Is the wage gap real?

House_of_Raven · 2023-08-12T21:16:50+00:00

The wage gap isn’t real in its original sense. A man and a woman will make the same salary or hourly rate if their situation is the same.

Men do earn more money on average than women, but it’s because they on average work longer hours, take less time off, work more dangerous jobs, seek promotions and raises, and are more career oriented.

So it’s not a gap in wages, but a gap in earnings. What people also consistently fail to mention though, is that on average women also make 80% of purchases in a household. So there’s also definitely a value transfer that typically goes from men towards women.

Suspicious-Sleep5227 · 2023-08-12T21:24:21+00:00

The controlled gender pay gap is the only legitimate measure which the article pegged at 99 cents on the dollar. So basically the gap is non existent. The “uncontrolled” wage gap simply boils down to choices men and women make. Granted women often choose to leave the workforce to raise kids at a time when their career growth would kick in to high gear. But that’s a much more nuanced conversation than the current one being played out in popular culture.

-Merasmus- · 2023-08-12T21:25:07+00:00

First of all why are their firsr two "key arguments" the same argument lol

Second: what do businessess want? To be a boy's club and help their fellow dick owners, or is it to make as much money as possible? If you can get away with paying women 17% less, any company would hire nothing but women. 17% on one of any company's biggest costs is just huge. Plus it's illegal.

So if the pay gap exists, that means that those employers risk having to pay huge settlements after being exposed, and ofcourse drag their name trough the mud, just so they can advantage people for their gender by paying them more, which cuts into their profits.

JJnanajuana · 2023-08-12T23:22:32+00:00

Yep, its real and its 1%

Or as the article puts it:

There are two types of gender pay gaps: the controlled and uncontrolled gap. The controlled gap measures the difference in pay between men and women performing the same job, with the same experience and qualifications. The uncontrolled gap represents the overall difference in pay between men and women, considering all the jobs and industries in which they work.

The controlled gender pay gap, which considers factors such as job title, experience, education, industry, job level and hours worked, is currently at 99 cents for every dollar men earn.

So same work same pay is, almost there.

But "the gender pay gap is 17%" as stated in this article near the top, and as promoted anywhere it's promoted.

Whenever we get the 1% info we get an explanation of what that means and what it takes into account. When we get the 17% info it doesnt get the what or why, it's just "the pay gap" and people walk away thinking its the discrimination gap, not the choices gap.

Not that the 17% gap isnt worth looking into, to see why people are making those choices and how free they are to make them.

Motherhood was a big part of the gap, increasing flexable work hours would help a lot with that, as well as help reentering the work force after a gap. as well as having more parenting leave for fathers.

Another factor is, while pay is nice and all, its compensation for doing stuff you dont want to do. Do men want to work more overtime, or more dangerous jobs?

16% of the pay gap represents a difference in coices and lifestyles. I dont know how to tell whos at a bigger advantage with that, the people sacrificing pay for family, lifestyle, safety or the people sacrificing family, lifestyles, safety for pay.

le_flapjack · 2023-08-13T02:15:09+00:00

Of course it's real. Women in their 20s greatly out earn men in their 20s. We need to do something to lessen it.

Joneboy39 · 2023-08-13T00:13:38+00:00

in my last job we all got paid the same and it was all about girl power. but anytime something difficult came up it was somehow my job (requiring physical male attributes and skills ) to take the job.

that’s equality nowadays, we get the danger but the pay is the same .

so yeah the wage gap is real, just that it works against men

Loud-Mathematician76 · 2023-08-12T22:57:29+00:00

Forbes is spewing so many lies nowadays.Remember Razzlekhan /Heather R Morgan
? the mentally ill chick who got caught with 4 billion dollars in stolen bitcoins ? She was a Forbes contributor for a whilehttps://www.forbes.com/sites/heathermorgan/?sh=66169f737f7d

and there are even worst examples. Forbes is heavily influenced by NGOs and is spewing propaganda hit pieces.

Buddhalove11 · 2023-08-13T04:11:46+00:00

No. Every female I work with either makes the same or more and most do less work. If not most a lot. Some legitimately bust their asses though for the record.

Reasonable_Listen514 · 2023-08-13T00:00:12+00:00

No. The "wage gap" that feminists have been complaining about is actually an EARNINGS gap that's accounted for by men choosing higher earning and more dangerous careers, and working more hours than women per year on average. As an example, in the trades, it isn't uncommon for workers to put in 10-20 or even more hours of overtime per week during big projects. Trades are dominated by men (women simply choose to not go into the trades). How often have you ever known women to put in 60 hour weeks? Over 90% of workplace injuries and deaths are men, because women choose not to enter those professions. More danger = more pay, and it should. I've never met a female electrical lineman, oil rig worker, lumberjack, or roofer; and it's not because those jobs are closed to women.

Being that it is illegal to pay someone less for being a woman, there would be countless businesses currently in litigation for the issue if the "wage gap" was as prevalent as feminists claim. That, and if employers could get away with paying women less for the same work, they wouldn't be hiring men.

