Lets talk about the argument "men commit more violent crime"

Cunari · 2022-06-10T18:43:04+00:00

Violence is a last resort. Women have more resorts before violence.

Huffers1010 · 2022-06-10T21:29:59+00:00

The two statements "Men commit more violent crime" and "most violent crimes are committed by men" are subtly but crucially different.

Eleutherlothario · 2022-06-10T21:20:55+00:00

Why does it matter?

This is the only context - when talking about men - where generalized negative statements about an identifiable group are considered acceptable. If this were any other context, if the subject was any other group, making negative generalized statements would be considered to be bigotry and treated as hate speech.

Go to any mainstream subreddit or any large-enough social media site and say you want to talk about 'black crime'. No amount of explanation that you are only talking about the small fraction of black people who also happen to be criminals will suffice. You will be shut down, regardless of your intentions. So why do the same sites accept terms like 'male violence'?

We do not have to offer any explanations other than this: men, like any other group out there, are a diverse group of individuals with varying characteristics. Some are great humans, some are not. Each man deserves to be seen and treated as an individual, with his own set of characteristics and foibles, and free from generalizations made on the basis of politically-expedient assumptions and judgements.

WhereProgressIsMade · 2022-06-10T17:18:21+00:00

spoilers for the movie, "The Hateful Eight"

There's a scene in the movie "The Hateful Eight" where Samuel Jackson's character, Major Warren, leaves a pistol on the table next to elderly Confederate general Sanford Smithers. He then verbally provokes him quite extensively until Sanford finally reaches for the gun and Major Warren then shoots him dead in "self-defense."

It never seemed quite right to me, and I imagine that was Quinten Tarantino's intention by making Warren's verbal abuse as extreme, extensive, and exaggerated as possible (the scene is also quite long). I imagined that if I were provoked like that, I too would could have a hard time resisting attempting violence. In fact I did have a situation a few years ago where a guy was trying to provoke me and I realized I needed to get myself out of that situation before I did anything I'd regret, so I left.

Anyway, being provoked is hard to define and it can't be an excuse, but I sometimes wonder how many violent crimes are really out of the blue and how many are provoked like general Smithers.

63daddy · 2022-06-10T16:49:07+00:00

Basic argument I often see:

Man: Men are victims of crime as much or more so than women.

Feminist: But men commit more crime than women.

One has nothing to do with the other. A victim is a victim regardless of their gender and regardless of the victim of the perpetrator. Just because more crimes are committed by men doesn’t mean male victims are less deserving of help and justice or that crimes against men somehow doesn’t matter.

Also, just because more crimes are committed by men, doesn’t make all men criminals as the “all men are rapists” commentary claims. The vast majority of men never sexually assault anyone.

rabel111 · 2022-06-11T00:32:43+00:00

First off, women's violence is treated less seriously than men's violence. This perpetuates a culture where women's violence is overlooked and not counted in most epidemiological studies. So when we say men commit more violent crime, we should really be saying men are arrested, charged and convicted of more violent crime. Women's violence is frequently not subjected to the criminal process.

Secondly, men's violence reflects the social determinants of violence, the circumstances where men find themselves so marginalised and abandoned by our public and private support services, they have few alternatives but to turn to crime, and be exposed to the associated violence.

Thirdly, feminists are absolutely delighted in the current state of affairs, where they can claim men are violent beasts and women hapless victims, and aggressively oppose initiatives aimed at assisting men, or providing them alternative life altering programs prolificly available for women.

kmikek · 2022-06-10T22:40:30+00:00

criminals commit crimes. there. fixed it.

Pepperclue_55 · 2022-06-10T18:11:25+00:00

I strongly think it isnt about gender at all, its about opprotunity. Give women the opprotunity, physically or mentally, and they will commit tons of violent crimes too. I think men just more often have the physical opprotunity. Testosterone is linked to aggression but women also have testosterone and if they have more than average it can cause lots of personality and physical changes.

Most criminals commit out of necessity. Out of desperation or hopelessness. And this system breeds so much of that. The average attractive women can move in with any random dude and get a place to sleep and food to eat- most men cant. I think that leads to a different type of isolation and fear, and maybe a bit more antisocial tendencies.

All of that leads to more crimes, imho. We definitely need to talk about it more.

iainmf · 2022-06-11T01:09:25+00:00

The modern feminist theory on society is that biology is completely unrelated to behavior, and therefore men commit more violent crimes because society has conditioned them to do so. They believe that active interventions (see: "teach boys not to rape" / "teach feminism in school") will lower violence rates despite there being no real evidence to support this theory.

This is not to say that I oppose social means to solve societal problems. I just believe that the feminist solutions are stupid. My suggestions would be:

High school classes on successful interpersonal relationships in the curriculum.
More intervention programs for at-risk youth.
More male teachers in primary education to serve as positive male role models.

You have to understand that feminists rely on their "social conditioning is everything" theory because the movement's primary objective is not to improve on women's rights, but to denigrate men. If men are more likely to commit certain violent acts for biological reasons (see: they are), there's no real way to point a finger at them.

