Dear feminists, please pick one: empowered or objectified?

bumblingbuck · 2014-08-31T18:27:52+00:00

The general TRP consensus is that feminism is incoherent - that is it doesn't make sense and isn't consistent as a way of thinking. It's inherently contradictory.

Related observation:

I recently finished university. The undergrads had a Facebook page for the undergrads to post student life crap, events, gossip, etc. It's mostly a pain to bother reading it, but occasionally it is entertaining. A new fall semester is starting. Parents and freshman everywhere on campus. Anyway, cue the "creep" and "old man" shaming. A relatively fit undergrad (7.5 / 10) posted something like this:

Any of you gals noticing a lot of creepy middle-aged men on campus? It's totally gross. Felt so uncomfortable going to Yoga today!!

She included a selfie of her in her yoga outfit. Tights, cleavage, make up.

Cue the hamster support, many "liked" posts about how we need to change male rape / objectification culture. Then slowly a trickle of guys (alphas and betas) telling the girl off, teasing her about her outlook. Of course every guy who posted against her is dismissed as a loser. One or two incoherent white knights. Then finally another woman, (very attractive) posted (again paraphrasing):

You're full of shit and need to get over yourself. My husband? Father to three kids? He's earned the right to show up like an awkward, chubby 40 year old man to drop my kids off. If you're comfortable dressing like that for my son and his friends, you take the middle-aged men along with that sweetheart.

Cue pandemonium, upvotes, feminist solidarity bullshit. But it was real TRP truth from an apparently reasonable older woman and these young girls lost it.

tl:dr Young hamster dresses skanky for the gym, gets ogled men on campus. Calls out the middle-aged guys for staring/leering. Gets owned by middle-aged woman whose kids were starting uni that day. Sensible female perspective is dismissed. Collective group mega-hamster.

swimtaculariousness · 2014-08-31T16:59:57+00:00

They want to dress like skanks for attention but they only want the attention of men whom they find attractive. If you're ugly, it's objectification. If you're hot, its flattering.

You can't eat your cake and have it too--unless you're a woman. Then you're entitled to it, goddammit!

notseriouslyserious · 2014-08-31T16:46:32+00:00

Why pick when you can have both

Jooceyjooce · 2014-08-31T18:54:32+00:00

To a woman, the only thing worse than being sexually objectified, is not being sexually objectified.

Denswend · 2014-08-31T18:32:15+00:00

Oh God. I recently had a foray on /r/Feminism due to my desire to wish to see how they react to Rotherham rape scandal in which over 1,400 British (white) women were raped and abused. Crickets. I submitted it 22 hours ago and it had 17 upvotes. "Spiderman as the new Spiderwoman" was submitted 17 hours ago and it has 73 upvotes and a discussion within.

If that doesn't show you that feminism in first world is a joke at best, cancer at worst, then nothing will. So I'm going to copy paste what I wrote from there:

That argument would make sense, had it not been for the reality. Male power fantasy is female sexual fantasy. To look at that, you only need to look at women erotica (which I would argue, explains pretty well what women consider sexual). Then compare it to the male power fantasy. Staggering differences. The reason for erotica being specially chosen is because erotica is designed to evoke a female sexual response. Men in those eroticas (like Cullen, or Gray) are often assertive, dominating, and often uncaring of the women they "court" - exhibiting fully Dark Triad and rapey tendancies. This can lead one to theorize that male power fantasy is just a form of female sexual fantasy as women and men are attracted to different spectrum of modes of behaviour and looks.

Then there is the question of why women willingly sexualize and objectify themselves. There is not one Playboy girl who is showing off her body against her own will, and the trend continues in feminist "slut walks" which are essentially objectification of themselves under the guise of empowerment. To deny a woman her body is to slut shame her, but to accept her body is to sexualize her. To women, her own sexuality is the closest thing to her own power fantasy. Fiction like Twilight and 50SoG only further proves that, as it is female written and female targeted.

Male power fantasy is female sexual fantasy, while a female power fantasy is male sexual fantasy. The fact that there is a huge discrepancy between the two is due to innate gender differences that may or may not be further tempered by the cultural gender roles. Avengers, to go further with the pop culture, who are male pose in dominant, assertive, and utterly masculine way as to show off their bulging muscles - all this evokes emotional reaction not just from men, but from women as well. Females are then drawn in submissive, utterly feminine way, often posing in a way that would evoke a positive response from men (if you'll notice their hips).

