Indecisiveness in Women

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August 20, 2015

Summary - Women are indecisive because they've already made the decision that matters to them.

Body - I used to get pissed off by women's lack of decisiveness (circa my 18-21 blue pill days).

Her: I'm hungry, what should we get for dinner?

Me: Well what kind of food do you feel like?

Her: I don't know...

Me: You're hungry for dinner but don't know what you want to eat? WTF?

When I graduated college, I simply came to terms with it--telling myself women can't help it--and just started making all the decision on dates or in relationships.

Red Pill 101 teaches us that this is a two-fold strategy: first, it's a fitness test for us as the pack leader. Do you want to make the decision and stand by it/defend it? Or would you rather sit there with a thumb up your ass and try to talk through it like women deciding what shoes go best with a dress. The second part of the strategy is to distance themselves from responsibility: if you pick a restaurant and it sucks, it can't possibly be her fault.

I was working under this framework for the better part of a decade, but then a Red Piller in disguise dropped some serious knowledge on me and made me re-evaluate.

A little background: I work in a sales role working with affluent and high net worth clients for one of the big financial firms. One of my clients is an extremely specialized physician making boat loads of money.

He's currently settling a fairly large estate, and there are a few sisters that he must distribute to. Think of it as a feline/hamster civil war.

While incredibly intelligent, he comes off a little sheepish but is handling this settlement like a fucking boss. We were having a casual conversation about life, money, and the fact that he was named to settle the trust by the deceased specifically because women are A) catty and will fuck each other over and B) cannot make a decision and stand by it.

I, of course, attribute this to their biology and lack of accountability. They can't help but not make decisions. I bring up the "Where should we eat?" example.

And, always the deep thinker, he pauses for a moment and then drops this gem on me:

"Well, legedu, it's true that they have a hard time deciding a lot of things, but the "What's for dinner?" example shows something else. In her mind, she's ALREADY MADE her decision: she chose you. That was a difficult decision for her, and now she feels she doesn't need to make any more. That's your job."

Mind fucking blown.

Take Away - When a woman chooses you--whether it be for the night, for a month, or for life--that's it. She has made her decision, and her biology will tell her to stick to her decision unless you give her reason not to. You are the pack leader and the shot caller unless you give her reason to feel otherwise.

Post Information
Title Indecisiveness in Women
Author legedu
Upvotes 818
Comments 134
Date 20 August 2015 02:51 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Original Link
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Red Pill terms found in post:
hamsterthe red pillthe blue pill

[–]sevans10527 points28 points  (2 children) | Copy

I have a 4 year old. Asking open ended questions with her is a sure fire way to a headache. Offering a you want the red blocks or the blue blocks? Is a MUCH better question to ask than What do you want to play with?

On that line, don't ask your partner where/what she wants for dinner, try offering two acceptable choices. Rather than What do you want for dinner? Try, do you want Mexican or Sushi for dinner? Instead of a whole world of choices, limit it to two...maybe three at most. She feels involved, you limit the frustration.

Worth a try.

[–]Totsean0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That usually works. I tend to narrow it down to select places unless she knows of some better place.

[–]JackGoldsteinWrites230 points231 points  (20 children) | Copy

They care about different things. A girl will make major decisions quite easily about what house to buy, how to paint rooms, etc. This is the instinct to build a nest.

Your job is to bring back food. "Where do you want to eat" is 2015's "What do you want me to hunt?". Imagine the absurdity of that question 5000 yrs ago. Well it's just as absurd today.

[–]evileddy159 points160 points  (8 children) | Copy

"What meat Uma want?"

"Uma not know.."

"Uma want boar meat?"

"nah.. had that last week"

"Uma want deer meat?"

"nah.. Uma had that last night"

"Uma want monkey meat?"

"nah.. Uma have to sit in bush all day after monkey meat"

"Uma want salad?"

"What kind of salad?"

"....meat salad"

[–]billcosbyeatsbabies95 points96 points  (3 children) | Copy

Uma sounds like the kind of girl who's vagina is a meat salad

[–]aazav7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

who's vagina

Who is vagina? Who has vagina?

whose* vagina is a meat salad

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

all that meat prolly made for some stanky oral

[–]tallwheel2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I imagined this being delivered by Uma Thurman.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Was expecting a sex joke somewhere in there.

[–]ghhhhk6 points7 points  (10 children) | Copy

I have to question everyone's assumptions here because I've seen guys be very indecisive about what to eat. Sometimes out of politeness/respect. Sometimes because they are picky. What we are doing by being dominant is we are shit testing the girl to see if she is submissive.

Don't turn a dinner place into an argument. If she's a dominant girl or insists some place is bad then listen to her.

Call it a hybrid theory. Dominate until she takes a stand and tries to dominate. Hold frame for weak attempts. But not if she's adamant that she hates Chinese food or Indian. Don't try to push her into a rage.

Only fight and hold frame for things you actually really really want.

[–]projectself7 points8 points  (7 children) | Copy


You take the lead, if she wants to follow she will. If she truly hates your dinner pick she will say something. She can offer an alternative, or you can choose again, or you can just do what you wanted in the first place.

