marriage, figure out that this is your reality, whether she's pity fucking you or being nice because you've caved, or not. SHE is literally training YOU right now, and you're too fucking dumb to see it. But this is where you live now if you actually want to stop being a pussy and MRP your life out of the shit you've built with her. She's going to be angry at you, and she (in her mind) has every right to be. Don't argue about that. It doesn't matter. You're doing this for you, remember??? (That doesn't pass the smell check either, but whatever, keep dancing until it becomes true, monkey faggot)

I get the kids to bed

Why is this always your job? Just curious.

If I try to approach her room she'll yell at me to leave claiming that it's her space.

Stop trying to approach her room, faggot. Ignore her shitty behavior. You've been given a gift, suddenly you have at least 2 uninterrupted hours every night to focus on you, read the sidebar and books, go to the gym, whatever.

brings up shit from 9 years ago when I was very weak

At some point you're going to have to call her on her bullshit here and tell her that she needs to stop bringing up 9 years ago. (Was it cheating? If so, that may change this advice)

Started lifting and exercising and am in best shape now since married.

This means literally nothing. Post height weight BF and lifts or gtfoh with this "best shape" BS. Also unless you're under 12% BF and have muscle mass, this means nothing for your SMV. Absolutely Nothing. Keep doing the work, because you've only just begun to begin...

[–]MightBeNiceGuy[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

At some point you're going to have to call her on her bullshit here and tell her that she needs to stop bringing up 9 years ago. (Was it cheating? If so, that may change this advice)

Never cheated. she resents me for not protecting her from a friend of mine who was a jerk to her when we were engaged/first-married. Also she blames me for a sexual assault by a creep male massage therapist who touched her inappropriately, and I was too weak (conflict avoider) to properly handle it.

[–]AlohaMaui80811 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

So shes expecting you to take responsibility for her unresolved feelings. (Yes you should have been the man in both those situations. No don't tell her you're changing etc etc DEER DEER DEER.) You're not there yet to tell her to stop bringing it up. Just STFU for now and when she retreats don't engage. Remove your time and attention. Don't encourage the shitty behavior. Now if during her retreat in the morning say she hugs you back, or greets you in the evening, act like all is normal and have friendly fun talks and time. If she ignores you, you're still fun, just without her, focused on the kids. Make sure it's something active like a game outside or a board game or wrestling in the living room, not sitting around watching tv or movie or playing video games. Ignore her. Chances are she will either sulk or she will come join in. I've already just said what to do in either case. If she brings it up later, "you're ignoring me!" That's an example of an opening for Negative Inquiry:

"I don't understand, what's wrong with playing with the kids?" Her: "nothing, but you didn't include me at all tonight" you: (fogging) "I can see how you might have felt that way." (Neg Assertion) "It's true that I didn't directly invite you to play with us." (Neg Inq) "what's wrong with just me playing with the kids though?"

At this point she will either repeat herself, hoping you will cave and agree to invite her next time, (in this case Don't Do That, just Broken Record your Neg Inq until you decide to end the conversation and do something more productive) or she will go overt and talk about disrespect, ignoring her, etc etc like you already described. (In this case you have the opportunity to set a boundary/expectation: "When I come home and greet you, and you ignore me completely, I'm going to assume you need space. I'm going to give you that space and go about my night. If you want me to include you in things I am doing, you will need to treat me like a person." After that statement she will most likely shit test the fuck out of you, my advice is to ONLY leave. Go to the gym. Because you aren't ready for all the shit she will throw at you in your current state. Set the expectation and then let her hamster run.

Anyway her elaborate shit test makes a lot more sense knowing that background info. You're a conflict avoider, so she keeps testing to see if you are still avoiding conflict with even her, and you are.

I'm not telling you to go argue with her, enter "her safe space" against her will, or any of that btw. That's a decision you have to figure out what will work best for you. But she's going to keep creating conflict until you're able to assert yourself in a non-aggressive manner. Read WISNIFG until your eyes bleed. Practice fogging, Neg Ass, Neg Inq at work, in social situations, with your parents, etc until it becomes natural and you can start using it with your wife naturally. In your original post, there were tons of areas where proper use of fogging, neg ass, neg inq could have helped you de-escalate the situation and invite her into your frame (you don't really have frame yet, I'm being generous). Be very careful that your fogging/ass./inq. doesn't spill into DEERing, you seem like you'd be susceptible to that. It's a fine line especially when you barely understand what the skills are actually meant to do. Later with practice the difference will be obvious, between validating her feelings without letting them affect your point of view or choices, and caving to them and doing what she wants or even caving and agreeing with her that your POV is somehow "wrong"

[–]SepeanRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your frame is weak so she finds stuff to hit you on the head with. If those two incidents hadn’t happened she’d be acting the same but using other stuff to justify it. If you alpha up, she’ll stop bitching about it.

