Is Engineering a Losers' Profession?

ir2phat · 2017-03-25T16:49:48+00:00

You need to read the side bar material.

Just because strong analytics and a ripped body are predominantly male traits, does not mean the skillsets required translate to one another. You have it backwards; if the engineers you are referring to had the same traits as 'natural alphas', they wouldn't have become engineers. Its darwinism; males who do not pass as the most desirable mates must find another way to be useful.

Engineering is definitely not a 'loser's profession'. Engineers have badass jobs. Just because there are a lot of loser engineers, does not make it a bad gig. I grew up near a large engineering school, and I know plenty of intelligent, redpilled guys who went into engineering. I also knew the losers- the two groups did not mix much.

Engineering in itself is not turning women off of you and your buddies, or anyone else for that matter. Don't overthink TRP too much. Just work out, and respect yourself enough to not take shit from other people.

Andrew54321 · 2017-03-25T16:54:12+00:00

Professionally licensed enginer hre, associate at a small consulting firm and running a start-up tech company.

Engineering is awful for having women around. Which is great for not shitting where you eat. The reason engineering seems to get less admiration from women relative to doctors, lawyers etc, is because of mainstream glorification.

It doesn't matter though because when I am asked what I do, I actually answer the question instead of spouting out the noun.

I help businesses make effective capital investments by applying science and math and magic.

thecometblast · 2017-03-25T16:21:21+00:00

are you crazy, if I go to college again back in time I would be in engineering!

Seriously ask yourself, in silence, what you want to be. I want to say stop focusing on women, but to a hormone crazed guy that's like asking a fat bastard to stop eating cake.

In the long run, the harder you tried at something and get it, the ou better the memory is. You shouldn't wonder if engineering is right at getting girls, you should wonder if it's challenging enough for you at you would be satisfied if you earn the tab or job. That when you talk about your engineering stuff you would be full of passion and inspire, instead of just saying to yourself oh why I do this... girls ain't gonna reciprocate to your paper but to your attitude.

TerranOPZ · 2017-03-25T17:01:41+00:00

It's a winner's profession. I'm a computer engineer and I probably make more money than all of the dipshit jocks from highschool with degrees in sports management. They're all probably stuck doing sales or unemployed.

Computers run this planet and people who understand them run the world.

M_I_Z_Z_O_U · 2017-03-25T18:13:16+00:00

I have a bachelors and a masters in mechanical engineering. It's true -- you won't meet girls in engineering school. Which, at least to me personally, was fucking great because there was way less drama in class. But that doesn't mean everyone in engineering school is a fucking neckbeard. Truthfully it's about 50/50. Half of the engineers have no social skills, but the other half are relatively normal people. You'll have to work harder to meet girls, but you'll have plenty of other opportunities to meet them. Think parties, the gym, etc. Overall, it's definitely work it though. I'm 27 and I make 115k in the Midwest.

roeddit · 2017-03-25T17:47:55+00:00

I don't think anyone has actually answered your question.

those skills are as important as muscles for evolutionary survival

Yes and no.

Muscles, size and power have been useful evolutionarily since the dawn of animal life. However, higher-level thinking has only been useful in the past 400,000 years or so. In the evolutionary environment, muscles still beat brains and status still beat muscles.

Thus, raw analytical thinking isn't inherently attractive to women looking for a provider, it's the social and material gain that comes from using those skills.

critical_aperture · 2017-03-25T16:51:42+00:00

I don't hang out in this sub, so I don't know how to provide you with an answer that toes the party line, however I think you're over-analyzing things and making some unfounded supposition.

Engineering is one of the highest paid and most secure professions in the world. The coming wave of automation is going to decimate the workforce in ways that most people don't realize. Even medicine and law (traditionally lucrative careers) are going to be affected. The demand for engineers will only continue to grow.
You presume that "engineer == lack of social skills." The most successful engineers that I know are very socially skilled. Some are naturally extroverts, but many are also introverts who've invested the effort in teaching themselves how to become more social. The better your "soft skills", the more you're able to influence people, whether that mean sway a boss to your ideas or selling something to a customer. (Sales pros with a strong engineering background are worth their weight in gold and make ridiculous amounts of money).

