Incels - myth vs reality

Vegetable_Ad1732 · 2024-02-05T03:43:16+00:00

I just went through this with somebody. The thing is, all of these terms mean whatever you want them to mean. Some believe Incel no longer just means Involuntary celibate. And who the hell knows what Red Pill means? Used to mean you see reality, like in the Matrix, but now? Who knows? It's all just a word salad.

AmuseDeath · 2024-02-05T08:06:21+00:00

You say this, but 95% of reddit are white-knight feminist boys who will label anyone who points out bad women (see Amber Heard, Wanetta Gibson) as misogynist haters, who are too intellectually stunted and don't realize how conditioned they are to assuming every woman is innocent and must be protected.

Most women will assume any socially awkward male is an incel and so will most woke males who are either single themselves or are with a woman that they put on a pedestal.

So it's not just that the term gets slung around, it's the millions of passive men who put women on a pedestal for e-points and have zero compassion for their fellow brother.

DecisionPlastic9740 · 2024-02-05T12:16:37+00:00

Another myth is that they are violent. Most aren't.

eldred2 · 2024-02-05T01:17:07+00:00

I'm new to the word. I assumed it meant "men who won't kiss our ass".

Milk--and--honey · 2024-02-05T12:20:07+00:00

Definitely agree, fuckboys act entitled to sex 100000x more than guys that were involuntary virgins.

Felarhin · 2024-02-05T05:21:44+00:00

I tell people that if you want to know what it's like to be a young man without sex, go without food for two days and then imagine that the entire world is waving steaks around in your face and telling you that you can't have any and you're bad for thinking about it. An incel is someone who isn't quiet about it.

CatacombsRave · 2024-02-05T11:51:58+00:00

This. There are incels, male and female, and it’s wrong to think that incels are sexist, as misogynistic men can still get sex or a girlfriend (and often do). Incels often fear rejection, or they might be autistic or socially anxious.

ThisI5N0tAThr0waway · 2024-02-05T06:49:42+00:00

I specifically remember the joy of many feminist, leftist but also "normal" subreddits when the sub r/IncelsWithoutHate was banned from the platform. From the reactions I read, people had assumed that the name was a cover to harbor the toxic people who wear the label incel. And let's face reality, trash humans like Elliot Rogers exist and I hope nobody will defend him.

I didn't follow the sub that closely, and it's perfectly possible that at the end of the day the mods failed in their mission to keep the community somewhat clean, but let me tell you this At the very least, they fucking tried.

It was a group to discuss about the problem of male loneliness. The struggle, support resources, the memes (the good kind, I don't recall seeing dank memes or the kind who inspire blind hate towards women). How can anyone be against that ? Well, most people aren't. But also for lots of people the word "incel" only inspires a disgust reaction. And as everywhere on the internet, people will not probe the situation to see if it's actually the case, relying on their presumptions.

Character_Map_6683 · 2024-02-05T05:01:02+00:00

Not incel. Women are just generally a liability. Have met some great ones in my life. But most are a liability. That is why marriages used to come with a dowry. Anyone who thinks that is archaic and larptier... we are learning all over again why women were considered liabilities (in general). That being said, numerous examples of women throughout history were exemplary but guess what? Modern women don't look to them as role models so it doesn't matter.

Modern women look up to men (trying to be men) and trashy women who hate men as role models now. So I don't think it is a male issue. Women today are just unapproachable.

AbysmalDescent · 2024-02-05T16:01:24+00:00

I think it's worth noting that a lot of those points typically come as either as projection from certain women or just as a way for people who already hate virgin men, or any sort of criticism of society that do not reflect kindly on women, to then rationalize or legitimize their prejudice.

The idea that incels hate women is an oxymoron, how could they possibly hate women and also be affected by how they are judged by women? That power does not come from hate or indifference, it comes from love and desire. The idea that any sort of criticism against vile actions that women not only capable but socially protected in committed, or against toxic feminism, is equivalent to a hatred of women is quite evidently a very blatant attempt to silence that criticism. It is an attempt to gaslight men into believing that if they are treated unfairly by women, on a systemic level, that they should just accept it or be happy with it because anything else is the systemic hatred of women.

