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A conversation I had

dasikmunky

January 22, 2017
1049 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://imgur.com/gallery/yTLTv
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Title A conversation I had
Author

dasikmunky

Upvotes 1049
Comments 146
Date January 22, 2017 11:43 PM UTC
(9 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/5pkocm/a_conversation_i_had/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/a-conversation-i-had.933519
https://theredarchive.com/post/933519
Top posts by dasikmunky

Sign guys

3835 upvotes
January 2, 2017
/r/MensRights

Comments

[–]ArdentGamer 278 points279 points280 points 9 years ago (46 children) | Copy Link

"abortion is going to be illegal". Not only is this a false assumption but, realistically, she is freaking out at the prospect of women essentially having the same reproductive rights as men. Funny how the "well if you didn't want to have a baby, you shouldn't be having sex" argument suddenly stops being valid when it comes to the subject of abortion.

[–][deleted] 75 points76 points77 points 9 years ago (42 children) | Copy Link

It isn't even that, it isn't going to be paid for by the government. They are protesting over not getting free abortions.

[–]Macismyname 71 points72 points73 points 9 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link

Well, the argument is that planned parenthood does more than just abortions. Abortion is a very controversial topic and I wont presume to know the right answer, only my opinion.

But I think defunding a medical facility because the name reminds you of abortion is fucking stupid.

[–]DownVoteMeHarderBaby 15 points16 points17 points 9 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Personally, I think the government should be kept well out of the matter. People who run medical facilities should be allowed to decide whether they want to provide abortions, individuals should be allowed to decide whether they want to get abortions.

[–]Mylon 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Planned Parenthood needs government funding. The money spent on birth control to avoid unwanted children is money saved on law enforcement locking up future troublemakers. Conservatives can say it's immoral or expensive, but birth control does make a lot of sense from both a fiscal perspective and in maintaining order.

That said, Abortion is already de facto illegal in several states and this isn't Trump's fault.

[–]DownVoteMeHarderBaby 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Planned Parenthood needs government funding.

I don't think it does. General health clinics and hospitals don't, why is Planned Parenthood special?

What I was proposing was, if we remove the government from the situation entirely, and set up the system as I described in my last comment, PP wouldn't even need to exist. If the people in charge of medical facilities are allowed to decide whether or not to provide abortions, they can continue to get funding from wherever the currently get it- be it from private donors, charity organizations, or insurance companies. The only thing that would change is that abortion, and the other services PP provides, would become available at the local clinic and/or hospital.

There are enough people giving generously to keep hospitals open, with no need for the government to step in and throw money at them, and I imagine it would be much the same in PP's case.

[–]Mylon 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Planned parenthood is more than just abortions. It covers education and other birth control methods too. Calling to defund it is like saying we should defund schools and force parents to pay for education out of pocket. Education and outreach, especially the kind Planned Parenthood offers, is infrastructure just like schooling.

[–]DownVoteMeHarderBaby 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Planned parenthood is more than just abortions.

I know, but aren't most of their other services already also available at generic hospitals or clinics?

The services provided by PPFA affiliates vary by location, with just over half of all Planned Parenthood affiliates in the United States performing abortions.[47] Services provided by PPFA include birth control and long-acting reversible contraception;[48] emergency contraception; clinical breast examinations; cervical cancer screening; pregnancy testing and pregnancy options counseling; testing and treatment for sexually transmitted infections; sex education; vasectomies; LGBT services; and abortion.[49][50] Contrary to the assumption of some, Planned Parenthood conducts cancer screenings but does not provide mammograms.[51]

Even if they're not, there's no reason they can't be. And you still haven't explained why PP can't get funding like any other health organization: private donors, charity organizations, or insurance companies.

Calling to defund it is like saying we should defund schools and force parents to pay for education out of pocket.

No, no it's not. Education is necessary for survival in the modern world. The services PP provides are not. Especially since several, if not most, of them are (or can be) provided by other organizations that aren't funded by the federal government.

[–]_Eggs_ 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The money spent on birth control

If we get rid of planned parenthood then more money can be spent on birth control that is otherwise used for abortions.

Up to 85% of PP's funding is used for abortions (despite abortions making up only 3% of PP's total services).

[–]Bewolfs -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Women can get planned parenthood when men gets it. Otherwise it breaks human rights of equality.

[–]Mylon 10 points11 points12 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'd rather bring men up than tear women down.

[–]Bewolfs 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good point.

[–]_Eggs_ 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well sometimes it's necessary to put women on the same level as men before any progress can be made.

I mean look at the whole "draft women" issue. It instantly made getting rid of the draft seem 100x more important when women were put on the same level as men.

[–]zfighter18 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, but I'd rather the population not explode. It's a weak argument but one that I feel remains pertinent.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I hugely disagree with you here.

