If your goal is to have sex with as many women as possible, why do you shame women who have sex with as many men as possible?

nicethingyoucanthave · 2013-07-03T15:28:07+00:00

My goal is not to have sex with as many women as possible. Indeed, I would prefer to have had fewer partners than I've already had. In my experience, the best sex is not the one-night-stand, but the longer-term relationship. Sometimes, you can (I don't want to say, "get lucky") "accidentally" have great sex the first time, but usually it takes a few tries to learn about and get in sync with someone.

My goal, and I think this is everyone's goal, is simply a happy life. I have been, and certainly would be again, happy with one woman to love. I am happier with repeated good sex than I am with one-off mediocre sex.

However, my experience and the things I've learned about human behavior, psychology, and the culture in which I find myself, have led me to believe that being with one woman my entire life is as much an unrealistic fantasy for me as the "princess" fantasy would be for a woman.

Therefore, I am here in this subreddit, and I say and believe the things I say and believe, not because my goal is to have sex with many women, but because I am resigned to a truth about human nature, and resolved to accept that truth and to disregard fantasy even if the truth is harsh and the fantasy comforting.

I hope that I've never shamed anyone. As an atheist, I don't really have the common tool of shaming - the claim that someone is morally corrupt because of sex. I wouldn't point at someone, woman or otherwise, and say, "you should be ashamed for having sex!" I don't think that women who have lots and lots of sex should feel shame.

ospurt · 2013-07-03T14:03:56+00:00

The difference is hooking up and LTR/marriage.

The "sluts" we shame are trying to get us to "man up" and pay full price for sexual access she gave away for free while she was in her prime.

We congratulate red pill men who don't get cheated. We shame women who rip blue pill men off.

DingFuckinDong · 2013-07-03T16:12:53+00:00

I can only speak for myself here but I don't think anyone is "shaming" anyone for being a slut. Sluts are great. I love sluts because I can hook up with them at will which is exactly the type of "relationship" I'm looking for at this point in my life. It's just that sluts don't make great marriage material.

The problem that I have with sluts is that they don't expect their behavior to have consequences but ALL behavior/actions have consequences. Suddenly not wanting to date someone because of their past sexual history is "slut shaming." No, it's not. It's your personal choice/preference.

"Slut Shaming" doesn't actually exist it's a term invented by people who don't want to face the consequences of their actions.

watersign · 2013-07-03T17:53:42+00:00

Because it is insanely easy for any half way decent looking girl to have sex with an infinite amount of guys, while a half way decent looking guy still has to put a phenomenal amount of work in to get the same results. It's like saying why congratulate a boxer for winning a match when he could easily go beat some old person up on the street.

omnicrontau · 2013-07-03T18:45:38+00:00

Sadly my goal isn't to have sex with as many women as possible. I've always drawn the most satisfaction out of fostering long term relationships with women who I viewed as both friends as well as partners.

Unfortunately the girl I loved and planned on marrying after five years decided to sleep with an 'alpha' instead.

This made me realise that being 'beta' or whatever the hell I was didn't really work and that what I'm looking for in life and what would make me happy isn't really feasible and would most likely end in misery over and over again. Hence I want to break that cycle and start seeing the world for what it is and that means realising that monogamy and attachment to that level doesn't work and that the goal of having sex with as many women as possible is actually far more feasible.

So I don't shame women for losing out to biology, but I'll never, ever expect to be able to have a monogamous relationship with one again it's just the sad truth of reality. Ancient cultures used to deal with this by aggressively controlling and punishing women, as well as men, that broke sacred bonds of marriage. I don't mind that women have sexual freedom and autonomy now but it does mean that I can never expect a relationship to work long term it's just how our society is.

yankeetiger · 2013-07-03T16:09:46+00:00

I wouldn't say that this line of thinking shames women who cheat, but rather it just points them out as unsuitable LTR partners.

