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University of Tennessee tells staff and students to stop using 'he' and 'she' - and switch to 'xe', 'zir' and 'xyr' instead

EvilPundit

August 29, 2015
82 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3214567/University-Tennessee-tells-staff-students-stop-using-switch-xe-zir-xyr-instead.html
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Title University of Tennessee tells staff and students to stop using 'he' and 'she' - and switch to 'xe', 'zir' and 'xyr' instead
Author

EvilPundit

Upvotes 82
Comments 56
Date August 29, 2015 4:16 AM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3it96i/university_of_tennessee_tells_staff_and_students/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/university-of-tennessee-tells-staff-and-students.972364
https://theredarchive.com/post/972364
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Comments

[–]rg57 23 points24 points25 points 10 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

I am gay. Fuck that.

There is already a suitable word called the "singular they" and it works just like the "singular you". We don't need to invent ridiculous words.

I am so embarrassed this has anything to do with gay people.

This is NOT what we were fighting for.

Please continue with roll call.

[+]Grapeban -34 points-33 points-32 points 10 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

I am so embarrassed this has anything to do with gay people.

It doesn't, this is a trans rights issue, you are in no position to speak on it.

[–]Azothlike 22 points23 points24 points 10 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Anybody being told to change their language choices is in a position to speak on it.

For an exaggerated example of your silly thought process: "I have brown hair. Brown haired people are now legally allowed to pickpocket anyone. If you don't have brown hair, you don't get to talk about this new law."

[+]Grapeban -25 points-24 points-23 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Fine, I alter my words, this has as much to do with the (cis) gay community as the (cis) straight community. I'm tired of gay people speaking out on trans issues as if they're authorities, especially when they demonstrate a clear lack of understanding.

Meanwhile, glad to see /mr is making a bold stand in defence of trans men! /s

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+]Grapeban -18 points-17 points-16 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Nor are any of us planning on "making a bold stand in defence of trans men"

Right, because /r/mensrights is really/r/cismensrights.

[–]Azothlike 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

If your idea of defending trans men(less than 33% of the trans community, by all surveyed counts, and less than 0.5% of all men) is restricting the rights of all men so they don't get offended, then no. I don't defend them on this issue. And either should /MR

[+]Grapeban -18 points-17 points-16 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes, asking you (without making any laws) to consider using gender neutral pronouns (including they if you want) and to remember that someone's appearance may not match their gender identity (as may be the case for trans men) is totally restricting the me.

[–]TracyMorganFreeman 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You don't need a special pronoun to acknowledge transmen.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]thegreyhoundness 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I totally agree. I can't believe tuition has gone up to the point where some people spend the rest of their lives after school trying to pay off their student loans... Yet universities are actually paying people like this insane woman to come up with this crap.

[–]Bwhitty23 12 points13 points14 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

At what point does the society wide "fuck it" happen and stop giving in? Fuck me man this is really happening.

[–]bertreapot 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

it says in the article that the university declared that this was only "guidance" after there was a backlash. so people are actually starting to stand up and fight back, if only to the most ludicrous elements of the modern feminist movement.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Bwhitty23 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Technology I believe has slowed evolution for man. We've been stagnant. Now I'm not some Luddite as I love technology but we must realise that our society while amazing(sometimes) is living in a time with unprecedented peace. We have a fairly well ran society(in the west) yet we circle the drain by fooling ourselves that we're in danger.

[–]fnork 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Some kind of purge" is not a good approach because it is antagonistic. The best I can think of doing to counter the bat shit crazy idea that the article describes, is to make sure I affiliate with rational people and show my immediate surroundings that using normal english pronouns is totally safe and fine.

[–][deleted] 25 points26 points27 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

xyr is still too masculine: XY chromosomes.

[–]garglemesh42 17 points18 points19 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree. We should switch to entirely new pronouns, such as:

rwouipqertr, safdetghgd, and buoezeruog.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

This redacted-gender person with breasts needs to keep zir stupid thoughts to zirself.

Do yourself a favour and read that aloud to yourself. If you laugh or groan, you are a stable human being and there's hope for you.

Meanwhile, for serious... does this school miss the point? I don't know any transgender people, but I imagine if I did, I wouldn't call them "he" or "she". I'd call them "you". Or, y'know, THEIR NAME. Duh-doy.

[–]garglemesh42 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If you laugh or groan, you are a stable human being and there's hope for you.

What if the stupidity made me angry?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I don't know if you're expressing broad frustration at the silliness of made-up gender words, or if you're directing an insult at me. Frankly, we've met before sir, and our last chat went about as well as poking a skunk with a stick. If it made you angry, then maybe you need anger management classes, because it's not really something worth getting mad about.

[–]garglemesh42 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Huh? I didn't even remember you until you said something. I was talking about the silliness of the made-up words.

My comment wasn't about you at all. If you want to make it personal, nobody's stopping you, but the comment was not meant to express anger toward you.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I was just checking, dude. Like I said, you didn't have very nice things to say to me last time. I'm not looking to make it personal, but I hope you can understand why I remember you better than you remember me. :(

At least we agree on something, though, right?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Donna Braquet ... More like Donna Banquet, amirite?

[–]Targren 22 points23 points24 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I have to agree with one thing on the UT page though.

“Oh, nice to meet you, [insert name]. What pronouns should I use?” is a perfectly fine question to ask.

It's absolutely a great question. Ask it, and if the answer is anything other than "What, are you a fucking idiot?" you know that you can go through life completely ignoring that person, and lose nothing of value.

[–]OtakuSRL 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

"Nice to meet you scary buff biker looking guy, what pronoun do you use?" 10/10

[–]WaitingToBeBanned 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Mistress"

[–]nick012000 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I dunno. A lot of people aren't going to say that, just think it, and then answer with "he" or "she".

