Aren't the alpha/beta definitions too narrow?

betterdeadthanbeta · 2016-05-29T22:19:14+00:00

Stark dichotomies are important when your goal is to motivate and persuade rather than inform. Which of these two speeches is going to help you get your ass in gear when you need to go out and perform?

"There are only two types of men, those who fight and live, and the defeated!"

Or

"Well like... it's complicated, because some dudes flee from battle but i guess they could start a new life somewhere and be known as courageous again in time. Hey, maybe the Visigoths will go easy on our city? Sure there will be some rape and all, but it would be inaccurate and an oversimplification to say that the entire city will be raped. Soldiering is important, but we should all take a moment to balance our individual needs and wants against the safety of the whole..." etc, etc.

You need to just lay out two options, make your intended audience loathe the first option and crave the second, then present a plan to get there. Trying to convey an entire spectrum of complexity is counterproductive when you are trying to get someone to get up and move, NOW.

stats135 · 2016-05-29T21:35:06+00:00

This topic of discussing what an alpha and beta is has been discussed many times before, so I'm going to use the same response.

You are right in that the term "alpha" by its very roots in biology means the individual with preferential access to sex and resources.

But I would like to make one more thing clear, "alpha" can be used to describe a person as well as an action. A graduate from a top university with a STEM degree decides to buy a lottery ticket, is a smart person that made a stupid decision. A 5 year old who invested his saving in stocks is a stupid person that made a smart decision. A 5 year old who buy raffle tickets would be straight up stupid.

In the same light, Someone who has preferential access to sex and resources but decides to be nice and supplement women with time, money, and commitment is an alpha that made a beta decision. Someone without preferential access to sex an resources but works out, advances his career, and self-improves is a beta that makes an alpha decision, or as you described, basically a "high beta". And of course, someone without preferential access and decides that being a nice guy to women is simply straight up beta.

InBaggingArea · 2016-05-29T20:59:39+00:00

Well, they are meant to be schematic, and therefore not to include everything, and they are empty labels waiting for you to fill.

But the real problem is the huge naturalistic fallacy sitting at the heart of the whole idea. If our nature determines what we are, and can't be overcome, then what is the point in trying to overcome it. If it doesn't, then we can remake ourselves, including the patterns and norms of our reproductive behavior and institutions within the constraints nature allows.

SipsSparklingWater · 2016-05-30T01:19:28+00:00

When posting on here people should first define what they think an "Alpha" or "Beta" male is or all use the definitions from the Terms and Acronym sections to avoid confusion.

BluePillsLament · 2016-05-30T02:56:22+00:00

In my time in this community, I have come to the realization that almost no one has any idea what they mean because the term(s) have been overly narrowed by systemizing oriented people mostly for the purposes of ingratiating themselves towards others they wish to impress, and then re-expanded by people who want to consider the terms generally for the purposes of conversation, and then pushed back again by systemizers who think the previous people are losers simply trying to benefit from redefining themselves as something they arent, which is a scapegoat argument in my opinion.

A beta is a weak, often supplicative, generally average provider type man.
An alpha is a socially successful, attractive, generally dominant man, who tends to lead others socially.

That is all these two words are required to mean, and all they should mean to have any sensible conversation on the matter.

cruelironage · 2016-05-30T15:11:53+00:00

What is alpha and what is beta is an argument that has been going on in trp for a long time. I used to think that effectively being selfish was alpha, based on my own poor and evolving understanding of my relationships with girls. The rational male blog defines alpha as being your own central point of origin and validating your emotions from within. I think that this is the definition that should be used as by using this definition building alpha traits will also help you to strengthen your frame, become more stoic, set good boundaries, be honest with yourself, be present in the moment, have confidence in yourself, and many other very healthy things. Just because you are your own mental point of origin doesn't mean you are a social butterfly.

Alpha = being your own mental point of origin. Validating yourself.

Beta = your mental origin begins through your perception of other people in their actions/thoughts/feelings towards you. Depending on others to validate you.

The words are always slowly evolving and simply our attempts to create some language so we can discuss relationships and the actions therein.

lady_baker · 2016-05-29T21:11:37+00:00

http://alphagameplan.blogspot.com/2011/03/socio-sexual-hierarchy.html

Above is Vox Day's hierarchy. Yes, alpha and beta are not enough categories and I detest the way TRP says "beta" as shorthand for weak/cuck/anything negative.

DaphneDK · 2016-05-30T01:17:05+00:00

Alpha is situational. The guy who's good at his trade is alpha at work, the gym-rat is alpha at the gym, the good sailor is alpha at the weekend outing, etc. Also all alphas have beta moments, and most betas have moments of alpha.

topapito · 2016-05-30T06:57:47+00:00

Alphabeta alphabet soup.

Half the people on redpill have no idea what it means to be beta except for what they are told by the redpill leaders. Having said that, I have had several wonderful conversations with several of the more knowledgeable folks there and have been duly impressed.

But what I am reading here has very little to do with truth. Alpha and beta is defined historically, by being a leader or a follower. And historically speaking, has nothing to do with how may times you get laid in a week or whether women are willing to pay for it you're so hot.

