What's with the problem with complaining?

Salty-Bastard · 2018-12-11T05:54:05+00:00

Deconstruction of a complaint is a healthy way to communicate in a relationship, because lets face it, it's never about "doing the dishes".

hammerhaunts · 2018-12-11T05:44:46+00:00

The problem is with stupid complaints, because sometimes they get results.

gasparddelanuit · 2018-12-11T11:29:57+00:00

A complaint does not necessarily mean an expectation of compliance, although it can come with that expectation.

A complaint is an expression of dissatisfaction or discontent, but some people seem to think that any form of criticism is a complaint, which is simply not the case. One can be critical without personally being dissatisfied or discontent.

In the context of a forum like this, I think the purpose of a complaint is to vent, as well as seek understanding, answers and sympathy from others.

Engaging with complaints or being critical of them does not mean that a person feels they have to comply with them. Having conversations about complaints or anything else is how people share and receive different points of view. If there are justified criticisms of a complaint, I think it is important that these are pointed out, to avoid uncritical thinking, potentially flawed thinking and the dominance of one self-serving perspective. On a debate forum like this, engaging with complaints in this manner is especially appropriate.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2018-12-11T13:20:35+00:00

Why automatically feel you have to comply with other's complaints?

Presumably you're asking why men automatically feel like they have to comply with women's complaints. The answer is traditional gender norms, which men are socialized into both by other men and women, teach men that their role is to soothe the hurts experienced by women, to protect women, to provide for women, and that their 'real manhood' is contingent upon them doing so.

What happens if you don't comply?

Social emasculation. Losing your "real manhood." Which is a status that women (among other parties) are able to dispense or revoke.

Not to mention, you can become thought of as an "enemy of women," which makes you exceedingly unpopular among both men and women. Men whom are not chivalrous (i.e. men who deny women privileged/benevolently sexist treatment) are perceived as woman-haters.

Does complaining have a purpose?

To communicate problems with the state of affairs, and frequently to enlist other people's aid in fixing them. This latter part is the issue, because many women expect all the heavy lifting in fixing their problems to be done by men.

What's the better alternative to complaining?

In and of itself, mere complaining isn't the issue. The issue is that when women complain they tend to be asserting female privilege (i.e. demanding men come to help them).

You don't get this because you've already prejudged the issue as relating to "the deterioration of male dominance." But the reality is that traditional gender roles give women a kind of power over men that men don't have over women (we can't socially defeminize women because our society sees femininity as biologically innate rather than an earned social status). When women complain and use damselling tactics and other things like that against men, they're relying on this form of social power.

It isn't about preventing you from being equal. Its about preventing you from controlling us.

Now, as for the better alternative to complaining (or more accurately, complaints that demand men come to your rescue), the alternative is to use your own agency to change the status quo.

Million-Suns · 2018-12-11T14:27:09+00:00

OP how would you feel if one total stranger suddenly came to you in the street and complained to you that his electric portal is malfunctioning and then angrily demanded and insisted that YOU fixed it?

You'd be like : WTF ???

That's exactly how men feel when their partner nags or complains. I mean you supposedly date/marry an independent, well functioning adult.

Yet, you're not her daddy, not her repairman. It might be your job as her partner to emotionally support her, but hell not your job to fix things in her stead. What would she do if she was living alone? Nags herself? I don't think so.

Nagging becomes by default an unacceptable behavior that you would not inflict to yourself, maybe not even a stranger, but somehow thinks it's perfectly OK to inflict it to your SO. And people still wonder why nagging is wrong?

firewatchersdaughter · 2018-12-11T15:02:58+00:00

Here’s what complaining looked like in my last relationship:

-“You bought me daisies? How could you have dated me for so long and not know that I don’t like these? Do you even know me? I’m concerned what this means for us.

-Rented a car on the trip to Canada I paid for. Still getting used to the brakes which were a little more touchy than my car. “Why are you braking so harshly? Be gentle!” I asked if she would prefer to drive. “No, just drive better!”

-Same Trip. She was upset with me because I didn’t plan enough time for us to do a hike she was looking forward to. Only reason we couldn’t do it was because she wanted to do a two hour hot stone massage (which I paid for).

-Bought Sees chocolates to share with us and her parents. I wanted a large variety to sample so I bought a bunch of flavors in sets of three. She got really mad when she saw this because she couldn’t try one without feeling guilty because there wasn’t enough of every flavor for every person. This one got me slapped.

-Told me that bodies were never that important to her, but she was beginning to realize that they actually were. Told me she wanted to see me get jacked. Proceeded to send me a bunch of pictures of male instagram models. I’m not out of shape, but I certainly don’t look like that. Went on to say she really liked me, and didn’t want to break up without giving me a chance to look like that.

