Help

Xx_SwordWords_xX · 2022-09-20T17:35:43+00:00

Imagine staying with this guy and having kids, and then being stuck while you have to constantly argue that you are in fact also human.

spiraldinosaur · 2022-09-20T15:37:58+00:00

The problem here is that it's you posting here and not him. When he is ready to change his perspective and learn new ways of thinking, this is the exact group he needs and there are lots of sources online to help him learn how this content is manipulative and toxic. But if he's not seeing a problem, and he doesn't think he needs to change, then neither we nor you will be able to change him.

He's doing things that you find unattractive, he's putting up barriers, he's creating arguments where they don't need to do. He has values and beliefs that contrast your own. Why are you staying? Why are you settling for someone who you aren't actually compatible with? This feels like the classic "I can fix him" attitude but trust me, you can't fix someone who doesn't believe they need fixing.

There are lots and lots of videos on YouTube that tear down the likes of Andrew Tate and Fresh n Fit and whatever else. There are resources including resources linked from this sub. But as the old saying goes; you can take a misogynist to the library but you can't make him read feminist theory.

2022-09-20T14:57:49+00:00

Let's put some focus on a few things:

he listens to podcasts like fresh & fit

Any time the topic of gender comes up I feel like it’s very argumentative

I’m really struggling with all of this

I find it’s putting a barrier up between us

Im starting to find it really unattractive

this all goes against a lot of my beliefs & values

I’m nervous for it worsening, especially when he doesn’t see a problem with it

Any time i push back against this stuff it just leads to us disagreeing & talking in circles

I find debating it 100% exhausting

I’m growing more & more tired of the topic

I so deeply disagree with it all

This is all you not listening to the danger radar in your gut. You know the answer, which at the very least is a massive incompatibility. You know what you need to do, it might just be hard because we often don't want to 'start over' with someone new, especially after 18 months. Talking through things to find compatibility isn't a bad thing at all, but what do you do when you keep hitting brick walls?

As someone who has been there and spent the last 5 fucking years of my life dealing with this shit from multiple men...run. Run as fast as you can. I was diagnosed with C-PTSD after them all because they learn ways to bulldoze your boundaries and normal protective barriers in your values and morals. It only gets worse if you reward it by humouring it.

SweelFor- · 2022-09-20T16:50:09+00:00

I'm very sorry and I usually never say stuff like this, but you can leave now or you can wait and suffer for no reason, and then leave.

This is you posting this, not him, we can't help him through you and tbh you probably also can't help him at this point.

rhymeswithgarlic · 2022-09-20T18:50:10+00:00

Redpill men are mostly bitter, butt-hurt, emotionally immature and repressed man-children. They've been hurt in relationships with women, like all men have, but they've failed to own their contributions to the failures. They've learned nothing and have done no healing. They've not moved on from their negative experiences. Instead, they place all the blame on "women" and "society."

Their online activities are mostly validation-seeking. They're recruiting a fellowship of other train wrecks so they can all validate each other.

Sound like alpha to you? Nope, me neither.

sparklyyblueberryy · 2022-09-20T15:06:35+00:00

Leave

Impossible-Bank-1697 · 2022-09-20T15:23:54+00:00

Dump him he’s damage good.

RXCC00N · 2022-09-20T15:19:11+00:00

I’m definitely not at the point of breaking up but I’m nervous for it worsening, especially when he doesn’t see a problem with it.

ok because of this part

he doesn’t see a problem with it

you should re-evaluate this part

I’m definitely not at the point of breaking up

lilycamilly · 2022-09-20T17:21:19+00:00

You're so young, please don't waste any more time with him. You two are fundamentally incompatible.

SophiaPhilae · 2022-09-20T15:29:01+00:00

The first aid kit linked by automod is decent, it should be useful. But besides that, it could be interesting to get behind the points he makes—because he's just going to parrot them and hide behind the authority of their sources—and look at 1° his methods to receive and accept new information and ideas 2° what need is he trying to fulfill. That is, assuming you still have enough energy and motivation to try to steer him away from this content. I'm not saying you should, the rest of this message is if you want to try something.