The reason why there is a current problem with "sexualization" (everything is sexualized) with women specifically (as opposed to you not even acknowledging male sexualization) is that recent waves of feminism eroded traditionally female gender role, and make women (and men) unsure in the very concept of femininity, often shelving it for "one size fits all - women can do everything men can do and are equal neurologically" concept.

Male affirmation of female power fantasy is him sexualizing her and it is verboten in the feminist dominated world - this kind of world is female in its core and bitchy as fuck, women go to absurd lengths to fuck over one another sabotaging their looks. If a man can sexualize me, he can also sexualize women hotter than me and the irrational female mind (as opposed to rational female mind, but we're all irrational when it comes to sexual) would rather fuck everyone over than risk being found ugly.

RedPillProphet · 2014-08-31T17:54:04+00:00

They'll pick one based on how attractive the guy looking at them is.

Bobbagwell · 2014-08-31T23:05:00+00:00

I choose Objectified. I am feminist because I respect a woman's right to be a ho. I won't marry said ho because marriage is a construct designed by the patriarchy to oppress women, but I will objectify her.

DianaDewAsmr · 2014-08-31T21:22:56+00:00

I think it's mostly about bragplaining. You get to be a victim AND tell others how awful it is to be stared at because you look too good.

ShitLordXurious · 2014-08-31T17:37:17+00:00

Feminism isn't meant to make sense. It's completely irrational: "women's logic" and female psychological manipulation taken to the level of a political narrative. It's sole purpose is to "empower" women so as to ensure that every single one of their fact-free, feelings based complaints is heard and accommodated to by society, whatever the cost, and regardless of whether it's fair, right, or justified. The entire enterprise has become a huge shit test intended to shame men into total submission, and agree with every thing women say. Politicians and journalists fold to feminist demands every single time they are confronted with them; nobody can disagree - because it's logically impossible to argue with those who have renounced the use of reason.

ScottishIslander · 2014-08-31T17:07:41+00:00

I'm not sure why any western woman would use the word "empowered" to describe the way she feels when she dresses in a way that reveals her body.

The definition of "empower": make (someone) stronger and more confident, especially in controlling their life and claiming their rights.

It's great that she can strut her stuff and feel confident and sexy about it. But no one is suppressing the western woman anymore. She can wear whatever the fuck she wants. She's not claiming her rights - they've been there for a while now.

The definition of objectify: degrade to the status of a mere object.

So what. The guys that whistle and bark at you know NOTHING about you. To them, you are only what they see. That makes you an object. Women gawk at men with great bodies in swim suits. Same shit.

Oh, and most women like the attention, as long as they feel safe, no matter what the look on their face says.

TheRedTrader · 2014-08-31T22:43:59+00:00

Logically trying to pass the worlds greatest shit test wont work my friend.

mordanus · 2014-08-31T18:28:36+00:00

Please use only one identifier set. You are either a strong powerful woman or you are an oppressed victimized woman.

TheRabid · 2014-08-31T19:38:44+00:00

Victims. I'll go with victims.

30303030303030 · 2014-08-31T18:21:36+00:00

That would involve feminists making sense...

wouldn't count on it.

kanaduhisfruityeh · 2014-08-31T19:46:00+00:00

If 2 girls are walking down the street and you only pay attention to one, the other, who didn't get enough attention, calls it objectification.

Also wearing tight clothes gets attention. Boasting about having "creepy men"... OOPS! Did I just write "boasting"? I meant to write "complaining"- Complaining about having "creepy men" look at her gets even more attention. Attention-whore mission accomplished.

redpillshadow · 2014-08-31T22:29:15+00:00

Tomorrow the feminists will drown the internet in the objectified and victim narrative.

Celebrities had hundreds of nude pictures (and sex tapes) stored on an apparently not very secure cloud. None of those sites will even mention how utterly stupid that is (and not just if you are a celebrity).

TimeAndDisregard · 2014-08-31T21:22:03+00:00

Here's another bit of doublethink I've seen from people like that; you go to a bar and start hitting on a woman. The woman responds saying that she already has a boyfriend. Now if you keep hitting on her, well you're a thirsty pig who doesn't respect her wishes. If you stop hitting on her, then you're supporting the patriarchy by seeing her as "another man's property." Silliness.

RedditRoodypoo · 2014-08-31T22:20:09+00:00

Women neither want nor need to pick one. By refusing to pick one, they can ALWAYS claim they're the victim and ALWAYS claim men are responsible for their problems. It's ingenius, really. Men who want women to dress decently are backwards, but men who want women to dress scantily are dogs.

Thatguy5354 · 2014-09-01T01:34:40+00:00

It doesn't make sense, that's why. Don't bother looking for coherency.

