Logic! | MensRights

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Even if true, everyone should be treated equal.

And discrimination against men both by the police, the legal system, and of course the family court system, is well established.

Just a few sources for this:

https://becauseits2015.wordpress.com/2017/01/29/justice-system-discrimination-and-the-myth-that-sexism-against-men-isnt-institutional/

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2144002

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3053803?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

https://huffpost.com/us/entry/us_8227690?test_ad=readmo_test

"Discrimination against men is 6 times higher than discrimination against minorities"

University of Michigan: Michigan Law (2012, November 16). PROF. STARR'S RESEARCH SHOWS LARGE UNEXPLAINED GENDER DISPARITIES IN FEDERAL CRIMINAL CASES. https://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinfo/features/Pages/starr_gender_disparities.aspx

Starr, S. B. (2014). Estimating gender disparities in federal criminal cases. American Law and Economics Review, 17(1), 127-159. Available at SSRN: https://ssrn.com/abstract=2144002 or http://dx.doi.org/10.2139/ssrn

Rehavi, M. M., & Starr, S. B. (2012). Racial disparity in federal criminal charging and its sentencing consequences (Working Paper No. 12-002). Ann Arbor: University of Michigan Law and Economics, Empirical Legal Studies Center. Available at SSRN: https://ssrn.com/abstract=1985377 or http://dx.doi.org/10.2139/ssrn

Police violence against men substancially worse than against minorites

https://imgur.com/a/BdBgKSU (chart by race and gender)

Women receive a broad pass when it comes to sexual assault, especially sexual assault against young children, which distorts federal reporting and statistics on the issue

Denov, M. S. (2003). The myth of innocence: Sexual scripts and the recognition of child sexual abuse by female perpetrators. Journal of Sex Research, 40(3), 303-314. Available from: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14533025

Embry, R., & Lyons Jr, P. M. (2012). Sex-based sentencing: Sentencing discrepancies between male and female sex offenders. Feminist Criminology, 7(2), 146-162. Available from: http://www.ncdsv.org/images/fc_sex-basedsentencingdiscrepanciesbetweenmaleandfemalesexoffenders_2012.pdf

Women receive a broad pass when it comes to domestic violence, distorting federal statistics, and leading to male victims being arrested instead of their abusers

Felson, R. B., & Pare, P. (2007). Does the criminal justice system treat domestic violence and sexual offenders leniently?

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The first boss would be incorruptible. Its easier and more simple than saying their price is "more than quadrillion dollars", "a fictional creature, either male or female", or something equally impossible by today methods.

For example, to bribe me, you need at least a hundred centillion dollars, a vampiress, or an elf. Things you can't get for the next century or so.

They would vet the other bosses, when it gets bigger. Same for the agents/officers.

The boss would police the group themselves. Everything is known.

[–]Arizth 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LemonCanopy 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

To add to what Arizth said, once you find the magic incorruptible human, he's going to be competing against all the corrupt people who are looking for this job.

This being the most sought after job for corrupt people, if you're in the US that'll be about 50 million people.

1% of whom will be way smarter than your incorruptible human.

So that's 500 thousand candidate more competent than your guy.

1% of whom will have been able to keep their history and background cleaner (more politically correct) than your candidate.

So that's 5000 candidates more competent and who, as far as anyone else can tell, have morals far better than your incorruptible human.

The way things work today is that it's accepted that people in these positions will be corrupt, but it is expected that they will keep things to a certain level of respectability. A ton of other corrupt people depend on that guy being not too corrupt.