The idea that incels are entitled to sex is often used in this false narrative where an incel is supposedly entitled to having sex with a particular woman, when that is rarely(if ever) an actual position that incels push forward. That is another example of how people who already hate men will just create false arguments and narratives to justify silencing or hating those men. There's a chance that it might come from a personal projection, as there are certainly a lot of women out there who do genuinely feel entitled to sex from many men, just because they are women, but the reality is that virtually every argument that is labelled as entitlement is just speaking to broader social issues, gender inequalities and social prejudices. The type of men who genuinely feel "entitled" to sex from women are the type of men who are already in a position to take sex for granted. They are the type of men that women romanticize, pedestalize and respond to the most, which by definition puts them in direct opposition of incels. At worse, the only thing incels might feel "entitled" to, is being treated with a basic level of human decency.

The idea that incels just wants sex is another way for misandric people to try to silence and delegitimize incel men, playing into this other notion that men inherently bad for having a sexuality or for wanting to experience life, but seemingly only used to shame/attack whenever it is convenient for women. It's also a clear way to try to vilify those men, by trying to present them as objectifying women or uncaring people, which is quite often the complete opposite. The irony is that many incels end up as incels because they refuse to see sex or women as a commodity, the way a lot of other men who are in a position to take sex for granted would.

The idea that incels are just bitter because they can't get sex is an odd one, because the idea that having your sexuality either denied or vilified, or for not being able to experience a fundamental part of human existence, isn't a legitimate reason for people to feel frustrated or angry about is objectively incorrect and inhuman. That is a very legitimate feeling for someone to have in that position, and society would generally agree and sympathize to this position when it comes to women. The reality is that this is effectively another way for people to try to silence and dismiss male suffering.

Men can't always just resort to hiring an escort either, because those can often be criminalized or outside the means of any particular individual. Escorts also provide a very detached service, which is often cold and entirely disingenuous/fake. Even the idea that men should not only pay to be desired but also expected to compromise/endanger themselves to pursue women who only see them as a paycheck, simply because they are born of a certain gender, can be pretty disheartening or frustrating in of itself. Escorts aren't available to every man, nor are they for every man. There are no real standards of conduct for escorts, and some can certainly end up leaving men feeling worst than they were going in.

All this to say, that the word incel isn't just used to justify hating virgin men, which is they also believe is justified hate because it's assumed to be deserved, even when the word is used to attack any man(including the ones who are clearly not involuntarily celibate) but it is also often used to justify a hatred or contempt for all men. It is used so frequently as a term of hate against men, because it is inherently a gendered label.

alclarkey · 2024-02-06T02:08:14+00:00

Just to add, most rapists are Chads. And the psychology makes sense. How do people used to getting what they want react when someone finally says no?

Present_Animator5025 · 2024-02-05T09:08:53+00:00

Don’t ever let a Woman talk to you like that. Walk away.

MarwanMero · 2024-02-05T08:31:09+00:00

am I the only one that thinks it is ok for some men to hate women? I mean, women get fucking praised and empowered when they publicly hate men, so why isn't it the same the other way around?
Disclaimer: I love women so much so this is not a self projection or anything (well not the feminists ofc)

EquisDe · 2024-02-06T18:12:16+00:00

I’m gay, but the use of the term is really telling of society. It defines a man’s value based on his value to women and sex life.

HelloFuckYou1 · 2024-02-05T02:09:48+00:00

its the radical redpillers

its the blackpillers

who are the men who feel entitled to sex? the men who get them all the time. the playboys and chads. these are the men who would ghost a woman if he cant get sex on the third date.

agreed. pretty much the reversed of the women who think they deserve a top tier man

the only way for men to have easy access to sex like women do is by paying for it. the fact that these "incels" refuse to do it speaks character.

thats a good point, i really didn't think of that before

Calm-Cry4094 · 2024-02-05T05:47:47+00:00

Just legalize prostitution. Sugar relationship is legal too.

Problems solved.

Am I an incel? Technically I pay women to be with me. In practice our relationship is more than just transactional. For example, if I can get a woman far prettier than the one I currently have, I will not leave the current ones because I love her.

Normally men pays or financially support anyway.

I don't see how making this explicit is wrong or whatever.

Btw, I am not ugly or anything. A bit aspie. But yea it seems that the only way I get women is by paying. I aim for the smartest most beautiful one I can get though. So if I can get an ugly woman and I don't have to pay for it, I would pass. What's the point?

