TBP is a hate sub: An example

disposable_pants · 2017-01-02T09:02:54+00:00

The Blue Pill is a hate sub. It exists for no purpose other than to discuss how much its members hate the members of another group. A recent, highly-upvoted...

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I do also see the hypocrisy you're pointing out. But being tolerant doesn't mean I have to tolerate everything. That would be an idiotic, weak af stance. For me it just means I don't like unnecessary or irrational intolerance.

I see the above post as being fairly well justified (bit OTT, tho). RPers obviously see their shit as being well justified, too, and will tell you until the ends of the earth that they are not ''misogynists'' because they don't like to seem ''hateful''. I think many of these people are deluded, they probably think I'm deluded etc

I don't think every BPer (esp here) is super ''bleeding heart'' and into ''tolerance for all''. It's just a different kind of intolerance -- what is and isn't tolerated is decided based on ''behavioural'' factors (shit you say, shit you do, the politics you choose to have) rather than ''identity'' factors (your gender, race, socioeconomic class). Altho, there's obviously some overlap.

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Yes you were, you immediately assumed I have some idealistic, childish perspective on what love is. Sorry, words have meaning, and whatever hippie dippy version of the word you're selling, I'm not buying. This seeking the plate spinning lifestyle are not seeking love. YOU are the idealist here if you truly believe that to be the case. And nobody said anything about hate -- that's another wrong assumption you've made about me and my perspectives. Plate spinning isn't hate but it isn't love either. Be objective.

Why are you unable to fathom that a guy who has never even held the hand of a girl, who grows up watching porn and hyper sexual TV-advertisements as a benchmark for how he should interact towards women might get the idea of love confused with getting pussy?

What does this have to do with whether plate spinning is actual love? Plate spinners aren't looking for love, by definition.

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What if they just hate on them for being hateful?

I would hope any thoughtful person would at least scratch their heads a little at the inherent contradiction. "I don't like that they're hateful, so I'm going to be hateful to them...", etc. I'm also curious as to what larger moral framework they believe in that simultaneously condemns hateful behavior by others yet endorses hateful behavior towards groups one dislikes.

Do you think it's wrong to hate on the man hating feminists?

I've certainly never thought it necessary to seek out a forum for bashing them and then circlejerk with others about how much they suck. What's the point? If they bother me too much I can ignore them. If I'm worried about their influence growing it's infinitely more productive to A) focus on persuading people on the fence to come to my side or B) at least producing some sort of rational counterargument. Shitting on them to reap karma from other people who are already shitting on them does nothing except make me feel better about myself, and that's ultimately a pretty hollow sort of fulfillment.

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[–]Falchion12952 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

A lot of people believe hate is central to the muslim religion.

For a lot of subsection of islam, I'd say there right. But there are 1.8 billion muslims in the world and there are many ways to practice Islam. Furthermore, many people are born and raised as muslims, and getting out then, even if you don't practice hate, is pretty hard.

Nobody is born as a TRP'er. You have to actively join. You have to see the subreddit and think to yourself "Normal self improvement isn't good enough, I need this sexism mixed in" and click the subscribe button.

I don't see how it's anymore sexist for TRP to tell men to be careful and assume women aren't attached to them

See, this is exactly what I mean. "Don't get overly attached" is really common advice, so common that "overly attached girlfriend" is a meme and that all the stereotypical niceguys and stereotypical neckbeards that are totally overattached are made fun of pretty much everywhere. This is not a TRP idea at all. Now if you're looking fo the "never ever get attached to a woman because she doesn't really love you", yes that is a TRP thing, but then again, that is a bad thing that does deserve ridicule.

[–]theiamsamurai3 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It's safer for women to get attached than for men, considering men's suicide and depression rates after break-ups are higher than women's, despite women having overall higher depression rates. Men's attraction to women is much stronger than women's attraction to men on average. Are you just gonna gloss over those facts?

What about the "women are wonderful effect" where a lot of benevolent sexism is directed towards women from both men and women? It's because of women being perceived to have more underlying value than men due to their sexuality. This effect spans the whole society, this is independent of TRP.

A lot of men figured out those facts independently, all TRP did was put a name for them. That's a hell of a lot more likely than someone figuring out islam on their own without reading koran or interacting with muslims.

[–]Falchion12952 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Men's attraction to women is much stronger than women's attraction to men on average.

That's a fact now?

It's safer for women to get attached than for men, considering men's suicide and depression rates after break-ups are higher than women's, despite women having overall higher depression rates.

Still doesn't mean "Never get attached she doesn't love you" is even close to good advice. And in a study I've read that talked about this, it said that one of the main causes was that men rely too much on their wives, so that when the break up happens, they have no one to go to with their problems, or no one to help them stay healthy. And like I said, "Don't get too attached and also have a social network larger than just your wife" is very common advice. Don't need TRP for that.

What about the "women are wonderful effect" where a lot of benevolent sexism is directed towards women from both men and women?

Sure, that exists, just like there is in other areas benevolent sexism towards men (a lot of people automatically assume men are better leaders for example). Just because TRP acknowledges this doesn't mean their other ideas are right.

A lot of men figured out those facts independently, all TRP did was put a name for them.

Again, if you figured out all those "facts" (and lot of TRP facts are just personal observations and confirmation bias or very cherry picked studies), and you join TRP you're still choosing for an ideology that only sets itself apart with the sexist stuff. You literally get everything you get on TRP with normal self improvement EXCEPT for the sexist stuff. You choose to be TRP, I will assume you agree with the sexist stuff. Reasonable right?

[–]theiamsamurai3 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yes, it is a fact. Men's attraction is much stronger than women's, as evidenced by men spending more money on women than vice versa, it's also evidenced by women ending most relationships. In fact, lesbian relationships have the highest break-up rates, and gay relationships have the lowest. Who would've thought that if you put two people with weaker baseline attraction together, the relationship is less likely to work?

This model is also consistent with evolutionary biology, as we're closer to a tournament species than to a pair-bonding species. If you aren't sure what those terms mean and how they apply to our species, watch the evolutionary biology lectures of Robert Sapolsky from Stanford.

A lot of men notice the trend that guys always get blamed in break-ups and get dumped more, and are sick of being told that it's equal, but seeing otherwise in society, so they do their own research because they want to know what the truth is.

It's not about confirmation bias, it's about Occam's razor: The simplest explanation that covers the most bases tends to be the best, so the best explanation ends up being that women's attraction is weaker and less stable than male attraction, it covers literally all of those.

[–]Shazoa2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a bit more complex than that but, to a point, yeah.