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[–]srmfep3 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

Black people were enslaved, later pushed into crime centers and sometimes deliberately, and even had the FBI and CIA promote black gangs and drug use in major centers like LA (for the CIA, as related to bringing in drugs from places like Colombia and Nicaragua to help fund drug warlords and contras to fight leftist movements in those countries). That was in part because the US government, and this is documented, saw the black community as a potential threat and a group that could be influenced by leftist and black nationalist ideologies into a threat against the US ruling class. So it promoted gang violence to give a place for disenfranchised black Americans that didn't lead to that perceived threat. See eg the usage of gangs and drugs to tear apart the Black Panther Party and other revolutionary-type groups by the FBI. All of this happened relatively recently. It's related to socio-economic class, but that also includes historical slavery, segregation into local economies forced into criminality by economic pressures, and police and intelligence services deliberately sabotaging black communities. These things did not affect other racial groups in the US. You have to combine that reality with an understanding of intergenerational transmission of trauma to get a sense of how these phenomena come about, as well as how black culture is related. Race is a strong predictor in the analysis because of correlates the author didn't take into account, and that are likely impossible to accurately model using these methods.

That is congruent with the finding far into the paper that: "To this point, I have seen good evidence that black immigrants in the US experience vastly lower rates of incarceration (much closer to the white average)." That finding by itself invalidates racial explanations.

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But they're not inherently more prone to crime. So it would make sense for us to invest heavily into making sure that black neighborhoods are safe, both from other blacks and the police.

Which means, as Shapiro has mentioned, a much greater investment in security and police in black neighborhood. There's not many people getting paid 25k/year who are going to be willing to put their lives at greater risk just to make sure that the black guy who's probably a murder still feels safe, just in case he's not and was just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

But have cops earn 150k/year and add a whole team of people whose job it is to teach those cops how to keep a whole neighborhood safe without the cops themselves being part of the problem, and you'll be able to make some progress.

And yes, that would cost a fortune, but we owe it to them.

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Populations can evolve quite quickly when under sufficient selective pressure (see the Peppered Moth as just one example) and I would argue that slavery then freedom in a racist society selected for different traits. And then we have welfare which is designed to punish work with welfare cliffs and thus has given rise to multiple generations of single mothers that push away the fathers to maintain benefits and we have a lot of evidence to suggest that single mothers are a large risk factor for felons.

These periods selected for strength, then assertiveness (taking charge), then poor community bonding. What traits did being captured as slaves select for? Under this lens, black crime stats seem like a natural outcome. At what point is enough enough? Will the next stage of meddling (reparations?) simply create a preference for another kind of undesirable behavior?

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This has shown in up the academic literature for both sexual assault and domestic violence (in case you didn't know, women are just as guilty as men for both of these crimes, and some scholars have pointed at this "moral argument" as one reason why this doesn't get talked about in society).

See:

Stemple, L., Flores, A., & Meyer, I. H. (2017). Sexual victimization perpetrated by women: Federal data reveal surprising prevalence. Aggression and Violent Behavior, 34, 302-311. Available from: http://webshare.law.ucla.edu/Faculty/bibs/stemple/Stemple-SexualVictimizationPerpetratedFinal.pdf

And especially:

Kelly, Linda. (2003). Disabusing the definition of domestic abuse: How women batter men and the role of the feminist state. Florida State University Law Review. 30, 791. Available from: http://redpilluk.co.uk/How%20Women%20Batter%20Men%20and%20the%20Role%20of%20the%20Role%20of%20the%20Feminist%20State.pdf

The second study specifically argues that feminists have actively committed academic fraud in an effort to protect the reputation of women. The first one simply argues that acknowledging women as perpetrators somehow dispels myths about female weakness and inferiority, and should therefore be accepted by feminists (the authors apparently expected backlash from feminists for publishing their paper).

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[–]SharedRegime 11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (106 children) | Copy Link

Do we really need to go over the 50% violent crime rate of 13% of the population again? Theres a lot of innocent black people in prison and they should be let free, but its been given time and time and time again about Black Americans high violent crime rate which, hint hint, thats what gets hit with prison time the hardest usually. Its extremely disproportionate when it comes to percentages. The facts do say that whites are arrested more and for none violent crimes tend to commit more however a lot of those numbers cant be trusted as Hispanics are lumped in with "white" even though they are not so its more like whites and Hispanics combined are committing more. Why that happens i dont know it it kinda makes it seem like theyre trying to ignore Hispanics as a race which bothers me quite a bit. However, it makes sense that 64% (whites not including Hispanics) of the population would on average have higher numbers so why is the crime rate of only 13% (which lets be real its more like 6% as not every black person is a criminal just like not every white person is a racist) so high at the same time? It means theres more black people proportionate to the population are committing more crime then the average white person. I honestly dont really like looking at arrest numbers because arrests =/= conviction/guilty either.