Among millennials, there is actually a real wage gap developing at office jobs in many of the larger cities where women are being paid more than men for the same work due to "diversity and equity" policies designed to give women a leg up.

KochiraJin · 2023-08-13T00:30:58+00:00

I direct you to the table labeled "Controlled v. Uncontrolled Wage Gap in 2023". See the uncontrolled wage gap line? That compares janitors to neurosurgeons and is therefore useless. That's the wage gap feminists complain about. The controlled gap in the line above takes into account all the variables we can measure. As you can see it is so small that it's probably within the margin of error.

crafty0000 · 2023-08-13T05:50:01+00:00

At least the article mentions the Controlled Pay Gap. In the UK, that's barely ever discussed, and everyone clumsily uses the Uncontrolled stat - mostly because it makes for better headlines, and fits with the overall narrative that men are surpressing and holding back women.

I'm sure there are still a few companies where there is a genuine pay gap - but as many others have said here, overall it's closed to almost zero, and there are cases where it swings the other way in favour of women.

Sadly, where I work they are obsessed with the Uncontrolled Pay Gap stats, and are artificially inserting women into more senior roles in order to correct a 'problem' that doesn't exist in the business (everyone is paid the same on a like-for-like basis). It's turned into a vanity stat for a lot of companies, where they want to be able to claim that they've "closed the gender pay gap".

So in some sense it is 'real' - but only because people are making it real for their own ends.

ArcturasMooCow · 2023-08-13T00:51:06+00:00

Everybody's hustling 🐮

Royal_IDunno · 2023-08-13T05:36:03+00:00

No it isn’t, it’s been debunked numerous times but the feminists still use it as a weapon which is so dumb. This is a post I made ages ago debunking the wage gap: https://reddit.com/r/antifeminists/s/4XNypwhstY

KingDinohunter · 2023-08-12T22:51:24+00:00

Yes and no in the U.S. at least, because women usually dominate industries where they make less like teaching and nursing they make less overall. Combined with mothers it created a median or average in one controversial survey that I believe for every 79 cent a woman makes a man a dollar. So, feminist use they lie to promote this myth and LIE. Also thanks to the equal pay act of 1963 that is sixty years. The issue requires some nuance as well.

l33t-h4x0r-on-fet · 2023-08-12T23:29:53+00:00

Look at the controlled gender wage gap on the link you posted…

ithinkmynameismoose · 2023-08-13T02:03:44+00:00

Not as advertised by social justice inclined internet ‘pundits’.

Men as a group out earn women. That’s about it.

hudibrastic · 2023-08-13T05:20:06+00:00

The article itself says

“The controlled gender pay gap, which considers factors such as job title, experience, education, industry, job level, and hours worked, is currently at 99 cents for every dollar men earn.[2]”

Wow, 99 cents for every dollar, what a huge pay gap, and I bet they manipulated the number as much as possible to get to this number

kirewes · 2023-08-13T00:37:40+00:00

It exists depending on the context of how you look at it. However when you look at individual hourly pay and position to individual hourly pay and position, no

bdash1990 · 2023-08-13T06:38:27+00:00

Yes the wage gap is real. It's the gap between base worker and CEO salaries. And it's hundreds of times larger than any potential gap between men and women.

Unionize, and we all get raises.

LaserNebula986 · 2023-08-12T21:16:56+00:00

Even then women still want a man who makes more money than them so I don’t understand their complaints. Also some people have to understand that men do the more physically demanding jobs and therefore deserve better pay. You can’t have it both ways 🤷‍♂️

nubesmateria · 2023-08-12T22:10:31+00:00

I can tell you there's a perception gap.

(Generalizing here but)

Women tend to be more timid both I'm negotiation as well as their perception of their abilities.

Men, on the other hand, tend to over estimate their abilities and negotiate harder.

Then there are also "in-group" cognitive patterns where ... sometimes men prefer to hire and work with men ... and vice versa for women.

So while women's rights have significantly improved and they are defi ately making more $$.... the factors mentioned above inadvertently still result in an average wage gap.

NotReallyFunny28 · 2023-08-13T07:31:42+00:00

I'd say it's not real unless they specifically say how it is real. No companies will put lower pay on women and simply hire men because they're gender biased with work. If it is really happening, more women should be on the work force and it will be guised as women empowerment to work while receiving less pay.

I'd also like to highlight, if it is indeed real. I would totally support it but I wouldn't support it as a statistic. If there's actual stories and proofs, I'd support being against the people they're working for. Gender wars is one thing but employee v employer is a different issue.

If there's a way for employers to get employees do work for little pay, they'd actually do it, regardless of gender. In the Philippines, construction workers and engineers are cheated out of they pay. The approved standard for pay computation is 8 hours a day and 5days a week. It is also approved if certain industries need to work 6 days a week but computation needs to be changed for the daily rate and the hourly rate. What these companies do is keep the 8 and 5 pay computation, say that the position is 6 days 8hours a week but make them attend only 5 days so their daily rate and overtime is lesser than what it was supposed to. They get away from this because they technically faulted the government and almost plenty of construction/contractor companies do this to give employees less pay. They make you sign a waiver and the terms of the contract states that you cannot go against them as they'll fine you for 1000 times higher than your salary (my contract says $176858.30 fine if I go against them)

I'm a female engineer and is also a part of it. I get less pay among my male engineer coworkers. We have no match with the corporation and I opted out working altogether. Pay is already low, entry level is around $230-310 a month. Laborers is also the same or a bit higher. I spoke up when my coworkers were being threatened of not getting overtime pay and was almost got fired for it. I asked my coworkers for their payslip so I can help them see any discrepancies in their pay (I'm quite good with accounting so I audit my payslips and would go against the management for it.)