Being a Muslim is just as much a cultural thing as it is a religious one and, as much as religion should be between someone and their god, it rarely works out that way. Take religion in the UK as an example and a majority of people on the census identify as Christian, yet over 50% of people say they don't believe in god. There are people all over the world ready to identify with a religious group on cultural grounds.

That said, it isn't necessarily easy to 'escape' that culture or religion or, as it happens, that dogma. There are real social pressures acting there. That's why you're almost certainly going to end up a Muslim if you're born to Muslim parents.

The obvious difference is in more western countries. Yeah, you're more likely to be a Christian or a Muslim if you're born to religious parents in the UK but you also have a very good chance of being an atheist or converting to something else entirely. That's cause there aren't as many social pressures there.

All of that means that slating someone for their religious beliefs is more muddied than just assuming it was a conscious choice and not something that really they had little control over.

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The idea is to think about how hateful thinking like "fuck those guys; do whatever you want to them"

Well, I don't think TBP advocates for actual physical harm to TRP'ers. They mock/hate the attitude and actions of TRP'ers, but I've never seen them call for extermination of TRP'ers or something (well maybe on or two, but there's lunatics on every subreddit).

So why are you comfortable with that type of hate here?

So what type of extreme hate are you talking about? 80% of TBP is just mockery/pity/casual hate on what TRP'ers do. Nobody is calling for the execution of TRP'ers. The hate goes more like "If you choose to be part of TRP you are a pathetic human being". Is that so bad? And not every viewpoint has to be seriously considered, even though there are also posts on TBP that do seriously discuss why TRP is bad for you.

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[–]Falchion12950 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Doesn't it cause you to wonder why you're so comfortable with all the hate up to that point?

So the hate is literally just calling TRP pathetic over the internet and you think that is "all the hate"? Does TRP have really really thin skin or what?

What purpose is there to that kind of hate?

What purpose? It's just a satire sub/venting sub. You can use it to make fun of TRP or mock it. People like to mock things that are ridiculous and they like to have a place to get together with other people to hate on other people that do bad things. It shows you're not the only one disliking TRP. And you can connect with other people who also see how ridiculous/bad TRP is. What's wrong with that? You're free to ignore TBP really.

Do you so casually, repeatedly discuss your hatred for other groups in the same manner? If so, why?

It depends on the group. Hardcore SJW'ers that promote exclusion, TRP'ers, radfems that support women getting 100% of everything always, yeah I would mention in casual conversation that I think they're bad pathetic people. Why wouldn't I?

[–]disposable_pants1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Does TRP have really really thin skin or what?

"You must just have thin skin" is just an excuse to be an asshole. And when a group is an asshole to the same people over and over again, they're a hate group.

Imagine you're at a holiday party and you start talking about how immigrants are pathetic, brain dead, cowardly, and you hope they all get fucked in the ass. You're with close friends and you kind of ham it up a bit, so people just laugh it off as some over-the-top humor. But then you give the same speech day in and day out for years, finding new and creative ways to hurl insults at immigrants. You don't break character, and whenever you talk to an immigrant you're rude and make it clear that you think they're an idiot. How long before your friends start to think you hate immigrants?

What purpose? It's just a satire sub/venting sub.

I get the need for occasional venting, but why would anyone want to spew that sort of hate over and over again for months or years on end? That goes way beyond occasional venting.

[–]Falchion12951 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

And when a group is an asshole to the same people over and over again, they're a hate group.

I'm gonna disagree there, it depends on the group there are an asshole to. If I'm an asshole to someone because that person himself is an asshole to begin with, I really don't see the problem. Same with TRP really.

Just being an asshole to someone doesn't make you a hate group, it depends why you're being an asshole. And if the reason is because the group reinforces harmful behaviour, I would say that it's pretty justified.

I get the need for occasional venting, but why would anyone want to spew that sort of hate over and over again for months or years on end?

You ever go to r/tumblrinaction ? People like making fun of other people that do ridiculous stuff. And let's be honest, 80% of TBP isn't the burning hatred you describe, but more a combination of mockery and disgust. Just like r/tumblrinaction really.

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TRP is an ideology, much like religion is an ideology, much like capitalism or communism are ideologies. They're all worldviews people use to try and make sense of reality. Hating a person solely because they subscribe to a given ideology, and making that hatred the primary (if not only) goal of your group makes that group a hate group. Anti-Catholic hate groups are a clear example of ideology-based hatred. Anti-communist paramilitary groups (see: Columbia) are another example of ideology-based hatred.

if opposing TRP treated the same as hating a religion, surely antifeminists are also a hate group?

If there's an anti-feminist group that hates people strictly for subscribing to feminism, and that is the primary (if not only) purpose of that group, then absolutely it's a hate group. But that certainly doesn't describe TRP or any men's rights group, and I'm not sure it describes any manosphere group I'm aware of. In all of those groups the main purpose is clearly to help men better their own lives, and the presence of a certain amount of hate doesn't change that. It's no different from how there's a certain amount of hate on the edges of the Republican and Democratic parties, yet neither of them are hate groups because they clearly have primary goals that aren't just hating the other side.

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And TBP can be seen as an effort to prevent people from falling into toxic TRP beliefs.

By insulting and ridiculing them constantly? Here's an example of a guy coming to TBP and saying he's considering red pill ideas. If they cared at all about "prevent[ing] people from falling into toxic TRP beliefs", this guy is right up their alley. But for some reason he's slammed with downvotes and asked if he's ever met a woman before.

You've essentially defined "Hate group" as something that exclusively affects people who you disagree with, whereas you give sides you agree with enough benefit of the doubt to avoid that label.

No, I define "hate group" as a group which has a primary purpose (or sole purpose) of hating another group. TBP clearly fits that definition. Any flimsy arguments about "discouraging people from becoming what I hate" fall apart when the sub rips on anyone who even considers the wrong ideas.

If you don't agree with that definition, what's yours?

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[–]disposable_pants2 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

And his comment about "well maybe it's not going to the gym that mattered here, but the mysogyny" is obviously going to be downvoted because it shows he just wants TBP to admit that maybe mysogyny will work. He can literally read any of the stickied posts there to find his answer, so why is he asking at all?

This is the mentality I'm talking about. The guy is wrong and a troll just for asking a follow-up question. He didn't get into a lengthy debate, or get chippy, or start telling people they're wrong, or start pushing red pill ideas. He asked one completely logical follow-up -- "TRP says you need X and Y to be successful, you're saying all you need is X, but what if Y is kind of important, too?" -- and gets slammed for it.

but you ask in the comments "why can't it be square wheels?" anyway

Another example of this mentality. "You're obviously wrong, I'm obviously right, anyone who dares question me is an idiot or a troll." If TBP actually cared about appealing to people on the fence that wouldn't happen.