[–]CryptoManbeard1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sometimes you get in a relationship with a woman because you're not acting right. Sometimes when you start acting right the relationship becomes untenable. Hard to tell beforehand, but it's why you focus on yourself and the mission and not the woman. Eventually when you're living right you won't mind if she chooses not to join you, and you won't tolerate toxic behavior.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well then disengage. Go out and have a good time. See some friends. Go grab a beer.

Oh and see a lawyer and prepare. Best $250 you’ll spend to know how that goes down.

Edit: I’m not saying threaten or throw the divorce card on the table. Just will put your mind at ease knowing how a divorce will go down. She said she doesn’t want to be your wife. You need to build up yourself and your life. At the same time - start preparing just in case.

She’s not acting like a wife - and certainly not someone you’d want to stay married to. So you do your own thing. Don’t go and do something stupid but try to think in your mind - “I don’t have a wife.”

Edit 2: you can also (if you have the frame) go pick your wife up and carry her to your bed.

[–]SorcererKingMod / Red Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Look, man, here's how it is. You are wobbling between "I'm a weak bitch and this is on me," and "She's fucking crazy and it's totally not me." Which is it? The way you painted it here it could be either, but the way you painted it is trying to lead us to conclude she's crazy and you're the victim.

If she really is crazy, then see a lawyer and plot your exit, because you can't fix crazy. You describe episodes of gas lighting here and manipulation. If that is the norm, get out.

If maybe you're being a paper tiger and sending mixed signals, then expect her to continue to try to 'realign' you with shit tests. No reason she shouldn't since that seems to work.

[–]rockstarsheep0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Everything takes time to change.

Don’t underestimate that you may have subconscious drives also in operation. Fear of loss, might be one of them. So, what scares you? I mean really terrifies you? Being alone? Abandonment? Disapproval?

If you don’t get to the root of the causes, then the symptoms are going to come back, again and again.

[–]FereallyRedHard Core Red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This whole post is all about her.

And you're not only tolerating, but rewarding bad behavior.

Back to the beginning. You missed a lot.

What are you trying to fix?

If you say her or the relationship then you need another vacation from here.

You're making so many basic errors here that I can't even be bothered to list them. Even if I did you still wouldn't understand because your grasp of the fundamental concepts of MRP is maligned.

Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

how I don't even communicate with her anymore.

Your wife is right. You're not communicating. You're pretending everything is A-OK when you're pissed she's sleeping in the guest room.

How have you communicated this to her?

All of what you wrote. ALL OF IT I have gone through with my wife.

And then fight begins where she screams at me that I'm punishing her, that everyone is trying to hurt her, she's holed up here to protect herself, that I don't respect her, that I'm not on her side, brings up shit from 9 years ago when I was very weak (yes mistakes were made). She says she doesn't like this new me, that I used to be nice and caring and now I'm selfish, and that whatever I'm doing is making things worse.

You need to start leading here instead of being a passive observer.

For me - these cycles became more intense and more frequent resulting in the near moving out and divorce (2x). You can avoid that by not being as stupid and autistic as I was.

[–]MightBeNiceGuy[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Thanks for this. I think what you're saying is that instead of pretending to DNGAF about her living in the guest room, I need to more overtly express my anger and expectations. When I tried this in the past I get gaslighted and frustrated and would end up caving because it just got too painful. Yes, my frame is weak.

Any aha moment that helped you to deal with that? I need something to get around her manipulation and stubbornness.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

“I don’t like when you sleep in the guest room, I expect my wife to sleep in the same bed as me”. Leave it at that.

The aha moment? Yeah... stop engaging her if she starts gaslighting, being disrespectful or you feel yourself getting angry / upset.

Remember you can only be manipulated if you let yourself be.

