CMV: Creep Shaming does not affect men.

cxj · 2017-07-14T00:11:26+00:00

Creep shaming can negatively affect men with poor social skills who are not even approaching women. I brought a friend to a party that was outside an apt complex on an open balcony, it was dark and he was just standing by himself smoking cigarettes and enjoying the view.

"Who's the cancer man?!" (X files reference)

"Omg who let that creep in"

He did not approach women. He did not "fail to take no for an answer." He barely talked to anyone because of social anxiety. It made some people, all of them girls, deeply uncomfortable.

He's not terribly unattractive physically, aside from being fat. But there were several other fat people there who were not called creeps.

Yes, there are guys who pro actively do things making girls uncomfortable, but this is by no means always the case and it can really hurt certain guys chances at even having friends. Shits fucked up yo

pinkgoldrose · 2017-07-14T00:30:57+00:00

Men rights activists claim that a woman can call any man a creep, regardless of whether or not they are being creepy, and ruin his reputation.

This description reminds me of slut shaming. You could replace men with women and creepy with slut, and the sentence would hold. I think some women are definitely too quick to use the creep label, just like some people are too quick to use the slut label.

Maybe what makes them different is the notion of consent.

Creep shaming: "stop coming onto me or other non-consenting women"

Slut shaming: "stop having sex with other consenting adults"

KrispyMcSockington · 2017-07-14T04:14:45+00:00

Women do not have an incentive to engage in creep shaming.

They do. To keep the unattractive men away. Women enjoy fucking and dating attractive men. A short, pimply, overweight, awkward guy is going to be called creepy first before a tall, well built, socially adept one.

It is also a way for them to avoid being called shallow, while simultaneously shitting on men for having standards, which are still lower than women's.

If a woman calls a man a creep, it's not because he's doing something that she doesn't want from him, it's that after receiving clear communication that what he's doing isn't accepted, he refuses to cooperate, thus violating a social norm that leave the woman feeling in danger.

Then why not say that? Calling him creepy is not "clear communication". The language associated with being creepy is incredibly close to sexual harassment and using it in a subjective way gives people the impression a potential rapist is hanging about. If he is harassing her, she can tell him to fuck off, call the cops, call security, tell the boss/HR or even call her boyfriend. Damaging his reputation because he had the audacity to desire sex while being unattractive is not okay. There was a guy who posted on here a while ago who said his reputation was destroyed by a girl who spread gossip and called him a creep. Why should he suffer social isolation because he didn't meet her standards? No man can know until he approaches what she's into. We would all love the ugly people to vanish but that's not how life works.

So a guy that keeps hitting on a girl even when she politely declines is creepy for that reason. However, the man has to bring this on himself by continuing to be persistent, regardless of what he looks like.

This is harassment. Often when men are called creeps it's because they're not attractive enough and women don't want to seem shallow. Sure, an unattractive man can harass people, but creep shaming, much like slut shaming, requires some effort on someone's part to hurt someone else's reputation or to cause them some humiliation. We overlook what women do because we assume it is just and deserved when a guy is trying to get her attention and she doesn't like it.

Creep shaming is not going to happen to a guy that is shy or doesn't talk much, it will only happen to guys who are very aggressive in pursuing women.

So only the nice, quiet, respectful guys won't suffer? He better be hot then. I don't think you understand how it works. This is like saying "slut shaming won't happen to quiet, shy women. Only women who are aggressive in pursuing men." I am sure this happens, this has not stopped anyone from spreading rumours, gossip and lies (of which women tend to be more guilty of). If a sexually aggressive women is not supposed to be slut shamed in a modern, western society, then creep shaming a sexually aggressive man should not be tolerated either.

There is a reason they say it's not creepy if he's hot. One dude posed as a male model and said some shit to women that would get him called creepy if he was unattractive. He also got a lot more matches on Tinder: http://thoughtcatalog.com/clint-conway/2017/03/this-guy-made-a-fake-tinder-profile-to-prove-that-girls-never-think-hot-dudes-are-creepy/

Women make excuses for hot guys and rules for the rest.

literalsunworshipper · 2017-07-14T04:47:04+00:00

I can't speak for all men, but it has a borderline irrational effect on me. The thought of being labeled a creep really gets to me. It's one of the biggest reasons I'm single.

alreadyredschool · 2017-07-13T23:42:09+00:00

Creep shaming is not going to happen to a guy that is shy or doesn't talk much, it will only happen to guys who are very aggressive in pursuing women.

Creep shaming makes men non aggressive pussies who don't purse women.

Unabummer80 · 2017-07-13T23:30:51+00:00

Last night I was out with some female colleagues who, misreading drastically that I was on 'their side', were indulging in calling quite a few of my male colleagues creeps for no real discernable reason. When I get the news back about it to my colleagues, they might be in some trouble.

Creep shaming is not going to happen to a guy that is shy or doesn't talk much, it will only happen to guys who are very aggressive in pursuing women.

The thing is, lots of women have very poor judgement. You have to put your trust that women can judge accurately when this is happening. Unfortunately, lots of them get it completely wrong.

StayAtHomeChad · 2017-07-13T23:28:01+00:00

Well, it's more than that. People don't really care about other people as much as they always think they do. Ooh noes, a girl said I'm creepy and told her friends, game over.

