Gay MRAs?

SporkTornado · 2014-04-11T13:59:44+00:00

I'm a gay MRA. To me the MRA was never about sexuality. Its more about understanding that men are not an all powerful oppressor class like the radfems will try to make you believe. I see a society that will always put the needs and wants of women first. Even though 2/3 of the victims of violent crime are men. We only ever hear about women who are victims of violent crime. There are sweeping bills put forward to reduce the number of women who are victims of violent crime. But no one will ever talk about men who are victims of violent crime. In the law of most countries today it is impossible for a woman to rape a man. The most she can do is sexually assault him. We talk about the wage gap nonstop. But no one gives a damn that men represt.93% of workplace deaths. Or that 80% of suicides are men or that the majority of homeless people are men. And to top it all off radfems will shout at you about how we live in a patriarchy society that privileges men. What a load of garbage. I am MRA because I believe men are not the oppressor class. We live in a society where men and women both have different but equal sets of advantages and disadvantages. But feminists exagerate any advantages men have and refuse to acknowledge any disadvantages men have.

Funcuz · 2014-04-11T13:12:09+00:00

There are plenty of gay MRAs and they're welcome here of course. In fact, all are welcome but because we don't focus on your background it's not really a topic that comes up very often.

The general feel of this place is that we're concerned with men's rights. We're concerned about how males are discriminated against and how it affects the people around them.

Adding your voice and perspective as a gay male is certainly welcome and you're invited to start threads with precisely that focus in mind.

EDIT : Why would I get voted down for saying the above ? I hate trolls.

FlamingFreedom · 2014-04-11T17:06:35+00:00

I'm fairly outspoken on both LGBT issues and MRA issues and I'm 100% gay. I feel like it potentially allows me to be a bit more objective about it. I can watch heterosexual interaction without as much bias. For instance, I've watched my str8 friends whom I knew well transform dramatically in the presence of certain (most) women and I think that was one of the things that made me question the idea of women being essentially powerless in Western societies.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2014-04-11T11:10:58+00:00

Ginkgo at GendErratic is a gay MRA.

I think there are several articles on AVFM about/from gay MRAs (there are also some from trans MRAs too).

GirlWritesWhat is bisexual and genderqueer.

Plenty of the users here are gay or bi or otherwise non-straight. If it helps, I'm neither straight nor gay, /u/AndyAndrophile is gay, and there are several others.

Obviously many MHRM issues involve relations with the other sex. That said, this doesn't exclude many queer men's issues... for example, spousal abuse happens in m/m couples and f/f couples as well as m/f couples... how exactly would the Duluth Model (the radical feminist model of domestic violence) deal with abuse in an m/m relationship?

Women going into queer male spaces (like straight girls going to gay bars) can be seen as another instance of the general MHRM point about male spaces/hobbies/etc. being colonized by women.

You could even argue that the 'fag hag' thing is somewhat problematic and reflective of gender roles. Many gay men have argued that women treat them as accessories to be paraded around and that kind of thing.

And the gay male scene has its own problems with machoness stereotypes and the whole alpha-male-who-tops-dominance-hierarchy, which clearly can be addressed as part of the MHRM's focus on dismantling stereotypes of/about men.

Homophobia disproportionately targets non-straight males. Bisexual erasure is far more frequently used against men than women.

I absolutely agree some sort of space to discuss queer men's issues (for all non-hetero males), i.e. issues arising both from being queer and being male, from a perspective other than officially-sanctioned feminism, is a very good idea. Its an area that needs to be addressed by the MHRM and could greatly assist in destroying the stereotype that the MHRM is anti-gay.

CMOS222 · 2014-04-11T16:18:49+00:00

However, being homosexual myself, I'm disappointed of what I perceive to be a lack of non-heterosexual MRAs.

I've been a regular visitor to the MRA forum for about 2-3 years, and over that time, about once every two weeks, we get questions along the lines of a) are gays welcome in the MRM, or b) is there such a thing as a gay MRA. The answer to both is 'yes'.

The question is old hat, really. If you perceive a lack of homosexual MRAs here, it's because - as you yourself said - you're new to reddit. Do a search on this forum and see how often the question of gay MRAs comes up:

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/search?q=gay&restrict_sr=on

box2check · 2014-04-11T14:32:40+00:00

we don't identify with the divorce, child custody, alimony, biased courts, and abusive relationships with women issues

I don't agree with that at all. Straight men are our brothers, fathers, uncles, sons, cousins, nephews and friends. Just because I am not personally going to have a child custody battle with an ex-wife doesn't mean that I'm not interested in men being treated equally by the law in those areas. In fact I care a lot about what happens to my friends and family, and I bet you do too.

It's my opinion that it'd be great if some day there could be a gay MRAs one.