For the first point, it's basically about information literacy. A quick search turned up decent-looking sources, but they seem geared towards younger people and those who teach them:

Another interesting source of inspiration is the historical method. You should get the idea. In the case of TRP content, it might be interesting to simply ask questions about where he got the points he's repeating, and then question those sources: how do they know so much, what are their sources, have you looked up those sources, what pushes those persons to spread TRP content, how do they earn money, might there not be a link between earning money and what they say or will avoid to say, etc. Similarly, he could fact-check things about the targets TRP demonizes, like liberals, feminists, ofc women, other men…

As for the second point, it might require even more patience and empathy. If it goes well enough, you might both realize he'd need psychotherapy for something. If it doesn't work well, it should be very frustrating and he might get stuck on nonsense justifications that could look believable enough to you, and thus be very confusing and even hurtful. It's also likely to lead to a hard, emotional discussion about what you want out of relationships, the mistakes you both make, etc. At any rate, here's some ideas about what could motivate him: fearing he might be cheated on, clinging to hegemonic masculinity, hiding gender non-conformity after bad experiences with women, simply being bored and that's the rabbit hole he fell into, feeling like he uncovers hidden truths, redirecting anger caused by something totally unrelated to dating and women.

Ok-Blacksmith-9418 · 2022-09-20T16:27:18+00:00

Maybe send him this subreddit and run

softnmushy · 2022-09-20T20:50:39+00:00

This subreddit has a lot of posts from men who lost all their friends and relationships because they got too deep into redpill ideas. Link him to this subreddit (or even to some of those posts) and tell him that you don't want to date him if he's going to keep consuming all that toxic stuff.

You shouldn't have to constantly persuade him why the redpill stuff is wrong. That's not your job. He can do his own research into why redpill is wrong.

If you don't tell him to fix it, it will just get worse and you will end up leaving him and he will be so deep in the redpill he won't even understand why you left.

BusinessCandy383 · 2022-09-21T02:01:50+00:00

I am Redpill and MGTOW. I'm actually pursuing full Monk at this point. The thing that I will tell you is that he's gone to the absolute wrong end of all of this, "Fresh N Fit" is in the pick up artist subset and that's a really, really bad scenario. That has absolutely nothing to do with you or women in general and it's more based in a desire to be viewed as powerful by other men. That can be downright dangerous depending on how he's emotionally approaching that need. If you decide to continue in this relationship I would recommend that you immediately stop debating him and start encouraging him into a more healthy path. Redpill, when done correctly, is a powerful tool to motivate you into becoming a much better version of yourself. Start throwing out concepts like developing his mind by reading classical works of philosophy and studying into STEM concepts, developing himself physically, and working towards financial success in whatever manner is most appropriate to him.

He's not debating you, he's debating a concept and using you as "The Live Model" for doing so because he's still new to all of this. You have got to stop feeding that crap by arguing. Redpill content creators are plentiful and if he's watching enough they will have afforded him an amazingly diverse arsenal of comebacks and "gotchas" to draw from. I can probably assume that you already know this so let me illuminate something for you that you may not have considered. You're not debating him, you're debating a collection of personalities from online, he's checked out mentally and falling into "autopilot" as he parrots the words of other men.

The only way that this gets any better is when he breaks through the need to "win" and to be saw as a winner in this way. When he starts to think and act in a way that is entirely unique and personal instead of "following the herd" he will be a much better man. Godspeed to you if this is a journey you wanna walk with him.

GhillieWarlord · 2022-09-21T11:27:59+00:00

Why are you using heteronormative as a perjorative term? Heterosexual relationships are neccessary for the survival of the human race, and they are in fact the norm and have been for hundreds of thousands of years.

Also, I'm interested what you mean when you say that you two argue about gender. What is the disagreement about?

Far_Broccoli6117 · 2022-09-20T16:45:03+00:00

I’m not going to tell you to leave him because it doesn’t sound like he’s that deep into it. But if it does worsen then maybe it’s something to consider. I’m not sure debating is the best way to get him to change his views, and I can’t really speak for how you both should communicate these topics, but I do think the reason why the redpill movement became so prominent, is that when it comes to the toxic aspects of dating and relationships, in the heteronormative sense, men got fed up with feeling like the blame is always on them, when women are just as complicit in these things.

“I’m not a fan of Andrew Tate but I don’t disagree with everything he says” sounds like something I would say but it depends on what is being said by him, however the good things he says has been said in better ways before.