GuitarHero07 · 2017-03-25T16:52:05+00:00

The truth is that social/emotional intelligence is completely different from advanced math, physics, medicine etc. There are some on the autism spectrum who can do amazing mathematical and artistic feats but are utterly inept when it comes to social interactions. Many who are extremely intelligent simply cannot relate to people without the same intellect.

Women tend to have better social intelligence and "soft power" skills than men because their brains are far better adapted to empathizing. Men's brains are better suited for systematizing. Engineering is an extreme form of systematizing. Having a mastery of complex abstract reasoning doesn't necessarily translate into understanding women and humans in general.

RedditAdminsSuck_88 · 2017-03-25T16:51:37+00:00

Any profession can be a winning profession. Even flipping burgers at McDonald's.

Women base their self worth on their looks.

Men base their self worth on what they do.

Generally what you do has no bearing on your social life. There are some professions that definitely help, but there is no such thing as a profession that will hurt your social life as long as you don't let it hurt your social life. When I bartended there would be loser deadbeats who couldn't hold down a damn job at Taco Bell who would come into my bar and slay high value women on the regular.

Don't let what you do for a living define your social life unless its one that will enhance it(think musician, etc.)

butsomeare · 2017-03-25T17:43:53+00:00

You are not your job.

You are not your fucking job.

You are what you want to be, or rather, what you make yourself to be.

Engineering pays rather well, and has good employment opportunities. You go to work, do your job, and leave. It'll be there tomorrow. The job gives you the money to do the things you actually want to do - fix old cars, collect/shoot guns, attend martial arts classes, sit down and read books, go out in the evening, whatever floats your boat.

Are you going to let women choose your career for you? No. If you're happy in engineering, so much the better, but it pays the bills, and lets you do what you want to do. Find a hobby you have a passion for. Find two or three, who cares. And if getting women is your concern, the passion for your hobbies, the active interests, will become foremost. Make them foremost. The job is just a job.

P.S. Correlation and causation regarding engineers being piss-poor at socializing. My assessment is that those with poor social skills are more apt to become engineers, not that becoming an engineer somehow deletes social skills.

Mangoinhand · 2017-03-25T19:06:37+00:00

That's why I love engineering.

Because you can be the top 20% of men in general... and them automatically be top 5-10% SMV of software developers. And make a ton of money

coolioo77 · 2017-03-25T16:28:01+00:00

Engineering nurtures problem solving and analytical skills within the realm of data and information - the social world is very much grey and requires emotional intelligence which engineering is void of or perhaps inhibits.

My recommendation if you'r an engineer and struggling with dating is improve your social skills by talking to as many people as you can and allow your self to achieve better emotional expressiveness and nuance.

An engineering working as a Project Manager.

aanarchist · 2017-03-25T16:54:35+00:00

it is neither a winners nor losers profession. you are not your job. alpha is a state of mind, not a profession.

rave_n · 2017-03-25T19:58:06+00:00

I am at the same point in my life. Just got my bachelors degree in mech. engineering. Currently contemplating studying law for the same reasons you just laid out.

It's crazy. I like engineering, I'm rather good at it (without putting much work into my studies) but seeing the impression that an engineering job makes on a women makes me want to vomit. If I could go back 3 years in time I'd never chose engineering again.

blackedoutfast · 2017-03-25T17:02:58+00:00

yeah EE is full of nerds. the chads of engineering do mechanical.

Phoenixtorment · 2017-03-25T18:21:28+00:00

There is a starship.

It has a Captain, a First Officer, a Pilot, a Weapons & Tactics officer, a Doctor and an Engineer.

A HB9 enters the ship.

Who has the highest initial SMV for her? Arrange them in SMV position.

TehJimmyy · 2017-03-25T16:22:18+00:00

First of all you are asking in the wrong place.

Secondly , i am an engineer myself. My university is also at top 31291392 but who gives a fuck seriously. Yeah my college "friends" are all cringey. All their life was on solving problems but duh thats why they chose engineering.

Now it is on you to choose what you want to do with it. I gotta agree that most engineers are cringey but are successful on what they do.