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[–]disposable_pants2 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, people on TBP don't want to have that discussion

Then they don't get to cry "bad faith".

I mean if you into TRP and you ask "But maybe being nice really will work?", you'd get downvoted too and directed to the sidebar.

It's easy to challenge mainstream parts of TRP on TRP and get upvoted. Look at "women are perfectly rational" and "women with high partner counts aren't automatically flawed" in particular.

Again, you think if I'm going over to TRP and make a thread that goes "Maybe being nice and searching for true love is really the solution" I'm going to get upvoted?

Per the link above, yes, you can absolutely question parts of TRP on TRP. TRP even made an entirely separate sub specifically for people who have questions about it, solely to accommodate those questions. And all of this despite TRP explicitly saying they aren't trying to appeal to anyone on the fence.

TBP is claiming it is trying to appeal to people on the fence, yet it's nowhere near as open to any consideration of opposing viewpoints.

[–]Falchion12951 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]disposable_pants1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

TBP is not a sub to discuss whether or not TRP works.

If they're so closed to discussion that they won't even entertain a question, they're not operating in good faith from the start. Therefore they don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to complaining that someone on their sub is arguing in bad faith.

Hell, there are people on here who claim that nothing on TBP is serious. You can't reasonably start talking about what arguments are in good or bad faith if you're claiming it's all a joke.

And in the links you provided, you just suggest variations on TRP that are still in the spirit of TRP

How is "women are perfectly rational" a mere "variation" on the various TRP posts claiming women are not rational? How is "women with high partner counts aren't automatically flawed" simply a "variation" on the various TRP posts claiming the exact opposite?

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[–]sublimemongrel2 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

How much can one really hate women if they're making significant life changes to attract them? TRP bitching about women is like salespeople bitching that customers who'll eventually buy from them don't just say what they want right off the bat. It's frustration at the parts of the game that most people will admit are a little silly, not naked hatred of the people themselves.

Lol, plenty. You're trying to rationalize it, but even the mods/ECs admit it being misogynistic. And you think TBP has "naked hatred" of RPers? No, they hate them for things they say and the behaviors they promote. It didn't spring up all on its own, out of nowhere, for no reason at all.

Then you'd agree it's a hate sub?

I agree they are hateful of TRPers, sure. Not of an entire gender and not totally without reason. Do you agree r/TheRedPill is misogynistic?

[–]disposable_pants2 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're trying to rationalize it, but even the mods/ECs admit it being misogynistic.

And many of them are married or in a serious LTR, and about all of them have dated plenty of women at one time or another. If I say I'm racist, but all of my friends are minorities and I'm married to a minority woman, am I really racist? Actions speak louder than words.

Do you agree r/TheRedPill is misogynistic?

The segment of TRP that calls itself misogynistic definitely includes some people who genuinely hate women, but the logical conclusion of that mindset (MGTOW) is rare enough that that subgroup is clearly a small minority. The majority of the "we're misogynistic" crowd is either trolling blue pillers, attention whoring, attempting to keep the sub from slipping towards gynocentric thinking, or attempting to own the most common critique leveled at the sub.

How different is it from someone calling themselves an asshole?

[–]sublimemongrel2 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]disposable_pants1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I can't judge any individual's actual actions, I have to rely upon what they say.

There's a third option -- not rushing to judgement when you don't have anything more than anonymous internet comments. And if you're "relying on what they say", you'd also have to factor in that they say they behave in a manner that's inconsistent with actually hating women.

If that was true there wouldn't be misogynistic posts on the sidebar.

I can't think of anything on the sidebar that's truly misogynistic, as in "I hate women" misogynistic. A decent amount of sidebar material implies women are inferior, but that's not hate -- I can think my coworkers are inferior professionals in need of my leadership without hating them. And there's no reason sidebar articles are immune to "trolling blue pillers, attention whoring, attempting to keep the sub from slipping towards gynocentric thinking, or attempting to own the most common critique leveled at the sub".

The majority of the hate from TBP is aimed at those users.

Then the question is why TBP is so invested in hating people who don't actually hate women. Perhaps it's because TBP isn't really interested in whether or not red pillers actually hate women, because TBP made up its mind on the matter long ago.

[–]sublimemongrel2 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

There's a third option -- not rushing to judgement when you don't have anything more than anonymous internet comments.

On a subreddit which explicitly preaches AWALT, you expect us to give them the benefit of the doubt, despite their own explicit words?

I can't think of anything on the sidebar that's truly misogynistic, as in "I hate women" misogynistic.

All the shit about single mother's being scum, women being teenagers, "managing bitches", women not being worth it, that's all pretty hateful of women if you ask me.

And there's no reason sidebar articles are immune to "trolling blue pillers, attention whoring, attempting to keep the sub from slipping towards gynocentric thinking, or attempting to own the most common critique leveled at the sub".

If that's justifiable for woman-hate, why isn't "trolling red pills, and attempting to keep others from slipping towards red pill thinking" also justifiable for TRP-hate?

Then the question is why TBP is so invested in hating people who don't actually hate women.

Because a good many of them say hateful things about women and promote hateful behavior towards women so it's a safe assumption that they do, in fact, hate women.

And look obviously I wouldn't be here if I thought that was the case about all red pillers. There are plenty who seem like decent, good men. And plenty of others who just seem confused/angry/lost. But JFC man, your sub has plenty of its own hate to go around.

[–]disposable_pants1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

On a subreddit which explicitly preaches AWALT, you expect us to give them the benefit of the doubt, despite their own explicit words?

You're trying to eat your cake and have it, too. You can't logically criticize red pillers for making generalizations and then turn around and make generalizations about them. If you truly believed generalizations were unreasonable and should not be used, you wouldn't apply them to TRP.

Either you are OK with using generalizations and just don't like what TRP is generalizing about, or you are against generalizations as a whole and shouldn't be using them yourself. Pick one.

All the shit about single mother's being scum, women being teenagers, "managing bitches", women not being worth it, that's all pretty hateful of women if you ask me.

"Single mothers are scum" isn't about all women, it's about a subset of women who've made bad choices and generally make bad partners. "Women are teenagers" isn't hate, it's saying women generally aren't as responsible and respond well to leadership -- no different than my example about coworkers. "Managing bitches" is just using profanity; men use profanity to refer to all sorts of things they don't hate all the time.

If that's justifiable for woman-hate, why isn't "trolling red pills, and attempting to keep others from slipping towards red pill thinking" also justifiable for TRP-hate?

As I've pointed out elsewhere in this thread, TBP isn't actually interested in keeping people on the fence from buying into TRP. And when the primary purpose (if not the only purpose) of a group is to hate other people, "trolling" is just the a flimsy excuse. If there was any other purpose to TBP I might buy it.

