Issues with TRP

MorpheusGodOfDreams · 2017-02-12T23:14:07+00:00

sounds like an overall weak understanding of TRP. Further, your inability to provide concise summaries of your points is a major weakness.

The first issue I have with the TRP community is that it's very cultish.

Nope, this has been discussed to death. Cults require things from its members, TRP is just info that you can take or leave, like a buffet.

The fallacy of "beta" and "alpha" and "Chad Thundercock".

alpha and beta are behavior patterns. That is why TRP explains that in a LTR, a man should inject a bit of beta, like you did. But for short term initial attraction, a man should go nearly 100% alpha.

Chad Thundercock.

an intentional laughable term to describe an ideal that forces a man to stay on his toes and never stop improving himself. I personally know several men who share many traits with Chad, and they do very well in dating with minimal effort.

TRP dehumanises women.

100% intentional to force the pussy off of the pedestal. Western culture has a deeply ingrained "Women are Wonderful" effect that is the ultimate source of most men's unrealistic understanding of women. This must be forcefully shattered before any progress is made, so the sub focuses on this anger phase as an intro. Final level of TRP is the understanding that men and women are complimentary, like Yin and Yang.

Hypergamy.

basic concept that sperm is cheap and eggs are expensive, so men want the most bang for their buck and women want the opposite. Women want quality men and have higher standards than men do. That is it. Saying "nuh, uh, men do it too!" is ignoring many of the fundamental difference between the sexes. This seems to be your biggest problem. The basic heart of TRP is that MEN AND WOMEN ARE DIFFERENT. Admit this, then we can talk specifics.

AWALT. No, not all women are like that.

lol. AWALT was literally coined to shut down the argument that "not all women are like that." Such an attack is simply stating that TRP men are weak hunters that go after weak prey, and that a "strong independent woman like me" would not fall for that. All women are women, they have the same attraction cues and react similarly around the world. AWALT is a heuristic that encapsulates all neurotypical women.

TRP is an angry, bitter community

100% intentional. Anger phase is an important step for men who have failed in relationships for a long time and are forced to reexamine everything that they have been lied to about. Once the anger is let out in a healthy way, men can focus on improvement until they can more reliably get sex, and once they get to this point they leave the sub.

Many TRPers like a certain type of girl.

All men like attractive women with an agreeable personality. Again, bad girls and good girls all have the same attraction cues (tall, athletic, good social skills, has money, etc). One is just more willing to jump into bed. TRP recognizes that women want investment before sex while men want sex before investment, so it encourages men to go after what you call "bad girls." Seems like you are shaming women here for their actions. How judgmental!

On base of my sexuality I owned her body, but on base of my love(and admiration) for her, my patience and care for her I owned her soul.

good for you, you keep doing what works for you. If you don't need TRP, then you don't need TRP.

Overall you seem like a naive guy who still has feelings for his ex and needs to white knight on TRP because you don't understand the purpose.

Electra_Cute · 2017-02-12T19:03:44+00:00

You completely misunderstand what RP is to start. Would it be a waste of my time to give you a lesson? I am not going to take the time to read your entire wall of mostly useless text, so correct me if I am missing anything.

Hypergamy

I will explain what they mean by Hypergamy, as I understand it now.

Let us pretend there is a marriage between Jane and John. They are perfectly happy for the first 5 years. After 5 years Jane loses attraction to John and there marriage is in the dumps. Jane will not outright leave John, but then let us pretend that there is another man who shows interest in Jane who is better than John. Jane in this situation will most likely leave John for the new better male. As long as Jane is happy with John, she will not leave the marriage. Jane just "branch swinged". In the reversed situation, John would be more likely to cheat, instead of finding another woman.

Chad Thundercock

When I was 15 years old, there was a male who was a senior in my highschool. He was handsome, outgoing, played on two different sports teams, ambitious and very mature for his age. A man like that has no shortage of options for casual sex and no shortage of options for dating. This is what is meant by Chad Thundercock.

AWALT

It is a pragmatic approach. It is an observation that in specific situations a female will make a specific choice. It is based on the nature of humans doing what is most beneficial to them.

TRP is an angry, bitter community

Give me one good logical reason why a happy and satisfied man would go onto a subreddit for sexual advice. Of course they are angry and bitter.

TRP dehumanises women

Your issue is that you are approaching RP by judging it's merits based on the user base and demographic of the subreddit or other forums. You dislike the users, not RP itself. This is an attack on the users, which I can agree with are vile. I am not even RP myself and I see this phenomenon everywhere.