After all, if hypergamy is indeed a thing (which is almost undoubtedly true), we can't hold women accountable for obeying it.

whiskey_bearfist · 2013-07-03T15:50:29+00:00

women who cheat with sex are the same as men who cheat with emotional commitment. these are undesirable traits in a mate as they thwart the natural sexual strategy.

the lesser form of cheating is men who have sex with other women but are still emotionally and resourcefully committed to their spouse and kids, and a woman who is sexually faithful to her spouse but emotionally committed elsewhere (usually her kids or male friends/orbiters). these are naturally less offensive due to the nature of biology.

sexual function, and therefore sexual strategy, makes the types of infidelity unequal.

as a guy, if you can get sex from a woman without having to commit emotionally or with your resources, that is maximizing sexual strategy.

as a girl, if you can get emotional commitment and resources from a guy without having sex with him, that is maximizing sexual strategy.

themoor · 2013-07-03T14:49:09+00:00

First, I agree with the idea (supported by both research and men's experiences) and a woman who has more partners finds it difficult to actually bond with future mates and this is much less true for men. So a woman with many partners will be a dicey choice for a future mate.

That said, there are other reasons as well. Here's one:

For a man to have sex, he has dozens of hoops to jump through: looks, social skill, confidence, game, logistics, passing tests, pre-selection, and so on.

For a woman to have sex, she just needs to show up.

Now, which one deserves more credit for the accomplishment?

redpillschool · 2013-07-03T15:10:29+00:00

This question again. Everybody already addressed it, but to boil it down: Sluts make terrible wives, and we lament the downfall of the marriage culture that rewards betas.

It's pretty nuanced since there are many groups (of both men and women) whose strategies are at odds with each other, and when one wins, others do not. For instance, an alpha who wants all the sex he can get isn't too upset with sluts.

You should spend some time lurking, maybe read the sidebar.

t21spectre · 2013-07-03T18:14:50+00:00

From a human nature point of view, prior to modern society and genetic testing, a man seeking to reproduce with a woman who has multiple partners greatly reduces the chance the the offspring will be his. Thus his genetic line may be broken. Many males of numerous species in the animal kingdom go to great lengths to ensure they father the offspring over other males.

I find this innate subconscious behavior to exist in human males as well. The purpose of sex, instinctually, is primarily to spread ones genetic material, it is a difficult instinct or override, even if one does not desire to reproduce and seeks sex merely for the pleasure aspect.

anal_cyst · 2013-07-03T14:44:09+00:00

everyone's knee jerk reaction is to blame the man being cheated with instead of the woman doing the cheating. The men being cheated with aren't breaking a promise they made to someone. the women are.

maybestomorrow · 2013-07-03T16:12:35+00:00

Because men buy sex and pay with emotional validation and commitment, women the other way around. Slut = woman selling sex without getting much emotional commitment = cheap. Nice guy = man selling emotional commitment or validation without being sexed = cheap.

JoshtheAspie · 2013-07-03T17:47:22+00:00

It is simple, the man did not break any promises or vows. Often, the man in this situation doesn't even know that the woman is in a relationship. The man has no duty to honor what the woman promised to someone else (and he probably doesn't know what she promised). I don't think anybody here would tolerate it either if the man were in a relationship and he lies to his partner and sleeps with a single woman.

People who break their promises and vows on simple a emotional whim cannot be trusted. I do not want to be friends with them. I do not want to engage in business with them. I do not want them to be around my friends. If someone is willing to stab their life partner in the back (and it's not like they are getting a million dollars to do it either, the incentive is actually quite minimal), why should I take the time and effort to investing in any type of relationship with this person? There are billions of people in the world, many of them are honorable. I rather associate with them.

This point of view is in fact very consistent with the modern view that women are people with equal rights, and that they are not property. People have the ability to make decisions. People have the ability to make promises or vows. If a dog runs away and comes back pregnant, nobody is going to say "But the dog promised she will stay home!". Nobody will blame the dog because it is the owner's fault. But if a woman (or man) were to break her promises and sleep around, it is 100% her choosing and her fault. If fact, it can be argued that it is my duty to warn my friends not to have a relationship with this woman because she may stab them in the back like she is doing with her current partner. Afterall, most people agree that women should warn their friends if they know that a guy has a long history of being violent and abusive.

EDIT: And a further thought. Should the man be shamed if he knows that the woman is in a relationship? We have to think about what the man did wrong. If you think that women are property, then yes, the man should be shamed because he stole/violated another man's property rights. But if the woman is an independent person, then what did the man do wrong? If the man knows the other guy, then he may have violated his duty to be loyal to his friends. But if he doesn't know the other guy, does the man still have this duty?

