As a woman, I feel the need to apologise.

stoawayaccount · 2015-05-13T06:51:25+00:00

Don't apologize. You didn't do anything. You don't owe anyone anything because of something your gender did. You are not defined by what someone else did. Instead read up on the subject. Do what you can. Vote when you can to promote equality. Donate to causes that help with it. Advocate and stand behind those who deserve it. But don't apologize. It helps no one. I'm a 20 year old women. And I strongly support men's rights. But you have to understand that saying sorry isn't the way to go. By standing up for equality you are already doing more than feminists are. You are helping the cause. You are one more voice that can be heard. Just make sure you are taking the steps to make your voice heard. You aren't an ally. You are part of the movement. :) You are not your gender, and you don't have to apologize for being a women. That's not what this movement is about.

Timotheusss · 2015-05-13T09:31:28+00:00

The fact that you are a woman in no way bounds you to moronic feminists, in the exact same way that me having a penis does not bound me to rapists and misogynists. So please, do not apologist, for you have nothing to apologise for.

We're just happy you view the world as we do.

AtomicBLB · 2015-05-13T13:04:39+00:00

"stop that, they've been oppressing us for centuries, it's our turn now"

Think that really sums up the anger and rage from self proclaimed Feminists. They want to punish men for the mistakes of the past, against those who had nothing to do with it. For oppression that no longer exists in the western world.

You don't have to apologize for things you are not responsible for, although the thought is appreciated.

matrix2002 · 2015-05-13T13:07:21+00:00

An apology isn't necessary, but I do appreciate the sentiment.

The best thing you can do in my opinion is speak up when you are around feminists who are being sexist or racist.

They need to realize that they can't shout down people who disagree with them.

Speak up for true equality and justice, it will go a long way.

2015-05-13T07:06:10+00:00

Definitely don't need to apologize for anyone. We are all on this world together, equally. You just have extremist on one end and rational minded individuals on the other.

Consider yourself on the side that matters. As a female, you will go far in America, and accomplish all those goals which you set your mind to.

You will meet assholes, both males and females, which will try to keep you down, but do the best by you and ignore the rest.

notnotnotfred · 2015-05-13T06:46:09+00:00

You do not owe anyone an apology because you're male or female.

You'd be ill advised to subscribe to feminism.

Read the FAQ.

Read Asche Schow's work, as well as Christina Hoff Sommers, Karen Straughan, and other names mentioned in the FAQ.

goodfoobar · 2015-05-13T13:29:17+00:00

I think most men here can understand a compulsive need to apologize for circumstances beyond their control and for things that they did not actually do. Just realize that you only need to apologize for things that you want to take responsibility for and I don't think your responsible for the situation your describing.

2015-05-13T13:52:48+00:00

The same way I don't feel responsible for the "patriarchy" of the past, you shouldn't feel responsible for idiot women of the modern world.

Don't worry about it, just be a cool person!

ky_windage · 2015-05-13T11:53:28+00:00

Honestly, I've never met someone with your perspective so take this with a grain of salt. My advise would be to get a degree in a STEM field (universities are throwing millions at women who go into engineering), or at least and MBA (non-humanities degree). Then graduate into that field. The long term goal would be management in a professional male environment as a positive female influence near men who (speaking as a man who works in a factory) have REALLY bad luck dealing with women. An influence like that has a good chance of stopping suicides without you ever knowing.

2015-05-13T13:48:01+00:00

Well considering your age and your disposition I find it very unlikely that youve done anything you need to apologize for; so, while the sentiment is appreciated, don't worry about apologies.

I don't know how I'm supposed to

It's not like I'm anyone special (and no one who should be telling you what to do) but if you are looking for ideas on what you can do, here are a few suggestions:

Start up a Youtube channel and make contact with the Honey Badgers and other similar users. Youtube lasts forever and you can help be a voice against the feminist tide.
Don't worry about convincing the already converted feminists. But don't be afraid to engage in conversation with those on the fence, or even those who seem to have feminist sympathies (like I used to).
Take a page from C.H.Sommers and remain polite and factual when your enemies seek to rile you up or bring emotions into the conversation. When you're calm and they're frothing at the mouth, you will appear to be correct by sheer comparison.

sillymod · 2015-05-13T14:00:17+00:00

Just as men don't deserve the blame for the actions of others, you are not responsible for apologizing for your gender.