You have to keep in mind that Planned parenthood helps men with their family planning as well... just indirectly. It takes 2 to make a baby.

When I was younger I was Insanely glad that my girlfriend could get cheap birth-control and we could split the costs. I benefited from this service they provided her.

Sure, I'd be a lot happier if I wasn't (literally) shut out of that procedure ...because as an evil male I might coerce her into something... but it's good that they exist. Good for men, too.

[–]Bewolfs 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Womens body women responsibility.

You have to keep in mind that Planned parenthood helps men with their family planning as well... just indirectly. It takes 2 to make a baby.

Anology: If your allergic to peanuts take meds, if not on your meds your fault. You can't blame the peanut company you're the one choosing to consume it.

Today women can force men unwanted child, men can't do the same to a woman that's breaking human rights of equality. And men are literally abused by this.

Once men can have financial/juridical abortion like women have there will be equality.

You might disagree but your breaking the human rights of equality.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

yeah... none of this had anything to do with my comment.

[–]Bewolfs 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It have everything to do with your comment, since women are the one benefitting the most of planned parent hood. No judicial abortion right for men. And women should be responsible for their own body you don't have to share expenses. Women getting planned parent hood just makes it more expensive for menhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yufm_sJgIAY

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm mostly neutral towards abortion (except late term) but I don't see why they can't just have a clinic that does those things separately? Don't most doctors etc provide those services?

[–]Macismyname 28 points29 points30 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Expense. Having two facilities when you only require one is an unnecessary requirement.

In fact this is how some states managed to indirectly ban abortion in their state despite the federal ruling. They bogged down clinics with so many unnecessary and frivolous regulations that it became infeasible to have an abortion clinic in the state.

Disagreeing with a law is fine. Not being happy with the fact that abortion is legal is an understandable position. Abusing the law to shut down medical facilities that do a thing you don't like is corruption.

[–]haplogreenleaf 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

My in-laws run their own business, which is reality multiple corporations. As an example, one corporation owns the building and machinery, the other company ”rents” from it, so that if they get sued they won't lose the ability to continue to produce product.

There's not much reason why the abortion wing of planned Parenthood couldn't be its own corporation, which could be revenue neutral and allows planned Parenthood bookkeeping to show that no federal monies are going towards abortion.

[–]woolyreasoning 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's a fine position, but abortion won't go away if it's prohibited by the state it'll be performed in some back alley it will be underground and expensive and put vulnerable women in a worse position.

You can find it morally repulsive and still think I'd rather these women were safe having this procedure done by trained licenced professionals.

People need to stop forcing politicians to be ideological pure and start letting them govern for the common good

[–]Atheist101 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

IIRC in Texas they said all clinics had to have the same facilities as a full blown hospital. Obviously the clinics couldnt afford to do that so most shut down within a year or two. Thankfully the courts struck down that law but still, thats how they get away with trying to straight up ban abortion

[–]AnnakinTheMannequin 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Access to contraceptives for women is probably the single greatest thing that would prevent someone even needing an abortion. The right/ religious right don't seem dislike abortions as much as they dislike sex. They should be the ones pushing for use of birth control more than any other group. I've found often times that people who want every woman who has an egg fertilized to carry to term, also don't care much about the child once it's been born.

[–]LucifersHammerr 12 points13 points14 points 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

As strange as it sounds the right is actually more intellectually consistent on this issue than the left.

The right demands that a woman carry the baby to term and that the man support the child.

The left demands that the man support the child (with 18 years of labor), but that the woman can opt out of parenthood either through abortion or simply by dropping the kid off at a safe haven. Her body, her choice; his body, her choice.

The left also has big problems when it comes to claims of "caring about the child once it's been born." Feminist groups paint domestic violence as a uniquely male behavior when women are more likely to abuse their kids than men, and they oppose shared parenting even though every single study shows that fathers are crucial to child rearing.

I lean left but feminism is really quite authoritarian, hypocritical and anti-science/common sense on a number of issues. Feminists have a tendency to fiercely guard their brand (not all feminists are like that!) while doing absolutely nothing to correct the huge errors that have been made in their name. At bare minimum they should stop opposing Men's Rights groups and acknowledge that some of our arguments are sound.

Also, this:

The right/ religious right don't seem dislike abortions as much as they dislike sex.

The right believes that sexual liberation is dangerous to the family. The left believes that families are antiquated institutions that oppress women. In all honesty, the single mother experiment has been an unmitigated disaster -- not just for fathers but children. If feminists hadn't insisted on denying fathers parental rights then destroying the family could have conceivably worked. As it stands right now it's a complete clusterfuck. Men are basically being forced by the state to become indentured servants to support kids who they often can't even see!