WhereProgressIsMade · 2024-02-05T15:22:09+00:00

it is not the incels who hate women, its the radical redpillers

Which redpillers are you talking about here? Quite a few of them are just trying to teach men how to learn some game and improve themselves enough to be able to trigger attraction in women. E.g. Athol Kay. It can help to a point and improve a 7 to an 8, or maybe a 4 to 6. Blackpill is basically realizing even being a 7 in today's dating market isn't enough, so why bother. I don't think they really hate women either. Maybe some do; I don't visit that stuff so I don't really know.

Redpillers act like they have some new revelation or discovery about the darker sides of female nature, but they really have very little that's new. Mostly they've just condensed what you can find in thousands of years of human literature down to something more manegable. Even the Bible talks about how women have an internal conflict about being attracted to men who lead but wanting to try to take that for herself, but if she does, her attraction will probably fade too.

Yeah, there's toxic guys/stuff out there. For me, it helped rekindle my marriage and I don't see how learning how to better trigger those attraction reactions in my wife is hating women.

HotwheelsJackOfficia · 2024-02-05T22:44:58+00:00

The world hates them simply for existing. They are all unattractive physically, and many of them are also autistic or have some other illness or disability. Who wouldn't be bitter if you're treated horribly your whole life for something beyond your control?

DragonKnight0x · 2024-02-06T03:24:29+00:00

Finding a religion and putting down the game controller will solve a lot of young's men problems.

Sharp_Hope6199 · 2024-02-05T03:58:31+00:00

Serious question- if they can get sex but choose not to, how are they “incels?” (INvoluntarily CELibate)

Present_Animator5025 · 2024-02-05T08:54:12+00:00

Why bother? These hoes still asking me for big money after we broke up years ago. ‘Meat raffle’ chicks. “Where’s the dough?”.

Wise_Transition_7188 · 2024-02-05T16:33:27+00:00

Amen OP you said a mouth full on that one.

Marvinkmooneyoz · 2024-02-05T18:56:21+00:00

Certainly not a given that an incel hates themselves, or even neccesarily the situation they are in.
What do you have against red-pill?

Agree with you otherwise, good post

But be careful about such posts, REDDIT in general is looking for excuses to take down this sub, and also, the mods do take down stuff that is related to the topic of mensrights, but leaning in the direction of what some of the banned subs were about.

fanesatar123 · 2024-02-05T09:44:35+00:00

idk how you managed to defend incels in such a way that still puts men down...

tilldeathdoiparty · 2024-02-05T02:44:03+00:00

I’m sorry bud, but many women throw icel around as a way to insult the men they don’t want, it’s a shit test that many fail due to lack of confidence and the ability to think on their feet.

I would have fallen into this category about from about 11-4 years ago, I wasn’t getting laid, I was frustrated with the quality of women who wanted me, but in reality it was my own perception of myself that needed to change. I have made the changes I wanted to and have chosen to grow into someone more desirable, getting a better job, taking care of myself, pushing away from lifelong friends that may have been supportive but also enabling my situation.

Red pill info is not all negative, there is a message that needs to be heard, NO ONE IS GOING TO SAVE YOU, it’s up to you, so do the work and make yourself a more attractive, approachable man who has his life and affairs in order. The problem with the red pill stuff is the extreme views are magnified but the underlying message is what needs to be heard, you are in control of your own reality. This message isn’t going to change anyone’s mind, it comes off rather cringey because I don’t know anyone ever who has had someone admit that they were masterbated to outside of a creep saying it.

Real men handle their problems, yes there is some things that we need to correct and there are many other things we want to make sure doesn’t happen to men’s rights, but you getting called uncle in one of the issues. Custody, forced constriction, prison time, child support, those are the real issues at hand, not your precious ego when you aren’t willing to dig deep and change your situation, or chase the women in ‘your league’.

I am sure I will get downvoted heavily, but I always felt this sub was more of a way to support men and build each other up, give advice when going through a divorce, but lately it’s only a place to complain to an echo chamber of men who aren’t willing to bust their ass and become the very best version of themselves.

keepinitreal567 · 2024-02-05T07:55:48+00:00

Mh I dont know about other women and can just speak for myself but I think most women arent as sexual as males. My argument always was that women get offered sex easily by men but they dont seek out for sex, they seek out for a relationship which is not that easy offered at least not anymore in todays society. Maybe I'm wrong with that. I wouldn't have sex with someone I don't want to have a relationship with. But since marriages are broken and mostly unhappy I stay a volcel for now. I don't want to end up like my mother with a guy that all out the sudden is unhappy with me and starts to treat me bad. Men often get mean verbally if they are unhappy. I got low self esteem I don't want to be indirectly bullied because my partner is not happy anymore and realizied he only married me because he wanted to have sex but doesnt like my person at all. It makes no sense for a woman to be as sexual as men. You can be pregnant only once a year and having a partner was important for survival in nature. Thats why women hate it when men only want sex. In nature it is dangerous for her life. I really start to doubt that most men want a relationship at all and not only thinking they would want that when in real they just want sex. That maybe don't count for a Stacey tho.

