There will never be gender equality until society thinks it's worth discussing that 19 firefighters killed in the line of duty were all men

HappyGerbil88 · 2013-07-02T03:11:52+00:00

Yeah but preschool teachers get paid less than firemen. So obviously those men were just enjoying their male privilege.

Kuonji · 2013-07-02T03:08:36+00:00

I can't even think of an occupation that 19 women (and only women) would be killed in. But if it did happen, I'm sure it would be a large talking about about how women are getting the shaft when it comes to workplace safety.

Workchoices · 2013-07-02T09:45:10+00:00

The real victims here are their wives, who now have to try and raise their kids on a single income.

Ding_batman · 2013-07-02T07:36:31+00:00

Without a doubt if it were 18 male and one female firefighters that died, the headline would be something along the lines of "19 Firefighters killed, including one woman".

ceh789 · 2013-07-02T11:36:21+00:00

The problem with not highlighting the "maleness" of the victims is this: the double standard.

If 19 women were killed in any setting, the fact that the victims were all women were would not just be mentioned in the news story, it would trigger a national dialogue, wouldn't it? Not so for men.

When women choose lower-paying, much safer jobs, we are told women are discriminated against because the safer jobs they choose pay less. When men are killed in dangerous jobs, no one bothers to make a gender connection. The tragedy was "just one of those tragic things."

Article after article appear in news print and on-line about how boys are rudderless compared to their female peers, about how young men commit crimes at disproportionate rates, about a "crisis" in masculinity, and about how boys are "falling behind." Yet, when young men are bona fide heroes, it is politically incorrect even to mention, much less underscore, their gender.

The "maleness" of the victims here needs to be underscored because society can't have it both ways: society can't claim women are discriminated against and that boys are rudderless unless it honestly tells the other side of those stories.

gsettle · 2013-07-02T12:03:50+00:00

Equality is when no one gives a rats fanny if they were men, women or purple eyed Martians!

Hzle · 2013-07-02T18:33:54+00:00

There was quite a good Youtube video (I think made by a Brit) about this phenomenon where news channels will report that "firefighters/soldiers were killed" if victims of some tragedy were men, but will explicitly say "Women were killed" otherwise.

Weird policy.

Will post the video url an update here if I find it

ustael · 2013-07-02T20:47:10+00:00

One of the men was from my area. They spent more time talking about the 7 month pregnant wife he left behind rather than talking about him and his life on our local news. It is very sad that she will be without her partner. But I felt it was a dishonor to him to spend so much time on his partner in the announcement rather than talk about his other achievements as a man, firefighter, human.

Sasha_ · 2013-07-02T09:40:46+00:00

A bit OT, but I find the idea of these 'personal fire shelters' really odd and disturbing. They're not used at all in Europe and Australia, because they're not effective and it places too much reliance on an individual protective measure. Men shouldn't be in situations where there's erratic fire behaviour, they should be vehicle-based. I find the American approach to firefighting needlessly careless with mens lives.

dmb5456 · 2013-07-02T15:08:39+00:00

Now now, as a woman who thinks women are the cause of most if not all of our problems I would suggest you not play this male version of the dumb bitchy "feminist" for long. Women are the ones who play things out, don't steal that from us! ;) Just because women feel the need to point out everything wrong or unjust doesn't mean you need to get to that already dumb level. Men have every right to be pissed and every right to want to be equal in the places we sure as hell aren't. But I am not going to stand by a side that doesn't learn from the opposing side's mistakes. Just like the Xbone almost didn't learn from Playstation 3, as a fully functioning person you can't tell someone they have to deal with bullshit rules or stigmas because that is just the way it is. Solutions are simple when problems are big because the problem shouldn't be there in the first place. Being a dick is useless (and yes women we are most certainly dicks too) because it doesn't get your point across anymore then yelling and screaming does. That goes for all forms of gender whether identified or not. Man Power though! For real.

GGSkeletor · 2013-07-02T11:35:26+00:00

Of course they were men. Has anyone else here ever been involved with fire fighting before? It is a very physical job. Running with a BA on lugging a 64mm hose at high pressure in intense heat plus water hammer? Most men aren't fit enough to do that let alone women who are built smaller. When you get women involved with firefighting they normally are involved with tasks in the clean and wash down area (such as manning the pumps and assisting with dressing down). Both are key areas, but it is best to have people who are physically capable of performing all tasks.

dmb5456 · 2013-07-02T15:12:05+00:00

Why is this important?

It's important because one features article after the next bemoans the "crisis" of masculinity. Every rampage shooting by a young white male breeds a slew of articles and books talking about rudderless young men who've lost their way in the new matriarchy. But my guess is that you will see no, or very few, articles connecting the brave sacrifice of these 19 souls to their gender, even though there is an inextricable link. By nature and nurture, boys grow up in a culture of courage, sacrifice, and of risk taking for others, especially women, children, and the elderly, but it is politically incorrect to say it, or even to believe it.

Why is it important to point this out? Because our sons are being raised in a society where it is acceptable only to insist that they belong to a gender so terribly flawed that "masculinity" needs to be rebuilt. Indeed, no one should ignore the problems we've created for our sons, but damn it, masculinity doesn't need to be rebuilt, just tweaked a little here and there. We need to tell out sons that masculinity is, and should be, a force for good, and that young men like these 19 firefighters embody much of what is admirable about maleness. Our sons need to stop being told they flawed because they are boys. We owe it to them, and to our daughters, to be allowed to point out the very obvious link between these hero firefighters and their maleness.

hkwpie42 · 2013-07-02T16:20:24+00:00

Why is this surprising? It is an extremely physical job and therefore men are the ones who dominate the job. Putting women in for the sake of "equality in the workplace" could endanger peoples lives.

rusty890 · 2013-07-02T05:54:48+00:00

The fact that they were men was mentioned in the first paragraph.

metsman913 · 2013-07-02T14:28:05+00:00

Can we discuss why it matters? These guys weren't forced on the job. They weren't drafted. This was their chosen career, and it just sucks really fucking hard that they died.

rightsbot · 2013-07-02T02:40:24+00:00

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DoctorYucatan · 2013-07-02T17:09:14+00:00

Anytime anyone dies for any reason, it is wrong. No one should die like this, regardless of whatever demographic they belong to. All human life is precious.

EdgarFrogandSam · 2013-07-02T16:38:40+00:00

I think what's really important is that they were all firefighters.

Kuonji · 2013-07-02T02:53:22+00:00

In a job role dominated by men? It would be dreadfully stupid to reply.

Behaviouralgene · 2013-07-02T17:44:16+00:00

The local news station ended on what they thought would be the most tragic beat: how many of the men were married/expecting children.

MistaWesSoFresh · 2013-07-02T12:15:18+00:00

So more women should die so you can feel equal. That's sound logic right there. I need to unsubscribe from this sub. Posts like this just make us all look like a bunch of whiny bitches.

PassifloraCaerulea · 2013-07-02T03:48:09+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	There will never be gender equality until society thinks it's worth discussing that 19 firefighters killed in the line of duty were all men
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	147
Comments	123
Date	July 2, 2013 2:38 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1hgyq5/there_will_never_be_gender_equality_until_society/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/there-will-never-be-gender-equality-until-society.1169740 https://theredarchive.com/post/1169740

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