-Told me later that week that rather than going out together for our usual date, she wanted me to spend the time in the gym.

-Told me that while she initially likes that I was a sensitive person, it had become annoying to her, and she didn’t want me to be “so weepy at things” (Had just finished crying during the movie “Me before you”)

-Didn’t like one of my friends and was mad that I talked to him

-Got upset that another a guy I know had the audacity to ask her out. He’s a bit awkward, but a good guy. Didn’t know we were dating and decided to ask her out. She was totally offended that he even thought he had a chance with her. “Like I could have professional quarterbacks” she said.

-Had the audacity to challenge her once (she had recently complained that I apologized too much, so I decided to speak up gently). Was told I was being super rude. “How could you even say that”.

-Birthdays were a big deal for her. I literally bought her 6 different gifts. Made reservations at a five star restaurant, and she complained that she thought the place was too boring and unoriginal. “Do you even know me? How could you do this on my birthday? You know this is important to me.”

-Traveled to visit her family. I was tired and decided to go to bed a bit early (11pm). Was told that it was bad that I didn’t want to spend time with her family, and that they might be getting the idea that I didn’t like them. “Not your best strategy” she said.

-Told me she wanted me to buy a house. We went house shopping together, and discussed what our needs would be for the place. (Guess who’s needs always had priority..) Bought the place, and couldn’t move in until it was painted. She wanted it professionally painted, not just something I did. Picked the paint and carpet to match, had it professionally done. Week later when it was time to move in she broke up with me because she didn’t want to get tied down.

-After she broke up with me, she told me if I started dating anyone else, we could never get back together.

I could go on and on. I literally have years worth of stories like this with her. So the idea that men not liking complaining because it means we want to control women is honestly laughable. Her complaining was a manipulation tactic to keep me on edge because she was always “right on the cusp of leaving”. She used this to control me.

Mr_White119811 · 2018-12-11T15:19:35+00:00

What's the better alternative to complaining?

Taking action. Lets take for example when I was made redundant from a job. Did I complain, no. Did I moan to friends, no. Did I bother people with the fact that I chose a company to work at that did not make a profit, no.

I carried on with life and found a new job.

What good would complaining have done. Is there some god of complainers out there, that fixes complaints? no.

[deleted] · 2018-12-11T12:04:01+00:00

Because women never stop complaining and eventually see it as a way to get what they want if the man capitulates to it.

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[deleted] · 2018-12-11T06:34:07+00:00

Complaints like what?

RedLetterWord · 2018-12-11T08:21:01+00:00

To me complaints are bothering when a person insists on someone else to fix a problem at hand, regardless of whom would be responsible for the problem in the first place.

In gender relations, the typical complaint exchange tends to be more woman to man than man to woman. I'm certain you know a man who complains ceaselessly that you can point to, but hope we can at least agree that the majority of the complaining in relationships is done by women.

Why automatically feel you have to comply with other's complaints?

Certainly as was the case for me, I believe men are taught from a very early age to be accountable for their problems, and solvers of the problems of others, and complaining about that is often ignored and even occasionally ridiculed (especially so by men to men).

However, men love women and believe that by listening and attempting to fix complaints will earn respect and affections with women. That is why we listen and take our womens' complaints seriously. It is, as many a post on TRP says, a bad sexual strategy on our part.

What happens if you don't comply?

My snark response is: see only every post on reddit with the term "choreplay" in it.

My real thoughts on it are it depends on the Red-Pill'ed-ness of the man being complained to. TRP would treat a complaint as a shit test, and deal with it accordingly. Depending on the severity of the complaint, that could be witty or sexy banter back, or it could be a nuclear response. The Bluer the person, the more likely that they will be to comply. For real, see "happy wife, happy life".

Does complaining have a purpose?

Complaining in general is a passive way to effect change. I think the argument is not "does it have a purpose", but rather, is it good at affecting its purpose? I would say that other avenues are better.

I would posit this question to you in regards to your belief that is it related to the deterioration of male dominance: Do you think that complaining is an effective tool for change? If so, do you think that it is more effective than taking action to fix the problem, even if you are not responsible?

What's the better alternative to complaining?

"Be the change you wish to see in the world." -Mahatma Gandhi

Autistic_Reeeeeeeeee · 2018-12-11T09:28:20+00:00

Why automatically feel you have to comply with other's complaints?

I don't

What happens if you don't comply?

Doesn't matter

Does complaining have a purpose?

Usually looking for a solution. Or attention.

What's the better alternative to complaining?