Do good deeds, be a good person, treat people fairly. That is all anyone can ask. Defending the rights of men and women, though, helps.

AntiMarxismeCulturel · 2015-05-13T07:42:55+00:00

Nice post. You give me some hope in humanity. Nice to see there is some intelligent women out there with a good heart. No need for apology. MRA don't hate women. We hate misandry and the ideology of supremacist-feminism that has infected the governments, medias, court systems, politics, pop-culture, etc..

MRSPArchiver · 2015-05-13T06:35:35+00:00

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

Thrug · 2015-05-13T08:13:36+00:00

I think you mean "developed world"?

Personally I think the best way to help is to speak out in public. Specifically those situations where nobody else is. Be wary of echo chambers, since they don't really help.

goatsandbros · 2015-05-13T13:45:23+00:00

In my own opinion, the best thing to do is stick with what you believe to be right and speak up when it seems like a good thing to do. Radical feminism and many other mislead ideals are often best met by assured rationality.

Above all, try and not "fight back" in an alienating way if at all possible. I believe what any rights movement should work toward is the reconciliation of people, not just "being right" and "winning." Finally "use as many quotation marks as 'possible.'" (That last point might be a joke :)

Edit: to echo what others have said also: thank you for apologizing, but you have nothing for which you must apologize. You are a fellow human being, and you haven't done anything wrong just because of what some who are concidentally of the same sex as you have done. Thank you for your heartfelt words and desire to better things!

DavidByron2 · 2015-05-13T17:26:19+00:00

I understand the feeling you need to apologize, but obviously you are the last person that needs to apologize for sexism.

obviously an apology on behalf of all women was not the way to go about this

Some of us are a bit sensitive to putting all of women or all of men in a boat together. I mean I could apologize for all the men too if you like, because most of them don't get it either. I know it's a bit different because constantly you are told that feminism and all that "represents" women. It doesn't represent women, and it clearly doesn't represent you.

BagelBenny · 2015-05-13T22:15:22+00:00

I for one appreciate the sentiment but we're not looking to be placated. We're not about placing blame or saying 'shame on women' we're about trying to fix the problems we have in a calm and reasonable manner. You don't need to feel bad just for being a woman that's the exact kind of stereotyping and guilt tripping that people against the MRM use against men. Thank you again but never apologize for something beyond your control.

TheCitizenAct · 2015-05-13T23:05:27+00:00

Even this part doesn't resemble reality: "stop that, they've been oppressing us for centuries, it's our turn now"

The suffragette movement in the UK was originally only for upper-class women, they didn't die for their rights (with the exception of one suffragette who committed suicide). The only reason men were granted universal suffrage 10 years before women was because they died in their MILLIONS during WW1 - they then campaigned on behalf of women to extend the franchise. What the feminist narrative also conveniently forgets is that many women had the right to vote long before universal suffrage was extended to men.

The entire legal system, away from John Stuart Mill's proclamations about female subjugation, was biased in favour of women, even at the turn of the 20th century. As was culture. Read 'the legal subjugation of men', a book written by two barristers in late nineteenth century/early twentieth century England. It demonstrates just how much privilege the legal system afforded women, to the point men were responsible for absolutely every debt they ever ran up, how it was entirely illegal to send a girl down the deadly coal mines but it was perfectly legal to push the extremity on boys form the age of 10.

If a man was found to have bested his wife in a fight, he would be tied to a pole and flogged. The only reason they didn't shoot him was because he had to provide for his wife. If a woman was found to have bested a man in a fight, he would be tied to a cart and driven through the village while the entire community smacked him with pots and pans.

"By express enactment," the authors observe, "no one but a male can he sentenced to corporal punishment" (p50). Unfortunately, Bax et al do not name the statute in question (The Whipping of Female Offenders Abolition Act 1820).