Ahrius · 2014-09-01T00:46:19+00:00

But then she can't have her cake and eat it to.

And we all know that' the goal of modern feminism.

memetherapy · 2014-09-01T03:24:01+00:00

Our eyes turn women into mere objects?!? GUYS! We're empowered X-Men style!

LastRevision · 2014-09-01T03:30:29+00:00

I think it isn't necessarily contradictory, even of it's ridiculous.

She wants to dress how she wants, and control how people respond to it. If 95% of the world is beta to her, she only wants 5% looking at her. She wants to control what she does, and also what everyone else does. While that's fucking crazy, it isn't a negation or contradiction.

duckducklandwhale · 2014-09-01T04:30:00+00:00

Hah I just made a post about a similar contradictory view in Feminism over on the purplepill about how they in the media castigated Sofia Vergara's mild performance for objectification but applauded Beyonce's raunchy performance, degradation, and trivialization of a feminists issue they purport to care about. Seriously, I knew it was going to be something they couldnt handle so it basically got zero responses (but a lot of early downvotes ) from the ever present feminists that always show up the entire day to make their beloved snarky comments on poor phrasing. Though, a day later one person showed up but even (s)he couldnt defend feminism's general incoherence and multitude of differing messages they broadcast. On my second reply to that person, I realized halfway thru that it was just going to be circular reasoning and more fluff talk because they were unwilling to admit it's was ludicrous inequally applied standard and that Beyonce only got away with because she wrote the words "feminist" behind her (actually the person did admit that bias, but they didnt seem to be aware of it still). The fact that they didnt even address the other pertinent points shouldve tipped me off. So, in summation dont bother with trying to make sense of modern feminism. It makes zero sense. These bitches are clueless about everything except their non-unique mission statement.

Cosmicandy · 2014-09-01T07:12:08+00:00

You ever hear the phrase "the right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins"?

Well, the only rational description of what seems to separate empowerment from objectification according to feminism seems to be "the right for me to act or dress promiscuously ends when men start to enjoy it".

so6p · 2014-09-01T08:23:26+00:00

In a feminist utopia, a woman must be able to dictate her own attitude towards life as well as others attitude towards her.

It's not evil or wrong for a woman to want this for herself. BP men obey such desires thinking it's a noble act. Consequently, she loses respect for these BP men. As RP men, we simply deny her any ownership of our attitudes/state-of-mind (i.e., frame). Then she is intrigued, and works hard to be associated with you.

It's like - I've this car (i.e., my frame), I own it and neither am I going to just give it to you so you can go to your friends parties (i.e., my frame is not for you to borrow or take) nor I am your driver to drop you off at places (i.e., my frame does not exist to serve you). Then she politely asks where I am headed and whether she could join me for the ride. I take the requesting tone of her as a positive shift from her earlier commanding tone and say - "Maybe next time".

PeteMullersKeyboard · 2014-09-03T03:01:26+00:00

They can't. It goes against their whole reason for existing.

They want to do whatever they want without any consequence whatsoever. They want to live life in a bubble where you, the male, do not exist. They want to be able to live a life without any sort of restriction, except on those they don't like or disagree with. This mindset extends to most "liberals" that exist now, left-wingers, and the uneducated in general. They want "welfare" in a sense...they want to be able to flaunt their sexuality without having to actually express it. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

[deleted] · 2014-09-01T00:47:45+00:00

Nah man. Feminism is about feminists having all the options on the table and setting the men's table on fire.

drkstrs · 2014-09-01T22:24:27+00:00

hey girls! i've decided that women can be functional, and i'll be beautiful. honey, i don't care what you look like, do you have a good job, a nice house, car etc? otherwise, don't waste my time, you can't afford me. bonus points for wooing me with your musical skills. strap down your chest, cut your hair, get to work already! i'll be following my artistic and social pursuits, i'll be that side for you. thanks for your sacrifice, you're such a good girl. now, can you get that lawn mowed? no, i don't feel like sex right now. you have to earn that from me, and i'm not in the mood. lol. it can go both ways.

ItsDeathBySnuSnu · 2014-08-31T17:51:10+00:00

Perhaps she dressed to suit her figure, the same way guys do. There's no need to objectify her over it, that's a personal decision you make.

Title	Dear feminists, please pick one: empowered or objectified?
Author	The_BitterTruth
Upvotes	310
Comments	129
Date	August 31, 2014 4:17 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2f3aj2/dear_feminists_please_pick_one_empowered_or/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/dear-feminists-please-pick-one-empowered-or.20305 https://theredarchive.com/post/20305

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