Thats why we both are here and some of us cringey engineers because we recognise our flaws and do something about it.

Labelling people and calling people names wont get us anywhere soon enough.

Sumsar01 · 2017-03-25T17:03:29+00:00

Most men don't self improve. In STEM professions, engineers, physicists etc. you will see two kind of people. The social awkward nerd who don't get girls and the aggressive super charming leader type.

It's a place for uncut diamonds. The human mind is not made for math and analytical thinking, so these people are just above the normal population generally. They/you just have to cultivate it.

Vilna_Gaon · 2017-03-25T16:40:48+00:00

Yes, engineering is a losers profession in terms of being a man with a great social life and having access to lots of women. It's a winners profession in terms of the money that you'll make.

The majority of white men I see in engineering end up marrying an Asian woman and living a good life -- but they aren't slaying tons of pussy. White women will largely reject you.

hccps · 2017-03-25T16:29:39+00:00

Fair question. What professions would you call 'Winners'' professions, I ask, not quite understanding the nuance of your approach.

mwait · 2017-03-25T18:18:11+00:00

I am a 30yo EE working in microprocessor design.

I am also 6'4", lean and athletic, and I have a roster of past conquests as long as my arm.

Is my occupation sexy? Nope. Am I sexy? Yep. Are my hobbies that I am able to fund via my occupation sexy? Absolutely.

RPDrogan · 2017-03-26T01:12:24+00:00

Engineers get paid well. Women like money. Money gives you power. Yes there are a lot of blue pilled men in engineering. The nerdy kids who hated social interaction would much rather speak to a computer through code, than a person through verbal and nonverbal communication. But that doesn't mean that engineering is a loser profession. Any profession that pays well is a good profession.

If you take the red pill and learn what this sub has to offer, you can attract women regardless of your profession. And being financially stable won't hurt either.

Tiny piece of advice though, don't do what your beta engineering friends do in terms of women. Don't spend lots of money on a woman to get laid. Don't get clingy or catch feelings for every woman you sleep with. Read the sidebar.

MAGA_TODAY · 2017-03-26T01:21:01+00:00

I would not say that engineers are inherently less valuable to women but many lack the social and emotional iq skills. Yes, there are plenty of goobers in engineering. I'm studying mechanical engineering now. I wouldn't even hang out with 80% of my peers. There are redpilled guys in engineering. You just have to find them. They are rare. Most engineers think logically, maybe too logically, meaning they think just because they are nice, smart, and soon to be making more than most other majors out of college that they have more worth. The people who are like this are bluepilled forever. I was lucky enough to be a collegiate athlete, a bartender and a frat guy before I chose engineering. Worked really hard on social skills and even though I don't have the best GPA employers like me because I'm not the typical sit inside geek like my peers. Honestly, being a more social guy with an engineering degree makes you more valuable to rise in your profession. I'm not complaining though because it makes my life easier.

KindnessWins · 2017-03-26T12:45:59+00:00

Personally I think thinking is for beta fags. Alpha males(which I totally am much like OP) just sit around being Alpha and stuff. Also just like OP I'm really really confident and all women like me. Especially the women of beta cucks.
Let me also add that Redditors (especially the red pilled kind) are ABSOLUTELY incapable of reading between the lines of a post

ohyeawellyousuck · 2017-03-25T17:06:03+00:00

Dude wtf. Shit post.

Find what you want to do, what you enjoy, figure out a way to get paid for it. Then do whatever else you want to do in your off time.

If your so fucking insecure about the judgements of others that you need to lie about your profession (or worse, change it to business because you have this clearly asinine opinion about stereotypes and getting laid) then you need to start over.

atlasshrugged84 · 2017-03-25T17:58:43+00:00

Dolph Lundgren is a chemical engineer. Fucking beta.

cooperpl · 2017-03-25T18:20:39+00:00

Who really cares what does an entitled cunt think? "Ohh my future high-earning career does not make somebody's vagina tingle, better take bartending for a minimum wage :-)" - if this is your line of thought, please feel free to leave engineering - contrary to what your parents/friends may think, there are better ways to earn money than graduating in engineering (becoming top executive in banking might be better, plus it's more popular with ladies) if you want to just get a job with a high salary. That being said, I do not disagree that many engineers lack social skills and suck at gaming women, but if you lift, have a hobby which also suits your occupation (car repairs if you're a mechanical engineer for instance, carpentry might be good as well) and generally are in a 'don't take shit from anyone' stance, suddenly being an engineer sounds like a plus. It also depends how you frame it - it's better to just tell what are you really doing in your job in some creative way than just say two words. Also it all really depends on your SMV - if you look like a stud, women will also think that you're very smart as well, if you have low SMV - they'll treat you like a nerd, so it's 100% relative.