Otherwise I was on Incel website and already discussed some things. I aggree with some points tho and it is true that dating is even harder for an average male as well. I guess too many men competing for less women on a global level. Otherwise I met some hateful Incels that openly said that they hate women. But not all of them are like that. Most were pretty normal just depressed. Incel is a group by sharing the same fate. Thats why they are so different I guess

Expensive_Bee_5878 · 2024-02-05T06:12:56+00:00

Question: (Not trying to disagree) If Incels aren't people who hate women, what is the average man that hates women called?

BadmonTG23 · 2024-02-05T03:20:29+00:00

Doesn’t incel just mean abstaining from sex

xxTheMagicBulleT · 2024-02-05T06:20:03+00:00

Redpill is just the same as feminists. What have you done for me lately?

And if women wanna be free of their gender roles. Why should i uphold my gender roles??

Im very red pill. Im very treat others how you like to be treated. And if you demanding special treatment. But dont wanna give it. I think your a hypocrite and dont deserve special treatment. Not all but many Redpill men have no trouble pulling women. So we also don't put pussy on a pedestal.

The difference is red pills are often men that do get picked. And can act the bad boys. Cause they just demand the same things women demand of them.

Incels. Or easier said the awkward men that dont know how to act talk to women. Just dont get seen or picked. And cause off that. Have no backbone in a relationship.

Just like feminists have unrealistic expectations in relationships.

Redpills dont. Many know they can pull girls. And girls want to make it more then it is and often are okay with it.

And it's just a fact. Women like confident take charge of men. It makes women feel safer to be around.

Then men that are akward and 20 times ask is this ok. You wanna do this.. ow sorry but but can we do that.

Men that don't get body language. Dont get the tells of women. And cant test the waters without being a creep.

But at its core. Redpill men are just men that have a easier time pulling girls. But find if girls dont upholding there gender roles. Why should a men uphold them.. its just that simple. Nothing more nothing less.

For me there is no hate. Or nothing. I just dont invest heavily in people not investing in me. We are equal right thats the demand today right? So what you give is what you get. You give nothing you get nothing. Its how the feminists wanted it and they got it equal rights all around.

Cant demand traditional outcomes if you are unwilling to be traditional at all yourself.

And I only commit to a woman that understands i won't put her on a pedestal if she does not put me on a pedestal.

Thats equality right?

Else il only do traditional outcomes with fully traditional women.

Not hard to grasp. There is no women hating no cry cey moan moan. Ow the world is so unfair.

No you learn the rules and adapt to it. And play the game with there rules. And protect your self.

Its not all that hard. Just like any craft you have to study up at it. Just like people start out being terrible at cooking at first. Take the time and effort and you improve and make beautiful meals right.

Women are the same. Women are at there core easy but have a lot of nuances too them. Just like cooking can be.

At its core women only open up to guys they can feel safe with. But what is feeling safe? Thats on you to find out.

Like most women would even try and reject the first advance a men takes to see if a men would act out or anything. Why most men ask. They get rejected. The lingering say nice stuff. And slow how calm and comfortable they are being rejected. And calm done a woman with them.

And its honestly quite easy to get a number or to pull girls. Just know women are and think differently then men.

And looks matter less. Then being ok with rejection and being calm. And just keep talking. Creating a safe zone around you with the women will make its quite easy to pull a girl.

Most men are like ow.... hmm i like you.. wanna go out...

Women: Neh im good...

Ow. Ok.. bye..

While if you just go like.

"Hey girl. Sorry to bother you just had to walk up to you and get to know you a bit better"

-expect shit test rejection-

Yea no problem no problem. Just tought you looked realy cute. And just tought maybe you wanna hang out and just have a drink together. Sometimes.