Being intelligent enough to find your own solutions to problems.

peterlongc · 2018-12-11T10:09:03+00:00

The big thing, particularly in context of this place, is apparent refusal to take responsibility seen through constant finger pointing. It's particularly bad when what's pointed at is what you value the most (though you don't want to admit that).

That's not very grown up, that doesn't solve problems, it doesn't seem to make things any better (quite the opposite oftentimes)

____

It's true that 'complaints' can be part of a path towards understanding, but when self-understanding is lacking then understanding others, particularly if it involves nothing but criticism with no appreciation, isn't going to help you much.

In short: whining generally doesn't help anything and certainly the leader doesn't ever whine, women like leaders

edit: I'll add, to answer a question of yours: If you feel you must express a negative about another then it is always best that you show to them you can also understand that they too are reasonable people, with reasonable interests, in an imperfect situation... Do that as overtly as possible first, then try to help them see their blind spots. People can be appreciative of helpful advice (criticism) then

officerkondo · 2018-12-11T14:32:39+00:00

Why automatically feel you have to comply with other's complaints?

I don't. It matters who is complaining and the subject of the complaint.

What happens if you don't comply?

It depends on the factors above. The consequences of a complaint from one of my clients has more consequences than the complaint of some stranger on the street.

Does complaining have a purpose?

The usual purpose of complaining is impotent emotional release, which I have no use for.

What's the better alternative to complaining?

Fixing the problem instead of talking about the problem. Most people are more interested in assigning blame and having an emotional release than getting things done.

Workaholico · 2018-12-11T15:43:59+00:00

What's with the problem with complaining?

Constructive complaining? None. Constant non constructive complaining? Many.

The idea of not listening and continuing to do it anyway doesn't seem to occur to men.

We have a "one thing at a time" brain. We cannot hear and do something else. We are obliged to stop whatever we doing to hear you or you will nag us even more. And if it is a small thing. It bothers us.

That is part of nature. Not even young boys can avoid it. Is it that hard to understand?

My theory is that it's related to deterioration of male dominance.

Listen. If such was the case, men would hate to expose themselves to places they do not dominate or are constantly being complained at. Yet we play games that do exactly that. Online games. And in grand quantity. Please stop assuming men strife for dominance. We strif for competitiveness. Not dominance. A hierarchical society to us is hell. But a free market is a dream.

Why automatically feel you have to comply with other's complaints?

Because we have to. Someone has to do the job. And if we cannot do it. Then to hear about it is just plain torture to us. Stillness and silence is a must for us (look at Buddhists).

What happens if you don't comply?

To constructive complains? I lose a chance to improve.

To most women's complains? I lose societal and mental peace.

What's the better alternative to complaining?

There is none. The problem is in the how and how often you do it.

If you complain about only important things in a constructive manner and in a good timing. Well... you are quite good.

For example. If my sister instead of complaining to me about my chicken coop when I got home after 14h of work/study, while writing my thesis, talking about how mad the chickens made her. Instead just said to me to raise the coop's fence in the morning because they are escaping and eating her shoes. It would be dandy, not irritating. Yet I had to hear 2hrs about how my precious chickens ruined her shoes. Chickens mind you, I raise because I cannot afford meat because I have been sustaining her for the last 2+ years. She stayed here for 2 days. And made hell for me in those 2 days.

whitetrashcarl · 2018-12-11T17:32:17+00:00

What’s the problem w a baby screaming? What logical objection do you have to the content of the speech?

darksoldierk · 2018-12-12T03:22:15+00:00

There is a difference between analysis and complaints. An analysis identifies and issue, discusses why it's an issue and makes recommendations. That is how man view things, that is how we view the world. This isn't a surprise to people, it's a very well known fact. That's why women will say things "I don't want you to give me a solution to my problem, I just want someone to listen to me". Men analyse, women complain.

Complaining is not analysis. Complaining is just finding a problem and not doing anything about it other than telling someone else. It's me telling you that your work is bad. Wouldn't that bother you? For someone to just say "your work is bad" or "this work sucks"? Isn't it more useful for that person to say WHY it's bad, and HOW to improve it?

Complaints are not an expectation of compliance. Complaints are a highlight of inefficiency. If you tell me that my cooking sucks, then I'll change my cooking, change the spices I use, I"ll take a class, or ask you to help if you think you are a good cook. You pointed something out, a weakness, and I need to improve it because progress is important.

It isn't about feelings, what it boils down to is that men strive for efficiency and effectiveness. In business, it's call "six sigma" and it's the single most effective method that exists. To accept that every process will always have inefficiencies, to identify those efficiencies, and to fix them. It isn't about feelings,.