[–]OsoFeo 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm OK with using the gender-specific pronoun of a person's choice. I don't buy into the fantasy that surgically altering ones genitalia and medically altering ones hormonal profile changes ones sex, but I certainly believe in common courtesy. I've known at least one FTM who I genuinely liked, and though I don't entirely agree with his choices, I certainly had no desire to offend him or make him feel uncomfortable.

Where I draw the line is using coercive tactics (i.e. enlisting the power of the state or a large institution) to force people into using made-up pronouns. This imposes a huge cognitive burden, almost akin to forcing English speakers to use the word "le" instead of "the" as a definite article, upon pain of official censure. This is where the trans community displays their absolute disregard for other people.

[–]Corn-Tortilla 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The only response I can be bothered with is...

Oh fuck off!

[–]EvilPundit[S] 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

At first I thought this had to be a joke - being on the Daily Mail and all - but there's a link to the actual university website that shows it's serious.

[–]newharddrive 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Sorry, but this is not how human languages work. You can't just order people to use certain words, comrade!

Way to go! Donna

[–]IcarusBurning 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

doubleplusgood comment.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Imagine how much more welcoming campuses would be for men, women, LGBT, etc etc if they fired all these superfluous hangers on and dropped tuition fees accordingly.

[–]HeroicPopsicle 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The only pronouns ill ever use is He/she stuff, if a person is transgendered, ill agree to that. But the moment someone demands i call them something ike xe or zir (in sweden we have 'hen' which is a combination of Han (him) and Hon (her), basically a combo of it to gender neutralize it, hate people who use it, always seems to come from pompous people as well.),

God dammit, seriously cant understand what sort of special snowflake superiority 'the universe better tailor itself to me' bullshit this is about...

[–]SlimThugga 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If gender identity is such a big deal for transsexuals (since that's what this policy would be, lipservice to them), why deny it for everyone else? I don't understand. MTF transsexuals insist on being called female pronouns. FTM transsexuals insist on being called male pronouns. So why can't regular people have their gender identity verbally validated as well?

[–]rocelot7 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Can I still call ze a cunt?

[–]Keiichi81 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"More inclusive" to these SJW idiots seems to mean "everyone walking on eggshells with a constant sense of unease," because that's exactly what this sort of compulsory "sensitivity" accomplishes.

[–]xynomaster 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Does this really matter? Does it discriminate against men in any way?

[–]rg57 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Of course it matters.

First, it's a gender issue, and therefore involves men.

Second, you can bet that men's speech usage will be monitored far more closely, due to being part of the "privileged class".

Third, it suggests ways that speech might be used to advantage men. Universities are places where women receive extra advantage. If gender is to be ASKED of the student, pretty much each time, then it can't easily be the basis of special treatment. Men could choose to decline specifying a gender on documents, consistent with the example set by this policy. Or men could choose the ugly-but-useful Huckabee approach of simply declaring themselves female. Similarly, if women advantaged by their gender choose non-female pronouns, this should reasonably lead to a claim of fraud.

[–]Insula92 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No it discriminates against common sense and normalcy.

[–]jakelove12 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is a more tumblrinaction post.

It doesn't belong here.

[–]hidden_but_true 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't think so.

In fact, as far as reforms go, it seems perfectly benign and even handed.

The worst that can be said about it is that it might be too much effort for too little benefit.

(Or maybe I am wrong :P I'd love to hear an explanation of the people who oppose this)

[–]mikesteane 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Reading Nineteen Eighty-Four should tell you what is dangerous about people who try to control language.

[–]iainmf 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm going to demand to be referred to in third person all the time. No pronouns for you!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Literally. No pronouns for "you".

[–]deathdragon5858 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My only explaination is the cholesterol must have been starving the oxygen to her little brain for years.

[–]Zealsc 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I get a brain aneurysm while I'm reading that shit.

[–]steagles1 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well I'm glad I chose to go to Louisville rather than Tennessee.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is the stupidest thing I've seen today

[–]ThePigmanAgain 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Woody Allen once said great beauty drives a woman insane. I'm starting to think it's the other way round -- being fat and plain is what really drives a woman insane.

[–]TracyMorganFreeman 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Anyone who tells me that as a formal policy would be met with "Stop policing gender you self righteous hypocrites."

[–]caius_iulius_caesar 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd like to see them try enforcing that in Tennessee. Ha.

[–]DroogDim -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I's tell 'em to shove it up there ass. Public schools are subject to the 1st Amendment.

[–]Tmomp -5 points-4 points-3 points 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

I disagree with people complaining here about gender neutral pronouns. I would prefer English had them. I know "they" and "their" work, usually, but I would consider new words a benefit. I like that English now has Ms, not just Miss and Mrs.

I agree wholeheartedly about the criticism of the authoritarian implementation. A school that can punish you telling people what words to use undermines their message of non-oppression.

"One way to do that is to use a student’s chosen name and their correct pronouns"

Who defines "correct"? If person A prefers one pronoun, but person B is speaking and prefers a different pronoun, why should Person A's choice dominate? Why shouldn't A have to accept B's choice?

You can avoid this debate by allowing people to speak how they want without an authority imposing its will and threat of punishment on people. There's a reason people rarely use "he" for females and "she" for males and it's not an institution telling them how to speak. People want to be understood.

The school could just suggest the practice instead of using imperatives like

"In the first weeks of classes, instead of calling roll, ask everyone to provide their name and pronouns"

[–]docalypse 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't have the fucking time or patience to memorize every person I meet with silly pronouns. I have trouble remembering names as it is. The only thing this serves is to inflate a special snowflake mentality, which quite frankly can fuck off.

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