Because a good many of them say hateful things about women and promote hateful behavior towards women so it's a safe assumption that they do, in fact, hate women.

You believe that, but you don't believe it when they say they're married, in an LTR, or have dated plenty of other women in the past.

But JFC man, your sub has plenty of its own hate to go around.

Again, that's whataboutism. It's a completely independent issue from the fact that TBP is a hate sub.

[–]sublimemongrel2 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're trying to eat your cake and have it, too.

No I'm not, because I don't preach AWALT nor do I categorize all red pillers the same, and I've made that clear on several occasions. But for those whose explicit statements preach hatred/mischaracterization of women, why in the fuck would I give them the benefit of the doubt?

"Single mothers are scum" isn't about all women, it's about a subset of women who've made bad choices and generally make bad partners. "Women are teenagers" isn't hate, it's saying women generally aren't as responsible and respond well to leadership -- no different than my example about coworkers. "Managing bitches" is just using profanity; men use profanity to refer to all sorts of things they don't hate all the time.

You're still rationalizing it. You're sugar coating the concepts, but their words are pretty fucking clear.

And when the primary purpose (if not the only purpose) of a group is to hate other people, "trolling" is just the a flimsy excuse.

I could say the same thing about the misogynistic RP posts. The underlying intent isn't as important to me as the inaccurate, hateful concepts they perpetuate. Why should it be? Why is it ok under the guise of "helping men" when it's still hate?

You believe that, but you don't believe it when they say they're married, in an LTR, or have dated plenty of other women in the past.

Just because they are hateful towards women as a group doesn't mean they are hateful of all women. This is the same "I have a black friend I can't be racist" argument.

It's a completely independent issue from the fact that TBP is a hate sub.

Well that you're right about. But it's still fun pointing out the hypocrisy!

[–]disposable_pants1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

But for those whose explicit statements preach hatred/mischaracterization of women, why in the fuck would I give them the benefit of the doubt?

Because you're complaining that they don't give the benefit of the doubt to others. You don't hold yourself to the same standards you ask of other people?

You're sugar coating the concepts

You're assuming the worst and letting confirmation bias do the rest. You're writing off the meaning of the content because you don't like mean language.

Why is it ok under the guise of "helping men" when it's still hate?

Except as I've demonstrated before, most of TRP is not hateful. It's not hate under the guise of helping men, it's helping men with a bit of hate from the frustrated ones.

This is the same "I have a black friend I can't be racist" argument.

No, it's "all of my friends are black and I'm married to a black woman; exactly how racist can I be"?

[–]sublimemongrel1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Because you're complaining that they don't give the benefit of the doubt to others. You don't hold yourself to the same standards you ask of other people?

Not when they explicitly say xyz, no. It's a far cry to say "this person thinks and does xyz because they explicitly said so," versus "this person thinks and does xyz because they are male/female."

You're assuming the worst and letting confirmation bias do the rest. You're writing off the meaning of the content because you don't like mean language.

You are using the most charitable version of those posts. You're ignoring the hatefulness because your interpretation of the concepts is different. If I wrote a post about how men are "scum" and "not worth it for the most part" and are "spoiled/entitled bitches" you'd certainly not ignore the hate, regardless of whether I told you the "underlying message isn't that bad."

It's not hate under the guise of helping men, it's helping men with a bit of hate from the frustrated ones.

I think you're being too charitable again, I think a good chunk of it is hatefulness not jus some small minority.

No, it's "all of my friends are black and I'm married to a black woman; exactly how racist can I be"?

TRP literally says women are worthless for friendship so this analogy falls flat, but even if it didn't, you can still like the POC that you know and be racist.

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[–]shogunofsarcasmI do what I want6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

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[–]shogunofsarcasmI do what I want2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

But in all cases their primary purpose -- the reason that brings everyone together -- is hate. If you don't agree with that definition, what's yours?

A hate group is a group that hates a specific or many of the following: certain gender, religion, race, sexuality. BPs biggest purpose is to point out the hate in RP through satire and other things. Their primary purpose is not hate.

So you think TRP is a hate sub, and are saying TBP does the same thing that TRP does... yet TBP somehow isn't a hate sub? Again, what definition of "hate sub" are you using?

You are basically saying BP and RP are not hate subs. My definition leans towards RP being a hate sub because of its feelings towards women as a whole.

Quote the part of the linked post that can be viewed as satirical.

I said exaggerated, but really the whole thing comes across as a satire of RP, especially the alfalfa bit at the end

[–]disposable_pants[S] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

A hate group is a group that hates a specific or many of the following: certain gender, religion, race, sexuality.

Religion is nothing more than a group of people sharing similar beliefs. Logically your definition would extend to hate against any group that shares similar beliefs, like a political ideology or a sub like TRP.

My definition leans towards RP being a hate sub because of its feelings towards women as a whole.

By "feeling towards women as a whole", do you mean "is attracted to them, and wants to be attractive to them so badly that its members will make major life changes"? Because while TRP may say harsh words about women in some posts, it's a stretch to argue that red pillers hate the women they're going to significant lengths to attract.

Contrast that with the "I'll never ever ever ever sleep with a red piller because they're horrible, terrible, no-good-very-bad people" message of the post in question.

the whole thing comes across as a satire of RP, especially the alfalfa bit at the end

Be more specific -- none of it reads as satire to me. What's one specific passage that's particularly satirical?

And patronizing, mocking shots like "alfalfa" are not satire; they're insults. If I started condescendingly addressing you as "pal" or "chief" in every reply, no reasonable person would write that off as a poor attempt at humor. It's a clearly antagonistic rhetorical device.

[–]shogunofsarcasmI do what I want2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

By "feeling towards women as a whole", do you mean "is attracted to them, and wants to be attractive to them so badly that its members will make major life changes"? Because while TRP may say harsh words about women in some posts, it's a stretch to argue that red pillers hate the women they're going to significant lengths to attract.

Things like AWALT, women are idiots, women don't have hobbies, women are only useful when pretty, women shouldn't be bosses etc.

Contrast that with the "I'll never ever ever ever sleep with a red piller because they're horrible, terrible, no-good-very-bad people" message of the post in question.

Would you sleep with someone who is hateful and judgmental to your entire gender? Would you sleep with someone who stands for things you don't agree with because you think it spreads misinformation and hate? Not sleeping with someone doesn't make them hateful towards the person.

Be more specific -- none of it reads as satire to me. What's one specific passage that's particularly satirical? And patronizing, mocking shots like "alfalfa" are not satire; they're insults. If I started condescendingly addressing you as "pal" or "chief" in every reply, no reasonable person would write that off as a poor attempt at humor. It's a clearly antagonistic rhetorical device.