DouglasWallace · 2022-06-11T16:26:27+00:00

Most crime - including violent crime - goes unsolved.

Not until we can say for sure who commits those unsolved crimes, can we say for sure who commits most crimes.

We cannot extrapolate from the solved crimes and assume the same percentage because police concentrate on crimes where a man committed them. (They do that for good reason: police have limited time and the courts will only take male criminals off the street. So crimes committed by women are lower in the budget for police time.)

Financial_Science350 · 2022-06-11T19:28:01+00:00

This is how women abuse 101. This is one of the most common tactics used by women to abuse and control men. They create a problem, a conflict, a situation and then they wait for the response. If the response is not severe enough, they repeat the pattern and they continue to do this, until they get a volatile, unhinged or socially unacceptable response. They then point the finger, usually to some type of community service such as police or family members or some form of the public who are not privily to the history or the situation. They then play victim and take no accountability for their role or actions. To say that women are not responsible for the unhinged behaviors of men is a lie as old as time. Most men knows this, but it's not until around the age of 30 that we begin to accept how pervasive and damaging these abuses are. When we then congregate and speak out against it, they call us bitter and incels. They shame us for the very attempt to put a stop to the abuse.

International_Risk82 · 2022-06-10T20:12:47+00:00

It's both predictable and logical for the majority of violent criminals to be men, because men have the biological facilities to help commit such crimes. This doesn't detract from the importance/gravity of the reported statistics. Should we not care about domestic abuse victims in lesbian relationships (which are 44%) because it's women who are abusing women? This is victim blaming and gaslighting at its finest.

This goes without saying that women are just as abusive but in different ways; mostly in intimate relationships, and they use weapons to compensate.

ArsenicumAlbum · 2022-06-11T06:53:25+00:00

I think a lot more violence is happening by woman, but on a sneaky way like with all the poisonings from this website!!!

HikuroMishiro · 2022-06-11T21:32:25+00:00

I disagree with both premises. I don't think testosterone has anything to do with violence, at least in any kind of simple matter. Even if overly aggressive men and overly aggressive women may both have elevated testosterone, the most psychotic raging female murderer is still going to have way less testosterone than a male Buddhist monk that has never hurt a fly in his life. Neural chemistry is very complicated and despite the common practice, reducing it down to 'testosterone = aggression' is so egregiously simplified I'd call it wrong. Not that it's impossible for any gendered differences to have biological components, maybe men are slightly more likely to have off balance brain chemistry, but there are so many other factors at play biology is the last I would look at.

Now do men commit more violence? Maybe yes, maybe no. Honestly the data is so poorly obtained and analyzed that its impossible to tell from a scientific standpoint. My guess would be no, violent acts are probably roughly equal. Studies that try to eliminated our gender biases have shown that domestic violence is actually roughly equal between men and women (or at very least much closer than feminist studies would have us believe). Tests done show that if a man does action x and a woman does action x people (both genders) are more likely to consider the man's action violent and the woman's not, even though they're the same action. Anecdotally speaking if you apply the same metrics of 'violent' to people you know and things you've seen in your own life, we find about the same ratio for men and women.

Why then, do we conclude that men are more violent? Well for one as mentioned we don't apply the same metrics for both sexes. Say a man stops to read a woman's shirt, she gets mad at the 'creep' for staring at her and slaps him. No action is taken against the woman, she is not considered violent, the male is considered the 'perpetrator', and she and society go on about how bad men are. Swap the genders and a man slaps a woman for looking at him and not only is he quite likely jumped by bystanders, he is arrested, added to the violent statistics, and she and society go on about how bad men are. Compound on the already biased statistics crimes where the perpetrator isn't immediately known (such as solving a murder) and men are much more likely to be suspected than a woman, if facing trial men are more likely to be convicted, and if convicted men are more likely to spend longer in prison which for a number of reasons exponentially increases your chances of going back to prison for violent charges after you are released.

I could go on a bit longer and add that men are more likely to take direct actions and women to take indirect actions, translating to violence men killing with a weapon and women killing with poison, etc. but this post is already quite long winded and taken me longer than I intended so I think I'll leave it here.

SecondEldenLord · 2022-06-10T19:04:55+00:00

Agression is always useful when needed. Like you said, you need it in wars, hard labour jobs, in the police force and so on. Wihtout this ahhression we wouldn't be able to protect our women now would we? And besides, why do you think women prefer big strong men? It is not just their physique , it is also the illusion that they can be aggressive and can afford to be aggressive.