Edit: Sexual liberation also has a dark side, and that's false rape accusations against men. Feminists are currently trying to rebrand practically every heterosexual encounter as rape. Hyperbole? Consider that "enthusiastic consent" requires a man to verbally ask permission for every step of a sexual encounter. Who's afraid of sex again?

[–]MeyerToTheSeventh 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[–]hstabley -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Why should I have to pay for other people's mistakes?

[–]LandMineHare 12 points13 points14 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Technically we are paying for them either way if they go to a public school.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You'd be paying more without it.

Planned Parenthood is a good idea, whether you're sympathetic to reproductive rights (I am) or strictly pragmatic.

[–]medusa378 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it has something to do with the fact that PP accounts for 80 some percent o the nations abortions and less than 5% of other services.

[–]PacoBedejo -3 points-2 points-1 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The funding is fungible. I don't want my wages, via theft, going to an organization which performs abortions. I also don't want jackboots with guns preventing abortions.

Instead, just defund them and let people who want to support them provide voluntary funding. If they're so widely supported, the money will roll in... It just shouldn't be mine.

[–]_Eggs_ -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They came out with a statistic that only 3% of their services are abortions. But another group came out with an estimation (since there are no official cost reports) that even though only 3% of their services are abortion, up to 85% of their funding is used for abortions.

This is because everything they do, no matter how small, is considered a "service".

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Where's my right to not pay for your abortion? Pretty sure that's protected under the 9th amendment along with every other damn right of an American

[–]kragshot -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No, you are not correct in that aspect.

Trump has pretty much said that he is going to default to State's Rights regarding abortion which would overturn Roe vs. Wade. There have been many Red states that are going to outlaw abortions. So, the chick was essentially correct in her comments about making abortion illegal.

But in my opinion, the whole women's abortion argument isn't our fight. We need to just concentrate on our own reproductive rights as men and not get bogged down in dealing with the women's fight.

[–]Atheist101 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I mean Planned Parenthood gives out free condoms too.....

[–]contractor808 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So does the health department.

[–]TheAlbinoRhinoWins -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The GOV pays for abortions????? I wish i knew that when me and my now ex were considering it. She eventually miscarried though, but you better believe i had the money in hand to pay for the operation because i have this thing called a JOB. Before the downvote crusade comes in on me it was an option not the only choice. I just covered all of my bases. We decided to keep it but like i said she miscarried

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

They don't pay for them for everyone.

[–]wildwildwumbo -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Medicaid only legally mandates funding for cases of rape and incest. So this idea that women get free abortions from the government is just absurd. And even if they did, wouldn't aborting a baby you don't want be cheaper than 18 years of public assistance?

[–]wildwildwumbo -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You got a source for all those free abortions?

[–]vhisic 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I dont agree with this change, but it is humerus that they are complaining about getting similar rights to men in this case.

[–]MotherFuckin-Oedipus 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Humorous*

[–]RunawayGrain 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"abortion is going to be illegal". Not only is this a false assumption ...

Yeah, the problem is that you will have the Lena Dunhams of the world claiming some kind of victory for something that isn't actually a problem. I'm envisioning all the 'We fought Trump!' rhetoric now.

[–][deleted] 109 points110 points111 points 9 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

"this is so ignorant"

Now means: "this is a different perspective than mine (that I'm Ignorant about)"

[–]2centsPsychologist 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

What is this?

[–]Satansyngel 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's funny how people who accuse other's of being ignorant always are the most ignorant.

[–]cuteman 44 points45 points46 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I noticed one of the people resorting to cursing, pejoratives, name calling, and other slurs

[–][deleted] 47 points48 points49 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

"LA La la, I'm not listening"

[–]Nergaal 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"La La Land"

[–]thehunter699 14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Her dad should have worn a condom honestly

[–]McFeely_Smackup 53 points54 points55 points 9 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

It's really funny that these women think the idea that they MIGHT lose the right to abortion means they have "less rights than men", even though it would basically bring them closer the male level of reproductive choice but in reality still having more rights.

[–]Lawnmover_Man 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I am absolutely for better laws regarding this. But I don't think males should be able to decide for the female if she has to carry out the pregnancy and give birth to a child she doesn't want.

I know of some cases where exactly that happened, and that is really cool and awesome of the female. But it shouldn't be forced by law. It really is the body of the female, after all.

(It's just like it is. Nobody chose how pregnancy works.)

[–]changomacho -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think equating having to financially support a child with having to squeeze one out of your vag and then financially support a child is probably not super accurate.

[–]Drogdovah 11 points12 points13 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. But there is literally nothing anyone can do about women popping out babies while men don't. So it's pointless to debate about how unfair it is.

[–]PopoMcdoo 14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What's the picture they are hating on?