Well it assumes right away that ARPALT so it is a satire of the lists of reasons RPs post about why AWALT is a thing. It is exaggerated much like many posts on RP but turns it around. That is satire too. It also satirizes RP terminology like alpha.

So, I am not going to quote the whole thing.

[–]disposable_pants[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]shogunofsarcasm1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it not satire. It also doesn't make RP less hateful

But here is the bit that is satire.

List of why I will never date a RP even if they're "attractive, adventurous alfalfa catch..." (self.TheBluePill) submitted 2 days ago by atarigatismy lemur runs my fempire Someone that has to claim they're alpha, strong, dominant 24/7 online or offline isn't actually strong in any way, shape or form. They're just trying to convince themselves and others of it. Someone that needs another human being under them, offend them, belittle them, control them, take advantage of are WEAK, not strong and they most certainly aren't powerful in any way. They're cowards and sadists. Someone that uses others as their support in life and then turns around and mocks them for the care and support they gave isn't an alpha. They're pathetic. Someone so shallow, so insecure, suffering for many forms of cognitive dissonance, can't possible be attractive. They're repulsive. Someone obsessed with lifting physical things, but never about uplifting others or their own spirit isn't alpha nor adventurous. They're boring, dull, and emotionally anally constipated they'd suck up my couch. Someone that thinks women haven't contributed anything "relevant" to the world across time and space, isn't a catch, they're brain dead. Someone that thinks power comes from controlling people, and not from knowing yourself and others and understanding them to the best of you capabilities and limits and balancing your own mind, is powerless and forever will be. Someone that thinks they're superior to me in most ways because they have a stick between their legs, needs to find another stick partner in life and bend over to fuck their attractive, adventurous ass out of their blue closet and into red pill parallel reality where there are no women. Godspeed, alfalfa. Send a postcard once in a while.

[–]alternativeuniversek1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

When you talk about two opposing factions, you're going to find hatred in both.

Think about something that doesn't involve social issues to discuss - e.g. professional soccer - where supporting one team can lead to hatred of supporters of an opposing team. This hatred can brew to the extent that humans can be driven to murder (in extreme cases) or street brawls (more common). This is hatred expressed based on a mere game, because people identify with different sides of the game.

Then think about the pillosphere... two groups with opposing ideologies and throw in the extra bonus of anonymity and you have carte blanche to act as hatefully as members want.

However while TBP hates TRP, TRP in its turn hates TBP and "women" and "beta men".

You'll see "the reason why I hate women is..." written on TRP.

But you don't see, "the reason I hate men is..." on TBP.

One is much more hateful towards living people in society, and it's not TBP.

[–]disposable_pants[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]alternativeuniversek1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How much can someone really hate women if they're trying to attract them?

If a person is trying to attract a domestic cat to them with the intent of killing them, the person generally still hates cats.

A serial killer with make themselves attractive to people to lure them in, etc.

Trying to attract someone isn't the same as being attracted to them; and even when this is the case, being attracted to something doesn't necessarily mean you like it or treat it well. You can be obsessed with something you hate, and that obsession can often involve luring the target of hate to you via attraction.

When you hear about some people on MRP or TRP specifically stating that they hate-fuck their wives, do you call that attraction? Particularly if they admit they don't find their wife attractive, and they're only staying in the marriage "for the kids" (bad reasoning btw, in my opinion, but beside the point).

Do all MRPers and TRPers think that way? Of course not. Some of them certainly don't think that way, and many of them ARE seeking self-improvement and trying to attract women without the hatred. But there's enough posts bragging about women being disgusting bitches that I wonder why the poster isn't on MGTOW. (That is rhetorical. I know why.)

The problem is the most vocal "ALL women are disgusting, spiteful bitches" speakers tend to be the flaired long-standing members who write long essays on the topic. MGTOW-type stuff that's on TRP.

I'd say that's pretty hateful. I'd also say it's driven by a need for the poster to retain some kind of popularity by being edge-lordy (because there's now an oversaturation of sidebar advice on how to attract women, so the flaired long-timers feel like they need something "new" and more forceful to be heard and retain that popularity).

Unfortunately because they're well-known, these more prolific "all women should die" posters get more upvotes and a larger audience. If you've been around for years, you can even see some men who were fairly even-handed about 3 years ago now ranting about how all women are bitches who - without exception - have hidden agendas and will destroy you, thus you should hate them. Some OPs will later justify this language by stating they're using hyperbole, however this apparent "irony" is lost on many of the members, as you can see in the comments sections of the more hate-fueled OPs.

You must have noticed this as you've been around for a long time too and occasionally post on TRP. Though your views are far more even-handed than the vocal haters, you must have noticed this with some of the old-timers? You might not agree with their ideology, but it's there.

All this hatred directed towards "Billy Beta" and "White Knights" is also a worrying TRP trend. I think it's becoming more popular as time goes on as this area is less explored than the "all women are awful" subject. Writing a post about noticing a male stranger help a random woman up from the sidewalk because she's fallen over, then calling him a beta "(insert derogatory hate word)", isn't a kindly-meant post. Nor is this helpful behaviour necessarily indicative of "beta" behaviour (language I don't believe helps anyone, by the way - this apparent alpha/beta divide).

Even worse is seeing a post on asktrp where a guy is asking for help after a male friend has been raped, and all the advice is "your friend is clearly gay" and "he deserved it". This is also, in my opinion, hateful and mean-spirited.

The sheer amount of field reports on TRP show that members are willing to implement gender-directed hatred in real life, which makes it more of a concern as a hate group. On the other hand, while TBP does show hatred towards TRP, the real-world implications of this hatred are less noxious because most red pillers in real life don't advertise the fact that they are red pillers.

I'm not a red piller or an ex-red piller but looking at all the evidence at hand... this is what I've found to be the trend. There's also the large proportion of ex-red pillers who state that they couldn't really embrace the ideology because "I couldn't believe that my sister/mother is the diabolical life-destroying bitch they insist she is". Some also credit Mark Manson's Models as a reason for leaving the group (which takes a less hateful approach to dating).

[–]cuittlerಠ_ಠ12 points13 points14 points 9 years ago* (19 children) | Copy Link

I gotta say, after seeing years of "self improvement" like this from TRP I have zero sympathy for your plight here.

"Single mothers are delinquent sub human scum"

RPers upvote a bunch of hateful old timey quotes to "prevent oneitis"

The sad lesson of life is that you treat a girl with respect, and the next guy comes along and he's banging the hell out of her.