The problem with women complaining is that they think that they can complain without intent. Complaining is inherently pointing out a weakness, risk or disadvantage. That is the definition. It's stupidity for someone to point out a risk without intending to do something about it. Women saying that they are complaining without intent is them saying "I'm choosing to be a stupid bitch". It's like if you point out that the suspended beams are about to fall on that man in the construction site, then continue walking by and act surprised when the beam actually falls and kills the man. It's just plain stupid, the expectation is that you warn the man, you tell the supervisor, you do SOMETHING to fix or mitigate the risk. If you don't, you are being wilfully stupid, and stupidity is difficult to respect.

abaxeron · 2018-12-12T13:36:51+00:00

Men seem so bothered with complaints of any kind.

Not of any kind; mostly from women. I have a very simple explanation - when women complain, they use a very distinct tone in their voice that is physically painful to listen to. I'm not exaggerating. I suspect most women know it. We learned of its effect when we were little and hate it ever since. Even reading an article about a woman complaining that air conditioning is sexist (i.e. without actually hearing her voice) sends us into a spiral of painful flashbacks.

Or really anything resembling "hamstering", looking at anything more than just at face value.

"Hamstering" is not deep thinking, it's dramatical over-justification. Example: "I cheated on him because of him, his behavior and attitude" - no, you cheated on him because you're an unloyal slut. Own it.

My theory is that it's related to deterioration of male dominance.

Of course it's your theory. Except it doesn't make sense without some intense hamstering.

What's the better alternative to complaining?

Communication like an adult.

I won't tell anything better than this video even if I try really hard.

EL_Miore · 2018-12-12T16:16:25+00:00

Because Men don't bitch about things. Complaining is a very effeminate action and Men who complain regularly are in a state of degeneration.

whatyoucallaflip · 2018-12-11T06:14:16+00:00

The idea of not listening and continuing to do it anyway doesn't seem to occur to men. Complaints means an expectation of compliance.

Mommy issues?

Gravel_Roads · 2018-12-11T13:32:16+00:00

I mean, these are dudes motivated by fear and thin-skin. If they hear a stranger on the street say "I hate the color blue" , they'll probably take it personally if they're wearing blue that day, and might even be reluctant to wear blue in the future. Because they assume everyone is talking specifically about them.

This isn't just a "man" thing, though. Women do it, too. It's just called "being a simpering conformist". Among dudes, they'll call themselves "alpha" because they think it makes themselves sound like they're at the height of social game, but mostly they just desperately are trying to look like everyone else, because they're insecure and think "by default" everyone will assume they're inferior. Being unremarkable and not doing anything to stand out (and thus warrant criticism) tends to be their only strategy, so they get extra butthurt if they also get called "boring", because it's essentially telling them they can't win. Which is kinda true.

It's probably also why the same types of dudes say they want submissive women. Submissive women don't have scary opinions, they just support and agree. Excellent as an emotional crutch for an insecure man who fears criticism or other people's opinions.

passepar2t · 2018-12-11T13:45:50+00:00

And women aren't bothered with complaints? O jezuz.

Mattcwu · 2018-12-13T02:30:04+00:00

Oooh, let's deconstruct this.

Men seem so bothered with complaints of any kind.
Not at all, there is a ton of complaining over at TRP. It seems to me like over half of the comments by Red-Pillers on this sub are complaints.

Men seem so bothered with complaints of any kind. Or really anything resembling "hamstering", looking at anything more than just at face value.

The Red Pill is a metaphor for seeing beyond face value. The core idea of TRP is to see beyond face value. They love to see beyond face value.

Understandable, reading into anything tends to lead to it's total deconstruction.

Well, that depends on your definition of "total deconstruction". I read into your post and haven't "totally deconstructed" it. Did you re-read into your post, did that "totally deconstruct" it?

My theory is that it's related to deterioration of male dominance.

That's not exactly your theory, Alice Paul made that argument before any of us were even born. And it was true when she made it.

In every scenario, groups gaining equal ground are essentially being told by the dominant to be quiet.
Not true, Asians are gaining ground in the NBA and are not told to keep quiet by African Americans.
Because those that are quiet can be easily overlooked.

I agree. I don't think it's possible to "totally deconstruct" that claim.

Really, it boils down to men being lead by their feelings and blaming everyone else for not being super into it when it's not necessary.
This seems like a subjective experience that you had and not an objective claim about reality.

Title	What's with the problem with complaining?
Author	Eartherry
Upvotes	5
Comments	143
Date	December 11, 2018 5:40 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/a5415k/whats_with_the_problem_with_complaining/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/whats-with-the-problem-with-complaining.258620 https://theredarchive.com/post/258620

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