[–]AsianThunder 44 points45 points46 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The text reads something like "When you're trying to figure out exactly what rights women don't have in America"

[–]Mrmayhemful 57 points58 points59 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

They sound young and stupid and 3rd wave feminism has beaten into their heads "my body my choice"

I wouldn't even worry about talking to them man, just block/unfriend them.

[+]Jaeryth points 9 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I've seen full-grown adults aged 40+ who are as out of touch with the current state of reality as 14 year old tumblr-feminists are.

Can't really assume they're young tbh.

[–]Mrmayhemful 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's very true. I just assumed based on their spelling and grammar that they were immature and that it reflected their age. They could very well be older too though. Either way, they're stupid.

[+][deleted] -23 points-22 points-21 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

and op comes off like a total asshole from the start

[+][deleted] -14 points-13 points-12 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I know right?

It's like, "Wow dude, you really showed her! Great job!" /s

[–]MisdemeanorOfTheMind 21 points22 points23 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Classic SADE...

[–]desearcher 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Must be short for Sadist.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I forgot that men who rape women do pay child support

My bad

Silly me

Whereas there is actually a legal precedent for women who rape men to still be paid child support.

I'm fairly sure that a man who is found guilty of rape will be on the hook for child support (presumably once they're out of prison as male perps tend to actually get jail sentences for rape), but a quick Google search proved fruitless as all the results were articles and discussions about male rape victims being forced to pay child support.

[–]Derrythe 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There was a story I had read about a guy who was raped by a, I think a teacher, who ended up initially having to pay child support to his rapist for the child once he turned 18. I had heard he was planning to fight it, not sure if he was successful.

[–]labananza 14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

OP is arguing about child support whereas the girl is arguing about abortion. I see it's very difficult for people to actually distinguish between these 2 separate issues, they are. Men SHOULD have better rights regarding child support. And women should have complete rights over their decision to abort. And if you think it's about the cost and taxpayers... Well clearly you can't put yourself in someone else's shoes and imagine the tough situations women are put in because of a mistake, maybe even not one she made herself. It's really sad.

[–]Cagg 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Although they could be treated separately they are sortve intertwined. Since men can have the right to abort an unwanted child, or keep a child she wants to abort (it is her body afterall) having a system in place like the abortion of financial obligation gives men some power in the discussion. Its at least leverage in the discussion. Obviously the man should lose all rights to the child if he does abort the financial responsibility.

However, i feel like that should potentially be something decided pre pregnancy otherwise you'd fuck over a bunch of women who are pro life.

The situation is that men will never have the rights to control reproduction. We barely have the option to control it. Condoms suck and fail. Abstinence is bullshit. It leaves a lot of power and responsibility in the hands of the women. Ideally we should work toward developing male birth control like vasagel so the problem of an unwanted pregnancy doesn't happen nearly as often in the first place. And a checks and balances system for if it does.

Case in point. Im with a girl now who says she never wants kids. Would abort if it happened. I feel the same way. However, if it happens. I have no say in the discussion and no leverage to do anything. If we pre signed some documentation or something now, i could feel confident that if she got pregnant at the end of the day it wouldnt fuck me over.

[–]nocivo -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

To make this fair give the man to do "abortion" making him have no rights or duties to the child. The woman will then choose if she still want to keep it or do the real abortion. Gives the same time woman have to the man to decide if he want to do the legal "abortion".

What I mean with this is that man should have some time after woman legal tell them that they are the father or he got the lab results so he can decide what to do with the child.

Of course has to be exceptions and one is if the woman or man was raped. For example If a man force a woman to have sex while she clearly say to him she doesn't or is sleeping/incapacitated and if the man is the same conditions. We can't also forget that if you also prove as a man that the woman got pregnated on propose the man should choose if he wants to "abort" the kid.

Man should also have the right to keep the kids after they left the milk mother if tribunal thinks he can give a better home and education. Have the right to keep the kids just because you're a woman is the right thing to do.

A vagina doesn't give anyone better capacities to raise a child better than dicks.

[–]TejrnarG 14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They only ever bring up biology when they think they can use it for their own cause. But in this case they are just wrong in any case, no matter if their body or not.

[–]HotDealsInTexas 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Jesus... I'd have stopped talking to her after the gigantic strawman at the start of the second image.

[–]turn20left 17 points18 points19 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women have the right to not have their genitals mutilated at birth.

Women have the right to not be forced to fight and die in war.

I could go on...

[–]ThePedanticCynic 29 points30 points31 points 9 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Basically every conversation i have with anyone on reddit outside a very select group of subs. It's difficult for me to understand how so many people can be emotion-driven idiots that it's become acceptable to be ignorant. Leftists are spreading the notion that it's virtuous to make decisions with emotions and tears, which is easy because it requires no thought at all.