If people think its racist, and heres the kicker, why arent they going into politics or these police jobs themselves and changing the system they think is so broken? Answer, because they dont want to. The police chief of texas (i think it was texas) put out a nationwide service announcement saying "we have open spots, we want you in our police force, come make our neighborhoods a safer place" and he was met with silence and "uncle tom" comments because he was black. If people are pushed enough to protest but never make any actual action to fix the thing they say is broke (while at the same time destroying their own neighborhoods) then is the problem really there or are they trying to create one?

I dont believe all black people are criminals and never will, but facts remain facts.

[–]Madock345 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Saladmitts 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (53 children) | Copy Link

So first of all, Imma use 2 sources that go hand in hand with each other that proves that it's more of a poverty issue than a race issue. https://federalsafetynet.com/us-poverty-statistics.html https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5137 It makes sense that black people would have over-represented statistics if they're over-represented in a group of people that commit more violence than most others. Then what leads it back to a racism issue is the fact that black families were put in that class of society due to share-cropping, Jim Crow laws, and whatnot. Black people were only in recentish history given the ability to gain success in this country but as evidence shows is harder than ever.

Also no, you can't just change a bad system by integrating with a bad system, that never produces change. What does produce change is people making an uproar and taking more assertive action.

Edit: Reddit Thanosed half my comment

[–]ChiefBobKelso 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Imma use 2 sources that go hand in hand with each other that proves that it's more of a poverty issue than a race issue

The link between poverty and crime is shaky at best and race is a better predictor of crime

For some short snippets:

"Across these 9 models, race was a better predictor of homicide than unemployment, poverty, and median income, in 7, or 78%, cases, and a better predictor than income inequality in 8, or 89%, cases. Thus, over 3 decades of very large data sets, race was pretty consistently a better predictor of homicide rates than economic variables were."

and

"The analysis found that state violent crime rates correlated at .81 with the percentage of the population that was Black or Hispanic, .37 with the state’s percentage of high-school drop outs, .36 with the states poverty rate, and .35 with the state’s unemployment rate."

[–]Saladmitts 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]SharedRegime 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SharedRegime 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (47 children) | Copy Link

This is juicy. Allow me to introduce myself. Im a poor boy from PG county Maryland, a ghetto at the time thats being gentrified now, ive also lived in baltimore for abit in the hood and i now currently reside in philly...wait for it...in the hood. im barely over the poverty line. Guess what? Im not a fuckin criminal. It has nothing to do with poverty and everything to do with peoples life choices that they refuse to take fuckin responsibility for because they were never taught how.

Also, im sorry, but that last part is a fucking joke. You change the system by going into it and changing it FROM THE INSIDE. You fucking duck what the hell do you think taking assertive action is? Its getting into those positions of power and making the changes yourself. Stop making excuses for the lazy and criminals.

A black man became president of the US by a fucking landslide (pro tip black people didnt get him voted in white people did) BOTH times, no competition. Nothings stopping anybody except them damn selves.

[–]Saladmitts 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

So first of all your first paragraph is an anecdotal fallacy, I wasn't using statistics as a blanket state but well as a statistic to tell you what's going on in our country. Next time please counter me with evidence that is cited instead of believing your front yard encompasses the entirety of the US. Also name me an example where a huge sudden change happened solely because of a few politicians without being influenced from public pressure. By assertive action I mean fucking shit up to tell the government that you will be heard, whether it's with words, peaceful action, or riots they tend to work, look at the women's suffrage movement. Also I hate to break it to ya but Obama came from an educated middle-class family so it doesn't fit to compare an educated financially stable family to an uneducated impoverished family.