Thus, at the time the authors were writing, the whipping of women had been prohibited for over eighty years - yet "Men and boys... are, flogged like dogs for the most trivial disrespect to the governor and other officials" (p150).

Modern feminists sometimes claim that, in the nineteenth century, women 'were denied property rights'. This belief stems from a misunderstanding of the doctrine of coverture, whereby the legal personalities of man and wife were subsumed.

Actually, coverture applied only to married women. Unmarried women always had the same property rights as unmarried men.

Moreover, husbands were under a legal obligation to maintain their wives. As a result, married men's property rights were also strictly delimited as their property could be seized by the courts on their wife's behalf.

As Bax and his co-author observe, "As against her husband, the law confers upon a woman who has married him the unilateral privilege of maintenance" (p6) and "the most violent methods, including imprisonment and sequestration of the property of the husband, are employed to enforce her claim" (p7). Thus, he is reduced to "her earning slave, bound to work for her or go to prison" (Ibid.).

In contrast, "A wife, no matter if rolling in wealth, is not obliged to contribute a penny to her husband's support, even if he be incapacitated from work through disease or accident" (p7) and "by the Married Women's Property Acts [which granted independent property rights to women] a woman has complete control over all property acquired or inherited by her in any way, free from any claim on the part of her husband" (p8).

The authors reports, "Any woman, by the asking for it, can get a summary separation and confiscation of her husband's property, and an order for her maintenance out of his earnings from the nearest police court" and "this process, which costs only a few shillings, the husband has to pay for" (p12).

In contrast, however, "No man can obtain a divorce except... at a minimum charge of forty pounds" (p12) - at that time, equivalent to a year's wages for many working men. Thus, " the man is in a state of legal subjection to his wife" (p13).

Keep in mind - this was the 19th century.

In gist, it's all nonsense. The only reason women didn't work all throughout history was because the VAST majority of the work was manual labour, which men were more suited to (for obvious reasons). Second reason was the biological imperative - one man can impregnate thousands of women, but one woman can only give birth to so many children. That privilege is the greatest in society, and helped foster an entire society formed around the notion 'women and children first.'

Men are now, and always have been, perhaps always will be, entirely disposable and valued only for their utility. Then again, we also accept this - it's only since every supposed evil committed by masculinity has been flung in our face, and feminists have exploited every single social narrative in existence to tarnish and demonise all of masculinity, that men have started to push back.

wisty · 2015-05-14T01:43:45+00:00

Most men and women aren't crazy. If you look at internet comments, you're looking at a lot of things people wrote when they were "passionate" (a euphemism for "too angry to think straight"), and often the dumbest comments are the ones you really notice.

2015-05-13T11:14:26+00:00

You give me hope, but you have nothing to apologise for. Thank you, though.

IcarusBurning · 2015-05-13T18:37:16+00:00

Am I the only one here that thinks that this post was perfectly crafted to speak to the issues that we talk about a lot frequently in here? Sorry, but this post just seems a bit too engineered.

blamb211 · 2015-05-13T16:23:32+00:00

I think the "It's our turn now" argument is completely ridiculous. It gives away what their attitude is. If people calling themselves "feminists" actually were about equality, they wouldn't care about about having a turn on top. That's not equality. It's not even anything that has personally affected them. Chances are, especially if they live in the US, there have been very, very few negative things that have happened purely because they're a woman. It's just a bullshit argument, and pokes a billions holes in the "I'm about equality" attitude.

Obviously, there are feminists that are for real equality, and this isn't about them. I'm talking about the tumblr feminists that get off on putting men down in every little way they can, then bragging about it for attention and reblogs.

2015-05-13T14:40:51+00:00

Glad to have you here, welcome!