[–]MightBeNiceGuy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah I've done that and she'll be like "I don't care. I don't want to be your wife because of how you are now. I'll never sleep next to you."

Then it simmers like that for weeks. She doesn't feel the dread because I still have a weak frame, and basically I've let there be no consequence to her living in the guest room indefinitely.

[–]tspitsatgp0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Walking away is an option too.

After you’ve unfucked yourself to the extent that you can in your current setup,

[–]RStonePT0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Be slightly less invested in her, because you're living in a dream world

[–]throwawaybpdnpd0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Your wife has a mental health disorder.... most likely NPD (narcissistic personality disorder) or BPD (borderline personality disorder).

NPD and BPD women have to always feel in control otherwise they get a manic episode. Trying to build your frame here will not work

She checks MANY boxes... There is nothing you can get out of this relationship

If I were you I’d secretly lawyer up then run for the hills; be prepared for even worse coming

[–]MightBeNiceGuy[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Thanks for replying. Several others have told me that they think she's on the NPD spectrum, and I am aware that it's a possibility. Can you elaborate a little on "checks MANY boxes"? I'm unsure of the specific traits that I should be looking for.

The other possibility is that she really lost all trust/respect for me and any other man due to my past weakness and has morphed into a control freak to compensate.

[–]SepeanRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I’m not saying your wife isn’t BPD/NPD, but there’s a BPD crowd here who repeatedly have told me my wife is BPD even though she clearly isn’t.

Look into it, sure. But be very careful following the advice of anyone who says anything other than “sidebar and she’ll fuck you and respect you”. The guys who had BDP wives see them everywhere, the guys who divorced thinks you can’t avoid divorce, etc.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm in the same camp as you on this one. The number of dudes here who told me my wife is batshit crazy NPD and BPD is astounding. Turned out fine for me once I got a frame.

Turns out all she needed was a man who wasn't a gigantic faggot.

[–]creating_my_life0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Okay, there are 30 comments now. You had yet another puke, we all jumped over you saying "fix yourself".

What did you learn from this post and the replies?

What action are you going to take immediately to improve yourself?

What goal are you going to set for yourself?

BTW, I already encoded part of the answer here because I framed it in a "for you" kind of way. Otherwise you'd start puking again about "my wife blah blah blah." We don't give a fuck about your wife. We're asking about YOU.

[–]SoloQueueXL-2 points-1 points  (40 children) | Copy

Your marriage is done. If you pay all the bills take a step back and realize your power. Your kids aren’t babies anymore it’s time to be more selfish.

Continue with your daily life and work towards moving out and development of better mindsets for your kids.

It’s time to break the news to her that your marriage is done and time to get a divorce.

[–]MightBeNiceGuy[S] 2 points3 points  (39 children) | Copy

You may not be wrong. I don't know why the downvotes.

I promised myself I'd give my MAP at least a year before deciding to kill the puppy.

[–]creating_my_life2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Until you fix yourself the same thing will just happen with your next relationship. Fix you first.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret5 points6 points  (29 children) | Copy

He's getting downvotes because you haven't unfucked yourself and telling you to throw your hands up in the air and say "fuck it".

Do that, and you will likely repeat this all over again.

You couldn't divorce her if you tried to.

[–]hack3geRed Beret5 points6 points  (28 children) | Copy

Big issue here that no one is addressing is that his wife is 99.99999% fucking someone else.

She’s just struggling with leaving him for someone else because of the kids or isn’t sure the branch is sturdy. I fucking guarantee someone is balls deep in his wife.

This marriage is over - I have been there and even though I had what it takes to burn my shit to the ground in one fell swoop - it was the wrong choice and I should have just left.

OP would be wise to take the loss and chalk it up to being a giant faggot and learn from the experience.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (24 children) | Copy

This is quite an interesting dichotomy here.

his wife is 99.99999% fucking someone else

Yeah, no one is addressing that here. After reading back through this, I think you are right. It would explain the complete checked out actions which we know is a sure sign of this shit. I agree. It's also a 99.9999999% chance that OP is a faggot.

I have been there and even though I had what it takes to burn my shit to the ground in one fell swoop - it was the wrong choice and I should have just left.

You probably did. But you and I both know after seeing hundreds of men here with the same story as OP that he is nowhere near that level of DNGAF. You know it. I know it. Which is why you say just "chalk it up to being a gigantic faggot".