Generation snowflake is more like generation moron.

[–]BeefsteakTomato 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Who do you think raised these "snowflakes"?

[–]ThePedanticCynic 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

TV and leftist academia.

[–]BeefsteakTomato 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Wrong, the "Me" Generation raised them.

[–]ThePedanticCynic -3 points-2 points-1 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Are those mutually exclusive? Seems like they fit together quite well, so your response is a miserable attempt at you trying to focus the attention yourself... kind of like... the "Me" generation! Wow. Tell your kids to stop being little shits and be a better parent.

Also, i've never heard that term, but you fit it. Sounds like you made it up.

[–]BeefsteakTomato 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

How many people under the age of 50 watches TV?!

[–]ThePedanticCynic -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

How many people under the age of 50 watches TV?!

Lol, ignoring the grammar: everyone in college now was raised on TV. The internet is a relatively new invention, and streaming wasn't popular prior to the last few years or so.

You're clearly an idiot, so we're done now.

[–]Dissentient 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

everyone in college now was raised on TV

I just recently finished college and I was raised mostly on the internet. I've had it since I was 12, and I don't think I've watched TV voluntarily in at least 10 years.

[–]ThePedanticCynic -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I've had it since I was 12

So have i, and if you've had it that long and are only recently graduating college then you're not the target group of my statement.

I also said relatively recent.

Did you attend Phoenix Online, or...?

[–]BeefsteakTomato 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You are right, we're done now. I will not bother having such a discussion with someone who is convinced the internet is a new invention.

[–]Atheist101 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You have parents before you can watch TV and go to school though.....

[–]MrHallmark 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Bet she voted hillary.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

People disagree with my views = ignorant. Therefore shall I ignore them.

[–]rogue780 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

You didn't block her name out on the last one.

[–]Commie-Bastard 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Sade took a screenshot of chat!"

[–]Objectively_Stated 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I wonder where she's posting her screenshots right now...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

She's probably sharing the conversation with her friends. A few might make it onto twitter or facebook.

[–]thehunter699 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And hopefully more then a few call her out on her idiocy.

[–]Mozgus 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This shits so common I'm starting to think its an intentional form of population control, which is to say brainwashing so many women into claiming victimhood status and hating men, so that far fewer of us ever find partners and reproduce. God damn. I was much more in favor of putting sterilization agents in the mountain dew, but hell...

[–]Mr_Canard 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not because they "hate" men that they won't have children.

[–]dudeiskate 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Damn, she couldn't handle those facts

[–]yurpledink1 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good job censoring until that last "Sade"

[–]Lupinfujiko 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's like every single one of my conversations these days.

[–]101001010101 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Interesting argument, men should have more say in abortion/adoption of the kid if they are forced to pay child support.

[–]my_trisomy 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

While it's bad enough that a woman could decide to keep a baby and the man be forced to pay child support, I think it's much sadder that a woman can decide to abort a baby that the man wants to keep.

[–]Bewolfs 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women shouldn't get planned parenthood help. Because men don't get it either.

It breaks human rights of equality.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How the fuck do women NOT have reproductive rights?

I mean.. I realize that some red states go out of their way to make getting an abortion a pain in the ass, but even in the most conservative states do women have plenty of reproductive choices, even abortion available to them.

[–]ham_456 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

this is why the left is a laughing stock.

[–]Bewolfs 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There can be bad people at both sides.

[–]JackBond1234 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So the only right she can think of that men have that women don't have is the right to kill their baby?

...which men don't even have?

[–]BeefsteakTomato 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"kys" Statistics show he is more likely than her to take it literally.

[–]Swordeater 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What's the source of this image? I want to put this on my snapchat and see the response

[–]Rumpadunk 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

70% chance of losing a rape case? That doesnt sound right unless if talking about college kangaroo courts

[+]StrixTechnica points 9 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

As of 2010, conviction rate for rape and related crimes was about 60% (of those cases that actually made it to court). (Source: Sterne Report, Baroness Sterne, 2010)

[–]Rumpadunk 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Which is a lot different than someone just claiming rape.

[–]best4bond -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What was the idea of harassing her in the first place?

[–]TheOcularScholar 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I understand the frustration but this exchange was immature.

[–]Satansyngel 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yea feminists are immature.

[–]MyOtherTagsGood 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Try to have a reasonable conversation where you challenge another person's views by pointing out obvious contradictions in their logic, and they tell you to kill yourself. Well OP I guess you should use that male privilege of yours and contribute to another statistic.

[–]Nikolausgillies 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Having a child is one of the potential repercussions to having sex. It sounds shitty but if you really really don't want children take the necessary precautions.

[–]Merty56 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Uhh you forgot to censor Sade's name at the very bottom....

