what's your experience with the mental load?

87AudreyHorne · 2019-11-23T05:25:34+00:00

I dont really experience it in romantic relationships because I'm pretty easy going and normally we would either be staying at the guys place for a while, at my place, or go for a vacation so it's a little different than sharing a house and less pressure.

But I have examples based on personalities of different people I know. I think the hard part here is that some people take a huge burden of planning on themselves which isnt actually very important to those around them. E.g. I have a family member who is obsessed with planning meals ahead and her family never cares to tell her like day/hours in advance what they want to eat, but also dont expect her to do anything and can easily make something in 15 min once they figure it out. So this woman is freaking out and trying to come up with all kinds of systems and really it just isnt even necessary.

My other example is that some people are just more planner's than others. When I travel with my two friends, I am pretty spontaneous throughout the day but one of us likes to organize cleaning, cooking etc. And we listen to her and help in the way she requests. It's not a burden to her because she enjoys that, and it would be a burden if she requested us to start doing that kind of planning becuase it doesnt come naturally to us and we figure those things in the moment (the third friend probably never).

So I think the issue with the emotional labour concept is a) are you even expected to do this labour or you took it upon yourself and b) depending on the person, some love being the planners and others might be very burdened by it.

I hear people say that just making decisions is really difficult for them, I still cant wrap my head around that at all. It's really subjective I guess.

Texastentialism · 2019-11-23T04:30:33+00:00

I take on the mental load pretty naturally and always have. It's just kind of how my brain works. I'm always thinking two, three, four steps ahead, anticipating future issues and addressing them before they come up.

An example happened today actually. Feeding the dog is always my husband's job; he does it when they get back from their evening jog. Last night when he fed her, I heard him say "Oh, you're out of food now; I'll have to get you more tomorrow." I made a mental note to get food on my way home from work, because I knew there was no way he was going to remember. When I was at the checkout, dog food in hand, I got a text from my husband asking if I could pick up dog food because he forgot she was out until he went to feed her tonight.

I don't really mind it, and like I said it's kind of my natural inclination anyway, in and out of relationships. One thing that can be frustrating is that since I often fix problems before they arise or before other people even know they exist, I don't always get credit. I really enjoy feeling appreciated so that can hurt my feelings at times but I try not to let it bother me too much.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2019-11-23T05:15:26+00:00

Normally i dont cotton to concepts like this BUT...

Recently i believe i felt emotional labor noticably

Our elderly kitter was dying of kidney failure slowly for months, i was constantly trying to get her to eat, giving her medicine, taking her to the vet, giving her subcutaneous fluids and worrying. While my H helped me with the fluids, i did everything else, and he was constantly having all kinds of overt feelings about it and i couldnt Express or experience my own feelings because i was so busy taking care of everyone else emotionally and in actuality. It was quite draining

So while i definitely think its a thing, i think also that thats just life as the caregiver partner. All you can do is try to have some outlets and practice some kind of self care (something im not good at)

DubsPackage · 2019-11-23T08:39:28+00:00

Ok here's the skinny on that.

Some men /are/ passive followers but that's generally rare.

What more often happens is 2 things

First, the woman is neurotic, in her brain is every minutae of the house, everything has to be ordered according to her idiosyncracy, plates have to be stacked "just so," the toilet has to be down, the towels have to be folded in a certain way facing north, the ice cube tray has to be full, there can't be 2 ice cubes left in it, if you only have half a jar of coffee left, she knows and is thinking about it, she knows how many spare rolls of toilet paper there are.

She expects HIM to be just as neurotic, and he doesn't care, if he's out of coffee he'll just run to the store and get some. If the toilet seat is down, he'll put it up to pee, he doesn't demand that the toilet seat be pre-positioned to the correct peeing configuration.

If he tries to be proactive, she'll say "You're stacking the plates wrong." Everything he does is wrong because it has to be done according to the taste of the Overmind.