OP doesn't really know he's a faggot. He might think he is.

In fact, OP's story now that I think of it reminds me entirely of myself about 15 years ago. And yeah, I'm projecting a bit here but so the fuck what?

My ex-wife did the same shit, and yes, she was fucking lots of dudes without my knowledge. I began unfucking myself with NMMNG and other redpill type books back then (still unaware of her cheating) until one day the truth actually came to light nearly a year later. When I finally became aware of what happened I did burn it all down.

But as I look back now on my situation I realize that sticking in there trying to improve myself - and clearly as a dancing monkey at the time which we all do - I got to see some really, really awful shit about the way women can truly be. I got the see the full gamut of what a woman who you love, adore, protect and cherish can really do to a man that they supposedly "love". I had the ultimate sparring partner in that woman and learned so much from her that she actually helped me see and know what a gigantic faggot I had been.

Had i just said "fuck it", threw my hands up on the principle that it's "dead" and burned it down, I would have likely repeated the same mistakes in the future. *Sidenote* - I still did!

But my point remains the same. Sure, he can burn it down, but we both know he won't. We both know he can't even divorce her if he tried - especially without a mountain of proof that she's branch swinging which he doesn't have. So why not tell the guy to keep improving, unfucking himself, and developing a.... plan... that is agnostic of quitting the marriage or not? Ya know, the stay plan is the go plan.

Yeah, this is a lengthy reply that OP really doesn't deserve, but /u/hack3ge you and I see these guys all the time here. Same story every single time. But it's like, just my opinion dude, that if he would just STFU and watch this play out he'll get to see the true nature of women which will be a bigger shock to his system than any book he can read, and sometimes it's guys like this that need that the most to truly unfuck their brains and unplug from the matrix.

OP has been given a golden opportunity to watch the true nature of women play out - especially if she is fucking someone else. That experience alone is worth it's weight in gold because of how fucked up OP's brain actually is from what I can tell. But, anyways - he could burn it all down maybe. I doubt it though. But i guarantee if he does burn it all down he'll never unfuck himself. Guarantee.

Next thing you know he'll be knee deep in pussy validation like 99.999999% of men. Hell, we just saw apost about that here the other day.

He can stay or go, doesn't matter to me. But I think he has a better chance of unfucking his entire life if he gets to really see what we all know to be true and it melts his little snowflake like the devil himself came and made his life hell on earth.

And if we're both wrong, and she's just a cold hearted bitch and not fucking someone else - well, he'll see that too. Either way he wins. Or maybe she turns the corner when he isn't a faggot, she wasn't fucking Chad, and he gets to make the decision of what he wants in the future for the first time in his life.

Either way the stay plan is the go plan.

[–]MightBeNiceGuy[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Great reply, thanks.

I'm very certain that she's not fucking anyone. You're right about the rest of it though, I've been weak and continually caving to her. She knows that withholding sex wears me down and eventually she wins. I can't let this continue to happen.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm very certain that she's not fucking anyone.

Yeah bro, I said that too. And so have hundreds of other men here. It doesn't matter either way, just do you.

Best of luck.

[–]hack3geRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The ability for a beta male to sweep the obvious under the rug is still jarring to me even now - I at least knew deep down something wasn’t right even if I never got proof.

[–]hack3geRed Beret0 points1 point  (20 children) | Copy

Way more than OP deserved - I can’t argue with you because I made the same decision but in retrospect it was the wrong one...

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (19 children) | Copy

It's all a means to an end. You'll never really know if it was what you needed. Just my opinion that no decision is ever the wrong one because it takes us to where we are now.

My point is I think he would learn the most with developing his stay/go plan and executing rather than running.

[–]hack3geRed Beret0 points1 point  (18 children) | Copy

It really depends - the risk is he gets sucked back in and then is stuck in a giant conundrum.

I may be projecting too - I know that I should have left my wife but right now it’s hard to walk away from a woman who does things like comes down stairs in santa lingerie and a santa hat and fucking gags on my cock while I’m sitting on the couch for no other reason than because she thought I would enjoy it.

I do agree that the stay/go plan makes sense because most men can’t assess honestly their level of faggotry. It’s an area I’m not convinced we have a good solution for because when she does turn the corner it becomes harder to leave even if you know you should.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (17 children) | Copy

she does turn the corner it becomes harder to leave even if you know you should.