Nature intended women to be our slaves; . . . they are our property, we are not theirs. They belong to us, just as a tree that bears fruit belongs to the gardener.

What a mad idea to demand equality for women! . . . Women are nothing but machines for producing children. Napoleon Bonaparte

Women are the decorative sex. They never have anything to say, but they say it charmingly.

To be popular with women, be sure never mention the fact that women as a class are less rational and hence inferior to men. To be unpopular with women, respect their minds.

A man of sense only trifles with them, plays with them, humours and flatters them, as he does with a sprightly and forward child; but he neither consults them about, nor trusts them with, serious matters.

She wavers, she hesitates; in a word, she is a woman.

Beauty is the wisdom of women. Wisdom is the beauty of men.

Of what use is independence to a woman, if she is - all alone?

Woman: a biped with two hands, two feet, two breasts, two eyes and two faces.

I will not say that women have no character, rather, they have a new one every day.

Even a fickle woman is loyal to one man - until she prefers another.

"Remember, men, we're fighting for this woman's honour; which is probably more than she ever did."

A woman without a man is like a garden without a fence.

Woman's virtue is man's greatest invention.

A woman sometimes feels pity for the sorrows that she causes without remorse.

No matter how much a woman loved a man, it would still give her a glow to see him commit suicide for her.

Women have no sympathy . . . And my experience of women is almost as large as Europe. And it is so intimate too. Women crave for being loved, not for loving. They scream at you for sympathy all day long, they are incapable of giving any in return for they cannot remember your affairs long enough to do so. - Florence Nightingdale

Women never love; rather they pity a man, mother him, delight in making him love them. Their tenderness is deepened by their remorse for being unable to love him.

Women for the most part do not love us. They do not choose a man because they love him, but because it pleases them to be loved by him.

Talk to me tenderly, tell me lies; I am a woman and time flies.

And it keeps going like that. TBP criticizes TRP for this kind of rhetoric, don't forget that.

This one was pretty badass tho

The god of death, the wind, the underworld, the ever-burning entrance to hell, the knife-edge, poison, serpent, and fire - women are all of these in one. The Ramayana

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So some posts/comments in TRP today:

Porn stars boyfriend beats her so bad she winds up in hospital; her fault for “being irresponsible” https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/5ls3yn/you_should_be_more_careful_is_not_victim_blaming/dbxzx8o/

Women in their 20s go to the gym half naked (I’d like to see that gym that actually lets women work out literally “half naked”); she is being “provocative” and has no right to say men should not ogle her https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/5lny9x/realizing_women_are_nothing_more_than_attention/dby1v0r/

Women exercising their right to decide who they want to spend time with is “using it as a stop to keep guys in their place” – that place being denied the chance to fuck her – oh and of course feminists and SJWs are responsible for putting this thought in her head https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/5lmwd5/americas_top_sex_crimes_expert_says_half_of_rape/dbxwys8/

“Actually everyone in law enforcement does understand that the vast majority of sexual offense reports are false, but few will say so.” Must be why he posts nothing to back up this statement. https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/5lmwd5/americas_top_sex_crimes_expert_says_half_of_rape/dbxxxrq/

These are all just from TODAY.

Can you link me to some recent TBP posts or comments that say something to effect of:

Man assaulted by gf/wife; his fault for being “irresponsible.”

Men driving nice cars are being provocative and flaunting their money—they really can’t complain when they end up with a gold digger.

Men exercising the right to decide who they want to spend their time with is preventing women from their rightful place of his provisioning, and the patriarchy and tradcons are responsible for this!

“Actually everyone knows that all men are rapists, but few will say so. Even though I have nothing to back that up.”

If you can, I stand corrected.

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[–]shogunofsarcasmI do what I want5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (60 children) | Copy Link

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[–]disposable_pants[S] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Here's an example of one of those "explanations":

Someone that uses others as their support in life and then turns around and mocks them for the care and support they gave isn't an alpha. They're pathetic.

First, it's a straw man. Who on TRP is receiving help (From TRP? It's not even clear.) and then mocking that same group? Or is it supposed to be that red pillers are receiving help from women (What help? When?) and then mocking them? TRP isn't mocking anyone who's helped them; the OP of that post just made up a feature of TRP in order to insult it.

Second, it's still hate no matter what you think of it. If I said "Jews use others as their support in life and then turn around and mock them -- they're pathetic", obviously that would be hate.

Is RP a hate sub?

As I've explained elsewhere in this thread, TRP has a purpose beyond hating on another group of people. TBP's only purpose is to hate.

[–]shogunofsarcasmI do what I want5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]disposable_pants[S] -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Help from women via sex, love, cleaning the house, etc.

Sex and love are about mutual attraction. No one is "helping" a man by shrugging her shoulders and sighing "I guess I'll sleep with you, just to help you out a bit". A woman is not doing a man a favor simply by gracing him with her presence.

mocking via negging/calling women children/saying they are too stupid to be in charge

The clear intention of posts like "women are children" is to learn how to interact with women in a way women like. You can disagree with the methods, but the intention is to become someone women are attracted to.

And where is TRP mocking the genuinely nice things women do for men? They mock the stupid things women do, much like men and women have mocked each others' stupid tendencies throughout recorded history.

You found a crazy exaggerated post

That's still on the front page of TBP after a couple of days, that's sitting around +90, that has plenty of highly-upvoted comments agreeing with the OP... how is it exaggerated again? This is mainstream stuff on TBP.

You took it too seriously

"It's just a prank, bro!"

[–]shogunofsarcasmI do what I want6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Sex and love are about mutual attraction. No one is "helping" a man by shrugging her shoulders and sighing "I guess I'll sleep with you, just to help you out a bit". A woman is not doing a man a favor simply by gracing him with her presence.

It was exaggerated, but RP constantly says women "settle" so the post is going off of that

The clear intention of posts like "women are children" is to learn how to interact with women in a way women like. You can disagree with the methods, but the intention is to become someone women are attracted to.

The women in BP find that acting like they are children is sexist. They want to be treated as adults, because they are adults. To BP this is awful and hateful advice, so it is consistently mocked as such. Thus the exaggeration.

They mock the stupid things women do, much like men and women have mocked each others' stupid tendencies throughout recorded history.

Oh here is a good example why BP isn't a hate sub according to you. It thinks the RP tenets are stupid and wants to mock them

That's still on the front page of TBP after a couple of days, that's sitting around +90, that has plenty of highly-upvoted comments agreeing with the OP... how is it exaggerated again? This is mainstream stuff on TBP.

Because it is funny, relatable, and exaggerated?

[–]disposable_pants[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

It was exaggerated, but RP constantly says women "settle" so the post is going off of that

Nothing in that post states or implies anything about settling. You're reading into it what you want to believe, not what's actually written.