2013-07-03T22:52:32+00:00

My goal is definitely not to have sex with as many people as possible. What gave you that idea?

2013-07-04T01:09:15+00:00

I think Oscar Wilde said it best.

"Men always want to be a woman's first love - women like to be a man's last romance."

women like to be a man's last romance

In my experience women don't care about numbers. They just want the security. I think that's why so many women settle with beta dudes. A beta-minded dude will tell any girl she is special if she gives up the pussy. Wine and dine her like she is the girl he has always wanted and all she had to do was give him access to her body. It's lame and sooner or later it gets old. Women get trapped in these scenarios and get a bad wrap for hurting these guys. But think about it, beta-thinkers treat their SO like a real doll. Davecat-ing but in a bad way.

To reiterate, I believe some women actually think they want to be with a certain guy but as time passes it turns out he doesn't give a shit about her and who she is but he is just geeked out that a girl is letting him have sex with her. In essence she can do no wrong as long as he is getting the pussy. It becomes apparent that the beta-thinking guy is desperate and it doesn't really matter who he is fucking. It could be her, her friend, or some random girl and the guy would treat them all the same.

When it comes to alpha-minded men who do sleep around women can sleep with him and more or less have fun. The guy isn't going to get attached or get possessive or expect anything more than some mutual masturbation. (Although something that we need to keep in mind is honesty. As soon as a guy lies to a woman saying "I'll be your boyfriend" or "You are special and blah blah blah" and then bangs her under those false pretenses he is the worst kind of man. That is weak game and dishonest.)

When an alpha chooses to be with a woman exclusively it means something. He is desired by other women and despite that fact he has chosen her. She IS special.

Men always want to be a woman's first love

I don't think I need to go into detail but I will say that there isn't a specific number where dudes will cut off a girl logically. All men care about is how she conducts herself and how she describes her sexual past. For example if she is frivolously listing off past partners or if you hear around that she slept around with this guy and that it's hard to feel she is special. Why would you choose a woman who is promiscuous.

Now if a woman has been in some serious or even semi-relationships and also got laid a few times while she was backpacking in Europe, I don't think most guys will hold that against her. As long as she isn't bringing up the Portuguese model that rocked her world to me or at a party with mutual friends I think it will be fine.

We all have our differences and something that I might be cool with someone else might not be. It's all about respect and comfort zones. No man wants to walk into a public place where a bunch of guys have fucked their wife. Conversely no woman would want to walk into a places where her husband has proposed to a bunch of women.

mazzyTuff · 2013-07-03T14:05:00+00:00

The two are not comparable.

In one instance a man is seducing a lady. He has broken no word to anyone nor has he lied. A man can seduce a woman with a boyfriend and still be an honest person.

In the other a lady is breaking her word to a man. Thus lying, breaking her oath, and betraying her partner.

If women want to sleep around, honesty begets trust. Be honest about your desire for more partners.

I am honest to women about my intentions to sleep with women other than them.

Which is why you'll also notice a lot of red pillers appreciate prostitutes, who are up front and honest about what they want.

The key is honesty, trust, and respect. A woman who cheats on her man is unable to provide those three essential qualities for an authentic relationship.

Demonspawn · 2013-07-03T13:43:31+00:00

Because, despite your androgynous fantasies, men and women are different.

Stayinghereforreal · 2013-07-03T15:06:51+00:00

"it seems" Examples and links?

Because your characterization is a strawman set up, rather than a nuanced and fair restatement of what you may typically encounter at a website like this one.

(And no, I do not feel obligated to do the work for you in restating TRP attitudes and thoughts.)

ospurt · 2013-07-03T16:55:38+00:00

My previous comment holds the red pill truth, but it doesn't fully address what the OP was asking.

In some ways congratulating the redpill man who has sex with a woman in "a relationship" is a way of acknowledging he has come to terms with the hypergamous and base natures of women. In other ways it serves as a reminder that men in relationships they value must be Alpha and Diligent, lest they be cheated on by disloyal sluts.

Personally, I don't pursue attached (meaning married or engaged) women. Women with boy friends are open season. Game teaches you that a woman with a boy friend that hasn't committed to him is still in active hypergamous mode.

However, that does not prevent those women from giving off IOI's, concealing their relationship status and accepting the advances of a red pill man just doing his thing.