Of course not every woman wants to be dominated. Only about 80% of women are feminine at their core. Only about 80% of men are masculine at their core.

When a man becomes more masculine, and is paired with a woman that is feminine, she will soften. She will follow the lead.

If you are battling a woman over dominance, you fucked up.

You picked a masculine woman, likely because you are a feminine man - you know, a picky eater, indecisive, polite, respectful.

[–]NightOfTheBlackSnow9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

You take the lead, if she wants to follow she will. If she truly hates your dinner pick she will say something. She can offer an alternative, or you can choose again, or you can just do what you wanted in the first place.

Nothing you said here contradicts the guy above. That's exactly what he said.

She will follow the lead.

Yeah but that doesn't mean human beings can't have disagreement on a dinner place.

If you are battling a woman over dominance, you fucked up. You picked a masculine woman, likely because you are a feminine man - you know, a picky eater, indecisive, polite, respectful.

That doesn't make much sense. Yes some women are more dominant. Yes some men are a bit more submissive. So what? How is it fucking up if it's a happy relationship?

You shouldn't be indecisive, picky, or feminine. You should take charge and lead as a man. That doesn't mean you fight over every little detail (which was what the guy above was warning you about).

Also, how is being respectful or polite === feminine? Who exactly are you trying to impress by saying this?

[–]RealRational4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

polite, respectful.

All men should be both of these, at a minimum professionally. You should only stop being polite with people you're close to. If you're an ass on the job or in a restaurant you're only hurting yourself.

[–]GreenLantern9043 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Holy shit what you just said makes so much sense about the relationships I've had.

[–]Dukedomb3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

That cringing feeling inside... I know dem feels. Burns like a motherfucker.

[–]Venomroach1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Lift those cringing burns out of your system. Keep pushing and pulling those weights around brother.

[–]Dukedomb1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks bud, I squatted and dead-lifted heaver than usual earlier tonight and the protein went down easy. Cheers.

[–]sukhvirk150-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy


It's just food. Pick a place. If she's feeling something else she'll say it.

If you are lifting, dress well, turn heads everytime you enter a room, and have many others willing to drop anything on a dime for a text from you, doesn't matter if you go somewhere she suggests. She gives you any shit you dislike, you next.

[–]awfukbye-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is the goal but how into LTR

[–]1REDPILLRECKONING109 points110 points  (8 children) | Copy

So to add onto this I would also recommend learning to use your voice as a tool. Learning when to strategically raise my voice and overpower others was a real lesson for me. During my masters I noticed that one of our professors was this real old school type of alpha. (he didn't look too much like what the internet (which we all know is a bunch of 13 y/o's wetting the bed) thinks is an alpha, he was about 5'7, thick mustache, full head of hair and fit for his age (50's))

But what was really cool about him was how level headed he was. The thing was, when he needed to make a point, he could raise his voice to this loudness and pitch that wasn't yelling, but was just above everyone elses and would kinda send a shock through everyones system. It was like he was signifying all of us to shut the fuck up and listen, and we did.

These old school types of moves are really important to master, because you learn them as you age and they really really work. I bring this up because when dealing with cackling and annoying women that can't seem to shut the fuck up, doing this is an amazing way of silencing them.

Most of the time, people that raise their voice are sort of the ones that are "allowed" to raise their voice in a formal setting. Moms, dads, bosses in general. Natural leaders tend to speak up when the time comes for it.

I can't tell you the number of settings in which this has been a useful tool for me. In small groups, there were times when the entire group was cackling and when I would start speaking the entire group would quiet down and listen. Lately I've been doing it just to test it out with women and I swear to god it's probably the next best aphrodisiac outside of strong eye contact.

P.S. Don't do it if you have nothing to add. I know there are alot of young guys who are going to just roar for the sake of roaring, but please please don't do this. If anything it will backfire in your face and noone will take you seriously. But if you do it in the right situations, and you only input useful pertinent info, people will label you as their alpha in all settings.

Good luck gents, RPR out.

[–]Vid-Master20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy

I know there are alot of young guys who are going to just roar for the sake of roaring, but please please don't do this.

This should be at the top of this comment, you should only raise your voice when things are beyond talking normally. In normal situations, you just use normal methods of persuasion or showing people that you know the right way of doing something.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy

The drill Sargent voice, it's an attention getter.

[–]Chet_Manly09876 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

PVT Manly, dress it to the RIIIIIGHT!

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

Recently I've discovered a way to intimidate people through eye contact alone. I was at a bank, the teller was being a bitchy pain in the ass, after waiting in line for an hour she wanted me to return tomorrow.

I was pissed. It must have showed on my face. I remember suppressing a snarl, feeling my eyes widen, pupils dilate and my mouth turned into a frown. All while staring straight at her.

She took one look and immediately became much more pleasant. I finished my business within half an hour.

The instinct to not mess with alphas comes from a primal part of our biology.

[–]real-boethius8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Alone similar lines the immortal "whose b**tch is this?".