I am happy to answer any questions you have about RP.

prodigy2throw · Sun Feb 12 21:10:47 2017 UTC

TL;DR: TRP sounds icky

darksoldierk · 2017-02-12T22:38:23+00:00

They don't like debates because when it comes to this topic, debates come from emotions. The fact of the matter is, RP's know that a lot of what TRP discusses isn't moral, but the reason they don't allow debating is because making it moral is a loss for men. It's like, everyone knows that it's unfair and immoral that women get custody 80% of the time in cases of divorce, but the law refuses to adjust it, it refuses to fix it, it refuses to even discuss it. Why? Because making it moral would mean a loss for women, and in our world, women aren't allowed to lose.

Regarding chad thundercock, well, he's the guy that can easily get women, keep women while also, not needing women. He's the guy that can get what he wants from women without giving up what he doesn't want to give up. He is an ideal. It isn't different than our day to day. We all have an ideal image of who we want to be in our minds, and when we are put in situations, we think "what would our ideal self do" and we do that. If we do something we regret, we regret it because we realise that our "ideal self" wouldn't have done that. Chad isn't the ideal self, he's the ideal guy in the relationship world.

TRP dehumanizing women is absolutely correct, but the fact is, the entire world dehumanizes women and women are happy about that when it benefits them. If women are willing to dehumanize themselves, why aren't men allowed to dehumanize them? Let me give you an example? What was it, "for exact same crime, women get less time in prison than men". How is that not dehumanizing to women? How is that not implying that women are less capable of understanding the consequences of their actions than men. Treating women like they are the oldest teenager in the house is the only way to cope with the entitlements that women have these days. Entitlements that women force men to pay for. Everything from maternity leave which ends up in male co-workers taking on higher workloads to cover her time off, to physical endurance tests which are more lenient for women than men in order to make those professions more equal, leniency that costs men when they need something done that couldn't be done by their female partner but would have been able to get done by a male partner.

Hypergamy in men is considered disgusting. A man trading his wife for a younger model is an immoral pig. A woman trading her husband for someone who makes more is "her right".

TRP is a place for men to post this sort of stuff. Who are you going to talk to when your wife cheats on you, divorces you, takes your children, takes your money and leaves you living in basement apartment with barely enough monthly income to cover the rent, meanwhile she goes off on vacations every year and lives in a $1M home. I'm not the guy that went through that but a friend of mine went through exactly that. Who is he going to talk to? A psychologist? The psychologist will just tell him he's a man and it's his job to be a slave to women (in different phrasing throughout weeks if not months to milk the $200/hour sessions). Post it on TRP, young men can read it if they want, they can understand the risks of marriage and family in this day and age and how women are given the legal support to treat men like scum the second the man says "I DO".

Men should understand it, they should know, and no one is going to tell this stuff to them unfiltered. Everyone will say "It happens, but not all women are like that" or some other bullshit to make it seem uncommon. The fact is, it doesn't matter if women are all like that or not, what matters is what the law allows women to do, and the bitter side of TRP, the side that talks about divorces and such, is about teaching men how badly the law allows women to fuck men over.

The rest of it is about reciprocating that behavior. If society is going to let men get screwed over to that level, than men need to stop trying to be beneficial to society. Stop marrying, stop having children and stop being relationships because that is what society is telling you to do. Let me put it this way, the government heavily taxes cigarettes, why? Because it's telling you to stop smoking, and if you refuse to stop, they will charge you a hefty fee for not stopping. Similarily, society is telling men to stop dating, stop marrying, stop having children etc by allowing women to screw over guys that do that stuff. It's the tax men pay, and men need to get the message that society wants them to treat women like cum bucket. Society, in this sense, refers to women since it is women who fought for and continue to fight for these bias laws that favor women while shitting on men.

PPDebater · 2017-02-12T23:59:49+00:00

The first issue I have with the TRP community is that it's very cultish.

No. There is debate and discussion that regularly goes on in TRP. If a guy says something is alpha, but someone disagrees, that comment and talk about it.

I can disagree with TRP and NOT be deluded.

There is a difference between disagreeing with a part or parts of TRP, which I do, and disagreeing with it in entirety. First of all, disagreeing with it as a whole is a bit delusional. I mean even the bluest of blues here acknowledge the core elements of TRP, like women preferring stronger, bolder men for casual sex, or the dichotomy of alpha-beta traits.