It takes two to tango, and I will sign right up to shame the man who aggressively goes into mate stealing, but to shame the man who finds himself in a hook-up with a slut who devalued her "relationship"? Hardly...I'd only shame the red pill guy if he got OneItis for that harlot.

favours_of_the_moon · 2013-07-03T18:03:42+00:00

Because we don't live to seek your approval?

I don't know that people here are automati trying to seek out as many vaginas as possible either.

Anyway, is your thesis that WE are hypocrites, and women are not? Because, if you'd REALLY like to go there, we can challenge that hypothesis.

PIBagent · 2013-07-04T00:35:14+00:00

I think you're confused about the entire concept of slut shaming and its origins.

First of all, men typically do not engage in slut shaming. Men fucking love sluts. If I'm on a date with a girl and she starts dropping slut tells, it psyches me up, because I know I'm gonna get laid. If she starts giving prude tells, then I wish I had cancelled on her and stayed at home to veg out. Never, do I hear that a girl is a slut, and USE that information to decide I'd rather not see her. Because men aren't the ones that slut shame, that's the realm of women.

It's been largely explored and discussed in Baumeister's works on the sexual marketplace. Women slut shame other women in order to raise the value of pussy across the board. It's the same reason women want to keep prostitution illegal (for the customers only), and they want to get rid of porn (moreso than men).

Men, don't slut shame, but this doesn't mean they want to marry a slut. Men view marriage through a very different lense than women. The only thing to be gain from marriage from a man's perspective is legitimate children that he can raise as he sees fit. That's it. There is no other reason in the world for a man to get married, and sign himself to a social contract of exclusivity. Men typically don't want to do this with sluts, because the chance of being cuckolded goes through the roof with each +1 dick she's had inside her.

Olipyr · 2013-07-03T14:24:06+00:00

Sex for pleasure is one thing and completely fine.

Cheating is a completely different animal.

HaveYouTriedScience · 2013-07-03T14:35:41+00:00

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zionController · 2013-07-03T21:29:44+00:00

The guys who want to have sex with as many women as possible aren't the ones shaming women for being sluts. Fallacious question

2013-07-03T17:33:32+00:00

Most people here are not anti-slut as such, they just feel that such women form poor partners for long term relationships.

tomganks · 2013-07-04T02:41:49+00:00

As for why society shames promiscuous women and celebrates promiscuous men I would simply say that people tend to respect difficult feats. How difficult is it for a decent looking woman to have as many sexual partners as she desires? How easy is it for a guy?

Look at the gay community. I would bet that you can count the number of men alive on planet earth who have slept with over 1000 different women on two hands. In the gay community men with over 1000 sexual partners are not difficult to find at all.

Scarlett_Begonias · 2013-07-05T15:13:16+00:00

I'm a big believer in leaving the "seducer" out of the equation when assigning blame for cheating. What happens in a 2 person relationship depends on those two people - it's between them. Whether the cheater is a man or a woman, they're the one breaking the promise they made. (In a non-monogamous relationship, in which they've made no such promise, I don't think "cheating" is immoral or disgusting or anything like that.)

Basically, if you're not in the relationship, you have no obligation to respect or even know its rules. Sleeping with someone else's partner is not really a moral transgression, although you could argue that knowingly helping someone else commit a moral transgression is still not exactly admirable. I don't sleep with other girls' boyfriends just because it complicates things, but if my boyfriend sleeps with some other girl, whether that's acceptable is between me and him and I don't waste my effort being mad at her.

JimmyTheIntern · 2013-07-03T17:47:33+00:00

It seems subscribers...

Ok, you can just stop there. Quotes or GTFO.

2013-07-04T06:31:57+00:00

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tryagenderswap · 2013-07-03T15:03:22+00:00

[permanently deleted]

RedeemingVices · 2013-07-03T14:50:36+00:00

Soooo what if the woman isn't cheating on anyone? She's seducing men but doesn't have any commitment to anyone? Would she still get shamed?

EtovNowd · 2013-07-04T00:59:20+00:00

Age old argument, here's the solution:

It's a value based system. That which requires more talent/skill has more inherent value.

Therefore a woman sleeping with 100 guys is no more talent related that me taking a piss standing up a hundred times. So why should I congratulate her on this miniscule accomplishment?