[–]Merica9112 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I know there are alot of young guys who are going to just roar for the sake of roaring, but please please don't do this.

Precisely! If you only rise your voice when you really need to make your point over her bs, then she'll know this is important for you.

But if you raise your voice all the time, and then the time you really need to get your point across, now raising your voice is like every other time and she doesn't know the importance of it.

[–]warjesus4200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Kind of "boy who cried wolf" sort of lesson. If you "cry LISTEN TO ME" all the time even with dumb bs that really isn't important, when you do have something important/worth hearing it'll get lumped in as your usual dumb bs. Everyone knows you use your attention-getting tone with shit they usually don't care about or see as a waste of their attention, so they're going to assume it's that all the time even if it's not.

[–]Do not send modmail to my personal inboxCrazyHorseInvincible[M] 181 points182 points  (6 children) | Copy

TRP is not a democracy. Therefore, when a TRP autocrat likes your post, it gets superupvoted.

Behold, I award you this flair point, and I nail your words to the top of TRP.

[–][deleted] 93 points94 points  (5 children) | Copy

I'm a offensive and find this sjw

[–]AlphaJesus31 points32 points  (4 children) | Copy

Spread your cheeks and lift your sack sir.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy

Keep your fantasies to yourself

[–]_the_shape_5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Go out and get arrested sometime soon and the joke will hit you during processing...

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c138 points139 points  (35 children) | Copy

Men lead, women follow. They evolved to support, not to blaze the trail. They are best when they are at our side, allowed to be what they naturally are. By leading, you give them the freedom to become who they were truly meant to be. They will love you for it. And they will fuck you for it.

[–]whenfoom76 points77 points  (32 children) | Copy

Men should become aware of the many ways that the economy encourages us to NOT be leaders. When you encounter a problem, the economy doesn't want you to look inwardly to your creativity and resourcefulness. Instead, the economy wants you to look outwardly and ask, "What do I buy? Who do I pay?"

Little do men know that the more we allow the economy to provide solutions in times of confusion and pain, the more dependent we become on the economy. And the more dependent we are, the less attractive we are. One of the side of effects of too much dependency: simulated sterilization.

Consider how NO ONE looks like a leader while on their phones. No one looks sexy, mature, or independent. Phones are playpens. And the more time you spend in the playpen, the more childlike you become. Children are never leaders.

I could go on forever about this...

[–]LuvBeer39 points40 points  (2 children) | Copy

NO ONE looks like a leader while on their phones.

Not sure about that boss....

[–]Sebaceous_Sebacious 12 points12 points [recovered] | Copy

NO ONE looks like a leader while on their phones.

calling bullshit

[–]RealGucciSosa18 points19 points  (21 children) | Copy

Individuals' choices collectively make up the "economy". Its not a separate being in and of itself. You and everyone around you, our buying and selling habits, preference of one product over another, etc, is what makes the "economy".

Blaming the economy for anything is putting blame on some imaginery bogeyman. Just like the war on "terror", or rape culture, and so forth. Thats why leftists, fascists and welfare queens are always blaming the economy for their own problems (usually a result of their own lack of skills, laziness or just bad luck).

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours20 points21 points  (14 children) | Copy

Other than his use of "economy" as a bogeyman, the point is still valid. The most common thinking lately is exactly what he said. Who do I pay to fix this for me? Wheer do I get a new shiny one because this one is a year old? Very few do things for themselves, often citing "No time" yet they waste years of their lives watching pointless TV programs and doing other unproductive bullshit. Then they pay someone for to ten times what it would cost to do it themselves.

It's another way of blaming everyone else, pushing responsibility off on others, and reveling in ignorance. It's a very feminine thought process, because masculine thinking says "Fuck that, I'll do it myself!"

[–]Philhelm11 points12 points  (5 children) | Copy

Speaking of "no time," I literally had an unemployed woman who receives disability complain that she didn't have time to obtain some documents I requested for her husband's immigration matter. Unbelievable.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours16 points17 points  (4 children) | Copy

I worked 60-70 hours a week, the first ex had no time to do laundry or dishes because Disney vhs tapes are arduous.

[–]KeithStone30rack8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy

You signed up for another ex after that?

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yeah, vetted her ass for over seven years, she was great until I got sick for a few months, 13 years younger than me, she didn't get fat, didn't abuse my finances, and I thought she was "different" but found out AWALT.

[–]KeithStone30rack3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

vetted her ass for over seven years

She must have been one of those Russian sleeper agents. Damn man.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Young, naive, inexperienced in how bad relationships can be, thought she found her "soulmate" in this halfwit desperate loser kid. Well she might have, because she is 33 and hasn't done anything with her life, except get a useless degree. He is 26 now and prior to her going stupid, he was stalking a 38 year old morbidly obese single mother of two. She was nice to him, and he didn't get the hint until her dad and brother threatened him with bodily harm.

Girls are like water, they mold to fit the man they are with. There's a reason they always do far worse than me when they cheat and I punt them. They hook up with losers, and every one of them wants to come back, but none can.

