NoFap, Science or broscience?

pedler · 2014-05-04T23:16:01+00:00

Ok, I'll try to give a pros and cons. Lengthy post, no tldr.

NoFap is an extremely good idea for anyone fucked up by porn, someone who has sexual issues, someone who has motivational issues, or someone who has just tallied up the time and realized "GODDAMN months of my life goes to jerking it. I could have read 29394823 books in this time."

For these types, you've got to reduce your jerking off and the only way to do that is to try a cold-turkey period, and then perhaps see if you can handle it from time to time.

Here's what I noticed:

Harder erections / more confidence
Pussy feels way tighter and better.
Massive ejaculations. Giving massive facials is a good way to make your sex life more fun and dominant.
More energy to work out.
A lot more aggresive / kino with girls. After about 2 weeks of not masturbating, I was noticing I had far less inhibitions and was a lot more willing to push for a close.
No more afternoon dip in energy. I used to get home from work on a friday, bust one or two out, and just collapse, take a nap, then go out at around 10. In hindsight based on what I've read, I think the nut-busting was triggering sleep hormones.

And of course, you must remember, these benefits were there for me because from age 12-22, I had been religiously watching porn. I had an average / healthy sex life at that point and didn't exactly have problems, but even in relationships with hot girls, I would be watching porn at least once a day. My life improved, but make no mistake, my life did not become "better" than my life should have been. Not masturbating didn't give me superhuman powers, it merely just made me the way that a young man is supposed to be. These NoFap loons ranting about how it makes you so amazing and energetic and whatnot, they are just saying it with such lustre because they have come from the dank depths of gaming and porn addictions, so of course to them they feel like fucking superman with a metal dick. Yet when I think about it growing up before I got into gaming / porn, that is how I felt all along; I was simply reverting to the natural way I was biologically programmed to be. You will not experience these 6 massive benefits if you are already this actualized, true alpha male, because you probably never would have fallen deep into the shit. Not falling into the shit is infinitely better than pulling yourself out of the shit.

So I've listed what I saw as positives, but to give you a complete perspective, I do see several flaws with the NoFap plan/community.

There is nothing wrong with a wank and you see these posters feeling all ashamed and guilty for ruining their 3 week spree. So what? You busted a nut, go shake that off, lift some weights, and fuck your GF. If one relapse ruins your ability to get hard for a week, seek medical help or therapy.
NoFap doesn't MAKE you alpha. What you do in addition to nofap will help your SMV / frame, but no fap itself is just about de-addicting your brain to easy pleasure / stimulation / porn. If you combine NoFap with intense weighttraining, HIIT, a good diet, and a consistent plan of approaching women, THEN you will get the success story. But then again, if you had done all of these things and you still were beating your dick, then you probably would have still lost a ton of weight, got shredded, and found a great girl. NoFap people do not understand that NoFap may have helped them find the motivation to do these other things, but it was these other things that changed their life, not necessarily their jerking off habits.
The biggest problem is similar to the biggest problem with TRP. NoFap becomes your identity / internet ego and then you attribute your success to NoFap rather than yourself. Homie, if you managed to bust your ass and double your salary / get ripped / turn around your sex life, then you need to understand what personal behaviors / internal characteristics did that. You did that; TRP didn't bust a nut, you busted the nut. Does that make sense? NoFap, being a community, trains guys to attribute their success to following the community wisdom. Pickup does the same thing; it is very tricky. When things are going bad, the guy will internalize his failures, when things are going well, he will externalize his success, thus creating the dependency and enforcing in his mind that he needs pickup for that success.

Ultimately, as a man your goal is to be successful without needing the existence of an external device (seddit community to circlejerk with, fitness community to clap you on the back for minor victories, TRP to make you feel cool every time you post some field report or insight, and NoFap to help you stay on track in self-improvement). The goal is to infiltrate the community, learn the top 10% of information, and go apply that shit. No Fap is inherently designed to keep you returning and bragging about your "days since last fap", so that you think your success stems from THEM.

Hopefully that was an interesting pros and cons. I recommend every male learn to take control of his sexuality and his dick. NoFap can help you - or should I say, by making conscious efforts to control how much you wank and how you wank, you certainly should be noticing improvements in your life. But without your nofap plan being rooted in a journey of physical development, intellectual development, and GOING OUT, it is pointless.

