feminist programmer calls for gender separation in the classroom because a male asked difficult questions

MaunaLoona · 2012-06-10T21:09:59+00:00

I don't think this is a gender issue. We'd see the same effect in a mixed class. When a know-it-all like that is present, nobody else feels comfortable asking questions. Perhaps the knee-jerk reaction of segregating classrooms should be put on hold, and a solution devised that works for both genders: Either to remove or discourage the jerk from continuing his actions. I believe it's important for the teacher at the first sign of such behavior to let the jerk know that his questions are too advanced and out of scope, and that he wants the whole class to participate, not just one person.

Phuzzums · 2012-06-10T22:18:53+00:00

From the sounds of the article, it was an advanced programmer that came into a beginner or intermediate workshop and was disturbing the class by bringing up questions that had no relevance to the material being covered. It wouldn't have mattered if it was a man or woman doing it, the person regardless of gender was being disruptive and rude to the other students.

The other side of the article was explaining that maybe women learn differently than men when it comes to programming, which is exactly what we say about boys being left behind in public schools because they are being forced to learn like girls. Is it so wrong to suggest that maybe gender specific learning might be a good thing?

TidalPotential · 2012-06-11T02:11:20+00:00

I think the problem is that Dave was a jerk, not that Dave was a man.

Patrick5555 · 2012-06-10T20:32:29+00:00

Anecdotal evidence?

Break out the law books and a pen, lets make more rules.

a_bearded_man · 2012-06-11T08:01:22+00:00

Wait ... what?

Look, there are extreme assholes that are computer scientists. I know, I've had them in every single class that I had while getting my degree. "Daves" where present everywhere. While I think that women have to eventually deal with it, the suggestion that entry level courses be more gender separated in order to encourage women to pursue the study (because of fucking gender differences which illustrate different learning styles and strengths) is not an offensive one. Not a Men's Rights issue.

rhinestones · 2012-06-11T01:05:52+00:00

[permanently deleted]

rbcrusaders · 2012-06-10T19:36:49+00:00

Thats a pillar of feminism-if a women has trouble with something, it's a mans fault.

trombodachi · 2012-06-10T18:03:15+00:00

They had a big discussion about this in r/programming,

it's frustrating to read them arguing about it because the story given in the blog post is just that: One persons recollection of what happened. You can justify anything by pointing out how neatly is solves the problem of this troublesome person you just made up. We have no way to verify what actually happened but he repeatedly calls this person a jerk.

Despite the fact that there are real social factors (e.g. 1 2) that push women away from programming nobody seems to be willing to even accept the possibility that the main cause is innate gender differences in behaviour: how many women choose to program as a hobby.

Oriumpor · 2012-06-10T23:54:29+00:00

Women in class together learning well + Man in class who knows material asking jerky questions = Women should learn together without men.

Subtracting Gender from both sides.

People in class together learning well + person in class who knows material asking jerky questions = people should learn together without people.

It doesn't pass the acid test.

The answer is up before the conclusion, don't be a jerk when you're at a conference.

2012-06-11T02:28:12+00:00

I know y'all are going to hate me for this, but ai don't see too much wrong with gender seperated classes if they're private. I know a lot of females that feel scared and intimidated by guys because of how good at STEM the guys usually are. I've also seen guys get uncomfortable around girls, and shy away from STEM classes because they don't want to interact with females.

Generally, I am against gender seperation. But perhaps when it comes to programming, there's an exception.

emacsen · 2012-06-10T21:16:14+00:00

As the author of the blog post, I'm sad at the reactions I'm seeing in this reddit post about it.

I was a subscriber to r/mensrights for quite a while myself. I agree with the principles that men's issues are largely ignored, especially in the areas of education, sexual abuse and parental rights.

But sadly, while I see many men who agree with me, I see many in this subreddit who stoop to name calling, bashing anyone who they don't agree with, and just a general undercurrent of viciousness.

Nowhere in my blog post did I call for gender separation in the classroom. I did, and do, believe that organizations which support women have a place in the Free Software world, and that the role of these organizations should be to encourage women to join the general community.

In my argument for that, I cited studies which show that women who are in a single sex classroom do better academically, and I also cited studies which show the opposite.

I'm genuinely sad and frustrated that some men don't understand what I'm advocating for- which is strength in diversity. If not for equal opportunities, then neither feminism nor men's rights group have any moral standing. I believe, and I have always believed, that the right answer is to provide everyone, no matter gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, or social background, the best opportunity to better themselves.

TerriChris · 2012-06-10T22:32:43+00:00

Why do women need to be incouraged to work in a high paying industry like technology when they do not need to be encouraged to work in government academic or legal industries.

NativeKing · 2012-06-11T08:00:29+00:00

The only part I hated was this,

"Just as I’ve never heard an outcry about how few male teachers exist, I never understood the outcry about the lack of women programmers or sys-admins."

Other than that, it's no problem that a jerk was in the classroom that happened to be a man. Well how she kept referring to same sex classrooms was annoying because it isn't just men who do this...

Misandry at its finest right there.

barf_bagz · 2012-06-11T14:11:42+00:00

My problems with this:

One, a rather broad statement is made here on the basis of a single person. I wonder how a diverse class of male students would have responded to an aggressive personality.

Two, the approach that the author uses to back up his opinion terrifies me. It reminds me of being in grade school - the notion that a precocious student is damaging and must be removed, and especially that the precociousness that is damaging is particularly male. Its a fear I carry with me everywhere - act too "male" and be branded a disruption, an unwelcome influence. Take up too much space ( sorry, just not a small person ), ask the wrong sorts of questions, disrupt harmony, branded as a negative influence.

Finally, I think the problem probably is that you just aren't that good a teacher, when it comes to dealing with classroom disruptions. I would suggest you take your anecdote and learn from it. Find some way other than just avoiding the fucking problem by keeping people like that out of your classroom - be a fucking educator and learn how to deal with them in the moment. Don't blame this student for your avoidant behavior.

2012-06-11T01:08:06+00:00

"not letting the idea of “free speech” get in the way of maintaining a safe place for discussion"

people never get tired of hating on free speech.

I_divided_by_0- · 2012-06-10T23:58:07+00:00

Downvoted. This has nothing to do with mens rights.

feminist programmer calls for gender separation in the classroom because a male asked difficult questions

Comments

2 is the the operative part, get it?

Title	feminist programmer calls for gender separation in the classroom because a male asked difficult questions
Author	trombodachi
Upvotes	55
Comments	140
Date	June 10, 2012 5:59 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/uuttz/feminist_programmer_calls_for_gender_separation/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/feminist-programmer-calls-for-gender-separation-in.1020061 https://theredarchive.com/post/1020061