Second, any group will not accept people who disagree with it's ideas as a whole. Any women's rights group will not be open to discussing or debating with someone who is against abortion, or a BLM group will not be open to discussing with someone who thinks white privilege is a myth. This doesn't mean the groups are cults.

Adult women are adults, yes, they CAN help themselves, they aren't slaves to their biology, just as we men aren't slaves to our own biology. Some men are, some women are, but overall people aren't slaves to their own biology because we have tools in our arsenal: our mind, analysis, decision, good will, respect, decency, etc...

Yea so this relates to what I discussed above. You are essentially denying any form of gender essentialism. Meaning there is no inherent sexual behaviors of men or of women.

More so you are believing that respect and good will factor into sexual relationships. This is entirely false given the whole "Nice Guy" failure with women and that women prefer men who possess dark triad traits

Overall, your disagreeing with TRP as a whole, which is that men and women are sexually and biologically the same.

KoennonTiger · 2017-02-12T21:18:11+00:00

So let's examine your concern trolling post on what TRP is actually about. Will embracing your changes make TRP better?

Many don't like to debate and see any idea other than TRP as immediately BP and bash on it with shaming strategies calling the exponent things as "beta"(which means inferior to "the alpha"), white knight, cunt, etc..

So you posted your advice and it got called out as negative. This is a problem with TRP why? Because we don't recognize just how great your advice is? Well that's how it works in the idea market. Though man this post reeks of gamma. Why doesn't TRP recognize your greatness?

The fallacy of "beta" and "alpha" and "Chad Thundercock". I do believe there's some truth to the idea, but I can't seem to see an objective unified description of those terms other than the simplified "loser", "ideal man" and "all the things you hate and are insecure about personified".

So you get it. You get how we are using the terms. But you wrote a bunch of stuff about it anyway. Ok. Why? Seems like a pointless word salad you just made.

Chad Thundercock. Who is Chad? The more I see people talk about it the more I realise that there's no consensus on it, it's rather an ideal that is the personification of what that person views the ultimate man and compares himself to him, showcasing his own insecurities

Hmm hey you get it again. Why did you write all of that? You think the guys shouldn't be allowed to talk about their insecurities in a male space? Did seeing guys talk about their insecurities hurt your fee-fees? Or is this just more gamma where you tell us all about how special you really are?

TRP dehumanises women.

Of course it does. It's intentional as well. Helps us focus on what's actually important in our lives which is us and avoid serious mental disorders like ONEitis. Did this hurt your fee-fees as well? You should probably PM RPS or butsanalt and let them know that TRP hurt your fee-fees. I don't think they'll do anything about it though cause guess what? It's not about you.

AWALT. No, not all women are like that. This is a gross generalization, and usually it comes from anecdotal/personal experience

Hmm well we observe with our direct experiences women all behaving in certain ways. We talked about it. Women came in to our blogs to tell us all about how "I'm not like that!!" We got sick and tired of women trying to derail our convos and make it about them so we just started telling them AWALT.

The problem I see is that whenever I go into the subreddit there are A LOT of bitter and angry posts, I would say the majority of posts are like that

Oh man we did hurt your fee-fees. Sorry about that guy we'll get right on changing TRP so it's about you and doesn't hurt your fee-fees anymore. Cause you know that's why the sub exists. For you. Our secret gamma king.

his focus isn't to sustain a relationship(most of those relationships fail soon and fail spectacularly) or even about the girl, it's most likely to boast and add one more lay to his count

Oh you mean TRP is about men getting what they want and not men serving women better? Golly gee. Who would have thunk it?

And then we get another paragraph about how great you are and about how you own your woman. Holy misogyny batman. What do you think? That women are property?!

So here's what I'll ask you. In what way would making any of the changes you want actually help make TRP better? Other then it won't hurt your fee-fees as much?

Alth12 · 2017-02-12T22:00:09+00:00

TBH you're equating TRP the sub as meaning the whole of TRP. Go to Good Looking Loser for example and read the comments on his posts or his forums and you have guys just focussing on improving themselves with none of the bitterness. He doesn't even bring up much TRP theory about women's nature apart from what will help you achieve your goals.

The subreddit is filled with people who have drowned in the theory, use "monk mode" as an excuse for inaction and just gripe all day. They've allowed the theory to fuel their negativity, and all prominent RP bloggers warn against that.

Ercole-- · 2017-02-13T01:04:27+00:00

AWALT doesn't mean that all women will cheat any more than AMALT means that all men will cheat. They very well may not, but it's in a woman's nature to upgrade and it's in a man's nature to get more.