[–]SharedRegime -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Damn reading comp is hard for you. Sudden change? nah never claimed anything to be that but change does happen when the people who want change get off their lazy asses and actually go do something about it. Protesting has proved that in modern day does fuck all of nothing. I pulled stats directly from the FBI website so idk why youre so upset lol. Anecdotal fallacy lol what a joke. I gave you my back story so you have an understanding of why my views are the way they are but i totally get why you didnt understand that by trying to use big words to sound smart when you are indeed...not. Cause you complement skipped over the "Im not a criminal" part didnt you? cause i could have easily been if it truly was a poverty thing and not a race thing but im not because i made the conscious decision not to become one. Every single person has choices they can make. If they chose to become a criminal it wasnt because they had to because of their skin or their financial situation, its because they chose to. Theres always another option. Stupid people just stop looking for options.

By assertive action I mean fucking shit up to tell the government that you will be heard,

Oh so like the BLM riots? the ones that left cities on fire that achieved literally nothing but contempt and brought out more racism against black people? Those ones? great fucking example, slow fucking clap mate stand up and take a bow you fixed everything! Cept you fucking didnt. They did nothing but as i stated cause more contempt and racism to be even more prevalent then before because guess what, racists STILL use those riots to say "see! see! we are right! theyre animals! lock them up!" thats all that happened. I love the "obama came from middle class" bits cause its like nice so because he wasnt a broke poor black dude his accomplishments dont count lol jesus christ youre all incredibly dumb.

Congrats on being a moron. You earned it.

[–]Saladmitts -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

nah never claimed anything to be that but change does happen when the people who want change get off their lazy asses and actually go do something about it.

To start this off, you see alot of times when you're impoverished most people are not educated enough to get a job that can adequately pay the bills and are usually thrusted into criminal activity because of their uneducated nature as they try to find success in another way often with organized crime or petty theft. That's a reason why impoverished people stay that way because they can't get a decent wage in this world without an education and in order to have an education you need to have a decent wage to pay for it. Then once you add crime with that aforementioned mixture they are unable to get both which traps them in a cycle where they were unable to get anywhere because of the economic class they were born in.

Protesting has proved that in modern day does fuck all of nothing.

hmm... hmmmmmmm... HMMMMMMMMM...

I pulled stats directly from the FBI website so idk why youre so upset lol.

You did and I deconstructed the stats explaining why they were the way they were. You've yet to rebut with much counter evidence against my claims

Anecdotal fallacy lol what a joke. I gave you my back story so you have an understanding of why my views are the way they are but i totally get why you didnt understand that by trying to use big words to sound smart when you are indeed...not. Cause you complement skipped over the "Im not a criminal" part didnt you? cause i could have easily been if it truly was a poverty thing and not a race thing but im not because i made the conscious decision not to become one. Every single person has choices they can make. If they chose to become a criminal it wasnt because they had to because of their skin or their financial situation, its because they chose to. Theres always another option. Stupid people just stop looking for options.

It was indeed an anecdotal fallacy as you were using your personal story as a reason why impoverished people are completely responsible for their situation. I do not want to sound condescending but the definition for an anecdotal fallacy is evidence collected in a casual or informal manner and relying heavily or entirely on personal testimony; what you describe fits that definition perfectly. With that being said this completely invalidates your argument as it is only really applicable to you in your specific situation. You didn't have to fall to a world of crime because you are lucky enough to be educated better than that and as evidenced by your willingness to spend a part of your afternoon arguing with someone on reddit you're not having to work 2 jobs or otherwise be occupied by many hardships that people lower than you have to deal with. I'm not invalidating your claim to your experiences and how that developed you but instead I use this as my argument to tell you that your experiences can not be a valid form of argument to lay judgement on a class of people.