Ultramegasaurus · 2017-07-14T04:23:43+00:00

So what you're basically saying is that women can never be vile and would never ever creep-shame someone for no reason.

You're ODing on that Women are Wonderful effect man.

rreliable · 2017-07-14T11:01:59+00:00

So is Thom Yorke not a man? Is his greatest hit a celebration of the positive effect of being considered a creep?

How many male suicide notes specifically referencing the creep phenomenon would it take before you concede that some men are very much affected by it?

Also, why does it exist as the most popular man-shaming tactic if it's ineffective?

blackedoutfast · 2017-07-14T14:41:11+00:00

you are completely wrong. creepy status has very little to do with behavior and almost everything to do with attractiveness.

Creep shaming is not going to happen to a guy that is shy or doesn't talk much,

no true. i've seen it happen many times. guys who are not doing anything wrong and are being 100% non-aggressive and polite get called creepy.

it will only happen to guys who are very aggressive in pursuing women.

only if the women they are pursuing think they are unattractive. if a woman thinks you are hot, you get an alpha pass and can get away with anything.

dakru · 2017-07-13T23:42:29+00:00

CMV: Creep Shaming does not affect men.

Here's a man saying in the clearest terms possible that it does affect him. I don't think he's alone.

The "creep-shaming" is why I am terrified to approach a woman. I don't want to deal with that. [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomen/comments/19u81s/hey_ladies_whats_your_opinion_on_creep_shaming/c8rw6hv/

Men rights activists claim that a woman can call any man a creep, regardless of whether or not they are being creepy, and ruin his reputation.

This sounds like an exaggeration of what they say. I don't think any of them would claim that a woman can call Brad Pitt a creep and ruin his reputation. It works a lot better on low status guys.

Women do not have an incentive to engage in creep shaming. Women aren't seeking to constantly police men's actions and ruin their reputation at a whim.

Most women would prefer it if awkward or unattractive men didn't show them attention, so that's an incentive. But I don't think it's necessarily (or even mostly) done with the explicit intent of "policing" actions or ruining reputations. Mostly I think it's done because (1) they perceive attention from awkward or unattractive men as being threatening (or at least it makes them uneasy / feel gross), (2) they feel insulted that he thought she was in his league, (3) they don't realize how much weight the term holds and they just want to blow off steam about an encounter they didn't want to have, or (4) of course there are many legitimately threatening guys out there (not taking no for an answer, etc.).

If a woman calls a man a creep, it's not because he's doing something that she doesn't want from him, it's that after receiving clear communication that what he's doing isn't accepted, he refuses to cooperate, thus violating a social norm that leave the woman feeling in danger.

Really, you think that "clear communication" of disinterest is necessarily present?

HossMcDank · 2017-07-14T05:23:35+00:00

Your viewpoint is based in theory and an ideal world, rather than how things happen IRL when accounting for human error or malice.

For example, there are actual socialists in the world. However, we recognize that someone on Fox News who calls everyone they don't agree with a socialist is using the term incorrectly. Why do you think women are incapable of doing this with the word "creep"? The answer is probably the "women are wonderful effect".

Of course MRAs/TRPers are mistaken when they argue that it's analogous to slut shaming, or that it's primarily used against men who have done nothing wrong, but it's still a cause for concern and can be very damaging to a man's social standing.

purplenelly · 2017-07-14T00:41:17+00:00

Yesterday on a thread on ask reddit called "What aspect of a woman's life are most men unaware of?" there was this comment with 600 upvotes:

I was going out for the evening with my SO, but before leaving the house, we took our dogs for a walk. He fell behind because the dog he was walking has issues, so I went ahead with our other dog. A guy in a truck sat at a stop sign for a solid 2 minutes staring at me, not moving. It was that feeling in your stomach where fight or flight is right around the corner. When my SO came and walked up to me and started talking to me, I was shaking. The guy in the truck peeled out and sped off all because he saw that I wasn't alone and the fact that it was a man with me. If I had another woman with me, I don't think the guy would have left and I don't know what would have happened. This shit is terrifying.

I think this is an example of a woman creep shaming a guy, lending him intentions, projecting what "could have happened". Imagine if this is what women think at the sight of man.

I'm a feminist, but I believe in men's rights to exist and go out alone in their cars. I also believe in presumption of innocence.

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lbspredh · 2017-07-14T12:48:12+00:00

Yeah but that's bullshit isn't it? The term ends up being used at anyone they dont like the look of

DebatesNotBans · 2017-07-15T14:48:08+00:00

Women do not have an incentive to engage in creep shaming

Women can raise their own ego by shitting on inferior people (in this case, men). Women also feel disgusted by sub-8 men interacting with them, so they need a way to tell them to fuck off, but that's socially acceptable. They cant just go "Ewww you're too ugly for me loozer!", so they go "This guy is being creepy".

ScarletNumbers · 2017-07-16T01:40:43+00:00

clear communication

women are generally poor at this

woman feeling in danger

this is such a nonsense excuse

Title	CMV: Creep Shaming does not affect men.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	2
Comments	90
Date	July 13, 2017 11:24 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/6n5dco/cmv_creep_shaming_does_not_affect_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-creep-shaming-does-not-affect-men.267000 https://theredarchive.com/post/267000

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