MagicalPowerfulEvil · 2015-05-13T18:40:20+00:00

I'm old enough to know that these things ebb and flow. Things maybe a little extreme now but cooler heads will prevail. Honestly, this is probably the best time to be alive throughout all of human history.

fighting harder and stronger

We're not a war! Those are very aggressive words for engaging people. It's better to be reasonable and understanding. If both sides have extreme views, people in the middle won't identify with either side.

wazzup987 · 2015-05-13T20:10:28+00:00

Start a blog, target it at women, men will watch too because we in the MRM tend to follow a lot mrm channels. but try to come up with messaging that will appeal to women. you might want to talk to /u/typhonblue or /u/girlwriteswhat

PianoVampire · 2015-05-13T20:23:52+00:00

Girl, you're awesome! You don't need to apologize for anything. As for what you can do, don't take gender studies courses, and (this may sound like the biggest dead-horse-beatery out there) show that you're a women against feminism. Maybe, maybe, maybe, someday, in the distant future, probably on mars, feminists will realize that women in the western world are really well off.

AugmentedFury · 2015-05-13T20:39:21+00:00

No need to apologize. You did nothing wrong. It's nice to see a female who understands the issues plaguing society.

2015-05-13T21:23:58+00:00

You are one in a million, OP. I wish there were more people like yourself, both female AND male (plenty of male feminism apologists). Won't say anything else as it has been said already, but thank you for your kind words and sentiment.

iehava · 2015-05-14T02:46:05+00:00

As most others have already said, there is no need to apologize. There are other women out there as well who feel like you do, and many others who are oblivious but nonetheless don't buy into feminist ideology.

I will say this though: We need you. We need you, and women like you, who see what is really going on and are willing to say something. When men talk about Men's Rights issues, criticize feminism, or call out sexism against men they are not usually taken very seriously. But when there are women who are brave enough to speak out on these matters, people cannot blow them off as easily. There's a reason the /u/girlwriteswhat's and Christina Hoff Sommers's - women who see what's going on, are well educated on the issue, and are willing to publicly comment - are absolutely vital to our cause.

So, please: keep reading, keep learning, question everything, and keep speaking up.

DarthSunshine · 2015-05-14T02:48:34+00:00

/u/beetlejuice8, thank you for this. You don't need to apologize, but it's nice to know that there are other people like me/us around the world.

shinarit · 2015-05-13T09:04:28+00:00

No, this is not. I have no idea why anyone upvotes you. Actually I have some ideas, but it's just sad. You didn't do anything worth apologizing for (or didn't admit it in the post), and considering yourself a sinner for your sex is something feminists do and we try to avoid. The other possibility is that you don't consider yourself faulty, then it's pure attention whoring in the "see guys I'm a good one" sense.

We see the same fucking thing when white dudes apologize for being white, or men apologize for being men. No, just don't. It's not good for anyone, shouldn't be encouraged, and stop craving attention and acceptance.

Funcuz · 2015-05-13T15:08:07+00:00

Absolutely no need whatsoever to apologize. Your support is appreciated but you didn't do anything wrong and therefore have no reason to apologize on behalf of women or yourself.

Macismyname · 2015-05-13T15:15:26+00:00

You don't need to apologize on behalf of you gender just as we don't need to apologize on behalf of ours.

Being an open minded and equality striving person makes you awesome in my book.

kngc · 2015-05-13T08:58:31+00:00

I don't think radical feminists make up the majority of feminism, though. They might be the loudest and bring the most attention on the topic, but they don't really understand what feminism means, therefore forcing the movement a step backward and giving feminism a bad name. I guess maybe kinda like religious extremists. I think the general consensus among real feminists is this--a simple google search for the definition of feminism: "the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men." It doesn't say anywhere that feminists think women should overpower men, nor oppress men, nor become the dominant sex. I do think that wage gap may be a myth nowadays, however, how the media in the US exacerbates the objectification of women is detrimental to both women and men. That's not to say that men are not objectified as well, because they are. However, there is a double-standard of being highly sexual if you are female, whereas with males, it is a positive and encouraged thing to be sexual. I also feel like it's unfair for women's bodies to regulated as much as it is now, regarding abortion. I think it's just a very touchy and complicated topic.

Title	As a woman, I feel the need to apologise.
Author	beetlejuice8
Upvotes	147
Comments	76
Date	May 13, 2015 6:35 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/35sz1u/as_a_woman_i_feel_the_need_to_apologise/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/as-a-woman-i-feel-the-need-to-apologise.980435 https://theredarchive.com/post/980435

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