Are you as disgusted with AMALT as you are with AWALT?

Pinkpixie85 · 2017-02-13T01:09:23+00:00

I am just now trying to learn about all of this. Superficially; I knew about the labels "beta" and "alpha", but I didn't know about blue pills, red pills, and all of this other stuff.

I know if I went into some places and asked "why can't men and women just get along"; they would think I was crazy. I think immersing in absolutes isn't healthy.

Ercole-- · 2017-02-13T04:38:31+00:00

You're not wrong to say that TRP leads to an unfulfilling life. It does, in the same way that sprinting two miles leads to an uncomfortable afternoon. A couple days later though, you're stronger. When you understand the principals, rules, and theories, you stop hating women and are more prepared than ever for whatever type of relationship(s) you desire.

Sorethroat5 · 2017-02-12T19:32:03+00:00

OP is weak. Disagreeing with an ideology is fine, but doing it because you are concerned about the welfare of people that don't give a shit about you is pathetic.

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blackchucktays · 2017-02-13T01:07:27+00:00

Was gonna say TLDR stop crying, but then I read it and you made some legitimate points. I can see how some people could go overboard, but deep down I still disagree with your conclusion.

IamTheWalkingMenu · 2017-02-13T04:30:35+00:00

There is a lot I'd like to say about this but I'm too lazy to type it on my phone so let me just say this.

Who cares if TRP doesn't want to debate their ideas and opinions and tactics? It's their club. They can do what they want. I'm not going to an AA meeting to talk about how much I love two glasses of wine with my dinner!

WavesAcross · 2017-02-13T17:17:23+00:00

Okay. So you have a bunch of issues with TRP/Its community. However your big issue is that you don't understand TRP and thus your complaints are nonsense. You have a lot of mistakes, but I'm just going to point the biggest thing that shows you don't understand TRP.

That for me is what I'm most proud as a man, but for TRP that is being beta

No its not. Now where does trp say that makes one beta.

listening to her, to her problems, her darkest secrets and deepest fears, breaking through her walls of pain and her trusting me blindly.

Demonstrates that she held a lot of respect and trust for you. If anything TRP would say that makes you alpha because you've managed to generate such respect/trust from her.

There is often this confusion by people who take a cursory pass at TRP that actions that betas often do, are what makes one beta. And thus an Alpha can not do those things, or else he would be beta. That is not correct. There is nothing "beta" about doing things for other people. What is beta is doing things for other people because your desperate for their validation.

The guy who thinks "Maybe if I do lots of nice things for her, she will want to sleep with me" is beta. The guy (once in a relationship) who constantly tries to please his partner, because hes worried if he doesn't, that she will leave him. Is beta. There is nothing beta about doing nice things for people. Its when you start doing nice things for people, because you seek their approval, that is beta.

The beta is in a weird way egotistical and lacking in self worth. He does nice things for others, but only in the hopes that they will give him value in return. And they can. Its just not the kind of self worth one should rely upon,because it is purely conditional. People also generally recongize that the beta is not genuine, which is obviously unattractive.

Randommorningkiller · 2017-02-13T08:53:56+00:00

Slow down there.

The first issue I have with the TRP community is that it's very cultish.

Human nature. Deal with it, adapt, learn to identify in-groupers and debaters. Though this seems to be borderline concern-trolling.

The fallacy of "beta" and "alpha" and "Chad Thundercock".

This is equivalent to debating the legitimacy of stories in religious texts. It's not the important thing to take away, the point is understanding how to address situations with the basic understanding of the traits.

AWALT. No, not all women are like that.

TRP dehumanises women.

Women are less varying in fundamental behaviours. Regardless, humans don't really have control over what they do to a great extent. Biology and culture plays a huge part in almost all decisions.

Men are wired to adapt to the environment in whatever way their brains deem necessary. Adaptation takes a lot of trial and error, so men's brains have to vary a lot to solve whatever problem the species has with haste. Men don't have more agency, they just have more possible outcomes.

Women for the most part will do whatever all women are wired to do unless culture punishes them heavily, because that's the best thing for them to do to reproduce, regardless of their environment.

When culture is functioning properly, red pill and related things don't exist. Men adapt to more important things than sexual strategy, like advancing technology, medicine, etc.

But since western culture goes against human nature, men have started to create strategies to basically return to the normal, natural sexual dynamic. This is red pill.

Not all women are like that, but all women are wired to be like that and all men are wired to adapt. They are not going to address outliers, they are going to seek solutions to the norm.