Hang in there, see if you can adjust your communication style when it comes to these topics, and if it worsens then maybe it would be time to leave. It’s better to have a partner with compatable values then to be at war with each other.

delight-n-angers · 2022-09-20T19:46:54+00:00

I just feel like this all goes against a lot of my beliefs & values.

This is the most important part of your post for me. It's not that he's an extremist or anything, it's that your values and beliefs just aren't compatible. You're young and 18 months isn't a long time in the grand scheme of things. But those beliefs and values are going to be a BIG deal if/when you think about your future and things like marriage roles and parenting philosophies. If his aren't compatible with yours, it's going to be miserable. Throw this one back and find one compatible with your values. That's important.

Jamonde · 2022-09-20T20:26:08+00:00

I'm not sure what you want to get from the folks here, but here maybe is a useful exercise you can try.

I think it would first be good to clarify what your beliefs and values are, and then approach your boyfriend and ask about his beliefs and values. Maybe even have him clarify his beliefs to himself before you talk in a nonconfrontational way.

Then ask, How much of an intersection do the two of you actually have in your beliefs and values? What are your no-go, 'this isn't going to work' beliefs and values? And how does that relate precisely to the content you see your boyfriend consuming and hear him espousing?

You mention he seems to have a "very heternormative approach and opinion." What does that mean? Why is that a problem for your? Clearly it's not important whether or not it defies logic, because it makes you uncomfortable. And that is perfectly okay and valid - your own comfort or discomfort around your partners beliefs and assumptions are valid concerns to want to bring up and address. It's very common for these RP types to dismiss those who disagree with them as 'illogical' in some sense, as though their point of view has a monopoly on reason and truth. Don't buy into that.

I think you owe yourself, your relationship, and him some honesty. Probably starting first with yourself, and then him and your relationship. You're clearly uncomfortable with what feels like a fundamental aspect of who your boyfriend is, how he perceives the world, and how he thinks. Nothing in what you've said indicated that he is open to other points of view, and he seems to be hellbent on making excuses and dismissing concerns about RP adjacent figures by saying that they are 'taken out of context.' And he doesn't seem bothered by your concerns about these figures and their philosophies.

Only you can determine what you'll put up with and for how long. Maybe you're dependent on this relationship for other, unmentioned things, or maybe there are other aspects we should all consider that we just don't know. But you've deliberately painted a concerning picture about this person. I can tell you I probably would be wary of and concerned for this person if I knew them IRL, and I'd also be wary of and concerned for anyone who was willingly dating them for as long as you have.

incredulitor · 2022-09-20T21:10:17+00:00

Lots of replies seem to be assuming that you're asking for advice, and the advice that you're asking for is one word: leave. I'm willing to entertain that idea, but I'd rather ask the question to you directly: what kinds of help or other conversation would you ideally like for me or other people visiting the thread to offer?

xvszero · 2022-09-21T00:51:29+00:00

The answer is don't date red pill guys.

West-Crew-8523 · 2022-09-21T09:06:34+00:00

everyone telling you to leave are women and everyone else telling you to fight or be truly honest are man. I'll leave it at that.

Dickasaurus_Rex_ · 2022-09-21T09:55:33+00:00

Is he reasonable and logical in other areas? If yes then ask him to explain why he listens to these podcasts/people you disagree with or dislike. Maybe they make valid points, maybe they don’t. Regardless of how you feel about it, clearly something they’re saying is resonating with him, assuming he’s a rational person.

Once you’ve understood where he’s coming from that’s when you can start asking yourself questions. Does he have a point? Are your values incompatible? Are you wrong on some of your beliefs? Is he getting tricked by charismatic people on the Internet? On and on. All questions to consider and answer BEFORE you make any rash decisions regarding the relationship.

But you can’t accurately answer any of these questions if you aren’t willing to LISTEN. Without judgement, without argument, without preconceived ideas or bias. Just LISTEN. Digest. Understand. And then proceed.

Naus1987 · 2022-09-20T15:33:07+00:00

"I just feel like this all goes against a lot of my beliefs & values."

Maybe you gotta start sharing your ideas too. They say a good relationship is about two people fighting TOGETHER against a problem. Not fighting each other.

Figure out what your problem is, and then rally up as a team.

