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True enough (xpost from r/funny)

[deleted]

November 16, 2012

1137 upvotes

/r/MensRights

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Post Information

Title	True enough (xpost from r/funny)
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	1137
Comments	110
Date	November 16, 2012 7:07 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/13b8ze/true_enough_xpost_from_rfunny/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/true-enough-xpost-from-rfunny.1009064 https://theredarchive.com/post/1009064

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[–][deleted] 26 points27 points28 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[+]shegorath 13 years ago [recovered] (16 children) | Copy Link

Taylor Lautner is 20. When the first twilight came out he was 16, and the second one he was 17. This is from the second movie when he was seventeen. He's the one they're going crazy over.

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He was 17 but your point is correct. And in no way shape or form am I saying that no one would care if a 40 year old man was obsessing over a 16-17 year old girl, people would be in outrage. I apologize I was ranting in a sense with the Facebook comment, you notice how on reddit there's always complaints about how people try to spread awareness to one thing or another without really doing anything about it? Kony for example. That's basically what I see happen on here and it frustrated me, so I do apologize for that, it wasn't directed at you personally. I stated that it was a character they were obsessing over because nothing will happen with only speculations. Something needs to be done, and that's why I believe we need equality. Women fought for equality, good on them that's exactly what we need, but society fucked that all up with less pay for the same work. Now we have what I call "woman entitlement," where some women (not all by any means), want things given to them, or lesser punishments, or anything else they can think of, just because she's a woman. So in order to fix this I have an idea that I've been mulling over for a while, give equality a chance to everyone. Same punishments for the same crimes, same pay for the same work, etc. and so forth. Although I doubt anything like this "dream" will happen in my lifetime due not only to our crooked legal system, or our crooked corporations, but because of societies mentality as a whole. I'm sorry if this seems to jump around a lot I do that with my thought process'. TL;DR in order to fix anything we need true equality as a human society in whole.

[–]Cookindinner 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

While I pretty much agree with your sentiment, I don't really think there is a 'crooked legal system' as much as I think people's perspectives just are so used to the women's rights movement having such legitimate points, that now, when most (but certainly not all) of the issues faced by women have been fixed, or are on their way to being fixed, people still believe women are under privileged, and men still have that advantage by default. The problem is that this isn't true, we are much closer to equality than we were back in the 60s, but many peoples attitudes to it are still the same.

So I agree with you here, and it would be great, but as far as true equality, where every person is treated completely equally, I'm not sure it will ever be possible. The most I hope for, is the legal system to treat both men and women the same for crimes committed by either, because changing the way people think is going to be almost impossible.

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Many people know it exists. There are entire communities devoted to trolling Reddit for just such content. Yet it never, ever has received the flak the male-oriented sites have.

You want to label me biased because that irritates me? Go ahead. The Twilight mom phenomenon is just another example of it; it's viewed as harmless when women are sexual predators, whether it's teachers, cougars, or creepers. I don't approve of that, and your attempt to suggest the situations are equal like you did in your original post is laughably misguided concern trolling.

You want to point out male creepers are bad and should be shamed? Go right ahead. Because everyone shames them and their subreddits get shut down while they're demonized.

"Men are terrible, ignore women being terrible!" is a really shitty way to approach any discussion in this subreddit. Especially when the men are called terrible and the women aren't.

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Here's the difference:

The whole Twilight Moms thing is an entire fangirl community of Twilight fans who are also older women. It's kind of being misconstrued here as though they call themselves Twilight Moms because they're sexually attracted to the actors in the movie. That isn't it. In fact if you checked google you'd probably find results about their fan forums much the same as you find for things like A Song of Ice and Fire or the Harry potter series.

They aren't 40 year old women pining with lustful abandon after an underage boy, they are women who for whatever reason adored the Twilight books, and that transferred to the films.

I've seen 2 different stances put forth in this thread, that either:

A. It is wrong because they are lusting after a young male actor, or

B. It is wrong because the fictional character they are lusting for is underage

To point B I must refute that as being childish and nonsensical. There is no point in fighting that battle because there is no ground to stand on and it just makes MRA's look childish, impudent, and as if we are grasping at straws to prove that things are broken.

To point A I already provided my response, this particular group of women are fangirls (albeit a bit odd) of a very simplistic version of the typical teenage girl romance story complete with prince charming. They are not a group of middle aged predators with some sort of predatory machinations relating to underage men.

Look, I'm right there with the rest of /r/MensRights in the instances where it is obviously and abundantly clear that there is a ridiculous double standard, and there are a LOT of those instances that we could better spend our time with. We should be picking our battles where there is a clear and undeniable issue, this is not one of those times.

You asked me to provide evidence that there was any kind of "club" akin to the "twilight moms" and to that I say yes, there is. There are countless fan clubs for books, movies, music, etc. This fan club is not a predatory group, is it a bit uncomfortable for the average person? Maybe. Is it predatory and morally wrong? Not really.