So he shrugs and says "Well ok then, I won't touch anything."

Then she complains, "You're not helping meeeeee."

I would help you if you'd fucking calm down. Don't tell me I'm using the wrong pot for spaghetti, I have my own taste and "idiosyncracy." I have my own way of folding the towels. I have my own way of (not) keeping track of coffee and toilet paper. I don't have to occupy my brain with "how many forks do we have." If we need forks, I'll run and get forks. I won't allow "forks" to occupy my mental real-estate. If you do, then that's your business, but it's unfair to whine to me about your "mental load."

I didn't give you a mental load, you gave yourself a mental load.

Fieryirishplease · 2019-11-23T10:12:43+00:00

I personally loathe that comic. My mother used to do that, expect mind reading and if it didn't happen then she grew quite irate. Growing up I knew I didn't wan't to do that, it never made her happy nor my father.

I myself am a rather anxious individual and I think far too many steps ahead. I know this is my burden to bear. I happily take on the "Emotional Labor" in my relationship. But I also don't feel like mental load or labor really exists. If I do it but my husband doesn't think of it then it was much more important to me than it was to him. Why get pissed off at him?? Best example is gifts and phone calls back home. I will suggest a gift or phone call if I think I have a good idea but if he doesn't follow through the onus is on him. My husband is a grown man who understands cause and effect.

Salty-Bastard · 2019-11-23T04:43:46+00:00

What was usually considered household management for a sahm is now called mental load for working moms.

ZealousidealIce2 · 2019-11-23T04:40:49+00:00

I have a hard time and don't know where to take a stand. Firstly, my mother was a single mom and working hard to maintain a house was difficult. I only realized the mental load after I lived on my own. I managed fine but it requires effort.

I now see my sister and her husband. Firstly, she complains that he doesn't do enough. Of course, when told he does 100% wrong. He uses the wrong pot. He cooked the wrong meal. He uses the wrong vacuum. The dusting is wrong. It's almost like she's his employer and he's the assitant.

Years later, when I went to help out my sister when brother in law got ill, I then realized all the mental load he carried that she seemingly ignored. He would always drive. On long road trips, he drove. We're talking about 4-5 hour road trips. My sister would sleep and he would drive. He would fix small things around the house like make shelves. Of course, that didn't count either. When I helped her do shopping, she would abuse my time and insist on getting clothes, perfumes etc.. All financial budgets were run by him. None of that counted at all.

In summary, yes women do take up some of that. Of course, they should mention it to their partners. The flip side is that they need to consider the work men put it in as mental labor. Finances, driving, the cars, home maintenance, home security, are usually done by men. Women don't care.

Overall, these comics are not helpful at all. They just feed the narrative men are the problem and women live with large babies.

lycheenme · 2019-11-23T14:28:30+00:00

This is a prime example of communication break down and differences between the average man and woman. From a personal perspective, my husband is very much the "well you should have asked" guy by default. But the other side of that is I can sometimes be almost smothering in my anticipatory helpfulness. "Can I help you with that? Are you sure? It doesn't look like you've got it, I can give you a hand." That's the male mental load.

The fix is to make a valiant effort to meet each other in the middle. Average Man could be a little more perceptive in minding the small disasters on the brink of occurring. Average Woman could take a deep breath and let some of the little things slide.

Kos_-_Omak · 2019-11-23T23:00:47+00:00

it's just another excuse for women to bitch and complain and pretend to be a martyr.

a woman complains because her husband didn't read her mind and do what she wanted him to do. guess what? if he did somehow manage to do it without being asked, she would just bitch that he did it the wrong way. or bitch that he didn't consult with her first or something.

it has nothing to do with "mental load" women just like to complain and feel sorry for themselves. the real problem is that their lives are too easy and they get bored and create this kind of bullshit drama. i mean Christ it's not hard to watch a kid and boil some pasta at the same time. if women are too inept to handle that they probably shouldn't have kids

angels-fan · 2019-11-23T04:51:40+00:00

Seems like one more way women pat themselves on the back about how amazing they are and just how hard their lives are.