TRP is an angry, bitter community

Men are competitive. Anger and bitter is a mix of flexing nuts, showing off who is more of a master of their destiny and weaker men lashing out at a system they can't compete equally in.

Hypergamy

Ideally, society allows for limited polygamy. Top tier men can have many women, bottom tier men can't and aren't capable of acquiring many women anyway. This along with strict restrictions on women's mating choices keep everyone satisfied. Most men have empty balls and are focused on their labours, most women and children are taken care of, the best genes are spread the most without any issue of single mothers gimping the top tier children.

Western culture, which goes against human nature, not only prohibits contractual polygamy, it puts all the legal power over the future of society in the hands of the women. This means many men are sexually unsatisfied and unproductive, many women are pumped and dumped, top genes are spread and then wasted in broken homes.

Hypergamy is what ensures women make sure the top tier men spread the most genes. Polygamy is what ensures top tier men spread the most genes. There is no male hypergamy, men aren't trading up, they're sacrificing to meet a need due to a poorly run society.

Unabummer80 · 2017-02-14T05:18:37+00:00

It works for me. That's all. I don't have to agree with everything I read, and I don't need to get upset if people disagree with it because it works for me. I'm a lot happier these days and part of that is from reading TRP. Again, it doesn't matter if you get upset about it, I'll never meet you and you will never be recipient of any consequences that I cause, so in the end you're just preaching to make yourself feel righteous

PurpleBanner · 2017-02-16T22:53:34+00:00

The problem with red pillers is that they are stupid and weak.

You are. Most of the time when red pillers speak, they sound like uppity blue pillers.

JimCanuck · 2017-02-13T01:25:23+00:00

I'm just going to comment on the points you made ...

The first issue I have with the TRP community is that it's very cultish. Many don't like to debate and see any idea other than TRP as immediately BP and bash on it with shaming strategies calling the exponent things as "beta"(which means inferior to "the alpha"), white knight, cunt, etc..

Pretty much the definition of any group of people who all believe in the same thing. It turns into a cult of people circle jerking to their own ideas.

The fallacy of "beta" and "alpha" and "Chad Thundercock". I do believe there's some truth to the idea, but I can't seem to see an objective unified description of those terms other than the simplified "loser", "ideal man" and "all the things you hate and are insecure about personified".

Your either with "us" (Alphas), or "against us" (Chads) or an "undereducated fool" (Betas). A typical stance of cult like groups of people. Categorize and destroy your opposition by denouncing them one way or the other.

He's like the adult TRP version of the boogeyman.

Which is funny, but sad that people need a boogeyman into adulthood. I am waiting for them to come to the conclusion, that their version of the tooth fairy also exists.

TRP dehumanises women.

It's the same need people in history had to do to strip themselves of their morals and ethics to do bad things. The same way the Nazi's could justify what they did to the Jews, the same way the Japanese did what they did to the Chinese etc.

Once you dehumanized them, you are capable of treating them like dirt and not feel guilty. It's a sign of psychological issues in my not-a-psychiatrist opinion.

I've seen a lot of guys be unfaithful to girls, upgrading one up for a younger/hotter girl. It's not a gender thing, it's a character issue.

The thing they blame women for, and yet, it's their end goal, especially on subs like marriedredpill. So the hypocrisy is kinda high on this point.

AWALT. No, not all women are like that. This is a gross generalization, and usually it comes from anecdotal/personal experience.

I doubt they have had enough real social interactions with women to really know what women do that can be accurately described as AWALT. After all most of their field reports sound like more circlejerking justification of their views.

TRP is an angry, bitter community. And I see that as a natural aspect, if I had married a girl and she had cheated on me, divorced me, taken my kids and my money I would surely be as angry and bitter as the next guy. It's natural.

There are a few legitimate men on TRP who would fit that, but for the most part, they are angry and bitter, because they have never had the ability to have a real relationship. I have yet to meet a man who claims to read TRP who had a successful dating life, both pre and post swallowing the pill.

And who else plays on that rules? Bad girls. So, they try to "one-up" the bad girl by being a badder guy.

Yes, they do tend to go after that small percentage of women who most men wouldn't even date. Because the average man is smart enough to know they are not worth the hassle. But these are the only women that jerks ... sorry RP'ers ... can pick up.

Title	Issues with TRP
Author	PPDebater
Upvotes	19
Comments	151
Date	February 12, 2017 6:12 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/5tmyru/issues_with_trp/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/issues-with-trp.270121 https://theredarchive.com/post/270121

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