[–]RealGucciSosa1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

Should be more concise then. Essentially, what we're trying to fault here is consumption culture, particularly dependency. Correct?

I had to point out his mistake, since he was doing what he was preaching against. Blaming something else instead of taking one's own lead/responsibility.

[–]Vid-Master14 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy

You shouldn't use words like "essentially" or "basically" unless it is describing something that is very complex to someone who won't understand the whole picture or process.

It is a strategy of displacing responsibility - "If I say essentially first, it makes it sound more vague and general"

"Essentially, what we're trying to fault here is consumption culture..."


"What we are trying to fault here is consumption culture..."

It is just more concise. I do agree with what you said in your comment.

[–]1twinyix2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Thanks man. I've been doing this a lot recently and I agree it's a strategy used to displace responsibility. I never thought of that besides now. This is similar to changing questions into statements.

"Do you want to eat Chinese food?" becomes "We're going to eat Chinese food." It gets your point across more quickly and establishes your frame.

[–]Vid-Master2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Sure thing, I do this as well and I replied to you because I was thinking to myself "I do this too much" lol :D

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Come here for the misogyny-soaked hamster fuel. Stay for the writing lessons.

Very nice explanation.

Strunk and White.. I need to put it back on bathroom reading rotation.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

That's a big part of the problem, consumption culture is an apt term. He was doing that, but he was on the right track, albeit poorly expressed.

[–]RealGucciSosa0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I had to add my point to the discussion, since I'm pro freemarket, and his remarks were alluding to the opposite whether he intended to or not. Every times someone praises war or criticises the free market, I might just jump in to provide a bigger picture/another view.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I like a free market. Works for me. What doesn't work for me is allowing corporations or extremely wealthy individuals to essentially buy the government. Making laws to line your pockets at the expense of the people pisses me off.

Designed obsolescence sucks, but if you can manage to get people to buy the shiny new one every year or few months, more power to you.

I'm sorta middle of the road, except when it comes to the above.

[–]whenfoom1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

An economy isn't imaginary. You can say "The economy is strong," or "The economy is weakening," and those statements aren't meaningless. Furthermore, there are different economies (hunter/gatherer, feudal, capitalist, communist). And those economies are systems that produce different things. Just like how your body is a system and it produces shit and air-heady reductionistic philosophies. If the system was different, the products would be different. Organizational properties have causal influence.

And yes, emergent systems behave differently from the individuals that compose them. I won't go into explaining why you should move past that thought, since most American philosophers dwelled on it for a several recent decades.

[–]RealGucciSosa0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

An economy is a concept, not a tangible being/thing

[–]whenfoom0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't know what you mean - aside from straining to force the idea that the economy isn't a 'thing,' because you apparently think 'thing' is some kind of extra special category. And being tangible isn't coextensive with being a thing. First, concepts are things and you can't touch them. But so are 'things' like life, death, erosion, earthquakes, popularity, rainbows, victory, marriage, etc etc.

[–]RealGucciSosa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The economy is a "concept" or even a "phenomenon", its not a tangible item or being. That's the difference, I could get into etymological specifics all day. It only derails our discussions however.

[–]foldpak1111 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don't even get me started on that war on 'terror' bullshit

[–]RP_WIP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Implying an influence is not blaming, correlation != causation, blah blah blah yadda yadda.

[–]deeman0100 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I cannot agree with this.

Why do you bring the economy as some sort of bogeyman? It's just THE collection of everyone's spending habits and money. You should see it as something that gives you an advantage as you're able to know how everyone else is doing.

[–]whenfoom1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The economy wants your life prestructured because then your tastes are more controllable and your behavior is more predicatable - because you'll purchase whatever coping strategy the economy makes available.

[–]ECoast_Man9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is exactly what I wanted to say, and frankly I'm surprised this even controversial. How many times are women 'swept off their feet' in the popular media and women porn (romance novels).

'I don't know... (Up speak)' should always be followed with male decisiveness.

[–]YOLOGabaGaba2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The way of the superior man does an excelent job of explaining this theory.

[–]xeroblaze011 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

This resonates with me more than most other posts on here. It gives more context to what she's really asking.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think there is something about relenting power to others... because you deferred to them, when things go wrong you can blame them: "I trusted you, and you screwed up!"

Then there is the other side: "I want you to pick where I want to go so I don't have to feel like I'm making you do something you don't want to do."

We've all had this, and in honesty, we've all likely done it ourselves. I remember one time I literally went through 12 different kinds of food/restaurants and my date said "No" after each one, but kept insisting that I pick the place and that she didn't care: Me: How about Indian? Her: No. I've never tried that. Me: Chinese? Her: No. I had that last week. Me: Mexican? Her: I don't like tacos. Me: They have more than tacos. Her: No Mexican. Me: How pizza? Her: I had that last night. Me: Italian? Her: I'm on a low carb diet. Me: Thai? Her: What's that? No. I don't want that.

And so on and so on.

She ultimately chose some shit buffet place to gorge herself and then wanted to play Bingo. We didn't go on a second date.