Oh so like the BLM riots? the ones that left cities on fire that achieved literally nothing but contempt and brought out more racism against black people? Those ones? great fucking example, slow fucking clap mate stand up and take a bow you fixed everything! Cept you fucking didnt. They did nothing but as i stated cause more contempt and racism to be even more prevalent then before because guess what, racists STILL use those riots to say "see! see! we are right! theyre animals! lock them up!" thats all that happened

Well this is a scenario where you're assuming what I'm referring to which is kinda dumb, I never referred to BLM riots nor have I implied them. What I was really thinking of were more general forms of protests such as the Civil Rights movement, the Women's Suffrage movement (in fact i referenced that in my original statement), and the Anti-Vietnam Movement. Please cease trying to argue against a perceived version of my argument.

I love the "obama came from middle class" bits cause its like nice so because he wasnt a broke poor black dude his accomplishments dont count lol jesus christ youre all incredibly dumb

The original argument was about impoverished people's ability to rise up from poverty, you used Obama as an example of them "having no excuses" so I reminded you that using him as an example was incorrect as they're different classes of people. That's like me telling you that you have no excuse from being just above the poverty line because Bill Gates is Rich, there's no real connection.

Congrats on being a moron. You earned it.

Why thank you, I feel compelled to return the favor. You're an extremely incompetent debater who uses mainly misperceived anecdotes to justify blaming an entire class for something they had no control of. I do hope your counter argument is better than your previous ones.

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Telegramgate

Telegramgate, also known as Chatgate or RickyLeaks, was a political scandal involving Ricardo Rosselló, then Governor of Puerto Rico, which began on July 8, 2019, with the leaking of hundreds of pages of a group chat on the messaging application Telegram between Rosselló and past and current members of his staff. The messages were considered vulgar, racist, and homophobic toward several individuals and groups, and discussed how they would use the media to target potential political opponents. The leak came in the midst of allegations by former Secretary of Treasury of Puerto Rico, Raúl Maldonado Gautier, that his department boasted an "institutional mafia" that Rosselló was involved in. The leaks came a year after a previous scandal, dubbed WhatsApp Gate, involving other members of Rosselló's cabinet.Mass protests arose, reaching up to 1,000,000 people at a single event on July 17.

2019 Hong Kong protests

The 2019 Hong Kong protests, also known as the Anti-Extradition Law Amendment Bill (or Anti-ELAB) movement, are an ongoing series of demonstrations in Hong Kong SAR which were triggered by the introduction of the Fugitive Offenders amendment bill by the Hong Kong government. If enacted, the bill would have let local authorities detain and extradite criminal fugitives who are wanted in territories with which Hong Kong does not currently have extradition agreements, including Taiwan and mainland China. This created concerns that the bill would subject Hong Kong residents and visitors to the mainland Chinese jurisdiction and legal system, undermining the region's autonomy and its civil liberties. As the protests progressed, the protesters laid out five key demands, which include investigation into alleged police misconduct and resumption of democratic reforms that were promised in the Sino-British Joint Declaration, but stagnated after the 2014 Umbrella Revolution.

March for Our Lives

The March for Our Lives (MFOL) was a student-led demonstration in support of legislation to prevent gun violence in the United States. It took place in Washington, D.C. on March 24, 2018, with over 880 sibling events throughout the United States and around the world, and was planned by Never Again MSD in collaboration with the nonprofit organization. The event followed the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting a month earlier, which was described by several media outlets as a possible tipping point for gun control legislation.Protesters urged for universal background checks on all gun sales, raising the federal age of gun ownership and possession to 21, closing of the gun show loophole, a restoration of the 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban, and a ban on the sale of high-capacity magazines and bump stocks in the United States. Turnout was estimated to be between 1.2 and 2 million people in the US, making it one of the largest protests in American history.

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im barely over the poverty line. Guess what? Im not a fuckin criminal.

I'll take "doesn't understand how statistics work for $500."

It has nothing to do with poverty and everything to do with peoples life choices that they refuse to take fuckin responsibility for because they were never taught how.