A man sleeping with 100 girls is a talent, because it required some sort of skill based on social stigma. To counter-point this, if a celebrity (rich and successful) or a model-looking male said he banged >1000, this also wouldn't be an accomplishment because I'd expect it to be easy given your lot in life. Thus when an average man brags, it's a skill, but when he's above average, it's no longer a skill.

Real men don't shame women for sleeping around, we just acknowledge that it requires no talent to do so and so don't care to listen to it.

It seems subscribers congratulate each other when someone has sex with a woman who is in a relationship

Analogy: When there's a goalie, it doesn't mean I can't score. It just means it requires more effort. Also, it's not my concern for her to be faithful, that's a commitment she made, therefore she should honor it. I made no such commitment and therefore don't have to that commitment.

Why perpetuate the problem?

There is problem. Guys banging married/committed women, and then saying "I don't want a gf because I know they aren't faithful" isn't perpetuating the problem. It's solving it, the more women there are free from relationships, the less there are moral qualms about her/them cheating.

NohjEdo · 2013-07-04T02:15:44+00:00

I'll attempt to pose this question another way. Would an egg be considered quality if it accepted all sperm that attempted to fertilize it regardless of their genetic fitness. An in opposition to this would a sperm cell that was accepted by all eggs it attempted to fertilize by considered more or less fit genetically? I think that often times we try to complicate things using emotion, societal and cultural norms when really most questions can be answered by boiling them down to their simplest abstraction.

TheGulDukatOfRedPill · 2013-07-04T03:40:11+00:00

How does one go about "shaming" some woman that I don't even know? If a woman feels "ashamed" of her behavior, what does that have to do with me?

scarabic · 2013-07-05T18:03:04+00:00

The "goal" isn't to sleep with as many women as possible. It's to propagate his genes as widely as possible. This means controlling as many females as possible and dedicating their reproductive resources to his genes. Yes, this means sleeping with a lot of women. A lot of women who are NOT sleeping with anyone else.

It's a double standard, but so is the fact that men can procreate 15 times a day and women can only do so about once a year. This is a biological inequity and it gets played out as a set of social inequities.

junoguten · 2013-07-05T22:46:48+00:00

IMO there's the question of responsibility. The responsibility of a single person is to not sleep with the girlfriends of your friends. The responsibility of someone in a relationship is that + not to cheat. Relationships these days are too complicated to be holding third parties that may or may not know what they're doing responsible.

The whole equal comparizon thing I agree it sort of a double standard. There's the whole she contributes offspring and him food thing, but you're right on that. Child support kind of changes the dynamic in practice today though, but not yet the psychology of it.

Hypnot0ad · 2013-07-03T18:10:05+00:00

I feel like we are being very hypocritical here. We get angry that women ride the cock carousel when they are young and their SMV is high, but when we get older and discover that our SMV is peaking we do exactly the same thing!

2013-07-03T16:16:33+00:00

Your goal is to have sex with as many women in relationships as possible? Is it a fetish of yours?

VeryWideDoucheNozzle · 2013-07-03T20:51:28+00:00

Its a personal preference; get over it.

Its equivalent of a girl who is 4'11" tall but will only date guys who are 6' or taller.

Ragnar09 · 2013-07-03T22:51:52+00:00

'A key that can open many locks is called a master key, but a lock that can be opened by many keys is a shitty lock.'

2013-07-04T04:04:51+00:00

A key that can open many locks is called a master key, but a lock that can be opened by many keys is a shitty lock.

sonnydays2 · 2013-07-04T05:55:00+00:00

Because symbolically speaking, a lock that opens up to many keys is not as useful as a key that opens up many locks!

FatHat · 2013-07-04T04:33:56+00:00

Is it really the men shaming the women though?

I'm not saying that men are never involved in the process, yet "slut" seems like a label made by women for other women, the fact that men sometimes adopt it just seems like collateral damage.

Clauderoughly · 2013-07-03T16:56:42+00:00

Because..

FEMINISM ! FUCK YOU, MALE SCUM!

Title	If your goal is to have sex with as many women as possible, why do you shame women who have sex with as many men as possible?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	54
Comments	161
Date	July 3, 2013 1:38 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1hkdlh/if_your_goal_is_to_have_sex_with_as_many_women_as/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/if-your-goal-is-to-have-sex-with-as-many-women-as.5253 https://theredarchive.com/post/5253

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