[–]Senior ContributorMentORPHEUS7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

She will be sporting bingo wings in her 30s at that rate.

[–]DeeBased6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy

Alternative theory - she's already decided where she wants to go, but makes the man play the guessing game until he finally suggests the place she wanted to go to all along. That way it was his idea, and if anything goes wrong with the meal she's not responsible.

Alternate theory #2 - I went through this with a girlfriend once. She complained I never asked her where she wanted to eat. So I started asking, but she would never decide. So I gently confronted her about asking her but getting no decision, and she replied, "I guess I don't really want to make the decision, I just wanted to be asked." After that I would sometimes ask, but never expect (or get) a response and I would just choose and shit ran smooth.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I believe both those theories are true.

But if it's her call.... and it's all about what she wants....then something is fundamentally wrong with the relationship. She should be trying to please you. She should be saying "Let's go to that Sushi place you love... even though I'll be going hungry, but it's worth it just to watch your awesome jaw muscles flexing".

[–]1legedu[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

That's where I'm at. First I ask if she has a preference. The answer is always no anyway.

[–]cleverley19860 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Why not..."im going here for dinner. Are you coming with me?"

[–]TRP VanguardYouDislikeMyOpinion21 points22 points  (1 child) | Copy

The second part of the strategy is to distance themselves from responsibility

Because if you take the responsibility away from yourself, you're a victim. You're not responsible. They like being victims.

happy victim = repeat business in the bedroom.

[–]Mildly_Sociopathic6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's not that they like being victims, it's that they don't want to be the ones to blame. Heck, who does? Nobody likes being a failure.

Think about it in a tribal scenario. She screws up, the village hates her and kicks her out. She can't provide (because men were the hunters, not women) and so she would die. So, in order to prevent it, they sort of learned to leave tasks to others and therefore not have to take responsibility.

It's sorta like plausible deniability.

[–][deleted] 53 points54 points  (0 children) | Copy

Know what my LTR eats when she is with me?

Whatever I pick for her.

Seems mean because of the social programming most of us went through as kids. But she compliments me all the time for it. Now, when we go out, she looks at the menu and then closes it and says that she trusts me. You really do have to treat your women like little girls. Would you let your little kid pick what they want to eat?

[–]bobapop6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy

Good post and insight. As someone still working to swallow the pill, I still find indecisiveness in women quite annoying. They carry on about how much they like it when their opinions are valued, but never seem to have one fucking available when pressed for it.

[–]Endorsed Contributorbicepsblastingstud20 points21 points  (1 child) | Copy

The short answer is that committing to an opinion puts you at risk of being opposed to the group. Easy example: if you say "I am conservative," you're at risk that the group you're in might be mostly liberal.

Women evolved such that social standing in a group is everything. This is why women powertalk and why they tend to avoid taking fixed positions on things, particularly things which don't have an obvious answer.

[–]ColdEiric0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I've women who are rather successful, and they can have great conversations with people, and not remember what they talked about. It's also possible that they do remember, but they are master pretenders about it.

[–]catladykatie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

To go along with the earlier discussion of treating women like children:

If you'd like to allow her to express her opinions while still being a leader, give her a forced choice. "What will it be tonight, sushi or steak?" Works really well on a first date when you aren't sure of food allergies, preferences, etc. For LTRs, watch for the places she chooses most often and you can eventually stop giving the forced choice and just make the decision.

I do the same thing when working with kids. "Which would you like to do first--math homework or science homework?"

[–]FrostyWalrus23 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Can't say I've ever had a woman that made a finalized decision to go/do before I have. The only times I've ever seen a woman make the (finalized) decision was with a few non-redpill buds of mine. Everyone here can more than likely guess how their relationships were and what the women did within a few weeks or months.

I've always found that even the most menial decisions to a woman will be forwarded to me, even down to what color underwear she should wear for the day. Extremely aggravating to deal with, but necessary in our world.

[–]2CHAD_J_THUNDERCOCK3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

This is a really good post. The insight you had over the last 10 years, that it was that combination of two factors, was already great. The new one is very good too.

Are you in Private Wealth Management, if you don't mind me asking?

You might like the wallstreetplayboys blog if you havent seen if already. Lots of good talk about Sales / Wall Street

[–]1mojo_juju1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

wallstreetplayboys blog

Fuck man, thx for the intro to WSPB blog

good shit, straight TRP

[–]1legedu[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I enjoy some of the older WSPB, but they've kinda gone off the deep end lately, don't you think?

[–]Philhelm2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

The "what do you want to eat" question is perhaps the worst shit test imaginable. Even when you fucking make a decision, her response is, "Nooooo...I at that for lunch," or "Nooooo...I don't like that," etc., etc., etc. Fucking aggravating.

An epiphany! Next time I will just go to Chick-fil-A (which my wife hates, damn her soul), and tell her that she can just eat chick.

[–]drallcom3 5 points5 points [recovered] | Copy

The solution is to go eat there anyway and leave her at home.