For that matter, I'd say, based on my story and engineers within my industry, there is no gender wage gap. For small business owners that I personally know, I can also attest that there's no gender wage gap. To the international work I'm currently employed, I asked my coworkers for their pay and I'd say that theres no gender wage gap.

If these people would claim that the gender wage gap is almost rare and still real, then it's not even impossible to just fixate on those issues as an individual thing and talk about it as a union. If they fixate on it as a gender issue and as a statistic when it's a corporate issue, the matter at hand will never be solved and actual people who needs to be accountable will never be held accountable. Gender wage gap shouldn't be pinned down to men. Corporate and business are lady-owned/operated too. If this thing needs to be addressed, we need women in different corporate positions to speak out. HR and accounting department at least. And hold man and women responsible for these gender wage gap to exist.

SecTeff · 2023-08-13T07:58:43+00:00

Part of this is because women tend to have more time off their career to raise children.

So if people want to address it they should increase men’s paternity rights and increase the rights of fathers to have an equal say and role in raising children.

KPplumbingBob · 2023-08-13T08:36:43+00:00

I like how their own data shows there is no real (controlled) pay gap but literally everything is written as if women are paid less for the same job. When citing reasons why the uncontrolled gap exists they start with "discrimination". "Women are paid xx cents for every dollar a man makes" is such a dishonest way to look at it but general population eats is up.

Shdwfalcon · 2023-08-13T08:48:00+00:00

What that article intentionally leave out is that men are usually the main provider, who are the ones that commit extra into their career in order to earn more. Meanwhile, women falter behind because they cannot commit as much or more due to needing more time and focus on parenting and raising kids. This is to be expected. You cannot have your cake and eat it.

People who put in more hours or commit more to the job or career naturally expect to earn more. Men are generally the ones who had to do that, in fact, that is social expectation. We don't really have any choice.

NeoNotNeo · 2023-08-13T11:14:32+00:00

The earnings gap is real. The wage gap is not. It’s pathetic how many times men have to mansplain this.

A carpenter and plumber make more than a waitress or cashier. If you want their income get some work boots.

chewiesnutshot · 2023-08-13T15:22:19+00:00

The Equal Pay Act was passed in 1963. Since then it has been illegal to pay someone less for the same job whether they’re a woman or a man.

Further more when they calculate the “wage gap” they aren’t doing so based on types of jobs but pumping them altogether.

Men do the most dangerous and physically hard jobs that should and do pay more. That’s also why the vast majority of workplace deaths (well over 90% depending on industry) are men.

You can dissect their own data and see this reality.

hwjk1997 · 2023-08-13T18:29:59+00:00

When comparing work experience, time worked, and the same exact jobs, women can make even more. But they're less likely to ask for a raise, work overtime, and they take more time off.

lewandisney69 · 2023-08-13T19:11:11+00:00

It’s real. But it’s not based on gender discrimination. It’s based on their own choices.

fiwdilidc · 2023-08-13T21:03:21+00:00

This article was written by a woman, and then edited by another woman. Also, I wonder what the pay gap on OF is and what we're doing to fix that.

Ohadi_Nacnud · 2023-08-14T05:03:16+00:00

No it's not. It's been debunked a million times.

Dry-Sheepherder-8432 · 2023-08-15T04:38:05+00:00

You would have to evaluate a situation without considering many things, and that is exactly what happens.

KnifeWieldingRoomba · 2023-08-15T10:07:14+00:00

Feels kind of scary that people on here are still discussing something that was talked to death like what... a decade ago? At some point you would hope some of the basics have spread enough for these things to be common knowledge... guess you can take it as a sign that more new people are coming in, if you want to be optimistic about it

DrewYetti · 2023-08-15T17:32:13+00:00

Sigh, it’s not an wage gap, it’s an earnings gap as men earn more as they work more hours and do dangerous, dirty and deadly jobs. But men also pay more taxes, which feminists will never acknowledge or care.

Nelo999 · 2023-09-20T01:05:06+00:00

The so called "Gender Wage Gap" is a completely fabricated myth with no credible evidence whatsoever to back it up.

Even "Liberal" media outlets like the CBS and the Economist believe it is a myth, in addition to a massive study by the United States Department Of Labour back in 2019, basically debunking the entire concept.

Title	Is the wage gap real?
Author	WhiteAirforc3s
Upvotes	117
Comments	72
Date	August 12, 2023 8:26 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/15pen9s/is_the_wage_gap_real/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/is-the-wage-gap-real.1228390 https://theredarchive.com/post/1228390

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