I'm constantly thinking about work and work problems and shit because I'm the primary bread winner. Do I get any kind of mental load prize ribbon? No? Because I'm a fucking man and don't have a need to oppress myself.

philomexa · 2019-11-23T05:18:09+00:00

I don't understand the complaints. What they call mental load I consider a standard aspect of living. Like, of course I'm going to keep a mental tab on household and life management, that's the shit I care about. I don't expect my husband to keep track of our son's shoe size, when the car needs an oil change, or send out thank your letters, he doesn't care about that stuff but I do.

Frankly I also just like doing these admin tasks, it keeps the existential anxiety away.

It's never felt like a load, it's just life and someone has to do the work. I'm suited for it and my husband is not, I'm not about to begrudge him for our inclinations.

Truedemocracy5 · 2019-11-23T05:23:29+00:00

Mental load lmao. It’s self inflicted. Just like with drama women hate hate hate comfort. If the house is fine they’ll find something to do even if it’s pointless. If relationships are fine they’ll need to inject drama to entertain them.

Men care about what actually matters. Women don’t carry an extra mental load outside of stuff they add themselves

erman88 · 2019-11-23T05:34:57+00:00

That comic is pretty stupid. Why do women assume that they pretend everything is fine and if men don't read your mind correctly we're the problem? Just say "hey can you give me a hand with the kids for a minute"

problem solved.

pngmafia97 · 2019-11-23T06:26:33+00:00

My parents are Asian immigrants as well so this ideal of unequal mental loaf was somewhat less prevalent growing up. However, I’ve absolutely experienced it to the extreme with certain men. As of late I’ve realized that I cannot make a life with someone who lacks the organizational capacity and consideration for me to be a partner in the mental load.

It’s true — it’s exhausting. Making decisions is one of the most stressful things your brain can do. Decision fatigue: even if you haven’t heard of it, you know exactly what it feels like.

My current SO has severe ADD and is generally extremely absentminded. What’s more, his mother didn’t care much about cleanliness, so his standard of acceptable mess is unusually low, even for a man.

I’m not sure how men manage to be considerate in the workplace — any competent person working on a team will always be looking out for how they can help others, because they see the team as a cohesive unit with common goals. Men are perfectly willing to share the mental load professionally. But in the household, or around their moms/SOs, that ability often shuts off.

ZealousidealIce2 · 2019-11-23T14:02:34+00:00

I should also point out that men play a huge mental role in being the emotional rock of the family unit. They are expected to be calm, and goal-oriented during every crisis. I've felt it as the eldest male . I would often get 3am calls from girlfriends freaking out about exams. Shouldn't we be talking about this?

Sepean · 2019-11-23T14:22:09+00:00

The main reason is that women micromanage other people’s work. When a boss does that it is bad enough, it removes the sense of responsibility from the employees. When a woman does it in the home, where she doesn’t have authority, the result is that she just gets to do it herself.

And notice how this only happens with the laundry and cooking. Car service and whatnot, all the stuff she doesn’t try to micromanage, that doesn’t go on her “mental load”.

It’s just poor teamwork skills.

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OfSpock · 2019-11-23T06:01:01+00:00

My husband is largely hopeless at planning (probably ADHD) and calls me his rock. At least he is appreciative. I do have to draw boundaries though. I bought presents for his parents for a few years but I counted one year and I had 37 presents to buy so I gave it back to him. He usually buys flowers or scratch-its on the day because he never remembers, even if I do mention it a few times. When he needs a haircut/dr appointment he always tells me a few times before booking it himself. I refuse because when I do, he always has something else planned for that time. He would shove more onto me if he could.