[–]1Soarinc0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

If the "what do you want to eat" argument was a shit-test all this time, I feel like an idiot (I thought it was genuine question every single time!)

[–]Philhelm1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's definitely a shit test. I never realized the purpose behind the complete illogical behavior until I became acquainted with the Red Pill. That is why you can give a million suggestions and they'll complain about them all.

[–]projectself2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

first, it's a fitness test for us as the pack leader. Do you want to make the decision and stand by it/defend it?

It is simply the feminine wants to yield. She wants you to be the leader, thus the decision maker. If she doesn't like your decision sure she will say something. What she is saying is that she trusts your decision. And that by forcing her to make the decision, she must become more masculine to offset your indecisiveness.

This is why most women do not like feminine men, it repulses them because then they have to become more masculine to offset the mans weakness.

[–]The Private ManZamarski11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

"it's true that they have a hard time deciding a lot of things, but the 'What's for dinner?' example shows something else. In her mind, she's ALREADY MADE her decision: she chose you. That was a difficult decision for her, and now she feels she doesn't need to make any more. That's your job."

Brilliance... I'm gonna turn that into a Tweet. Many thanks for posting this.

[–]evilquesadilla 12 points12 points [recovered] | Copy

When I'm hungry I don't care what I eat, I just want food. Here's a typical example:

GF: Where do you want to eat?

Me: How about this place?

GF: No...

Me: How about that place?

GF: No...

Me: How about this other place that you like?

GF: Well... not feeling it right now... Let's eat Sushi..

Me: Sure (thinking.. then why didn't you just say you want sushi to begin with?)

This has nothing to do with who's the alpha or any deeper meanings, because the times that we do go some place I want to go, that she doesn't like, she just pokes at her food and complains how she doesn't like it.

Not everything is an alpha test, sometimes women are just picky as fuck.

[–]garrettruskamp20 points21 points  (3 children) | Copy

It's highly possible I am wrong, but maybe if you had said "we're getting Italian at _" or "let's get Mexican at _, I'll drive" it would be more of a command or statement than question. And I believe she may have responded better.

[–]evilquesadilla 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy

Edit: deleted my original post because I misunderstood you.

You mean make it a statement. She'll just say she doesn't want to eat there or she's not feeling it.

[–]charlesbukowksi3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

then tell her she can come or you'll go without her. she wants to be told what to do.

[–]1Soarinc2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

I actually think your story belongs in the sidebar! I can't stand when they act indecisive and make it your job to convince them of what they want to eat!

Here's my similar example:

GF: I'm Hungry

Me: What would you like to eat?

GF: Anything

Me: How about wings?

GF: I'm not in the mood for wings.

Me: How about this other food that you like?

GF: Well I don't like that either, just make the wings I'm hungry.

(notice how all 3 statements the GF says all contradict the other 2)

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

GF: I'm Hungry

Correct answer: "I'm going to XXX place, you can come along."

GF: I don't fancy XXX

"Not a problem at all"

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What would you like to eat?

The right answer is: We're having mexican bitch. Or, lets get sushi.

You decide. Put your weight behind the decision. It's not a negotiation

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Not everything is an alpha test, sometimes women are just picky as fuck.

It's an alpha test. She wouldn't sit there picking at her food saying "I'm not haaaaaaaapppy" while sitting opposite Brad Pitt.

[–]laere1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

I used to do the suggestion game in the past, but as you said women are picky, just like a child who won't eat their vegetables.

I started saying, don't like it? to bad, eat it or don't eat, eat it or no desert. If I wanna go to olive garden for the 600th day in a row, and you don't want to, then peace out girl scout. I am still gonna get me some fucking breadsticks.

[–]evilquesadilla 5 points5 points [recovered] | Copy

Yup, I get it, but it's a battle I chose not to fight, as we, like all other couples, have many other battles to choose from. And realistically, if all you do is peace out at every conflict, then the relationship will degrade rather quickly.

If you care about the relationship, it's a balance, you can't fight every battle, but you can't always back off and just take the rolled up newspaper on the head either.

But I will tell you, I'm getting pretty tired. I'm starting to come to the conclusion that relationships in general are not for me.

[–]JohnGalt3167 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

of course you are tired ... i would be too if i had to deal with that BS too everyday

better to take a hardline approach and find a woman who is willing to adapt than put up with that

consider it a male shit test ... find out if she can adapt or do things she doesn't want to do with a smile on her face ... if she can't, then next her

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

But I will tell you, I'm getting pretty tired. I'm starting to come to the conclusion that relationships in general are not for me.

You need to run things so they are right for you. It's never gonna be perfect, but you shouldn't have to work too hard on it. Hell, women don't (unless you count bickering as meaningful productivity). If it's getting tiring for you, it sounds like she isn't motivated enough.

[–]laere0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yup. When you start filling your time with shit to do, a relationship is the last thing on your mind.

[–]80smadmax0nly2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't know if I agree with this. Women are sterotypically, historically the food managers AND in my family the women mostly managed the meals and recipes. Any woman's Pinterest has columns of new recipes to try. I go to a church that is 99% 20-something female and most of the ladies go ape shit about planning meals.