It thinks the RP tenets are stupid and wants to mock them

Mocking can be hateful, as it clearly is in this case. Good indicators are when the mocking serves no constructive purpose, is laden with insults, and doesn't accurately reflect the behaviors/ideas of the person being mocked. The post in question checks all three boxes.

Because it is funny, relatable, and exaggerated?

There's exactly one small attempt at humor in this post. It's relatable to almost no one, because almost no one on TBP has ever actually met a red piller, and most blue pillers don't even read TRP. It's mainstream TBP because it's hate and TBP is a hate sub.

[–]shogunofsarcasmI do what I want2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Nothing in that post states or implies anything about settling. You're reading into it what you want to believe, not what's actually written.

You said this earlier:

No one is "helping" a man by shrugging her shoulders and sighing "I guess I'll sleep with you, just to help you out a bit". A woman is not doing a man a favor simply by gracing him with her presence.

RP says women settle for partners , the post says she doesn't want to help men who mock her, help in this way is an exaggerated way to say sleep with.

Mocking can be hateful, as it clearly is in this case. Good indicators are when the mocking serves no constructive purpose, is laden with insults, and doesn't accurately reflect the behaviors/ideas of the person being mocked. The post in question checks all three boxes.

Constructive - shows BP how unreasonable RP can be

Insults- that is what mocking is, a type of insult

doesn't accurately reflect the behaviors/ideas of the person being mocked - except it does reflect the behaviours of some of RP

Now let's look at RP...it says all women act like children which is an insult, solves nothing, and does not reflect the behaviour of women as a whole. Sounds like it checks all your boxes for a hate group.

There's exactly one small attempt at humor in this post. It's relatable to almost no one, because almost no one on TBP has ever actually met a red piller, and most blue pillers don't even read TRP. It's mainstream TBP because it's hate and TBP is a hate sub.

It was funny to me, relatable to people who have met RP personalities, one comment said it sounded like her ex, and satire. TBP is full of links to RP, they read it, often.

RP is a hate sub

[–]disposable_pants[S] -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Constructive - shows BP how unreasonable RP can be

Which does... what, exactly? They certainly aren't trying to appeal to anyone on the fence, so what exactly are they trying to do? Who are they appealing to?

Insults- that is what mocking is, a type of insult

"Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back" is mocking. "You are such a smug piece of shit, all you do is congratulate your worthless self for not pissing yourself twice on the way down to get your tendies, why don't you deport your pathetic ass back to Dumbfuckistan" is hate. It's the quantity and harshness of insults that matters.

doesn't accurately reflect the behaviors/ideas of the person being mocked - except it does reflect the behaviours of some of RP

"Nuh-uh" isn't an argument.

Now let's look at RP...it says all women act like children which is an insult, solves nothing, and does not reflect the behaviour of women as a whole. Sounds like it checks all your boxes for a hate group.

"But TRP does it too!" is just whataboutism, and you don't have a leg to stand on if you're arguing that TBP isn't hate. And it's ridiculous to claim TRP "solves nothing" when there are countless self-improvement posts on the front page every day.

[–]shogunofsarcasm0 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Which does... what, exactly? They certainly aren't trying to appeal to anyone on the fence, so what exactly are they trying to do? Who are they appealing to?

They have a link to the ex rp subreddit but mostly they are there to show what they view as toxic ideas and opinions to other people. It is similar to how John Stewart shows things he thinks are ridiculous, similar to how John Oliver parodies things he doesn't like.

"Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back" is mocking. "You are such a smug piece of shit, all you do is congratulate your worthless self for not pissing yourself twice on the way down to get your tendies, why don't you deport your pathetic ass back to Dumbfuckistan" is hate. It's the quantity and harshness of insults that matters.

But the second one is so unreasonable it is funny. It is exaggerated. That is what you are missing.

"Nuh-uh" isn't an argument.

I disagree that the post you linked is not an accurate reflection of things said in RP, is that better? I have seen posts in RP that are similar. I have seen RP guys here say things that are similar.

And it's ridiculous to claim TRP "solves nothing" when there are countless self-improvement posts on the front page every day.

Not my claim. I said things like calling all women children solves nothing and is hate.

But thank you for all your definitions of hate that mean BP isn't hate and thank you for not really understanding satire

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[–]purpleppparmchair evo psych2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]disposable_pants[S] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

People make nasty generalizations about Democrats, Republicans, feminists, etc. all the time and it's not generally considered 'hate' the same way that generalizations about gays, Catholics, etc. are.

Yet the groups who make those generalizations about their opponents are doing so to serve their primary purpose. If a Democrat makes a generalization about Republicans, the goal is to serve the purpose of advancing X, Y, and Z Democratic ideas.

For hate groups, the purpose is hate. That's all. And that's what TBP is -- a sub whose primary purpose (if not sole purpose) is to hate other people.

I'm skeptical of the 'hate' accusations in general but I think the difference probably lies in attacking people with shared ideology vs people with common traits that can be identified for discrimination.

As you point out, religion is a "shared ideology" -- Catholics have been targeted by hate groups before, for example, and outside of their beliefs Catholics are about as diverse a religion as there is out there.

What do you mean by "I'm skeptical of the hate concept in general"?

[–]purpleppparmchair evo psych2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]disposable_pants[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

White supremacist groups think they advance X, Y, Z ideas but they're still labelled as hate groups.

But people don't join the Klan because they want to advance X, Y, and Z, or because the group makes an annual donation to the SPCA. They join because they hate minorities. That's the purpose of the group's existence; that's why everyone is there. The other stuff is just window dressing.

A thought experiment: Imagine starting a KKK chapter where the focus was only X, Y, and Z and any hatred of minorities was expressly prohibited. How long would that last? Now compare that hypothetical Klan chapter to another hypothetical chapter that focuses exclusively on hating minorities without a word about X, Y, or Z. Which chapter lasts longer, or has more success within the KKK?

Accusations of hate don't usually carry much weight to me. I usually see 'hate speech' as just speech and 'hate crime' as just crime.

Fair enough. The purpose of this post isn't quite so weighty; it's just to demonstrate that "it's just satire, bro" is a fiction, and hopefully get a few blue pillers to at least consider why they so strongly hate people they've never even met.

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I'm saying that hating someone for their thoughts -- thoughts expressed in the privacy afforded by internet anonymity -- isn't a good idea.

Right, so you are saying people who post in TRP shouldn't be held to what they say because it's anonymous. Is that an admission that most of it is circle jerking and made-up field reports?

