Can we talk about this

Dowsing-rods · 2021-10-11T23:45:36+00:00

Incels are any man online complaining about anything, got it.

Syndocloud · 2021-10-11T18:02:54+00:00

My point here is that again and again again misandrists attack men with toxicly masculine assaults and belittle them for having the audacity of not performing male gender roles but somehow with mental gymnastics make it woke.

To the misandrist they aren't being sexist it just so happens that men more are lazy and entitled than women and have to be told to man up and fix it themselves more often.

It's interesting that all of morality shifts when the discussion is male mental health. It's essentially" Stop having the audacity and the arrogance of thinking women will break social norm and ask you out. you (a man) aren't worth that, stop being a pussy and just go talk to girls what to you mean you have mental illness that's just an excuse and if t's not just man up and take yourself to therapy bro it's so easy.

But it's framed in as if it's a universally negative trait to be this way when said. However if you know girls bout their girls experience of this kind of thing you'll know that it's completely inexistent as a concept for women and even if it did exist women are generally assumed to be worth more or have make up anyways so it doesn't really stick

The worst part is these are young kids getting this advice and the cycle goes around again.

Udesiir · 2021-10-11T21:46:30+00:00

and it's only directed at boys. its quite discriminatory

Comfortable_Ad_9154 · 2021-10-12T01:37:30+00:00

recently their was a thread that is relevant on menslib, it was about sex doll ownership, the comments were disappointing

I'm a woman. I watched this and I got so sad because I am pretty sure very very few men are this sweet, gentle, considerate, and loving to a woman. Is this an indication that to some degree or another, men want women who are pliable, don't speak their opinion and have no autonomy of their own. I mean I feel a bit sorry for this guy, but more, I feel frustrated that this is his ideal woman. He's still holding out a bit for a real woman, but he's pretty sure it wouldn't work.
Also, is there a market for fake men for women? I really don't know and am curious if this is so.

they further went on

Look, in the end we decide what sort of life we want. Men and women. There are also women with unfortunate qualities, and they are even less likely to find a partner as men are more driven by physical attractiveness. If you want to withdraw from society and be unhappy and blame the world, that's fine, it's up to you. If you want to try and build a life full of friends and perhaps a spouse, you can do that too. It's a matter of perspective. It's not blaming at all, it 2 different ways of being. That guy doesn't HAVE to turn away from society and toward silicon. He chooses to. I'm not even really judging harshly, I'm just saying it's a choice.
That said, mental illness changes that.

this is a common mindset, that I generally find particularly grievous in progressive spaces. Im not going to get into the generalizations about men, that I guess arent against menslibs rules.

day5tar · 2021-10-11T20:58:07+00:00

If you depressed, just get over it😁

bottleblank · 2021-10-12T00:05:17+00:00

I think this is a much more messy discussion than it might appear.

On the one hand, I don't think "just go talk to a girl" is necessarily bad advice. I think the more familiar young men are with women, their humanity, their individual personalities, and the idea that they're "just people", the better. Dividing people by gender is a terrible idea which is going to lead to less familiarity and understanding, which causes a downward spiral which can cause somebody to believe themselves to be an incel. We should be trying to aim to just get men/women and boys/girls talking and being around each other and treating each other like valuable human beings in both directions, as a collective, without worrying about who has the political advantage.

Which raises the other hand, which is that it's not always possible to "just go talk to a girl", for multiple reasons - some of which are counterproductive aspects of "feminism".

To begin with you're going to have a section of young men who are depressed, or anxious, or autistic, or "weird", or "undesireable". For those young men it is difficult to "just go talk to a girl", there are social pressures which cause you to learn (sometimes quite early on and quite forcefully) that you'd be better off not talking to a girl if the result is going to be ridicule, romantic and social rejection, and bullying, for having had the audacity to try without being considered worthy. It can be damaging to have those experiences and, having been given advice like "just go talk to them" and "be yourself" (which on the face of it seem like "good" advice), trying to act on that advice has the potential to really screw you up when it all goes horribly wrong, multiple times, and you end up getting bullied just for trying to do what everybody told you was the right and normal thing to do.

That's before you get to the ideas of anti-rape classes or hammer-drilling conditions of true consent into a kid's brain, which can cause well-meaning young men to believe that any approach is unwelcome and that they would only be intruding into a woman's personal space by trying to approach them and demanding that interaction or time of the woman.

As somebody who did start exploring romantic intentions as a young teenager, I can attest to the fact that it's very difficult if you're not popular or neurotypical. I think those early interests probably had some impact on my later impressions of what relationships look like and who has the power to initiate or sanctify attempts to form them. As an adult, sure, I think 13 is probably a bit young to be thinking "welp, that's it, my romantic life is over", but you don't come to that conclusion without reason, even if it is amplified and distorted into being "the end of the world forever" by being an inexperienced and hormonal teenager.

BloomingBrains · 2021-10-12T01:28:04+00:00

I saw this the other day randomly scrolling through top reddit posts and wondered when it was going to show up here. I'm glad it did.

What's most disturbing to me is that people are saying this stuff to teenagers. Somehow I'd hoped this kind of toxic attitude would be something younger generations wouldn't exhibit but dumping on disliked men is apparently a cornerstone of the human condition across time. Of course its also just as likely that the person making this post isn't even a real teenager and they are starting the indoctrination young. It's already not palatable when they're doing this stuff to do adults but wrecking young boys' self esteem and comparing them to incels is not only inexcusable, but is ironically what probably creates them most of the time.