John_McFly · 2017-03-25T18:44:48+00:00

No. You can make a lot of money and can get remote work to travel anywhere. Anyone that brings up the nerdiness of it in a negative light is socially stunted.

Plus depending on the company when the squares leave the single guys are red pill to the bone. Engineering chicks just push you to step your game up as well.

LarsAvatar · 2017-03-25T18:48:00+00:00

Lots of good food for thought here. Another aspect of this is that most engineers tend to have lower SMV than men in other professions (perhaps because of the autism spectrum?). So a woman's pattern recognition skews her opinion of engineers in general. The human brain is a faulty pattern recognition machine -- it tends to sterotype entire groups of people. So if you're an engineer, you need to prove you're not like the typical engineer. mwait posted that having alpha-like hobbies is one good way to do this.

B_L_Sisko · 2017-03-25T19:43:45+00:00

Who gives a shit, becoming a great engineer should be your priority right now. Don't waste your time thinking about crap like this.

Is it really that engineering is for losers and has a bad fame for women? Or what is it?

Maybe they don't care that much because they are trying to build cool shit? Engineering is far more interesting than women.

Mckallidon · 2017-03-25T20:43:23+00:00

The very path to become an engineer requires taking dicks in the ass, face and eating a lot of blue pills. Living a largely blue pill existence to hope to move on to an even greater bluer bigger pill of an existence. Do whatever you want.

GenitalDiddler · 2017-03-25T23:46:07+00:00

Sounds like you might still be in college. But the social skills that engineers lack and the beta cess pool in the field is actually an awesome advantage for those with social skills. if you get a normal engineering job you will be in a cubical and not increasing your social skills which perpetuates the beta mindset and stereotype of engineers.

so how do you avoid this stereotype in our field (fellow engineer) don't get a fucking cubical engineering job. go into technical sales. it's where the Money is... it's where the fun is... and it's where you improve social skills everyday... its your job to improve social relations in sales. With an engineering degree makes you extremely desirable for technical sales out of school. instead of SMV think JMV your job market value is extremely high for technical sales if you have social skills...like working on them... and have an engineering degree.

as for getting women with your job... that's called provider male shit. stop thinking that way.

Merwebb · 2017-03-26T01:24:13+00:00

Well, see it this way.

Legend says that while Chad is learning socialization skills and playing sports and such, dear Billy is on books and shit. We know where this goes. This is not always the case but happens fairly often.

Truth is that a successful engineer is a social one, can make contacts, analysis, lots of charm all around. More introverted ones gets the shit done but in the background.

0xdada · 2017-03-26T01:46:14+00:00

Women skew against engineers because you have to know a lot about it to know where someone sits in the hierarchy, which is the only thing on a limbic level that women care about. If they don't understand what you do, they don't know where to slot you in (pardon the pun) using the logic of hypergamy.

Mix that with a bunch of aspergers nerds whose confidence has no physical basis but who act like they have a right to speak among groups of men and it's very hard to tell what an engineer is signalling. As a result, a lot of women just write all engineers off because they can't place them properly, where others pick them as beta bucks.

What they do know is that you are way down on the totem pole compared to the professions, power jobs, and business owners. Not a lot of women are into guys who are just really fucking smart, because nobody really trusts smart. Smart is potential not results.

Need2LickMuff · 2017-03-26T03:05:57+00:00

You say you're a smart man but then fail to understand why engineers get no pussy, ignoring the fact that there is no social status attached to being an engineer outside of male appreciation.