Thought crime, GTFOH. You are not entitled to be free of criticism of your thoughts and ideas. If you can't handle it, stop posting on a public forum and circle jerk in private with your friends.

And yeah, bad thoughts turn into bad actions. I defend your right to express those bad thoughts as long as they don't openly incite bad behavior but don't think others don't have a right to call you and others out on it.

Again, no one on TBP has any clue what red pillers' "actions" are.

They are literally taking posts right from TRP that more often than not the OP is literally describing their actions using RP concepts. So once again unless your argument is that TRP posts are BS, I'm not sure how you can't write this with a straight face.

How is that any different than hating Catholics (who one might disagree with on religious grounds) or communists (who one might disagree with one political grounds)?

Are you somehow under the impression that Catholics and communists are/have not been regularly criticized for their beliefs and actions? Lol

[–]disposable_pants[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Right, so you are saying people who post in TRP shouldn't be held to what they say because it's anonymous.

They absolutely shouldn't be hated for it. Imagine all the private thoughts you have throughout the day. Thoughts you might entertain, but would certainly never say in public and would never act on. Would it be fair for someone to hate you solely because of what you might think? That's downright Orwellian. It's demanding that people toe the party lines at all times, even in private.

You are not entitled to be free of criticism of your thoughts and ideas.

Criticism is a rational response, a counterargument. Hate is just emotion, nothing more than "I really don't like you and you are evil". Criticism is great, but that's not what TBP is.

And yeah, bad thoughts turn into bad actions.

Do you do everything you think about doing? If you don't, I don't see how you can argue that "bad thoughts turn into bad actions".

So once again unless your argument is that TRP posts are BS, I'm not sure how you can't write this with a straight face.

Would you agree that a person's first-hand account of a situation might not always contain 100% of relevant information about it? Maybe they aren't perfect observers, or are limited writers, or are allowing their own biases to shape their perceptions and memories of experiences.

Would you also agree that someone can embellish a story a bit, or perhaps omit an unflattering detail, or maybe just condense a few parts to make a more coherent story, without making their account "BS"? If I describe a trip to the grocery store to you and leave out the part where I stopped at the ATM, is my story "BS"? You're assuming that stuff you read on TRP must be either 100% true or 100% false, but there are a lot of possibilities in between.

Are you somehow under the impression that Catholics and communists are/have not been regularly criticized for their beliefs and actions?

That's not at all what I was getting at; I don't know where you're coming from here.

[–]hiilive 0 points0 points0 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Did you read the post you've linked to in your OP? It is literally a list of actions and morals found in TRP. If someone wrote a list of 8 concepts within communism or Catholisism they found repulsive or pathetic, then no, that's not hate. If you can't tell the difference, I really don't know what to say to you. I suppose if we use hate only to mean "strongly disliking", then yes, of course it's hate. In which case, we've all said all along that TBP is a "hate sub" since it only exists as a negative response to TRP. It's not "strong, pure hatred against people they've never met" though. It's a deeply rooted issue with the morals, ideas and actions promoted by RPers. It's not like it's baseless. And just to be clear, I'm not condoning the language of the person in the post you've linked to, I'm just saying that you can't use "if you change it for blacks, it would be hate" in this context.

[–]disposable_pants[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]SmeggingRightGot flair? Hell yeah![🍰] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]disposable_pants[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Why is it wrong to hate shitty behavior?

How are you so comfortable with blind hatred of people you've never met? Doesn't that raise even a tiny red flag somewhere in the back of your mind?

You can't substitute gays or Jews etc because that post was about behavior and not about groups of people based on sexuality, religion or racial background.

The post is about hating TRP ideas; it cannot be about behavior because practically no one on TBP has ever met a red piller. It's no different than a Republican railing against "freeloaders living off my taxpayer dollars" who's never met a person who needs SNAP benefits to feed their family. They are using their hate to create imaginary scenarios about how those people must behave instead of observing how they actually behave and working from there.

And hatred based on religion is nothing more than hatred based on ideological differences. Anti-Catholic hate groups exist, and there's nothing unifying Catholics other than adherence to the same ideas.

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alright you want me to seriously explain to you why each of those things is different than mocking the redpill?

blacks

This is a race of people. They did not chose to be born black nor do they advocate anything hurtful to others simply by nature of being black. If you showed me a subreddit full of black people talking about how white people are "mentally children" and worthy of abuse then I would mock them too.

fatties

Many people do not "chose" to be fat because genetic and dietary habbits are gotten from your parents for the most part and, again, nor do they advocate anything hurtful to others by nature of being fat. If you showed me a subreddit full of fat people who were saying how stupid and unhealthy it is to be thin I would enjoy mocking them too.

fratboys

Who the fuck cares about this one? I literally make fun of fratboys every day and I was in one.

gays

This sexual orientation. They did not chose to be born gay nor do they advocate anything hurtful to others by nature of being gay. If you showed me a subreddit where gay people talked about how straight people were incapable of loving anyone than I would mock them too.

Red pillers

You are not born TRP. TRP preaches that emotional abuse is the only way to maintain a relationship as well as a bunch of other stupid ideas. I mock ideas, not identities.

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Anyone who is a part of this should ask themselves how they can direct such strong, pure hatred against people they've never met.

Yes. That's exactly why TBP exists.

We simply don't understand how TRPs can be so angry at people (women) they've never met. Yeah some chick might have hurt your fragile ego, but turning to a conspiracy theory subreddit for help that tells you that women are all just little children that need to be kept on a short leash that want to get raped by alpha men is why you get made fun off by TBP.

It's not hate directed at random people they've never met. It's hate directed at people that should have been aborted. People that think that they are superior for being angsty edgelords. People that think that spreading harmful stereotypes about women isn't bad, but necessary. People that represent all that's bad about society. People that are the reason why we had to introduce feminism in the first place.

As an analogy lets use South Africa a short time after Apartheid. TRP are white people that don't want to "give away their rights" by letting blacks be on the same level as them and constantly talk shit about them in the form of biotruths. "but we don't hate blacks. You can't call us racists. Blacks are simply naturally criminals. It's just evolution and they evolved black skin so that they can steal better. Just look at those thugs over there. ABALT"

TBP are black people and white people that aren't racist shitheads. It's not that they don't want to accept the truth. It's just that they see through the bullshit and see that it's just a few pathetic old white people that are afraid of change. If they critize them it's not hate directed at some random strangers, it's hate directed at people that deserve it.

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Title	TBP is a hate sub: An example
Author	disposable_pants
Upvotes	19
Comments	312
Date	January 2, 2017 9:02 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/5lkdjc/tbp_is_a_hate_sub_an_example/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/tbp-is-a-hate-sub-an-example.270875 https://theredarchive.com/post/270875

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