I hope that happens in the context of the MRA becoming so large, popular and organized that one site just isn't enough... not fractionalizing into ever-smaller sub-splinters, each with basically no activity.

Electroverted · 2014-04-11T17:14:24+00:00

From what I've read, gay MRAs are like kryptonite to our opponents, and we could use more of you because you really touch on how biased the laws against us are. Welcome aboard!

scythe2011 · 2014-04-11T11:20:14+00:00

Care to comment on issues that are important to you as a gay MRA? Also what issues do you consider universal - as in your sexuality is not a consideration with respect to this issue that is important to you?

iethatis · 2014-04-11T12:19:53+00:00

To add to my other post, these issues do affect you:

divorce

With more gay marriages occurring, it's only a matter of time until misandric policies start saddling ex-spouses with unfair (e.g. unnecessarily punitive) settlements

child custody

Compare the number of gay couples who want children and can't get them with the number of lesbian couples in the same position. Yeah.

alimony

see above

biased courts

You don't think getting harsher sentences, more convictions, etc. just because you are non-female is a problem?

abusive relationships

Again, since the policies governed how these are treated are strongly anti-men, trying to get counseling, or deal with it legally will be much more difficult, simply because of your gender.

see the MGTOW movement in a completely different light

Well, that's essentially what you're doing, essentially in the first place (not dating women), no? I think there could be some fruitful cross-pollination in sharing lifestyle ideas there.

baskandpurr · 2014-04-11T13:02:28+00:00

I believe there are quite a few gay MRA's but they don't bring it up unless it relevant to the issue at hand. Similarly there are black MRAs and female MRAs. Most of the issues being discussed apply to all men, and affect women, whatever the sexuality or race.

You're free to talk about an issues of men's rights that apply to gay men specifically or even make a gay MRA sub. But straight men probably won't talk about it very much because that would be patronising. The MRM doesn't do the feminist 'intersectionality' thing where it claims to understand the problems of a group better than the group, tell them what their problems are and how they should be solved.

blueoak9 · 2014-04-11T14:55:12+00:00

"However, being homosexual myself, I'm disappointed of what I perceive to be a lack of non-heterosexual MRAs. "

Honey, you need to recalibrate your gaydar. It's not picking up on us apparently. We've been here all along, here and in other MRM spaces. You are right, it's a matter of perception.

"I mean, we don't identify with the divorce, child custody, alimony, biased courts, and abusive relationships with women issues; "

Oh? A lot of us come out late in life. A lot of us have been in relationships with women, with all the drama and stress involved in being in a relationship with a woman, facing all the same inequalities in those relationships straight men face. A lot of us have children and face all those inequalities. A lot of us have sen this thing from both sides. I have. And I thank God every day I'm gay.

"Anyway, I'm just posting this to see if any non-heterosexual MRAs care to say hi and introduce themselves so we can get to know each other. That's all."

Hey there.

A gay MRA sub might be useful, but there is a good side to having us right here too.

aksuVOIMAMIES · 2014-04-11T11:02:05+00:00

In my opinion, no sense splitting up the issues unless they are radically different.

AlexReynard · 2014-04-11T12:11:26+00:00

I'm kind of a weird, difficult-to-describe sexuality, but there's at least a considerable amount of gay in there. So, hello! :)

VortexCortex · 2014-04-11T18:02:39+00:00

I mean, we don't identify with the divorce,

If you get married you might. Consider the women who bring their "sole and separate property" to a marriage and get to keep it upon divorce, while in many places men are not allowed this, and what they bring to a marriage is split up. So, perhaps some gay men would like to have "sole and separate property" laws too in their marriages? Or maybe that part of law is sexist and should be removed? That's just one issue, there are many many others.

child custody

Father vs Mother child custody cases are biased toward mothers and against fathers... this is even worse if the dad is gay or bi. Also, adoption bias against gay men is crazy rampant, even moreso than a single guy trying to adopt. Surrogacy rights also affect men and women, esp. gays since many would like to raise a child of their own stock rather than be limited to adoption.

alimony, biased courts, and abusive relationships with women issues

I would think getting rid of alimony would be a good thing. Some gay guys have ex wives and with more marriages on the books men's alimony in gay divorce my be an issue to address. For court bias? Pedo-fear is heaped in mounds on guys but even more so on gay guys. Baseless accusation of rape / abuse AND the alleged perp gay? Yeah, that's a problem magnified by homophobia.

There is a saying: United we stand, divided we are conquered.

I typically discourage spreading yourself too thin. I understand the need to commune with others who are more similar, and that's fine, but when it comes to rights advocacy and sympathy towards Men's Rights issues they affect men, women, straights, gays, bisexuals, and even cyborgs, so I'd like to think the MRM is open enough to include them and thus win additional support even if they don't affect the supporters directly.