Lawyers and doctors are prestigious job positions. Women flock to status. Not hard to figure out, especially when engineers tinker and have basically nothing to do with the population, unlike lawyers who talk their way around the law and doctors who save lives.

Athletic people gravitate towards sports, and autistic/socially inept dweebs gravitate towards engineering. It's just how it goes. Another great example of the over-glorified 'alpha' and 'beta' dichotomy flung around here, and how appropriate application of the terms is completely situational.

i_got_the_clearance · 2017-03-26T04:37:00+00:00

I'm not sure anyone's job has an outsized impact. Most of us are in the same range income-wise. By that I mean, if she is looking for a truly rich person - a multi-millionaire - you are most likely out of luck whether you are a doctor or an engineer. Job titles are pretty much meaningless - everyone is a VP or manager, including the girl you are talking to.

The important thing is that you yourself are impressed with what you do. Maybe you fight a war every day to drive a bus and put food on the table and you're proud of that. That confidence will carry over into your interactions. If you think everyone in the room has a better job than you, you are both wrong in reality and also not in the right frame mentally.

Was said by others, but how you answer the question is important. Don't give your resume. Looking for validation is a huge turn-off. Best to give a funny answer, or something short and simple. Also read CH: if you live in an area where girls have a lot of choices, or are talking to a 10/10, try flipping the script, and asking what she does as if you need to validate her. Spout some nonsense about only dating girls with an IMDB page. She'll be intrigued / amused and you'll have a fun five minute conversation which is the most important thing.

PM_ME_UR_TECHNO_GRRL · 2017-03-26T05:38:57+00:00

Lol has anyone caught on that the post answers itself? Look at the degree of complexity he put into analyzing the relationship between the engineering field, women and beta behavior. Does that sound like a guy who fucks?

tourguidez · 2017-03-26T13:03:09+00:00

My father, is retired now, but was a brilliant electrical engineer. If you are career and goal oriented, then I do not think that it is a career choice for 'losers'. There's nothing lame about being incredibly intelligent, despite what some people may want you to believe. I don't know what your goals are (a long term relationship or casual sex) but as long as you remain confident, don't let people walk all over you, and find someone with similar interests I think you will be fine.

niczar · 2017-03-26T15:01:19+00:00

Then, how is it that engineers are the best suckers in sexual market. They do not have social skills, they fail with women, they do not even know how to approach and so on...

Not all of us do, but there's two things:

First, you don't have a lot of interactions with women in that job, and during your studies. So you're missing on many opportunities to learn about their behavior.

Second to be a good engineer in itself requires little to no social skills. So those who would otherwise be at the bottom of the social ladder find themselves in a much higher position. But it doesn't mean that it requires to not have those skills either.

The solution is two-fold. First, use what you're good at and cultivate it. If you have the skills and inclination to be a good engineer, be the best you can be; being a worse engineer isn't going to give you brownie points. Pick your specialty and master it.

Second, widen your interests and activities, and as much as possible, pick them well outside of the engineering stereotype. The goal here is to both meet more, different people, be able to relate to them, but also to not be pigeonholed in that geek stereotype. Such contrast creates curiosity, and that breeds attraction.

Speaking of which, lift. Yesterday I was at a party, plenty of 20-something artsy types. Invariably a girl asks me what I do. She won't believe I work in IT. I ask her why not; she touches my bicep saying I don't look the type.

jongalt11 · 2017-03-26T15:55:44+00:00

As a parent of two engineer graduates. I watched as the few women in their classes were mediocre students that were relying on their sex to get them through. I don't know why but it happened.

Buscemi123 · 2017-03-26T17:28:48+00:00

This is something that you learn at engineering classes. Most engineers aren't losers because they're engineers, but because they're losers is that they choose engineering.

Think about it. You're a guy with no social skills, you're smart, one of the best options there are is engineering. It's a good job, no women to make you uncomfortable and you don't to deal with people as much as other professions.

newName543456 · 2017-03-27T17:46:46+00:00

hen, how is it that engineers are the best suckers in sexual market. They do not have social skills, they fail with women, they do not even know how to approach and so on...