Meh. Coulda, woulda, shoulda. I mean, i get it - the ego of getting cucked is pretty fucking terrible. Probably not something I would want to try and tackle if I knew for a fact. It also is a display of low character from a woman (but hypergamy wins, right?). I haven't been in that situation, so I can't really tell you what I'd do. But, you can't either. It's all speculation, bro.

So - I just look at it like "whatever's clever".

You do you. Your happiness is all that matters.

[–]hack3geRed Beret0 points1 point  (16 children) | Copy

For sure about your happiness - the risk is if you bullshit yourself and just take the easy way out yet hamster it as just being happy.

Plus everyone’s situation is different like you say - I have some serious desire for strange because I was always just a beta faggot and feel like I missed out and would like to see what I could do now. I know I project that onto others.

My issue is I know if I fuck someone else there’s no coming back from it for me - so I still have some tough decisions to make.

[–]MightBeNiceGuy[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I appreciate the reply, but I am totally certain that she's not fucking anyone. I don't need to go into how I know this, but I do.

[–]tspitsatgp0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Uhuh. I am not saying she is, but you’d be shocked as to what they do to get the dick once an affair starts.

[–]hack3geRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Hahah I love it when guys say this shit - you don’t know crap faggot. She could be banging someone on her lunch break in the back of her car and you would have no idea.

She’s throwing all kinds of red flags and you are acting like a full on fucking retard.

All you are worried about is her and your relationship - at what point are you going to realize she’s fucking irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Like I said you don’t have what it takes to turn shit around on a dime - most men don’t so it’s understandable.

I told my wife I had no desire to be with a woman who was acting like she didn’t want to be with me and that she clearly wanted a divorce and I was giving it to her. The issue with this is you have to mean it and you sure as shit better hold frame for the rest of your fucking life or she will know it’s bullshit.

I have absolutely no need for any one woman in my life - I could walk out the door in the morning and be fucking a handful of chicks by the end of the week. Why the fuck would I waste my time on a woman who sleeps in another room, isn’t sexy and submissive and doesn’t drop to her knees when I tell her to suck my cock?

[–]arm_candy2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

The downvotes are because this guy doesn’t know shit. You’re clearly still a loser. You could cut the cord on this and move on, but the fact remains that you’re the problem. You won’t know if you could save your marriage until you fix yourself. And at that point you should be fine with either outcome.

[–]Chump_No_More2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is the correct answer.

Most people do not understand the meaning of, "No matter where you go, there you are."

[–]SoloQueueXL0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She’s been unhappy for years you can’t fix years of problems in one year. Bite the bullet my friend I did also. It’s hard trust me

[–]AlohaMaui808-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

Don't listen to this idiot. He still wastes his life playing video games and posting about them on the internet. That's why he has the downvotes, because his advice is incomplete and shit

[–]bowhunter60 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Not necessarily. Granted, the guy still has a ways to go before he decides to kick her to the curb, but I’m not convinced that after so many years you can come back from the amount of disrespect he’s chosen to allow in his home. Sometimes you’re never gonna be seen as the alpha by certain bitches, especially starting out as he has, and you gotta eat a shit sandwich and cut your losses. Dude needs to make a shrewd cost/benefit analysis in about 6-9 months and reevaluate.

[–]AlohaMaui8083 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

I agree completely, but that's not what that guy said, is it? As I said, his advice is incomplete.

It’s time to break the news to her that your marriage is done and time to get a divorce.

That's what he said. And its premature to do so.

OP will just end up in the same place 10 years from now. Better to do exactly what you and I agree on - better himself, and as RStone says, let FutureOP decide later in his MAP

[–]so_woke_da_wookie2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think this is definitely the most practical and strategic approach.

OP has confessed that he, like many of us, pulled some Rambo. Future OP will have greater clarity further a long.

[–]so_woke_da_wookie-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Do that. Give yourself a year. But in mean time...remember you’re here to fix yourself not your marriage.

You are still too invested in this marriage.

Now that you’ve got a second car and an office outside the house, put some money aside so that if your wife tries some shit, you’ve a bit of emergency cash.

As you do this you’ll observe your over investment & resentment SLOWLY diminish. Build yourself an emergency option and you’ll start to see the man you’ll be when you have a real option.

Stop trying to save your wife from the consequence of being a cunt.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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