To be clear, if there are any MRM related issues brought up in branch-off subs and they're not being discussed in the MRM proper, then they may not be getting the level of awareness and support they could have. More closely identifying with subgroups is inevitable and I'm not against that at all, but banding together the subgroups to solve issues Men's Rights issues should be encouraged.

jpflathead · 2014-04-11T17:49:38+00:00

Would you do me a favor and list the top 5 issues you believe the MRM tries to advocate for and explain how those issues are not supportive of non-heterosexual MRAs?

And then list another 5 that you think the MRM does not advocate for, but should because non-heterosexual MRA issues are MRA issues?

Also, just for kicks, can you provide me the link to the last reddit survey of /r/mensrights and give me your thoughts of that survey?

Can you name 5 MRA leaders and describe how they have not been supportive of gay rights?

Can you explain how

divorce,
child custody
alimony
biased courts
and abusive relationships with partners

Are not issues among gay couples, or men who have married and fathered and then realized they were gay or bisexual? Or gay children who lack relationships with their fathers because they have been alienated from them or because child custody is not being enforced?

2014-04-11T12:41:55+00:00

I prefer to term them men who are gay rather than gay men as I don't think we should distract any more from the issues that men face and it is just one faculty of their experiences as men.

Legolas-the-elf · 2014-04-11T18:12:14+00:00

I'm disappointed of what I perceive to be a lack of non-heterosexual MRAs.

1 in 5 /r/MensRights readers are non-heterosexual.

iongantas · 2014-04-11T11:04:17+00:00

Why do we need a separate subreddit?

2014-04-11T15:15:15+00:00

"Also, for example, female MRAs have their own subreddit. It's my opinion that it'd be great if some day there could be a gay MRAs one."

Make one and post links to it or subjects you find relevant to men here. Gay men and straight men face many of the same issues. Clearly matters dealing with women aren't the same. At any rate go ahead create the space.

thejimmy86 · 2014-04-11T12:04:00+00:00

As a straight dude, I still believe you can face the same issues we do. You could be treated poorly for being a man, regardless of your orientation. It's not as though people can necessarily tell you're gay by looking at you, and also most extreme feminists will NOT give you a pass for being gay. You still could suffer in the legal system if a woman and you get into an altercation. Personally I don't understand the need for a separate gay MRA sub as splintering would probably just weaken us and I still believe we have the same end state in mind. But no one is stopping you from making your own. Also, if you look at CAFE, they have a couple advisors that are gay.

2014-04-11T14:29:27+00:00

I'm straight but I'm interested in learning/discussing issues gay men face. If you post an article to this subreddit, I'll read it and contribute to the discussion where I can. If you choose to create a new subreddit, I'll subscribe to it and follow it.

It would be easier for me, if you just posted here. But, by all means, create a new subreddit if you believe that would be the best way moving forward.

rg57 · 2014-04-11T18:01:26+00:00

"I'm disappointed of what I perceive to be a lack of non-heterosexual MRAs."

Reading this sub, and seeing Fiamengo's university talks (introduced by a gay MRA, if I heard right) it seems there are a reasonable number of gay MRAs, including places other than the keyboard.

I'm not an MRA (LGBT is enough alphabet soup for me) but I do find this to be a place where evidence, logic, and open discussion are permitted. And you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss issues like "divorce, child custody, alimony, biased courts, and abusive relationships". Laws devised for straight people are being applied to gay people, particularly now that we have marriage.

Rather than splitting off into a gay MRA group, I encourage you to stay here. I don't think there's anything gay men (or women for that matter) have to say that has to be kept separate from straight men.

My position on LGBT is that the movement originated as a freedom movement, and ought to be big enough to include straight people, not just as "allies" but as people who could benefit from a little freedom. Equality is important. But it's not the whole story. It can't just be about having equally scripted and conforming lives.

phengineer · 2014-04-11T19:19:08+00:00

I'm not gay, but gay men is an important demographic, both for support, and for understanding men's issues through a different lens. You'll see a fair number of articles pop in here exclusively about gay men.

Crimson_D82 · 2014-04-11T21:23:54+00:00

Also, for example, female MRAs have their own subreddit. It's my opinion that it'd be great if some day there could be a gay MRAs one.

Make one. :) Even gay men are men.

danpilon · 2014-04-11T15:51:40+00:00

Unlike feminism, the MRM hasn't tried to co-opt the gay rights movement. Many of us here support gay rights, though I doubt it is 100%. To me at least, the issues are mostly separate, but with some areas of overlap. When there is overlap, then this is a good place to discuss it, but we are far from a gay rights community. I think you will find as many gay members here as in any other community, but it is not obvious because it is not usually a relevant thing to talk about.