Alphas are leaders, they lead. They are looked up to by everyone in the pack, group, area, territory. Nuff said. Now, alphas have always and will always have more sex than betas, but specifically because they are in a leader's position, a position of power. Betas are the guys nodding yes to the suggestions of the alphas or washing our cars, or fixing our houses for us so they can see the girls that walk out of our rooms in the mornings.

Alphas, leaders, are not all narcissistic assholes who hate women and decide that they need to be punished for having clits. A successful, true alpha is more often than not known for caring about the people in his pack. A fatherly, head of state figure that ensures his pride is taken care of and everyone in it is safe and fed.

There is no surefire way to define people individually, but leaders, true leaders are respected and loved by their followers and that is what makes an alpha, an alpha.

Archwinger · 2016-05-30T16:31:34+00:00

Alpha and beta are just shorthand for use on the internet, because "Shit that is sexually attractive to most women" takes too damn long to type.

People need to stop getting hung up on trying to define terns and discuss the bigger picture. Sexual strategy. That's really all that TRP is about. How to generate sexual attraction in most women and get laid.

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TheKickboxingGuy · 2016-05-29T21:02:42+00:00

Alpha and Beta describe actions, not people. Success with women is a by-product of alpha qualities, otherwise pity sex or a white loser getting laid by desperate women in the Philippines would be alpha too.

BillClam · 2016-05-30T02:52:18+00:00

The definitions are too narrow, but I believe the purpose of them is along the lines of TRP's extensive use of hyperbole and using sharp dichotomy in order to establish "goals". Of course no simple definitions fit any one person, the internet wants you to forget the color "grey".

nope_nic_tesla · 2016-05-30T09:14:54+00:00

The definitions are completely contrived in the first place, trying to make sensible definitions is a futile endeavor

alreadyredschool · 2016-05-30T11:41:30+00:00

Of course TRP has other funny labels like sigma, omega and whatever else, but in the end it seems like a shallow way to categorize people.

Exactly, that's why it categorizes behaviors and traits.

Apexk9 · 2016-05-29T20:59:16+00:00

Alpha is someone who does what he wants regardless of others opinions or social pressure. A beta submits to the will of others.

Example most Asian male child is a beta.

648262 · 2016-05-29T21:01:12+00:00

Getting to the top of the social hierarchy requires some confidence, but good looks and social tact help as well.

danxmason · 2016-05-29T22:32:01+00:00

It is too narrow, but to categorize everyone accurately on the scale (alpha pos, alpha nega, beta pos, beta neg, gamma pos, gamma neg, delta pos, delta neg, omega pos, omega neg) requires far too much analysis to accurately label, as well as the fact that on the matrix of traits, people will fall into multiple categories. So we say alpha to describe alphas or those with alpha traits (dominance, leadership, mastery, strength) and beta to describe everyone else.

Denswend · 2016-05-30T00:50:05+00:00

RP worldview is kinda simple :

1) Women pursue dual mating strategy.

2) Dual mating strategy is Alpha and Beta dichotomy.

3) Alpha is anyone women want to have sex with or any action/behaviour/personality/fill-in-blank that makes a woman want to have sex with a person exhibiting action/behaviour/personality/etc.

4) Beta is any thing that makes a woman put you in a "provider" role and any sex resulting from there is "duty sex", or in other words, sex has role of a transaction.

It's that simple. Alpha = women want sex. Beta = women don't want sex. That's that. While additional readings into this are welcome they're not oft productive (alpha must mean big stronk dominant Conan male, hurr durr).

Classification into "omega", "alpha", "beta" are silly things. Alpha can be anything that makes a woman want to have sex with your without it being of transactionary value.

Sunhappy_DC · 2016-05-30T01:36:02+00:00

No.

This is a matter of 1) losers trying to expand the definition of alpha so that they feel like the term and its traits apply to them -- without them having to do any work and 2) losers redefining beta to mean something negative because it obviously implies being something other than alpha.

Guys, get over yourselves. You can't be objectivists in all things but yourself. Not everyone is going to be the alpha. Most women want a beta or higher beta --a masculine man that doesn't act like a pussy bitch cuz he finally scored a LTR/wife -- and have for most of humanity.

The terms are what they are. Only SJWs change long standing definitions to fit their agendas. Not cute, boo boo.

Entropy-7 · 2016-05-30T07:19:43+00:00

You realize that there are several people out there who are not caring and might have dominant personalities but are still not getting laid, right?

A frustrated beta who acts out might behave in a domineering manner, but they do not have a dominant personality. They are likely preying upon or bullying even weaker beta males because they aren't taken seriously neither by women nor by men in general.

I've known confident people who were not popular with women.

Naked confidence with nothing more is the sign of a poser who is laughed at by men and women. Actually having something to be confident about (something that other people actually care about) is an alpha trait but without a combination of looks and charisma to be a leader of men and lover of women, it makes you at best a high beta.

TheRealMewt · 2016-05-30T11:31:53+00:00

Maybe the definitions are so narrow because there is no need to flesh them out further...

Title	Aren't the alpha/beta definitions too narrow?
Author	ThatGreekLady
Upvotes	8
Comments	96
Date	May 29, 2016 8:51 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/4lm6mr/arent_the_alphabeta_definitions_too_narrow/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/arent-the-alphabeta-definitions-too-narrow.274503 https://theredarchive.com/post/274503

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