Hiding Bitcoin

omgitsr0b · 2023-03-22T03:44:05+00:00

You should have protected your seed phrase better. I’m sorry you lost it.

upvotersfortruth · 2023-03-22T07:02:09+00:00

Hiding assets is almost always a bad idea. Not accurately disclosing assets is almost always a bad idea. But each individual decides where they draw the line and I certainly don't blame you for the instinct.

Generally speaking, the court has the discretion to make up for any "lost" assets by disproportionately distributing the estate. The question would then be valuing the "lost" asset.

Jbr74 · 2023-03-22T15:41:44+00:00

Your going to get every answer here from "disclose everything" to "definitely hide it".

The same could be said for a lot of questions (especially financial questions) on this subreddit.

But everyone's divorce is different, our exes' are different, our divorces are different, and the lawyers are different.

First, you have not said how much bitcoin, you say sizable.

For some sizeable is $5,000 for some its $5,000,000

So that's a factor.

Your ex, how much does she know about the bitcoin, did you talk about it regularly, or is she oblivious to it? And if she knows about it, does she know the value of it?

How far into "financial discovery" are you guys going to get. Is it just going to be your lawyer and her lawyer submitting papers to each other and they are easily accepted? Or are you going to have auditors and forensic accountants involved?

Are you, or might you actually be going to trial if actual judge is involved at all in the discovery, hiding stuff from your wife's lawyer is one thing, hiding it from a judge is another.

I think the main this is the financial discovery. My personal one was super easy and almost a joke, to be honest. On a scale of 0-100 of being thorough, it was a 1.

In my case, by the time we got divorced, I really didn't have much to hide if I wanted. However I "could have" hidden an elephant, (had I had one) because it was glossed over. She wanted a quick divorce, and she asked for it.

But some guys have accountants going over their finances with a fine tooth comb, and unless you have Saul Goodman as your lawyer you are going to be lucky to hide the change in your couch.

Is your ex ruthless about financial stuff? Did she mainly handle the finances or was it you?

There are so many little variables, only you know that we don't.

If I were in your situation, I would probably roll the dice and go for it.

But I can't say that for you, because your circumstances are not mine.

Bottom line, how much snooping and digging is going to happen in your divorce?

Then weigh the risks.

pk2at · 2023-03-22T15:30:30+00:00

Forensic accountants are useless, they need a court order to compel discovery of assets, which is another 6 month wait here. Just move your money to another account, convert to BTC and close that account, let her and her lawyer sweat it out trying to trace

SweatySpecialist · 2023-03-22T04:38:18+00:00

You must be in CA, not many states left that do lifetime alimony. Hard to believe that’s still a thing.

Whether you lose it or not the court can hold you to it if she testifies to an amount. So if she says you have 5 BTC then the judge can say that is evidence enough and stick that amount on your side of the equation. But if you show statements where you purchased it and it shows only 2 bitcoin then you have a much better chance to only be assessed for two. But it really just depends on the judge, and the amounts. It costs money to subpoena records and produce statements if you are not cooperative. Unless it’s a large amount they probably won’t go past a simple discovery. But if you are uncooperative then be prepared to hand over 75% or more of everything and once you’re a pariah in the courts eyes they will forever blackball you. So probably not worth it if there’s any chance of that.

lordrognoth · 2023-03-22T09:32:20+00:00

I'd be worried that if you said you lost the key, they can still monitor the wallet, which basically means you can never remove the coins without them knowing about it. Might be better to just declare a small amount that is entirely removed from the original source.

wisstinks4 · 2023-03-22T14:27:38+00:00

If you’re working the bitcoin angle and you have a website that has a username and password an auditor will find it. I don’t recommend trying to hide assets because if you’re caught, a judge will not look favorably upon you. Send us an update, hopefully you’re not in jail.

BlackFire68 · 2023-03-22T13:07:23+00:00

So, for everyone that says “hide your assets”, can you please explain how? That is, for the average Joe with a salary / hourly wage job… how exactly does one move money so that it isn’t found? Most companies require direct deposit. Every move out of that account is tracked.