"Just go talk to a girl..." Yeah, the problem is, boys/men who are complaining DID that, and they got told one way or another, repeatedly, that women didn't want the interaction. And especially when you're young, it's hard to not take that personally and avoid feeling like some kind of freak or monster. Hell, I still feel that way now and I'm 26. You learn to manage it better as an adult but that feeling never really goes away until (I assume) someone accepts you romantically. It's like people just automatically assume that every guy who is single is single because they were too scared to even try to talk to girls, because implying the alternative, that not all women are pristine and perfectly empathetic angels that would never turn a good guy down, is unthinkable to them.

The other thing I find absurd about this post is that it assumes depression can only be caused by being single. It's true that that can be a common reason for depression, but its not the only one. There are also boys/men with clinical depression at a biochemical level, or other mental problems that impact their social life and deny them a chance at dating through a chain reaction of effects. People that are seen as "undateable" are also often ostracized from platonic social circles as well, they go hand in hand. No one wants to date the loner and no one wants to be friends with the guy that no girls apparently thought were good enough to date. It's mindless mob mentality.

If there is one good thing to come out of this post, its the fact that it might wake boys up to the harsh realities of our world so they can be better prepared for them in the future.

peanutbutterjams · 2021-10-12T01:45:12+00:00

Stop being a pussy; be a man.

Hey, maybe all men aren't built to be the ones to naturally initiate a relationship and women need to start taking more responsibility and agency in heterosexual relationships?

Naw. It must be the marginalized^* who are wrong.

(Say what you will about incels but it's hard to deny that they're marginalized. Wealthy, attractive and charismatic people aren't incels.)

Edit to add:

The sexual politics that produce incels favours women and so nothing will change in this regard on the part of feminists. In popular feminism, the only gender norm worth changing is one that hurts women.

Incels can hurt women and so the blame stops at the incel and not the system that produced him.

This, from a movement that will (correctly) recognize how the American system hurts black people.

When it comes to men, the blame always stops at us. For anyone else, we (correctly) look at the systemic issues ultimately responsible for the harm caused by the individual.

But incels? In the minds of feminists, incels are just what men would be like if feminism weren't around to correct our natural defects.

over348 · 2021-10-12T02:58:26+00:00

Oh no! A boy online says he would want a girlfriend, and is lonely with no friends so he must be an incellllll

My God incel is literally a buzzword for people who don't kiss up and suck up to woman nowadays and the fact that this gets upvoted to 16k is worrying. This is exactly why I stay away from that sub

Too_Old_1981 · 2021-10-11T19:08:36+00:00

As depressing as this is, I actually have hope for the future when it comes to men being open about their mental health struggles. I'm thinking of the positive response guys like Carey Price and Jonathan Drouin received when they opened up about their struggles.

I can envison a future where this girl's opinion becomes more and more unpopular.

jacksleepshere · 2021-10-12T00:59:43+00:00

Incel is used for anything. Being sad about a lack of a love life doesn’t make you an incel.

ithriveintoxicity · 2021-10-12T01:51:51+00:00

Teenagers is just a place where teen girls go to shit on people that isn’t part on their niche group and where guys find groups to play with (not gaming groups but ideologies). Just ignore them because they feed off drama and controversy. Acknowledging their existence only makes them stronger.

peanutbutterjams · 2021-10-11T19:42:42+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Play3r0ne · 2021-10-12T08:48:07+00:00

shit like this is why I don't participate in r/teenagers despite being a teen

ConclusionDistinct84 · 2021-10-12T05:04:02+00:00

I think this is why mgtow is a double edged sword. On the one hand, you need to be able to turn down bad deals if you're ever going to any good deals. On the other hand being completely freed from these societal constraints can give rise to essentially the same problems society's facing, but toward the other sex. It's troubling to say the least. I'm not really hopeful as I just see more antisocial people get in positions of power and abusing people with it. I've seen these kind of cycles in history and I feel uneasy about it all.

throwra_coolname209 · 2021-10-11T20:02:19+00:00

I guess I'll be devil's advocate simply because of the subreddit it's posted in.

If it were r/datingoverthirty I'd be a lot more upset about it, bit the weird truth of the world right now is that among zoomers there are some bizarre as shit trendy things regarding mental health.

I mean, it's not too crazy to imagine the millennial "there is no light inside" emo ska archetype morphing into a perpetual sadboi zoomer one. People will do bizarre things if they think it will net them attention.

I have a problem as well with people going out to the void of the internet for actual depressive feelings as well. Mainly because it's the internet and that WILL backfire at you at some point, but also because it's so much harder to get genuine help from total strangers. They don't know you or your situation, so while it can be a legitimate help in the short term, I feel it's a bandaid on a larger issue and eventually that effort should turn toward IRL friends. I've attempted to "help" with people's depression online and sometimes it helps some, sometimes it's ignored completely, and sometimes I get hit on and realize it's manifesting in unhealthy ways.

I think this post brings up a good discussion of male gender roles and mental health, but I think contextually this post could have some weight to it.

Grahftheseeker · 2021-10-15T09:26:02+00:00

Any men who dares question any girl boss about anything anytime any place is an incel nowadays

Title	Can we talk about this
Author	Syndocloud
Upvotes	155
Comments	57
Date	October 11, 2021 5:59 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/q61ni1/can_we_talk_about_this/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/can-we-talk-about-this.1076270 https://theredarchive.com/post/1076270

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