metsaema · 2019-11-23T06:04:41+00:00

I don't like this concept. I think most of this is just poor communication, and this comic is rather simplistic. Everyone experience this sort of 'mental load', this can lead a lot of frustration while dealing with others because people don't really read minds nor have the same set of priorities... the whole thing of having a relationship is learning to adjust expectations and communicating, this type of discourse seems to naturalize this hardships as a gendered thing and don't really contribute to anyway to overcome this.

goatismycopilot · 2019-11-23T13:38:11+00:00

I have done the whole remembering birthdays and mother's day cards and oh I invited somebody over for dinner that you're cooking blah, blah, I am won't do it again. I think some women actively enjoy that process.

diffdedbed · 2019-11-23T16:35:35+00:00

Provided you didn't marry a manchild, a majority of this "emotional labor" is self inflected due to the more neurotic nature of women.

For example my wife struggles dealing with our daughter at times, but shes a pre-teen girl, arguing and being mad doesn't work on her. We have the daddy plan which is to simply tell her continued failure will result in me throwing out the issue. This is a straight forward solution, and what she forgets is that the first time we had this issue it worked very well, because my wife let me convince my daughter I was serious. Problem solved for years. Well its back but no we can't do that, so instead she gets frustrated and argues when the easy solution is just right there.

That comic is the straw man of the a manchild. The does only what he's asked etc.

And lets reverse this, and the man says he's doing all the emotional labor? We'd be looking for his pride flag. Men don't think on these terms, we don't get worked up as much about things we can't control in the moment. We don't stress about needing to do something 2 weeks away when there is nothing we can do with it currently.

ScaredIllustrator · 2019-11-23T17:20:42+00:00

theres a simple solution though, just ask lol. or make a routine splitting the workload fairly then ask.

women always creating problems out of nothing. what if it was the other way round?

flamingoinghome · 2019-11-23T17:47:27+00:00

Let's stop pretending this is a "romantic relationships" thing. It's not.

I had to carry the most of it not in any romantic relationship, but with my family. I've also had jobs where it was an issue.

It's exhausting.

2019-11-23T22:35:47+00:00

When my dad had a heart attack everyone in my my family fell to pieces, included my grown brother and my dad's wife. My husband and I took time off work to fly across the country and be with him, I dealt with all of his doctors, reassured him between surgeries, broke the lease on his house, took care of all his memberships and subscriptions, paid all of his bills, etc etc all while freaking the fuck out myself but being unable to show it. I was just expected to keep it all together and look after the rest of the family and it was really shit.

He's recovered now and pretty healthy, but it's also up to me to check all his prescriptions when they change, make his check up appointments, drive him to the appointments, make sure he's not damaging his pacemaker, etc, etc.

2019-11-24T03:48:24+00:00

This is a great discussion!

The "mental load" wasn't real to me until I had kids. Suddenly the housework grew exponentially and there just wasn't enough time to get it all done.

I don't actually mind being responsible for most of the housework. I work part time, he works full time. But yeah it does bother me that my husband is oblivious to the household chores. Seeing him walk past a pile of dishes while he excitedly tells me all about some exciting project he's working on...that drives me nuts.

He'll pitch in when I ask. But I wish he'd notice stuff on his own more often. Just like he wants me to take an interest in what he does all day, I'd like him to take an interest in my sphere.

werubim · 2019-11-24T05:29:21+00:00

this mental load concept is just pandering to women

lonelinessmademecave · 2019-11-24T22:34:40+00:00

Women who believe this are just unable to empathize with or read men.

You would be surprised how many women fail to recognize that men lead emotional lives just as rich as theirs. It’s utter solipsistic bullshit.

Women do tend prioritize things that guys don’t and vice versa. And then they get mad each other for not sharing their priorities. It’s a boring topic.

Title	what's your experience with the mental load?
Author	lycheenme
Upvotes	5
Comments	138
Date	November 23, 2019 4:22 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/e0cxu3/whats_your_experience_with_the_mental_load/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/whats-your-experience-with-the-mental-load.296314 https://theredarchive.com/post/296314

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