Talk me though it folks…

Even the self-employed have revenue reported on a tax return.

CaliDude75 · 2023-03-22T14:13:54+00:00

I would try to offer a preemptive settlement and avoid discovery if you can. That's what I did, and I'm glad that's what I chose. Saved me a lot of headaches and legal fees.

AudreyTooTwo · 2023-03-22T15:08:25+00:00

I speak from experience. Really. Several years ago, Bitcoin was largely traded between individuals, not institutions or brokerages. There were (and still are a few) websites out there where you can find individuals willing to buy/sell BTC. In fact, it's become a cottage industry for some people: to run a private money exchange out of their bedroom. There are people who will accept cash, crypto, PayPal, cash apps, money orders, bank deposits, even Amazon or American Express Gift cards and other tangible items.

In return, they'll exchange any of these things for anything in the list, so you can buy, sell, trade anything with them.

Some Cons: They will take a big cut for their services, like 10% or more, but they negotiate. These are strangers and you have to trust them. But some websites give you their history and rating. I've actually never had a problem with getting ratfucked on a deal. Once I found a few good traders, I started small and slowly trusted them more and more. I once sold $12k of BTC and I met the dude in a well-lit, crowded coffee shop in Los Angeles. He brought crisp, new 100 dollar notes. Easy-peasy. I've bought BTC the same way, laptop in hand so I can see my wallet.

The Pros: The service, if done correctly, can be 100% anonymous. You can use anonymous e-mail (I like Yandex because they're Russian; good luck sending them a subpoena) and a VPN. You can get a burner phone for texting. A Bitcoin wallet is anonymous if you set it up yourself and keep it in cold storage and keep the keys to yourself. Money Orders are anonymous. Gift Cards are anonymous.

But that was then. Today, most people seem to be under the impression that you MUST use a brokerage or a coin desk. As someone who likes my privacy, I was shocked to see that brokerages ask you for all kinds of ID, including your SSN if you're American. Then, the IRS starts sniffing around. And brokerage accounts usually need to be connected to a real bank account.

I really am surprised that everyone has forgotten about private sellers. Everyone uses brokerages, THEN, they complain there is no privacy. I don't get it.

So, my bottom-line advice: Slowly take out bits of cash here and there. Never, ever use a brokerage. Buy anonymously from individuals with cash or money orders, and accumulate your coins in an anonymous cold wallet. There is open-source freeware out there that can generate a new wallet and seeds, and it can run OFF-LINE, so no one knows; it's not registered anywhere.

Bipolar_investor · 2023-03-22T03:32:03+00:00

Talk to your lawyer. Don't leave any trail (this one included)

ReallyLongBaguettes · 2023-03-22T04:10:44+00:00

Should squirreled money away and bought gold bullion to hide

ranger69danger · 2023-03-22T06:05:02+00:00

I do believe that a simple shell game play could help here.

NothingIsEverEnough · 2023-03-22T04:38:05+00:00

How did she buy the bitcoin?

The money came from somewhere. There is a record of that.

airblue23 · 2023-03-22T09:00:12+00:00

Won’t it appear in your tax returns anyway?

cryptus-maximus · 2023-03-22T16:41:35+00:00

To answer directly, it depends on how you purchased the BTC to begin with. Did you buy it on an exchange with KYC requirements? If so, then I would disclose it because the forensic accountant will be able to trace it. If you try hiding it and they find it, expect to be punished.

windowsfrozenshut · 2023-03-25T02:44:52+00:00

Use Bisq and convert it to Monero. Untraceable. You "lost your wallet keys".

Title	Hiding Bitcoin
Author	sparky1976
Upvotes	9
Comments	43
Date	March 22, 2023 2:25 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/Divorce_Men
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/Divorce_Men/comments/11y3rg2/hiding_bitcoin/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/Divorce_Men/hiding-bitcoin.1186761 https://theredarchive.com/post/1186761

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