(People often make the excuses that there new or dont know the city)

But you get the point. Know Women's shit tests. That's will makw you more successful. And dont put women on a pedestal. Make them invest in you too. Pull back when they not respectful to you. And demand women take accountable for there actions but also take accountability for your own actions.

Live by example. And dont be demanding ow women have to acepting me. No learn the game and take your success. Study up on the rules. The shit tests and play the game.

Its realy not that hard honestly.

Just like of you dont learn to cook you wil starve.

If you dont learn the rules how to handle women you dont get to fuck.

Both are your fault. Cause you dont take the time to learn and gain the skills needed to be successful.

Its that damn easy be accountable for where you are in life its that easy

ContraMans · 2024-02-05T23:47:03+00:00

As a man... I would pose that much of this is a misdiagnosis and some of this is downright facetious. Pretending that much of incel culture is somehow not 'misogynistic' is utterly absurd. In fact that is the primary mechanism which drives much of how incels are told they should act by the 'Alpha Male' figures within them. They use their discontentment with their sex life as a means of validation for those men that they might then exploit that very same thing to take advantage of them, primarily for financial gain or as a part of some Ponzi scheme or other such scams.

Incels are very much bitter about their inability to acquire sex and they do, by and large, very much hate women... but the reasons for that are actually incorrect. Just the same as the myths that incels only want sex and feel entiteld to sex are exactly that: Myths. Not because they are not true but because the underlying reasons for that belief are the result of a grievous misdiagnosis of what is causing young men to become incels in the first place. And that is, of course, that the vast majority of men are, and have been for decades, suffering from chromic emotional starvation and emotional objectification.

Men have been taught since they were young that any expression of emotion is inherently bad for men, that it is 'feminine' or somehow 'childish' for them to cry and express emotions or grievances. They are told to suck it up, be a man and do something about it, control yourself, here take a shot of whiskey and a smoke it'll numb your pain, be stoic, be in control, be strong because nobody wants to see a grown man whine. Nobody wants to have anything to do with a weak man, a beta male, an effeminate man and if you are crying and whining you have only yourself to blame and you should stop seeking pity because you have failed as a man. This is the standard of 'gender role' that men have been every bit as oppressed by socially as any gender roles that have been historically used to oppress women. That being emotional or emotionally intelligent even is somehow an inferior quality that is inherent weakness for men to express because it means, if you have to be emotional or become emotionally intelligent, you have failed to be a proper man and get the things you want the proper way and you should be shamed for it.

Sure the winds are beginning to stir against this narrative but it's little more than the faintest of breezes against the mighty hull of the Titanic and it is still widely acceptable to discriminate and belittle men for expressing weakness. And in that zealous pursuit of raising up strong men they are often deprived of much of the emotional affection, care and nurturing that is essential for them to become well adjusted, healthy, functional adults capable of recognizing and regulating their own emotions. They do get served three meals a day, they're just ever so slightly insufficient to actually provide the necessary emotional nutrition to stave off this malnutrition that leads to them growing into apathetic, emotional voids that are all but atrophied inside all because we don't want to raise effeminate men that might be taken advantage of in society by both men and women.

Then these men are told the only valid form of emotional validation they are permitted to receive is through romantic, primarily sexual, gratification and the same societies that tell men this are often then surprised when men turn around and have a maladaptive hyper fixation on sex because they are in such dire need of the ability to express any emotion besides anger, which is simultaneously the only emotion they are permitted to express while also being the same emotion which is allowed for them to be expressed for the sole purpose of being used against them to demonstrate how dangerous and violent they are and how everyone should fear them further alienating them from the world and their emotional selves.

MajestikMann · 2024-02-05T01:31:16+00:00

I frequent a lot of incel message boards. Im not one, but a lot of self identified incels do really have problems with misogyny. Pretending this doesn’t exist makes people look out of touch with reality.

TheMassiveMexipino02 · 2024-02-09T01:04:09+00:00

The biggest myth of all is an incel, along with misogynist, equates to just saying/doing absolutely anything that goes remotely against women, even if it’s for simply calling out some women’s actions. I’ve been called an incel just for saying I’m against a lot of the narrative for modern feminism and I’m not even a virgin. You just can’t win with them, so don’t even play the game and just live your life in peace

Title	Incels - myth vs reality
Author	barkmagician
Upvotes	236
Comments	154
Date	February 5, 2024 1:09 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1aj433n/incels_myth_vs_reality/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/incels-myth-vs-reality.1244621 https://theredarchive.com/post/1244621

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