Complex problems deserve complex answers

TheTinMenBlog · 2022-09-27T14:44:38+00:00

Request! This post has taken me a lot longer than normal, I still haven't had the chance to properly check it (mainly for grammar / spelling) so please could you take a read and let me know if there are any mistakes!

I haven't shared this on my page yet.

~

I think I’ve seen enough definitions of ‘patriarchy’ to fill a dictionary of its own.

It’s the world’s ultimate super villain.

It’s stigmatising body hair, it’s causing men to kill themselves, it’s removing rights from fathers and taking the pockets from women’s clothing.

It’s a 20% wage cut on women’s payslip, and it’s stopping them from becoming engineers. It’s putting men in power, taking them out of it, and throwing them onto the streets.

It does everything, everywhere, and fucks everything right up for everybody.

Global warming? Patriarchy. Wealth inequality? Patriarchy. Racism? Patriarchy. Male violence? Patriarchy. Female violence? Ah shit well the patriarchy made her do it.

But words that mean so much, also mean nothing.It’s all fun and games really, buy into whatever world view you like – but the problem is ‘the patriarchy’ is being used to dissect and address incredibly complex societal problems, where it fixes nothing and only wastes time, money and resources.

It’s at the centre of our politics, it's the ink that writes intervention strategies, and the words blustered from our politicians.

Perhaps most of all its the fraudulent lens through which we view domestic violence…

So let’s have a look

~

Risk Factors

Bates and Graham-Kevin

Felson and Outlaw

Straus

Pence

Illustration by Gan Khoon Lay from the Noun Project

.Images by Gradienta and Cesar Carlevarino from Unsplash.

lightning_palm · 2022-09-27T15:24:53+00:00

I have only admiration for your posts. You're doing something right. Please keep at it.

griii2 · 2022-09-27T16:19:00+00:00

Hi u/TheTinMenBlog, while I am your big fan, I am not happy about this one.

You are saying the biggest problem with patriarchy theory is that it is "broad and clumsy", but that ignores the elephant in the room: patriarchy theory is pseudoscience motivated by sexism and hate. It does not matter how elaborate and effective it is.

To menkampf the argument: It is like saying the problem with Nazi racial theory was that it was "too broad and clumsy" for the intricate societal issues. While the problem was, of course, that it was a fucking pseudoscience based on racism and hate. Patriarchy theory is the same. Saying the problem is that it is "broad and clumsy" is whitewashing.

dr-korbo · 2022-09-27T14:46:29+00:00

What is "The Palko test"?

danielnogo · 2022-09-27T17:40:05+00:00

The patriarchy theory is so popular because it requires very little though or depth, it's presents a clear enemy in the form of men, and it's very attractive to some people who really hate authority. They think that if they had a women as a boss at that one job they hated everything would have been amazing, but the truth is that women can be just as petty and power hungry as men, power corrupts men and women equally. Most feminist could care less about the truth, they blame men for their failures in life and blaming everything on the patriarchy allows them to duck the personal responsibility of not succeeding how they thought they would. When I was younger and had a drug issue and was generally not doing great in life because of my own poor work ethic, poor choices, and lack of foresight, I often wished that I had some kind of disability, or some kind of issue that wouldn't make my life harder, but would give me a shield against criticism and personal responsibility, that's feminism, and victimhood culture in the nutshell, lots of people would much rather believe some nebulous force is actively preventing them for achieving their goals in life rather than them just being incompetent. Sad part is, they will never take a look inward and make the changes required to get where they want, so they will basically give up trying to achieve anything better than what they have because it's pointless if there is a sinister cabal of men actively preventing them from achieving anything.

hshsgdve · 2022-09-27T20:02:28+00:00

You forgot the ending:

Feminists will then complain that the watch is now even more broken, demanding we use a bigger hammer.

All this, while getting their own watch fixed by a professional watch maker.

(Yes, I distorted the analogy)

DarthEquus · 2022-09-27T17:15:36+00:00

Perhaps add a slide about the contradictory claims about how patriarchy grants men power and privilege while also being responsible for any systemic issues that plague men.

frackingfaxer · 2022-09-28T03:32:14+00:00

In trying to attribute every social ill to the patriarchy, the word patriarchy has become increasingly synonymous with all human civilization as we know it. Not that we shouldn't critique civilization and class society; we should actually do more of that in my opinion. However, saying the solution to all our problems is simply to "smash the patriarchy," that is to say, smash everything, reveals some childishly black-and-white thinking. Civilization = patriarchy, patriarchy = bad, therefore we should just burn it all to the ground?

JakeMWP · 2022-09-27T16:58:25+00:00

The body dismorphia inclusion seems like a strange one to me. Why was that included and not delved into more detail in later slides like the other complex issues?

A9SteakSauce · 2022-09-27T23:10:45+00:00

getting closer & closer to feeling confident enough to take one of these to Facebook. amazing post, keep ‘em coming.

fcsquad · 2022-09-28T20:40:30+00:00

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. —HL Mencken

Good post.

politicsthrowaway230 · 2022-09-27T17:51:21+00:00

To be honest, I'm not too worried about people talking about patriarchy. It's not a very appropriate label for Western gender dynamics in irreligious communities but I can stomach analysis that uses it provided the points are good, and they definitely can be. If you're averse to the word "patriarchy" in certain spaces, you might be sussed out as "reactionary", even when your objection is more nuanced.