[–]kragshot 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Shit...she should have gotten a "Bye Felicia," right after the first page.

[–]sermon 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I just love how stupid people sound when they call other people "ignorant" without proper context. Like using "literally" on symbolic situations.

[–]Fl333r 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Man, you really tried to present your arguments. Some people just don't want to listen.

I don't understand people who realize they MIGHT be wrong and just pretend to ignore it. They must have seriously low self esteem. People like that tend to lash out easily.

[–]Spoopsnloops 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Your first mistake was taking part in that conversation to begin with.

[–]Durtyjoey 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

OP was trying to get everyone on her side by posting this and than we realized they're both like 12

[–]Classicpass 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And millions of these tarts were marching for it. They also have the right to vote. How frightening is it?

[+][deleted] -18 points-17 points-16 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You're a tool, OP.

You'll be in your mom's basement your whole life

[+][deleted] -14 points-13 points-12 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

My thoughts exactly.

I bet girls just line right up to talk to OP at parties lol

(Assuming OP leaves Moms basement)

[–]l3linkTree_Horep 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My thoughts exactly.

I bet girls just line right up to talk to OP at parties lol

(Assuming OP leaves Moms basement)

sick burn bro

[–]monark789 -4 points-3 points-2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Men do have a choice,I have a choice which i have exercised twice. if I don't want to have baby, I do not fuck her or I use condem. And I get her opinions on baby at the start of the relationship before anything happens and also clear my stand about kids.

[–]morerokk 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Your argument is literally the prime pro-life argument.

[–]Bewolfs 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How about girls take responsibility for their body? If girls want option discard the kid the man should have the option to,(atleast financial/judicial abortion, women have it. men should to) human rights of equality on my side.

[+]pl0x_to_0wn points 9 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

i agree that its not fair but would you rather force the woman to get the abortion, or if you want the baby force her to have it?

[–]Meyright 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why do people think he is arguing for forced abortion? No sane person would do that and I have never herd an mra argue that way. He's just pointing at reality and saying thats the way it is, not how it should be.

[–]Ricwulf 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Like Meyright said, nobody is advocating that women be forced to have abortions, at least not in the MRM.

However, a popular solution is for men to have the option of a financial abortion. This means that all financial obligations that might arise from having a child (child support for example) are null and void. In connection with this, the father loses any and all rights towards the child.

It's not about reducing rights, it's about expanding them.

[+]atred -17 points-16 points-15 points 9 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

Of course you don't get to choose, the baby is not growing inside your body. Leaving aside that we talk here about a baby it's like saying "you have the right to cut your hair, why don't I have the right to decide how short is your hair?"

Now you are going to ask, but why pay for the child if I didn't want it? That's a good question, but I guess there were two people that conceived the child if you didn't want the child you should have used a condom, I think the idea is that the child is not responsible for himself/herself nor are the taxpayers, so his/her parents need to be, frankly it would be ridiculous to keep only the mother on the hook just because the father declares "I changed my mind, I don't want him/her anymore".

[–]Meyright 10 points11 points12 points 9 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

Of course you don't get to choose, the baby is not growing inside your body.

Yes, of course, so why do you think he's arguing for that?

That's a good question, but I guess there were two people that conceived the child if you didn't want the child you should have used a condom

For probably being pro-choice you're not shy using pro-life arguments.

I think the idea is that the child is not responsible for himself/herself nor are the taxpayers, so his/her parents need to be

So if a woman gives her child up for adopion, should she still be financial responsible for the child? The moment she puts her child up for adoption or leaves it at a hospital, she leaves her financial responsibilities at the door!

frankly it would be ridiculous to keep only the mother on the hook just because the father declares "I changed my mind, I don't want him/her anymore".

She can still abort the child.

If the idea of financial abortion would become a reality, you would see a strong decline of unwanted pregnencies overall. Because women will know that there are responsibilities for having rights and they will be held accountable. Like men have since beginning of time.

[–]atred 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

So if a woman gives her child up for adopion, should she still be financial responsible for the child? The moment she puts her child up for adoption or leaves it at a hospital, she leaves her financial responsibilities at the door!

That works well for my argument, if the natural parents give the child of adoption they should not be responsible for the child support, we all agree on that. I don't think that decision should and could (as far as I know) made unilaterally by a parent (at least that's the case for married parents). If the woman is not married than all the bets are off, the father might not even know he's a father. To me if the child is listed as having a father then both parents need to agree to put the child for adoption, if the father is not listed then the mother can make that decision, and if the mother abandoned her child then the father can make the decision to put the child for adoption. At least that makes sense to me, not sure what's the law.

She can still abort the child.

So? Why would that empower the man to deny financial support for his child? I don't see the connection.

[–]Meyright 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

So? Why would that empower the man to deny financial support for his child? I don't see the connection.

