This Post Will Probably Offend You.

goththeinspiredart · 2022-04-19T20:57:03+00:00

OP, you missed an important part in your post: most movements for men are led by women.

In 2020, black women were the ones giving speeches and were the most aggressive when it came to demanding change.

Lesbians were the ones organizing awareness groups and teaching white gay men to how to fight back during the AIDS epidemic.

Harlan County, USA is a movie about a group of coal miners fighting to build a union and guess which population were the ones consistently organizing the meetings and were the most aggressive in their desire for change: women.

We all know that women are the quiet assistants that help men achieve great things, but this even extends into political activism. Women are participating in all these movements, doing the busywork, and they get in nothing in return when it comes to their issues.

Writing this has made me realize that the problem is more than liberal feminism but the very fact that women do not have the same manpower to fight for their rights as other movements that include men. Unironically, if women treated male issues the same as they treat our issues we wouldn't have abortion on the table in America right now.

Sweetheartsorrow · 2022-04-19T18:46:39+00:00

I found a quote the other day that said “I don’t want to be equal to men. Men are not the standard of humanity. I want to live free on my own terms free from violence.” I think that says it all right there.

Biracial_tooth_fairy · 2022-04-19T17:58:41+00:00

Women are also stereotypically shamed as being overly emotional and iLloGiCaL, yet men are the ones throwing temper tantrums when women ask for mutual respect and autonomy over our own bodies.

IgetUsernameScraps · 2022-04-19T18:28:21+00:00

Fantastic post. 👏👏👏

For years I’ve been feeling like I’m taking crazy pills because all you’ve said makes sense, I see it everywhere and people (mostly men) are trying to gaslight us. All this nonsense about “what, you don’t enjoy being assaulted during sex?” or “men are better women than women” (cosplaying), or “what do you mean you want to get paid as much as a man who is half as qualified as you?” Are you kidding me!?

queeninprogress · 2022-04-19T20:32:58+00:00

I want to correct the line that feminism has done nothing for women. I disagree. For the most part feminism has been fantastic. Women were making significant progress. Making strides towards workplace equality, challenging rape culture. Sex positivity was originally supposed to be about focusing more on WOMEN'S pleasure during sex, even the much-decried on here liberal feminism I do not believe has been useless. Once upon a time (not so long ago) it was not controversial to point out that porn is misogynistic and evil. I actually think feminism was doing TOO well for a long time which is why men hated it so much, and then around 2015-16 was when I saw a really big antifeminist backlash. Since then I've seen many women take one of two routes: denounce feminism and women's rights altogether, or try to make feminism more palatable to men at the cost of making it completely useless and claim "I'm not like THOSE feminists, you don't have to hate ME". Feminism is a movement that has done incredible things for women and as a result has been bastardised to try and make men hate us less. Please nobody ever forget what it HAS accomplished. It's great that we can work, it's great that we no longer have to rely on men, it's great that we continue to fight for bodily autonomy. Feminism is also not responsible for men seeing us as sexual objects, they did that on their own: what happened is that we became too forgiving of it. Never forget to blame MEN and patriarchy and not place it all on liberal feminists.

spaghettiforhair · 2022-04-19T16:54:41+00:00

I highly recommend you to read up on radical feminism because a lot of radfems are echoing this exact sentiment. Liberal feminism was about making women equal to men without asking if that's even a good thing. Like even men don't want to be drafted to fight wars they don't believe in or to be exploited by greedy corporate interests, so why should women aspire to suffer these systematic injustices as well? Why should women fight for the right to be included in neoliberal shitfuckery that's literally killing all life on earth? Liberal feminism seeks to give women the same "opportunities" as men without fighting against the burdens faced by the female sex, which has unintended consequences such as female double-employment (think 50/50 that FDS preaches against), or pornography and sex work (i.e., the sexual exploitation of women, especially lower class women and WoC) being encouraged under the guise of "free market." Liberal feminism also has the added consequence of excluding women in the Global South in the same way that neoliberalism puts Global South countries at a systematic disadvantage. I really recommend Cynthia Enloe's book Bananas, Beaches, and Bases if this is something you or anyone else reading this comment is interested in.
Radical feminism doesn't want this surface-level "equality" (that isn't even really equal, as demonstrated by the few examples I gave and many more), radical feminism seeks to emancipate women as a class from a structure that functions on systems of hierarchy. Feminism in this sense isn't even exclusive to women, especially as the climate crisis and the pandemic continue to be mismanaged by neoliberal actors in the global political economy and in international relations in general.
Marxist feminism also provides some pretty interesting insights in this regard, although I don't consider myself any kind of Marxist (still, I think there's something to be gained in deliberately exposing yourself to ideas that you disagree with). Alexandra Konditorei wrote some very interesting articles exploring the relationship between capitalism and the oppression of women that while I disagree with for the most part (I think her analysis is useful but I disagree with her proposed solutions, such as the dissolution of the family unit and state-controlled reproduction), still spark an interesting discussion.
I'm only just starting to learn about different feminist theories so I'm definitely not an expert or anything. I think conversations about what feminism ought to strive for are really, really interesting, so I'm actually kind of hoping someone will agree/disagree with me in the replies, or recommend other authors.