Theophagist · 2014-04-11T22:57:11+00:00

'm disappointed of what I perceive to be a lack of non-heterosexual MRAs.

What if I told you everything a gay man says doesn't start every post with "I'm gay and...."?

So you have no idea what you're talking about. You don't and will never know how many homosexual men and women are here supporting the cause. Your presence is welcome but don't try to coopt MRA into the gay rights movement. They are separate issues.

RavenousPonies · 2014-04-12T17:59:08+00:00

I'm gay, I got involved with MRA-tivism because of the homophobic treatment towards gay men I received from the modern feminist community. I've been called sexiest multiple times, simply because I don't want to stick my cock in a vagina. In addition, I've heard nothing but stereotyping by feminists, such as 'gay men are weak and need to be protected'. The MRA community treats me with respect and views me as an equal person, unlike the feminists.

Also, a friend of mine was repeatedly sexually harassed by a girl and she was never punished, which pissed me off a lot.

circuitology · 2014-04-11T12:46:29+00:00

However, being homosexual myself, I'm disappointed of what I perceive to be a lack of non-heterosexual MRAs.

There is no need for token blacks, homosexuals, mexicans, asians or any other group in the MHRM.

The movement grows naturally, if you don't like the make-up of the group, maybe the problem lies with you..

*I find it very interesting that not trying to 'recruit' homosexuals because it 'would be good to have some homosexuals' is a controversial opinion. Maybe this subreddit is going down the pan as some members have been suggesting for some time. I'm obviously not suggesting to exclude any of the above groups, just to let them join naturally instead of trying to get them because they're gay/black/etc.

oshout · 2014-04-11T13:21:38+00:00

First, fuck labels.

Second, why wrap yourself in additional cloaks especially as a means to subdivide?

I'm not here for an ego-stroke nor to have my opinions reinforced- I won't ignore that women have equality issues, but what riles me up is that some women and society at large want to ignore men's, and furthermore, those same detractors would denounce even the thought of imbalance, when I can see it plainly exists.

I feel like I'm fighting injustice for men by recognizing and discussing the imbalance and its various facets - because I can't expect those fighting for female equality do to the same.

I'm also subbed to /r/equality, oney and twox - and again, I don't see the need to subdivide those into smaller groups.

It's easy to recognize that issues exist - no need to label every one and thing.

edit; i just tried to go to twox and found it private- so I guess i'm not subbed!

MRSPArchiver · 2014-04-21T17:28:25+00:00

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TRPACC · 2014-04-11T11:22:50+00:00

I think gay and bisexual people are over represented compared to the general population here - they were according to one survey anyway.

2014-04-11T11:52:46+00:00

YOu do realize that you can create your own subreddit, right?

IMULTRAHARDCORE · 2014-04-11T20:17:57+00:00

As a conservative without any conservative friends to speak of I share your desire to get to know some like minded people. However this isn't a social network (or dating service?). Your post is polite but offtopic. Not going to downvote you but maybe next time just try r4r if you're looking for gay MRA friends or even the meta subreddit if you strongly believe a gay MRA subreddit should exist. Thanks.

guywithaccount · 2014-04-11T19:45:52+00:00

there are no gay mra's. there are male mra's and female mra's. since men's rights doesn't concern itself with sexuality issues (even though some of the users do individually) there's no reason to differentiate between different people of different orientations.

2014-04-12T13:05:23+00:00

Homosexuals can only assist the MRM, not be true subject participants since the interests of homosexual men, and heterosexual men, is radically different.

I understand that homosexuals are trying to create a cultural progay zeitgeist. Look at the numbers, they already got heterosexual women(feminists), to support homosexuality, so they no longer have an interest. As time will go on, homosexuals will end up leaving feminism infavor of the HMRM, as a mechanism to force homosexual acceptance on heterosexual men.

That is the mindset of rapists. In a very real, but esoteric sense, homosexuals are raping the MRM. As more homosexuals try to take over the MRM, they will use violence, intimidation and other criminal acts. Not against us, but against children, men and women who are viewed as "pro-feminist" or have thoughts that go against what the gay mafia is trying to push.

Look up the history for yourselves, and it is plain to see that homosexuals instigated the gender war as part of their quest to legitimatize homosexuality, and have proudly used violence to silence dissent since the 60's-70's.

Regardless though, the homosexual take over of the MRM will be the death of the MRM(as homosexuals become more outspoken in MRM avenues, or any avenue, those avenues die), but perhaps that is the goal of the HMRM(Homosexual Marxist Revolutionaries Movement).

dullboy, feel proud of yourself for destroying another heterosexual male space.

Title	Gay MRAs?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	27
Comments	120
Date	April 11, 2014 10:29 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/22ro57/gay-mras/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/gay-mras.1616208 https://theredarchive.com/post/1616208

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