I think the general rule is if the decision to be made is born from logic--man. If born from creative/feminine--female. I think food preparation is creative/feminine. A dude who get's his lady's advice on financial planning or car selection--is a wimp--unless said lady has a PhD in finance/economics.

I don't think a girl would dump you because you let her tickle her foodie fantasy--as long as you were a leader about it as if you delegating the authority to her as second mate--"That's your role sweetie" or whatever.

[–]riyuugonepro2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

When she choses you, your answer is her answer.

[–]HeadingRed2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is why I don't ask "what do you want to eat" instead I say "do you want chicken or streak". She gets to feel like she had a choice. I don't have to play 20 questions.

[–]mugatucrazypills1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

A shit test would be something that you could theoretically pass by being firm and holding frame.

More recently I've encountered the where do you want to eat question in the unsolvable catch-22 form. Which is basically just a way for a woman that you're socially contracted to, to continue to abuse and humiliate you by showing how much they can make you put up with.

There's no correct answer, they won't answer, and they're going to criticize whatever you pick.

I say go where you want, let them bitch and try to imagine you are somewhere else.

A special supplemental hell is watching such a woman order, making a 20 part special order over a hamburger after asking detail question about every thing on the menu at a light lunch. How often have I left an increase in my regular tip because I feel sorry for the server having had to put up with them.

Invariably, I will order my meal and enjoy my food, while the lady at the table will spend the rest of the evening brooding that the short order chef at the olive garden say was not michelin star worthy.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

She needs to know that spending time with you is a fucking privilege. Without this in place, she's fundamentally going to try and exert some sort of control for her own benefit, and often that consists of just fucking things up as much as possible.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Unless you giver her reason to feel otherwise"

More like unless her hamster tells her to feel otherwise, unless she hits the wall, unless you are the last attractive man on earth.

It is true that women want you in charge and they cannot make good decisions, but they can definitely makr bad decisions. Like fucking Chad then dumping her BF, like sucking off guys in toilet stalls then lying to everyone about it, like taking some poor dudes kids off him.

Women can make decisions, usually bad ones. If you are alpha enough you can contan her insanity for a time, but never cure it. So I totally agree that women are indecisive and this can be overcome for a time with a strong make influence. However this is always a temporary situation. Eventually that degenerate hamster that she calls a mind is going to fuck shit up.

[–]joshsoowong1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Women are not liars. Think of their words like the ocean. They merely say things that reflect how they feel. When men talk they mean the things they say. When women talk they talk about how they feel. That is why they often change their minds.

The way of the superior man taught me this. Read it.

[–]1User-31f64a4e1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy


If a woman frequently questions your decisions, she has not chosen you, she has un-chosen you, or she is considering un-choosing you.

Frequent static thus means, step up your game.

Note: You have to be careful not to confuse comfort tests for shit tests.
Also bear in mind that just like a cigar is sometimes just a cigar, sometimes disgreement, questioning or backtalk is not a challenge and really is because she had Italian at work for lunch the last 3 days, or there's a going away party at a Thai joint tomorrow after work so your Thai choice is a non-starter.
The point of this caveat is to not be overly simplistic, categoric and reductionist. That said, OP is right on and it's a great insight.

[–]Corapsara1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

I don't blame you guys for being pissed. We women are indecisive, we chase the bad boys and shun the steady men, and we are susceptible to head games. Worse, we also play head games, as much with ourselves as with you. That's fucking annoying! You should be annoyed!

What I blame Red Pill men for is blaming biology for women's idiocies instead of blaming our idiotic societal conditioning. Even if that societal gender conditioning had a purpose way back when (quick, what do you want for dinner, rabbit or squirrel! Shit, too late, both are out of bowshot!) it's simply detrimental now. Now us women being taught to defer to a man on every issue cripples us women and baffles you men. Time to do away with it!

You are fighting a good fight, you have simply selected the wrong targets. Individual women have to shake free of the romance novel/Disney movie crap (it took me twenty some years!). And men should help us do that, not decide it's your divine, natural right to choose what everyone is having for dinner because some societally conditioned woman can't speak her mind. Of course we know what we want for dinner, we've just been taught not to say so!

Let me add this: I love men, and I wouldn't want to live without you. But you Red Pill men are asking for some long term pain and suffering when you play these games with women. Because only a crazy or very immature woman is going to tolerate it. And eventually she'll either do a Jodi Arias snap (especially if you're cheating on her) or she'll grow up and leave you. Even if you mature along with her, she might still leave you if she resents your past game playing enough. Even if she participated willingly for awhile. So if you want love into your golden years, don't play these games!

With all my heart and all my other parts, I do love men. And I get where you're coming from. But this issue isn't about individual women, it's about the idiotic culture we all grew up in. The culture you grew up in, too. If you really want better relationships (and more sex!) you'll realize that the only way forward is to help women break free of the crap ASAP.