craite · 2022-06-12T00:56:14+00:00

Higher testosterone levels may contribute to male violence to some degree, but I think other factors probably play a bigger role. What's interesting about this debate is how differently people approach it when the same issue is brought up in the context of race instead of gender. It's absolutely not ok to blame the fact that black people on average commit more crime on some inherent part of their "blackness", or to paint white people as victims of black crime. On the contrary the fact that crime is a bigger issue among black people is rather perceived as a symptom of being a marginalized and discriminated group, the cause is usually presumed to lie in socioeconomic issues that disproportionally affect black people compared to white or asian people. I think the same approach would also be much more appropriate in regards to gender. The fact that men are more likely to resort to violence and crime is a glaring sign that society fails them in some ways it does not with women. Someone who grows up in a healthy environment and a supporting community wouldn't resort to crime. I think the empathy gap and the higher social expectations on men to be financially successful, able to provide for others and emotionally strong in order not to be seen as unworthy, unattractive losers could play into that. The ones who struggle or fail in life then are more likely to express their frustration with aggression or resort to crime than to seek help and support that women in a similar position are more likely to get.

weirdornxtlvl · 2022-06-13T18:04:31+00:00

Being a man is not a factor. Biology is not a factor. Being poor is a factor, being mentally ill is a factor, same reason why most homeless are men.

blaizken_420 · 2022-06-13T23:09:00+00:00

Who is going to stop a violent man? Another man. Because men take responsibility, clean up their acts, and more often than not use their masculinity for good.

WeEatBabies · 2022-06-10T23:46:40+00:00

Of course they do, feminist have all the violence of the state at the point of their finger.

Aka. : Violence by proxy.

So it looks like men are more violent.

stewiehockey13 · 2022-06-11T00:15:46+00:00

So what's your point? No one has anything against simple testosterone. People don't like aggression and unnecessary violence.

yamamoto____ · 2022-06-20T19:26:20+00:00

lmaooo

McKUltra22 · 2022-06-10T20:07:41+00:00

Lol. Testosterone has nothing to do with self defence. That’s cortisol and adrenaline.

Women don’t benefit from male aggression whatsoever.

mexur · 2022-06-11T03:54:39+00:00

Release all of thw men in prison

zarnonymous · 2022-06-13T05:16:04+00:00

What

MerlynTrump · 2022-06-14T15:54:20+00:00

I think part of the problem today is that people are conditioned to think "violence is bad," but violence is really a fact of life. You see this a lot in debates about gun control, where so many people just assume that guns are bad. Yet many people are alive today because they defended themself or someone else using a gun. And not just against other people, but also there's a lot of dangerous animals out in the world.

MerlynTrump · 2022-06-14T16:04:08+00:00

Your final paragraph reminds me about an experiment I once read about done by a Dutch version of "Survivor". They put all the men on one island and all the women on the other. So naturally you have disagreements about what things people should do first, but the men and women solved the problem in different ways. On the women's island the women wanted to reach consensus so they spent a whole bunch of time discussing the issue and trying to agree on what should be done first (find food, build shelter, etc). On the men's island, the situation resolved itself, the men disagreed and debated for a while, but then they went off and did their own thing, so some men fished, others gathered wood and made shelter, one guy even built a bench. Eventually the people running the show realized the women's island was woefully behind, they hadn't reached consensus, and so they sent some of the men to the women's island and some of the women to the men's island.

accidental_me · 2022-06-14T17:14:12+00:00

Testosterone makes men dominant, not violent.

Shortmenarepathetic · 2022-06-15T20:28:33+00:00

so what you're telling me is putting men in labor camps is a reasonable idea for me to have? You wouldn't be able to commit any violent crimes against anyone that matters and I would still be able to use the benefits of testosterone for my own gain. Dope

themolestedsliver · 2022-06-16T20:48:20+00:00

I'm glad we're discussing it but there's also another angle to this.

Feminists love to go on and on about how oppressed women were in history but what about men?.

As a man throughout most of history you were seen as a weapon or tool by the ruling elite comprised of men and women.

Worked the most back breaking jobs and were used as weapons when the elite had their pissing contests.

That type of historical association doesn't just magically go away. Why do you think men are so socialized to violence?

There is certainly a biological component as you mentioned but we shouldn't forget the culture as well.

Objective-Amount1379 · 2022-06-17T20:32:54+00:00

Has it occurred to you that women also work fires, are police officers, get in car accidents, respond with physical aggression and force when attacked (that last one I can vouch for personally!).

Women ALSO have testosterone in lower levels than men.

Your argument isn’t logical- testosterone is a normal hormone that gives men more physical strength than women. That’s it. Also why most men are not violent criminals despite high testosterone levels.

The most violence is seen from young (teens /twenties) men who have grown up in an environment where it’s accepted or even seen as masculine.

Males do mature mentally slightly later in age than women, that might contribute

Internal-End-9037 · 2022-12-06T21:06:07+00:00

Let's talk about how we define violent crime. We start with it still being more or less OK for female to hit males and it is not considered violent. They there is the fact emotional and verbal and psychological abuse is not considered violent... which I really disagree with considering I grew up with the horror.

Title	Lets talk about the argument "men commit more violent crime"
Author	ChadWolf98
Upvotes	114
Comments	144
Date	June 10, 2022 4:35 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/v9brae/lets_talk_about_the_argument_men_commit_more/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/lets-talk-about-the-argument-men-commit-more.1116525 https://theredarchive.com/post/1116525

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