[–]Jazzeki 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Men can and do have the same kinds of fan clubs. Not necessarily for Twilight(though there might be, admittedly I haven't checked) but there are fan groups for other things that involve men, and they aren't reviled, shunned, and shamed.

The Twilight Moms fan club is not a club for middle aged women who want to fuck the male actors, it's a fan club for women who like the Twilight series. Just the same as any fan club.

That picture doesn't show a group of women with a sign that says "Taylor Lautner I want to fuck you" it shows women who look excited with a sign that says "Twilight Moms" because they are women who are passionate about the Twilight series, both the books and the movies.

To establish my point: Are these men being reviled, shunned, and shamed? Clearly they are Star Wars fans, but I don't see anything about people having an issue with it.

If a group of adult men wanted to be the "Twilight Dads" no one would assume they were creeps. A lot of people might question their taste in movies/books, but they wouldn't assume they were creeps.

[–]Jazzeki2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

either you are purposely distracting from the point as eithe trolling or because you have an agenda OR you really don't understand the argument.

first of those starwars fans are going into a fantasy world. star wars do not come even close to being a valid comparison. especially not when you compare people who seek out the actors because they think the charecters (and actors) are hot and they want to BE WITH them, to people who dress up as the charecters because they want to BE them.

second. while that picture doesn't show that are you really going to deny that the behaviour they showed at the time clearly indicated that? like when they admited it? or when they would seek out the male actors so they could meet with "the dreamy hunk"?

third to go back to the problem that your example is a horrible example one of the main reason it's so bad is that a good example simply do not exists. the best we can get would be 40 year olds seeking out emma wattson because herminone was such a hot and awesome charecter(or hell the ones who freely admit they just think she is hot) these people are out there. and they are reviled, shuned and shamed.

you are overlooking how these women acted on purpose i'd assume. no man would ever get away with such behaviour.

[–]Thecrumblingcookie1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You just said multiple times that they

would seek out the male actors so they could meet with "the dreamy hunk"?

Care to source that, because I'm not seeing anywhere that they were stalking the male actors.

I'm not missing their behavior, look it up. It is a fan group that has been around since 2007. Until you provide me with an article stating that these Twilight Moms were stalking the male actors as you purport then I am going to continue to disagree.

Again, these women weren't "seeking out" actors, so why would we need 40 year old men to be "seeking out" female actors? They're at a movie launch/screening, that isn't seeking out the actors.

either you are purposely distracting from the point as eithe trolling or because you have an agenda OR you really don't understand the argument.

Wrong. You continually state that they are doing something that is clearly predatory. You have insisted they are "seeking out" the actors. I have stated time and again that these women are a part of a fan club. It's a community based thing where these women can drone on about their love of Twilight and the cheesy love story it contains.

A group of men sitting outside a movie theater dressed as Star Wars characters prior to the release of Star Wars movies wouldn't be reviled, people camping out prior to the release of the Avengers or Harry Potter were not shunned, why should women freaking out at the release of Twilight be shamed?

You seem to be under the impression that these women came together because of the movies and their desire for the male actors, when they came together for and are showing support for the entirety of the Twilight Franchise. They read the books and think they're great and they see the movies and swoon over how "old fashioned and charming Edward is."

That is NOT the same as a group of 40 year old women forming a group because they want to fuck the actors.

Where is the disconnect in that for you?

[–]Jazzeki2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

because I'm not seeing anywhere that they were stalking the male actors.

well i didn't use the word stalking now did i?

they did however often follow them around to meet them like the fan girls they were to get close to them. and again i'm not saying this not okay. but secutiry would be all over the 40 year old guys who was everywhere emma wattson faced the public.

You continually state that they are doing something that is clearly predatory

i have naver made such claim. i described a behaviour they did have you decided it was predatory.

You have insisted they are "seeking out" the actors.

well they did. maybe not in the obssesive "hide in the locker"-way but we don't need extremes for it to be true.

You seem to be under the impression that these women came together because of the movies and their desire for the male actors, when they came together for and are showing support for the entirety of the Twilight Franchise

i'm sorry i can't even get over the idea you think there's more than that to said franchise but go on.

They read the books and think they're great and they see the movies and swoon over how "old fashioned and charming Edward is."

again: 40 year old dude does the same about the hermione charecter and wants to meet emma wattson = creep

That is NOT the same as a group of 40 year old women forming a group because they want to fuck the actors.

i never claimed it was. but it did happen to be a quite common wish in the group.

i still don't hold that against them.

Where is the disconnect in that for you?

i'd guess somewhere arounf the same point where you disconected from reality and don't understand what my argument is but please go on this is quite entertaining by now. i'm especially laughing at how you think you need to stand up for these women despite me saying their behaviour is perfectly fine.

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Implying that you can greentext on Reddit.

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