If you think poverty doesn't affect development and shape how people make life choices... You're a fuckin' retard. Now obviously it doesn't affect everyone in the same way, which is why obviously not everyone in poverty is a murderer.

When you have a societal ill, which I think we do here, at some point you have to look at greater factors than "more black people decide to be violent." Something, some effect, some catalyst, is nudging them towards that.

Nothings stopping anybody except them damn selves.

This is honestly a ridiculous assertion to make. Every business wants to pay you as little as they can, every rich person wants to pocket an extra dollar at your expense. There are literally SO MANY PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO CAN AND DO TRY TO KEEP YOU DOWN JUST SO THEY CAN HAVE AN EXTRA BUCK. Nearly every job you can find will always be about "how can we pay the least for the most work? "

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obscene border patrol Facebook group that 9000 officers (out of 20000) belonged to.

Nah that shit was fucked and i hope they get fucked for it.

So we can just ignore all police brutality against minorities.

Never claimed that but okay nice putting words in my mouth duck.

Because there's no way that this happens when there are "millions" of black officers (btw, there's only ~420,000 TOTAL police officers in U.S.).

never claimed that either but again nice putting words in my mouth ya duck.

You sound like that person that claims they aren't racist because they have a black friend

Im not racist because skin color and other physical and mental properties dont matter to me when it comes to other people. Hard concept i know you fucking racist duck.

Yall arent good at this are you?

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I do want to point out that the reverse argument is also true to an extent. Black people do actually commit more crime. Not necessarily because of a biological affinity for it, but more likely because of a cultural component. Specifically, fatherlessness.

Just as black people are not actually unfairly discriminated against one hundred percent of the time, neither are men. Men are statistically more aggressive, on average, than women. So while I know some of the imbalance is due to discrimination against black people and men, it's unclear how much of it is that, and how much of it is genetic/cultural susceptibility.

Just as the wage gap cannot be solved due to individual women's propensity to choose lower paying work, the prison gap likely can't be solved either, because of the propensity for men to act out riskier behaviors. We should still aim to clear as much bias out of the courts as possible, but there will be a point of diminishing returns long before the gap is closed.

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I actually agree with this. Men are more violent than women generally. It served a purpose historically when we look at it from an evolutionary biology perspective. Men and women performed different roles in society, and aggression served a purpose for men that it didn't in women.

I don't think it is wrong to acknowledge that one sex is more violent than the other whilst simultaneously acknowledging the hardships men face in society that aren't given significant focus because of the constant media/3rd wave feminist narrative that asserts man = bad. The truth inherent in one statement doesn't negate the truth in the other.

Its weird to me that you're getting downvoted even though many here would argue against this modern phenomenon that has people scream that men and women are the same. We aren't and your argument suggests this.

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i mean the other lady isnt wrong, i cant remember the jp quote but goes something like men and women can both be violet but if you took the top 50 most violent people most of them are men becuase men are inherently more aggressive. but with that said humans are able to break through their animalistic traits and behave civilized

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Men are more likely to be charged and if charged more likely to be charged with a more serious crime.

Let me give you a real life example, Mary Winkler

Mary Winkler shot her husband in the back with a shotgun and then fled with their children two states away.

She was not charged with murder.

She was charged with voluntary manslaughter.

She did not serve 60 years in jail.

She served 7 months....total... in jail. Im not kidding 7 MONTHS

She even got custody of the fucking kids.

In what world can you imagine me shooting my wife in the back with a shotgun, only serving 7 months, and still getting goddamn custody?

When you look up cold blooded murderers you wont find Mary Winkler but you should. Do you see how that works? When women commit a crime, even if its shooting someone in the back with a shotgun, they are almost always the victims. When a man commits a crime, even if its calling the cops to report their wife during domestic violence, they are almost always the perpetrators.

Thats what it ends up looking like. Men commit all the crimes. Because even when women shoot a man in the back with a shotgun, it just barely counts.

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What do you mean when you say aggression?