GoldieOGilt · 2022-04-19T18:26:35+00:00

I hope everyone on earth could read you and understand that. Thank you.

But that kind of post would be banned in many places on internet 😒. Shhh women, let the men talk, we know better than you what a woman is and what you want and need.

AdmiralRando · 2022-04-19T17:51:24+00:00

Facts. The fact that men want women to be drafted (and inevitably get raped as prisoner of war .. I'm sure some badass women will be able to protect themselves but it's crazy to think that we are on equal playing field as war thirsty huge men) made me a lot more conservative

You might like the following podcasts:

Feminist Current

Women's Declaration International

Female Dating Strategy

Female Political strategy

I would also like to point out that women are actively claiming their equal rights but it seems like men really don't like it when women have equal Free speech LMAO because we are no longer worried about losing financial resources now that we can have our own resources and good job, apartments bank accounts etc.

Notice how much men and women on the internet screech about this subreddit, but all we are doing is simply exercising our Free speech rights! Lmfao... I have also noticed that when I speak in an assertive manner to men, they think I'm a brusque b****. Like okay, it's my right to speak freely.

Some men literally seem unable to handle the fact that we DO have equal rights- they hate when we exercise them

BlueSkiesOverLondon · 2022-04-19T17:00:56+00:00

I agree with most of this post, though I don’t think I agree that Black men naturally have different capabilities/talents than white men. (???)

And I also think that, while difference between men and women definitely exists, it is two overlapping normal distributions/a Venn diagram, not two totally separate boxes. Name any traditionally masculine talent (other than the physical capabilities of our bodies, like running fast and lifting heavy objects), and there are at least a few women who excel as much as any man. And there are men who are amazing at traditionally feminine pursuits, like cooking, raising and caring for children and animals, even makeup application.

There are still fundamental differences, but just as asking for equal treatment won’t work as long as men hate us, so too embracing difference won’t work as long as men can just shove us in a box that says “pink-brained woman things” and assert that their mindset/skills/energy/whatever is superior, and exclusive to them. A balance is needed—recognizing reality and our physical and psychological limits as women without pidgeonholing ourselves by trying to be exclusively feminine when basically all people are some mixture of feminine and masculine traits, in different percentages. (Also, “the feminine” isn’t some pure idea passed down through our mothers, but rather contains truth but has been manipulated and limited by the desires men pushed onto us throughout history.) And we need to stop asking for equality (trying to copy men) and start demanding liberation (removing the limits they place on us and our potential, even if that seems unfair to men).

Not saying you are trying to push women to be exclusively feminine, OP, but I see a LOT of focus on femininity coaching, the “divine feminine,” and “feminine energy” here on Reddit.

Jaelismyhomegirl · 2022-04-19T16:45:35+00:00

Then we have men whining about how “feminism is about equality, so feminist should fight for men’s rights too!” No it’s not. Feminism is about the advancement of women. Not equality between the sexes. Not treating women just like men. Not debating who gets to be a woman. Fuck off. If it isn’t good for biological women, we ain’t for it. Feminism lost its way when we started letting men in.

CroneRaisedMaiden · 2022-04-20T00:26:39+00:00

Men are the most dramatic leeches

Huntscunt · 2022-04-19T22:40:15+00:00

I used to be a liberal feminist but I realize the folly in that now. Radical feminism is the only way we are ever going to be free from patriarchal violence.

Kant, huge misogynist that he was, argued that marriage protected women because it forced men to be accountable financially and as protectors of any off spring produced.

The problem with the system was women were still at the mercy of individual men as they needed marriage financially and things like marital rape were legal.

While thankfully we have moved past that, we have yet to put another system in place, such as free childcare, taking domestic violence seriously, etc. What we need now is women to support women and to at the least ostracize violent men from our communities

ButterfliesHurricane · 2022-04-19T17:02:07+00:00

I read somewhere a man commenting that ‘these feminists are confused’ because they wanted equality but want to date men who earn more than them 🙄. First, fighting for women equality of rights (half of the world population!) doesn’t mean that we are part of a cult and all have the preferences, standards, dislikes, etc. I’m sure some HVW don’t mind someone who makes less than them and that’s ok. Secondly, we are so far, so so so far from closing the gender pay gap and even further away from having parity in positions of power that, really if you are not able as a man to make as much as your lady partner who has been discriminated against for millennia in terms of earning power, then excuse me for thinking you are not too clever nor ambitious or just lazy 🤷🏼‍♀️.

Regarding having a penis to become woman of the year, don’t forget that most men don’t want equality or self improvement. They want to compete, they want to win, to prove you they are better than you, even at being a woman because well iT’s EAsY!

Raise your head and ignore the ‘entitlement and other’ insults. Your granddad sounds like he was an amazing man and gave you a good example to build your own standards upon.

Equal-Ear2312 · 2022-04-20T05:51:08+00:00

I agree with equality in rights but I'm thinking equity also. My dream is not to be "treated like a man" I mean, double X is the matrix. Men are just a variation. They can die mad for all I care 😘

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