The women can say, like you said, "I changed my mind, I don't want him/her anymore". The man can not say that. The argumentation became circular now.

My opinion:

In a situation where abortion is legal, under the assumption of equality between men and women, a men should be able to sign away all his parental rights and responsibilities up until to the point in time where abortion is not legal anymore.

Women have all rights when it comes to reproduction. Rights come with responsibilities. If only she has to decide wether or not a child is conceived, then only she should face all responsibilities. That means paying for the child. And don't come me with the argument, we only do whats in the best interest for the child. This argument is evidently gone because abortions are legal, basicly killing the child.

The only other coherent argument you could form is the pro-life argument. That means, neither the man nor the woman can abort the child in any form, and both are responsible for it. You made the argument for that yourself:

I guess there were two people that conceived the child if you didn't want the child you should have used a condom

I don't like the pro-life approach. I support abortions for both genders. Because they are practically the best for everyone in that situation.

As long as abortion is a legal reality, equality means the possibility for men to sign away his father "rights" and responsibilities.

If we would give men these rights, you would see a drastic decline in single motherhood and on top of that more proud dads and happier families.

[–]atred 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

As long as abortion is a legal reality, equality means the possibility for men to sign away his father "rights" and responsibilities.

There's no such thing as equality when it comes to birth, there's only one person who is carrying the baby for 9 months and only one person who is risking her life during birth and pregnancy. Also like I said many decisions are very hard to take and are made for life threatening conditions or lack of viability of the baby, so it's not like "she changed her mind" all the times.

Just because a woman has an extra option it doesn't mean that the man has to have that option too. Signing away your rights and responsibilities to the baby during the time the abortion is still legal would encourage more abortions for financial reasons. No matter of you are pro-life or pro-choice you have to realize that encouraging abortions for financial reasons is not a good policy.

As long as abortion is a legal reality, equality means the possibility for men to sign away his father "rights" and responsibilities.

It doesn't follow.

If we would give men these rights, you would see a drastic decline in single motherhood and on top of that more proud dads and happier families.

People will still fuck, they will still have babies, men will be even less interested to use condoms, there will be a lot of single mothers that will eventually be supported by the society (everybody) through taxes. Dads will not be forced to pay, but everybody will end up paying for unwanted kids. You'll also see an increase in abortions and like I said, no matter if you are pro-life or pro-choice, that's not a desired outcome.

[–]Meyright 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

here's no such thing as equality when it comes to birth, there's only one person who is carrying the baby for 9 months and only one person who is risking her life during birth and pregnancy.

Thats why the father should have no say regarding the pregnancy!

Just because a woman has an extra option it doesn't mean that the man has to have that option too.

If you're not for equality then your argument makes sense.

Signing away your rights and responsibilities to the baby during the time the abortion is still legal would encourage more abortions for financial reasons.

Good. Mothers who can't support their children shouldn't rely on others to do so!

No matter of you are pro-life or pro-choice you have to realize that encouraging abortions for financial reasons is not a good policy.

First, by letting men chose not to father a child you only encourage women to use protection properly. Second, the morality of why someone wants to abort should have no place in that decision. Third, the reason to not have a child because you can't financially support it, is a moraly better reason then "My body, my choice" and "I just don't want kids" if it does even matter at all. There is nothing wrong with that.

there will be a lot of single mothers that will eventually be supported by the society (everybody) through taxes.

Off-topic. Did you know, that overall, only men pay taxes (as a gender). Yes you read that correct, overall men are paying for women already. https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/4xwurb/research_finds_that_as_a_group_only_men_pay_tax/

You'll also see an increase in abortions and like I said, no matter if you are pro-life or pro-choice, that's not a desired outcome.

I would definatly paint a different future. There would be less abortions, because women would protect their reproduction better and no more ankor-babies.

[–]atred 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

If you're not for equality then your argument makes sense.

I'm not for equality when it comes to carrying babies to term, when the men carry it half of time and put their life to risk I will be for equality.

Off-topic. Did you know, that overall, only men pay taxes (as a gender). Yes you read that correct, overall men are paying for women already.

I am a man, but I don't want to pay taxes for other men's children. It's your prerogative if you want to be a tax-cuck.

Did you know, that overall, only men pay taxes

What does that even mean, my sister pays taxes, my wife pay taxes, my mother pays taxes.

[–]Meyright 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

when the men carry it half of time and put their life to risk I will be for equality.

A women doesn't have to put her life to risk. She can chose to opt out with abortion. A man can not. Its as easy as its unequal. Who gives birth to the child doesn't really matter for who should be able to opt out.

I am man but I don't want to pay taxes for other men's children.