The problem is that a lot of people actively avoid nuance (often exploiting ambiguity to change their points after giving them) and will readily conflate "the patriarchy" with the group of men. Despite reassurances from reasonable feminists who don't do this, people definitely do this all the time. It also strips your capacity to properly analyse social situations: poor? Well, it was men that created the economic circumstances that made you that way, why should you get sympathy when you/we're out here doing it to our/yourselves? Socially awkward wimpy dude who feels he can't say no to his partner? That makes no sense - men are conditioned and empowered to exert dominance on their partner, you must be somehow defective or a special case, just push them off lol? This is where nuanceless "analysis" leads.

Abuse is about power, but it's on a far more "micro" level and can't be boiled down to "men have power over women".

Konato-san · 2022-09-27T18:01:32+00:00

What is the Palko test? I couldn't really find any results online.

RookieRemapped · 2022-09-27T19:53:59+00:00

In slide 5 I felt a lot of things were basically the same. Like I don’t see how possessiveness is separarte from a desire for control

Also, slide 9 was strange - are you arguing feminists have never mentioned absentee fathers?

Or they don’t criticise religious zealots? When if there is anything we can say is definitely patriarchal, it’s organised religions?

Maybe it’s because I’m from the UK but I feel my experience with feminists is very different to what people in this sub seem to have had.

Man_of_culture_112 · 2022-09-28T06:05:22+00:00

I would like to make videos on yours posts, how do I reference you?

Ausiwandilaz · 2022-09-28T10:45:35+00:00

Recently read a marxist article, by Lindsey German. She states its not patriarchy bringing women down nor is it men.

However then in the end of the article she regressed to bringing up capitalism as the root of all evil. Does that solve gender dispaity? No In fact, Women have benefited alot from even a little capitalistic economy(which she points out) so then she actually being sexist, and hypocritical by using anything "Patriarchial" co with Capitalism as oppression.

The problem is with "Patriarchy" is that people will constantly throw moltovs at ashes, untill they have no liquor or gas to function. Now thats where "Patriarchy" comes in..use it....i mean come on I think "Patriarchy" is beef jerky by now.

In my lifetime I have always seen women loving malls, eating out, clothes, whatever(men do too)...but ive also have seen them protest patriarchy the next day.

As that Iranian woman i met awhile back(volunteering at my job) said, " Iranians love to go shopping in America, they smile, laugh, buy....but when they go back they burn American Flags"

So in conclusion Patriarchy is a young boy without direction, a lost son with no father, something you can use an abuse and get away with, and I am the part of the pathetic Patriarchy, because I am a man that can take it without folding.

Lionheart27778 · 2022-09-30T18:35:01+00:00

The problem with "patriarchy" imo.

Is that as this point its basically vague and meaningless.

It is essentially a pre-baked strawman to throw into discussions and arguments in order to distract from the point.

InitiatePenguin · 2022-09-27T17:30:24+00:00

This post goes from patriarchy on one slide to the Duluth model on the next implying they are equal and one in the same.

I doesn't mention the Duluth Model by name. Just "this model" while quoting Ellen pence. There's no clear antecedent to what you're referring to.

Then you say "same blunt theory" (Duluth) is being used to apply towards other issues needing to smash. - Male suicide, body dysphoria etc.

Duluth hasn't been applied to any of those. Duluth only concerned itself with domestic violence.

Matt5sean3 · 2022-09-27T20:12:55+00:00

There's plenty to quibble over here, but

domestic violence is a consequence of patriarchy

As a statement does not actually imply that patriarchy is the cause of all domestic violence. That's very logic 101 sort of stuff just as not having cake is a consequence of eating cake, but the cake going moldy in the fridge is also a cause of not having cake.

camelry42 · 2022-09-27T15:53:39+00:00

Clear, concise, articulate.

whosayesa · 2022-09-27T17:39:11+00:00

Pretty good points. Nice presentation.

Troll4everxdxd · 2022-09-27T23:47:18+00:00

Very good and insightful post!

Danypro15 · 2022-09-28T00:54:31+00:00

I love this so so much

AaronStack91 · 2022-09-30T12:42:03+00:00

Awesome work! I thought these slides were great and well thought out!

This touches on one of my biggest gripes about "Patriarchy" and other feminist theory is that they are not falsifiable and not grounded in science. It is sad that so much money and resources are poured into advocacy based on a theory with little evidence that it works. If we want to actually tackle domestic violence, suicide, discrimination, etc. we to need measure and understand the problem accurately, not what just "feels" right.

(For context, I do respect that feminist theory can generate valid hypotheses to test... but we actually have to test them before we assume they are real!)

alfredo094 · 2022-10-05T18:42:51+00:00

I agree with this, with a small asterisk. Feminist theory can give us good insights; the mistake is not using this hammer, but thinking everything is a nail. We should see feminism as one tool, not the tool.

Title	Complex problems deserve complex answers
Author	TheTinMenBlog
Upvotes	245
Comments	71
Date	September 27, 2022 2:42 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/xpinhz/complex_problems_deserve_complex_answers/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/complex-problems-deserve-complex-answers.1133706 https://theredarchive.com/post/1133706

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