I'm old and 'jaded' now. I know how to answer when someone asks 'what do you want for dinner?'. I just tell the truth. But it would have been better for the men I dated and for me if I'd learned that at age 17 instead of at age 42. I kind of wonder what would have happened if, the first time I answered 'I don't know' to the 'what do you want for dinner' question, my first boyfriend had said, 'of course you know what you want for dinner. Get your nose out of those stupid romance novels and tell me, because I'm not putting up with that brainwashed shit from you!'

[–]Lord_shitmeister0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

That's simply not true. I was raised by a feminist and I drank the kool aid you're serving.

Help women break free, be modern, don't impose your will, listen, etc...

I did because that's what I was told to do and I was an Incel until 26 yo.

After finding the red pill, becoming what I would have called before a huge asshole, starting to run and lift I feel better and women want to have sex with me and they even look at me different and treat me better in everyday life.

Women need a firm hand, I'm the first one that's sorry for it my natural tendency being to be very collaborative and not pushy. But you just can't do that with women, they don't do collaboration, they do dominant or dominated. That's the only modes that are available. Unfortunately.

[–]Corapsara0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I bike and would lift if my back weren't too messed up. I'm a woman. I feel much better and more confident and more likely to be treated better when I'm in shape.

As for the rest: I saw this awesome quote on, of all places, a bathroom stall. Here it is:

Don't tell me what to do unless I'm naked!

If you do, you won't like the outcome.

[–]Lord_shitmeister0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It might be entertaining for Red Pill men to count the instances of personalization in a woman’s rebuttal comment, but it’s not about how many “I”s or “me”s a woman brings to any counterargument – it’s that her first inclination for a counterargument is to use her personal experience and expect it to be accepted as a valid, universal truth by whomever she is presenting it to.

I’s, Me’s and Myself’s are simply the vehicle and manifestation of women’s first directive – a solipsistic mental point of origin; any challenge to that self-importance is invalidated by her personal self-primacy. This mental origin is so automatic and ingrained to such a limbic degree that consideration of it is never an afterthought for her.

[–]Lord_shitmeister1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

And yet every single TV show out of the US today has a women leading the pack and trailblazing.


[–]mikesteane0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Put your TV in the trash and use the time saved for life-affirming activities.

[–]Lord_shitmeister0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That's like one of my dreams. Unfortunately my TV is my PC and I need it for other things.

[–]night-addict1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

Question. I matched with a Tinder date and invited her along to a bar crawl I was doing. I had already planned what was going on, but she completely broke away from what OP is saying here and tried to get me to change the bars I was going to, attempting to take charge.

What do I make of this?

[–]Driv3n12 points13 points  (6 children) | Copy

Leave her ass behind...Are you even paying attention?

[–]night-addict0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Oh, I nexted the shit out of her, don't get me wrong. I'm just curious how that behavior fits into this whole idea.

[–]Pathosphere1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

She may have had some specific reason for wanting to go to a different place. We really don't have enough information to begin to analyze this one.

[–]night-addict2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

I will say this: it really did sound like she wanted to change the location just for the sake of taking control.

[–]cleverley19861 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

She wanted to see if youd bend to her will...imagine her telling her friends "yeah this guy doing a bar crawl changed the location to suit me."

[–]night-addict1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, I nexted her. Friends bailed though so I set up the bar crawl with a different chick.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Giant shit test. Assertiveness is attractive especially in person. text messages are a poor medium

[–]SComm0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That women are going to complain not matter what & even if there are plans made they're always looking for something better. Which is why they usually end up home alone on Tinder or complaining on Facebook.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Control freak. Taking over your life when you've already decided to go out with friends. Urgh, next.

[–]hirjd0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Summary - Women are indecisive because they've already made the decision that matters to them.

Also because they need their man to decide, and that may not be you. It's like asking a clerk when the pretzels will go on sale again. "I don't know. I just work here."

[–]MetalliMunk0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"I don't know." is one of the core phrases of my wife, thanks for clarifying why!

[–]Smooovies0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is also why you can't use women's attraction to you as a good means of measurement of whether you've made progress as a man. She'll be comfortable in playing second mate, but her following instinct is not one that proportionately makes us better leaders. Leading a weak soldier does not make a general better. Good leaders must be challenged, and through their own self assessment can they reach the heights of their potential.

[–]agentsmolder0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Brilliant epiphany, I have never seen it in that perspective. Thanks for sharing mate, cheers.

[–]Sherlock--Holmes0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I always give my woman the chance to make a choice, and if she can't choose quickly I make a suggestion. If she still can't make a choice then I urge my favorite choice. If she is still indecisive then I'll talk it over with her and explain to her why the choice I want her to make is the best. Then she agrees and we do what I wanted to do.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

This sounds like it's her decision all along, and you're going round the houses to make the choice she's happy with.

This is all so ass-backwards. It's your life, her place in it is a fucking honour.

[–]hores0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Can't believe your post was downvoted to 0. Back up it goes.

I think TwoX is leaking into TRP.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm seriously wondering if that's happening too.

[–]aazav-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

it can't possibly be her fault.

This seems to be a point of eternal importance with women, "nothing can ever be their 'fault'".

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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