Maybe because they don't dedicate much time and energy to increasing their SMV, dedicating it to, I don't know, actually learning engineering?

knightwhosaysneet · 2017-03-28T05:30:47+00:00

Engineer here. I hear your post. As with all skills, you have to practice in order to master. The problem with engineers these days is that you spend a huge amount of time in front of computers and stuff. Never really using your social skills outside of work topics. HRs have made it illegal to even talk to women at work so naturally, most engineers can't banter. Banter being the root of all sexual speech. The difference between you and the other computer nerds is that you are going out of your way in order to improve your social skills. Sharpening that dull sword. All skills are the same.

My manager is one of those nerds that you speak of. I hate when we are in meetings with the CTO, who is very polished in many skills such as public speaking, and when my manager answers he starts getting nervous and stammering. I feel embarrassed for him because I can feel how the room immediately looses all respect for him. But he never goes out after work. Just goes home and surfs the internet. I invite many of my coworkers out because I am known to be the social guy with hobbies at work. I'd say 90% of all the guys at work are flakes like a bunch of women. They rather stay home and play video games.

To each their own. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. However I'm the guy who is an engineer at work but everyone who comes over is surprised that I don't even own a computer at home. Haha

dewleigh · 2017-06-15T18:27:09+00:00

Most women look for the $$$... and they are smart enough to know engineers generally make good bank. It also helps with a decent to buff body. But if a chick isn't into you and what your interests are, she is likely not worth your salt. Just my 2cents.

judo_ftw · 2017-03-25T16:49:22+00:00

Engineers build shit.

What were you saying about manly?

vengefully_yours · 2017-03-25T22:08:11+00:00

Then, how is it that engineers are the best suckers in sexual market. They do not have social skills, they fail with women, they do not even know how to approach and so on

Simple answer is that you guys are socially inept as a trade off for number crunching. It's the rare individual who can do the math, think abstract, visualize it in his head, and has silent the time needed to learn how to read the subtle nuances of body language and facial expressions.

Doesn't help that a huge number of you are on the aspergers spectrum, skewed heavy to the social retard side.

It's how you are and it doesn't make you less of a man, useless, or fucking retarded. It means that you have to put in the effort and learn to read people. That can be difficult because it isn't black and white like math and code. A + B = watermelon or purple for all you can see. This input will have widely fluctuating variables when applied to a girl because she is irrational, prone to emotion, might be having a bad or great day, and might not be into you. You can't tell because a face is a face to a huge number of you.

My ex wife, #2, was aspie and had facial blindness of sorts, she is like many of you being unable to read people and tell when they're full of shit or interested in you. I tried to teach her but she would get massively frustrated and freak out then start bawling. Many of my engineering friends are like her, most actually. They simply don't have the skills required to read expressions and body language. Anything that is black and white works for them, shades of gray and things that need a somewhat more artistic touch are nearly impossible.

You can overcome it and learn, but you have to apply yourself. It's learning a new language but you can't ask about it, you can only observe. I learned how to read girls when I was 16, and if you guys are at least as intelligent as I am you can get exceptionally proficient at it like I have. I know exactly which girls are interested and which ones aren't, just by watching them. Nobody can tell you, you have to go watch them and see what they do, how they act. Once you have the metrics of it in your head, you can spot it easily and quickly.

Or don't and rarely get laid. It's like lifting for your mind.

Sousanator · 2017-03-25T22:44:51+00:00

I would say a higher % of engineers are not good with women due to the nature of what makes them engineers. Well, to be honest, I would say there are many different types of engineers. There are those that are super smart in analytics and social/business structures, and there are those that can do the most complex problems. Take Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak. Jobs is the business engineer. Wozniak is the engineers engineer. The engineers engineer lives for engineering above all else, even if his goals ultimately end in finding a mate. Also, from reading some of the shit said in this thread, it sounds like OP is absolutely absorbed in a shallow ideology that tries to be a substitute for real evolutionary psychology. Makes OP sound like he's 15.

Title	Is Engineering a Losers' Profession?
Author	hardestmonk
Upvotes	4
Comments	130
Date	March 25, 2017 4:14 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/61gab2/is_engineering_a_losers_profession/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/is-engineering-a-losers-profession.42087 https://theredarchive.com/post/42087

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