This is not an argument for why it should be legal for men to opt out. Women can already go to the next sperm bank, get a child and on welfare. Nobody is stopping them. And like I said, I garantee there will be less unwanted pregnencies. If a women knows there will be no men supporting her, she will be thinking twice about bringing that child to term.

But maybe someday you'll have to pay for other men's children regardless. But not through taxes.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3714674/Colorado-man-forced-pay-730-month-child-support-ex-wife-despite-DNA-test-proving-NOT-father-child.html

http://wreg.com/2017/01/14/kid-not-his-son-but-man-ordered-to-pay-child-support/

http://www.wxyz.com/news/judge-says-man-must-pay-30k-in-child-support-for-kid-who-is-not-his

What does that even mean, my sister pays taxes, my wife pay taxes, my mother pays taxes.

I gave you a link, read it if you want to know more.

[–]atred 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

A women doesn't have to put her life to risk.

So if she does it's all on her...

Who gives birth to the child doesn't really matter for who should be able to opt out.

Abortion is not "opting out". It's not as simple as: she has the option to opt out so should I. But, yes, if it's in your body you do have the "option" to opt out in any case more than somebody who just contributed to put it there.

I garantee there will be less unwanted pregnencies.

Thank you kind person on the Internet for giving me guarantees.

If a women knows there will be no men supporting her, she will be thinking twice about bringing that child to term.

Like I said, it's not such a great thing to encourage abortions.

[–]Meyright 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I did my best, brought up all I have and still couldn't convince you with my logic. I guess we have to agree to disagree. At the end of the day it doesn't even matter whats morally or logical right, some asshat with a lot of money will change the law their way regardless of what we think.

Have a nice day kind person on the Internet :)

[–]Th3Pl0t_InYou 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Of course you don't get to choose, the baby is not growing inside your body.

I never agreed with/understood this argument. Why is it that so many people think that since the baby is growing inside a woman, the woman therefore has the right to choose whether that baby lives or dies, as if it's the woman's body soley because it's growing inside her. Lacks a lot of thought. You wouldn't say a baby 6 months in the womb is a part of the mother's body, and she has the right to take it's life. Seems dark.

These women at these protests don't know what they're protesting.

[–]atred 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I think this is slightly a different issue and a longer discussion, I was merely making the point that it's not the man's body, which would make him even less entitled to make a decision regarding abortion. Basically, if (if... I'm not adjudicated here if abortions are OK, although I'm fully pro-choice) anybody is entitled to make a decision is the person who is carrying the baby to term. Many such choices are very hard and are made for medical reason, either because of the risk for the mother-to-be or because the fetus is not viable. I don't see how is relevant to the father's right to refuse financial help for the kid because he changed his mind.

[–]morerokk 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

That's a good question, but I guess there were two people that conceived the child if you didn't want the child you should have used a condom

Great idea, let's ban abortion altogether! After all, if she didn't want the child, she should have used a condom or some other birth control.

[–]atred -3 points-2 points-1 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

That's a stupid idea for many reasons. If nothing else I don't want to support unwanted kids through my taxes: support them through public schools, medical insurance, and eventually prisons.

she should have used a condom or some other birth control.

I fully agree, but you can't turn back time, she could get an abortion though, while a man cannot get an abortion. Simple fact. Not to mention that abortions are also for medical reasons not only because "oops, I forgot the pill".

[–]morerokk 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I fully agree, but you can't turn back time, she could get an abortion though, while a man cannot get an abortion.

That's exactly the point. If a woman ever gets pregnant, there is literally nothing the man can say or do. He either has to stay with her (if she will let him), or he has to pay child support for the next 18 years. If divorce is involved, you can count alimony on top of that.

[–]atred 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes, that's how it is. Alimony is idiotic, but the rest, while inconvenient, makes sense. What would you want the man to do:

  1. force woman to have abortion? That's obviously not a good choice.
  2. wash his hands and say "not my problem"?

What do you propose?

[–]zfighter18 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

2 seems like the better choice honestly. If he doesn't want the child and she does, why should he be forced to pay for the child's care?

Apart from the fact that it is his, it is not just that his wages be drained to take care of a child that he never wanted simply because the mother wanted it. Unless both are in agreement to have the child, then child support shouldn't be placed on the fathers shoulders.

[–]atred 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It's not a good choice for a number of reasons:

  • it would shift the burden from the father (who did have unprotected sex with the mother which means that he agreed to the possibility of having a child) to the taxpayers (who didn't fuck anybody).

  • it would encourage more baby killings for financial reasons.

  • just because the woman has an additional option to get rid of the baby, it doesn't absolve the father of his responsibilities if the child gets born.

[–]zfighter18 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

At this point, it's entirely up to the mother to make the choice to abort. The father is dragged along regardless.

Forced abortions are ridiculous and inhumane.

Financial abortion is the only reasonable option.

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