Sometimes you have to be complicit in something to keep the peace. The world is way too complicated to stand alone. America's government has done a lot of really, really terrible things in history, but I still have to call myself an American, and I still have to outwardly say I support my country. It doesn't mean I'm specifically complicit in the evil parts.

If some of the stuff he shares are true, you can agree with him on that. Don't make it all or nothing, black or white. Agree with the ethical parts, and disagree with the bad parts.

Say that you two are a team. Figure out what his values are. What your values are, and then work together to compromise them together as shared values. And if you can't. Then just time to leave.

Red pill claims women only date men because they're attractive or have money. If you're an exception, then you've chosen his personality. Find the good parts in that personality and nourish it to grow.

Debating can be fun, but focus more on the positives and less on the negatives. Glass half full sort of stuff.

-----------

I wouldn't tell you to run. There's a lot of compromise. The reflection is often feminism. I've dated and supported women who are feminists. I didn't agree with the man hating or mansplaining aspects of it. But I focused on the positives. The fight for equality and the unity and all that jazz.

Extremists ruin everything good. Just don't be an extremist.

Andromeda_______ · 2022-09-20T16:17:08+00:00

Never ask that question on Reddit, everyone will just tell you to dump him. Misery loves company, and Redditors are miserable people.

First, what do you mean by "heteronormative"? Because if he's a straight guy in a straight relationship, his view of the world will be heteronormative. Is he a homophobe? Does he have issues with trans people? Does he hold sexist beliefs? If no, then it doesn't sound like a problem.

When he says he "agrees with Andrew Tate about some things", so what? That guy says a lot of shit about a lot of things. What are your boyfriend's actual views?

Is your boyfriend an asshole or does he just have some views that you don't like? Why does he believe these things? Are some of those things valid even though you don't agree with them? Is he a bad person for believing these things? Do you think the views he has as a 25yo man are completely settled?

These are the questions you should ask yourself, and not Reddit.

Shot-Cellist9635 · 2022-09-21T02:44:29+00:00

you should leave him. you wont. I can tell youre not at that point yet. It took me 2 and 1/2 years. you will be going through hell, but eventually you'll leave. right now youre thinking hes the only one for you and you cant be without him. you only want him. bla bla I get it. but as it gets worse, you'll either break completely or leave. some mistakes we just have to make on our own the hard way. any real advice anyone gives you at this point will be in one ear and out the other

2020mademejoinreddit · 2022-09-21T15:02:38+00:00

Here are a few questions that went through my mind while reading all this.

-Why even bring up these topics in your relationship if you're tired of it?

-Do you two not have anything else to talk about that you have similar interest in?

-If you don't like his beliefs and know for sure he's not gonna change them, why stay and make yourself and possibly him suffer?

-Why did you start dating him in the first place?

-What did you like about him?

-Does he still have those qualities?

-Are those enough for you?

-Are you okay with him having different beliefs than you?

-Do those beliefs affect you in a negative way?

-If they do, why are you still there? If they don't, then why bother? Why not focus on the positive aspects of your relationship?

-Why post this in ex-red pill, a place where ex-red pilled people come to discuss how they recover instead of posting this in the advice sub of reddit?

Unless these questions are answered LOGICALLY, I just cannot make a statement about a guy I don't know personally, unlike some other comments who just had an emotional knee-jerk reaction it seems.

HE didn't post it here. YOU did. That itself says something to me.

gretalnothing · 2022-09-21T15:16:23+00:00

You have to take into account what you're willing to put up with or not, don't become the fixer in a relationship. If you feel that way, it may get worse and if it does, all I can say is that you have to find out what you're willing to tolerate. If you're not willing to tolerate that then you know the answer

2022YouGotThis · 2022-09-25T19:35:06+00:00

just breakup with him if u dont like it

Nightchanger · 2022-09-30T22:59:37+00:00

TRP does break internal consistency due to the amount of theories it has.

F&F I noticed take the stand of Rollo Tomassi which is a pseudo intellectual book and Muslim traditionalism.

Andrew Tate takes the stance of making money and building influence regardless of morality and adversaries.

You'll not be able to argue with him even if you had good points. As it seems you need to have man you know who can talk to him. Even your father would be great.

Title	Help
Author	maurugh
Upvotes	29
Comments	40
Date	September 20, 2022 2:49 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/xjatsi/help/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/help.1132332 https://theredarchive.com/post/1132332

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