Heres what it pulls up for me:

ready or likely to attack or confront; characterized by or resulting from aggression.

or

pursuing one's aims and interests forcefully, sometimes unduly so.

Do I think men are more likely to confront someone than women? I wouldnt say that. Honestly my experience is the opposite. Women are much more likely to voice a complaint. But even here I would recognize that none of this is data.

Do I think men are more likely to pursue their aims and interests forcefully than women? I dont know that Id say that either.

But no I dont think there is merit to the numbers. I also balk at the domestic violence numbers because they were predicated on the Duluth Model belief that in any domestic violence situation the man is the aggressor (this has recently changed somewhat but you still see numbers). If the only person you arrest is the man then its little wonder that if you look up "domestic violence arrests by gender" all you pull up is men, make sense?

Its also that way with rape (still is in the UK). Rape used to be defined as something that could only happen to women (it required penetration, so for a man the only way a woman could rape him would be to stick her finger up his butt or something but if she just had sex with him without his consent then he wouldnt be counted as a victim of rape). It was defined that way in crime surveys and it was defined that way in the Uniform Crime Reporting that the justice dept uses. So when you looked up "rape victims by gender" almost all of them were women because they were the only ones who could be "raped". If you looked up "rape perpetrators by gender" youd just get men because thats the only group who could "rape". But if you asked men "how many were forced to penetrate" then you got as many men reported that this happened to them as you did women reporting they were raped. Whats the difference? Well rape gets funding and vilification and outrage and "forced to penetrate" gets none of that because its buried because no one gives a shit.

here is an example like Im talking about, look at table 2.2 Warning its a pdf!

I made a whole post a while back about rape definitions and how feminists designed the surveys to explicitly exclude male victims of rape so that the numbers looked like only women got raped and only by men.

They deliberately did that.

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I feel like we're on the verge of quibbling over the definition of "violence". Can I dodge this semantics debate by narrowing the claim to physical violence?

And, again, this fact should not be considered grounds for bigotry. The justice system should treat cases of homicide and lesser physical violence blindly. But I recognize that will be an aspirational asymptote for as long as our brains are running on unconscious firmware.

EDIT: So people on this subreddit only upvote the facts of our evolutionary heritage when it's convenient and flattering? We're prepared to accept the biological differences between men and women--except the ones that might make us look bad?

To deny the statistical patterns of aggression exhibited by men--that is a hair's breadth away from denying that there are any biological differences at all between the sexes. To most people this fact is obvious and to deny it is a sign of either craziness or ideological possession.

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Title	Logic!
Author	grasshopa
Upvotes	3803
Comments	280
Date	October 25, 2019 6:35 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/dn1pck/logic/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/logic.866225 https://theredarchive.com/post/866225

Comments

Starr, S. B. (2014). Estimating gender disparities in federal criminal cases. American Law and Economics Review, 17(1), 127-159. Available at SSRN: https://ssrn.com/abstract=2144002 or http://dx.doi.org/10.2139/ssrn

Denov, M. S. (2003). The myth of innocence: Sexual scripts and the recognition of child sexual abuse by female perpetrators. Journal of Sex Research, 40(3), 303-314. Available from: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14533025

Embry, R., & Lyons Jr, P. M. (2012). Sex-based sentencing: Sentencing discrepancies between male and female sex offenders. Feminist Criminology, 7(2), 146-162. Available from: http://www.ncdsv.org/images/fc_sex-basedsentencingdiscrepanciesbetweenmaleandfemalesexoffenders_2012.pdf

Felson, R. B., & Pare, P. (2007). Does the criminal justice system treat domestic violence and sexual offenders leniently?

Stemple, L., Flores, A., & Meyer, I. H. (2017). Sexual victimization perpetrated by women: Federal data reveal surprising prevalence. Aggression and Violent Behavior, 34, 302-311. Available from: http://webshare.law.ucla.edu/Faculty/bibs/stemple/Stemple-SexualVictimizationPerpetratedFinal.pdf