Even if it fails, nofap will teach you something about yourself, about how you process pleasure / desire for release, and about how you game when you're horny as fuck versus satiated. Try it. Google some research on ice cold showers and their health benefits, and do that too. Even though I still will bust a nut from time to time, learning control of my feelings and dick has certainly changed my life, not to mention the power of the frame I can hold in relationships.

lixaxil · 2014-05-04T21:18:52+00:00

Fapping too often probably isn't the best thing for you

If you fap to often it fucks with you reward system and you become demotivated and lazy in other areas of your life.

On the other hand if you do not fap and do not have sex on a regular basis you become needy and obsessed with women wich is not what you want either.

my advice would be to fap no more than once a week. If you want more action try to get laid.

dallz_beep · 2014-05-05T00:39:41+00:00

My only rule is this: No fapping until I've worked out that day.

Working out at night? Fine, you can't fap during the day yet.
Rest day? Give your balls a rest too.
You worked out today? Go ahead, as many times as you want.

My main concern was that by fapping away my energy I wouldn't get anything done. The interesting this is that this way, not only do I get things done, but after the invigoration of a work out + shower I often don't even want to fap for a while.

I admire those who can simply ignore it like a monk but I think this rule is a productive middle ground. Keep in mind lifting can be replaced with any criteria you like.

2014-05-05T04:12:18+00:00

I used to be a hardcore fapper. I'd fap at least 3 times per day, usually to porn.

When I started nofap it was really hard but let me tell you the result was amazing. I feel like a different person. All that daily fapping had me in a haze or brain fog of sorts. I was always tired and my brain was fucked up. They call it sexual exhaustion in chinese medicine. Western medicine doesn't recognize the condition.. but then again western medicine is all about keeping people sick so they can sell pills and bullshit surgeries. Anyhow that's a whole different topic but yes, nofap worked very well for me.

Another positive is that it helps cultivate discipline. The urge to jizz is the strongest thing a man will feel next to the need to breath. If you can fight that and not fap ( assuming you regularly watch porn and jerk it ) then you'll be able to fight other urges like being lazy and eating bad. It kind of snowballs.

tl;dr: If you aren't a lifetime fapper and only jerk it once a week then you probably won't notice much. If you're a daily hardcore meat stroker then yes you'll probably see a big positive difference.

KonradKant · 2014-05-05T02:15:49+00:00

Since one poster already gave most of the pros, I'll give you a con that I've experienced.

I'm the kind of guy that attracts a lot of girls that nobody really wants. That I don't want either. I fall into that category of guys that aren't high enough to be noticed by hot chicks but just good looking enough for ugly chicks to think they have a shot with me.

I've made so many good decisions because I decided to blow a load first. If you're anything like me (have a dick) then getting horny throws you off of your better senses. I've avoided fucking so many ugly, fat, or crazy girls just because I did it myself earlier. If you bust and you still find yourself attracted to someone, then that's what you should go for.

This isn't really all that related to what you're asking, but idk. I'm a big supporter of the old pull n tug. Never hurt anybody as long as it doesn't interfere with your life.

VZPurp · 2014-05-05T02:16:50+00:00

If you are curious, ditch the porn and the masturbation for an extended period of time and see for yourself. No one can tell you how it's going to affect you.

RPSavant · 2014-05-04T21:55:54+00:00

I think that fapping to porn only strengthens the dependence of man on woman. If every time you look at a pretty woman and get that feeling that you want to have an orgasm, you are at a disadvantage.

A woman's power over a man is just that. You are thinking with your (blue) balls and not your head.

Stop fapping and you can look at the pretties girl as if she is just another guy.... thus removing her power over you.

WaterHound · 2014-05-04T23:05:56+00:00

I'm a NoFapper that has been going on a year now. I was hardmode for about 280 days, but I haven't fapped or used porn since. Girl only for release.

I can say this about it. There are no "super" powers. It doesn't make you a god. I still have issues to work out with how I relate to women and things of that nature, hence why I read here. That being said, I do feel more "normal" if that's helpful.

But it's all based on background. Before NoFap, I was obsessed with sitting in the dark, avoiding the world, and fapping to a virtual fantasy land. I did this all through my twenties. Because I was also BluePill, I never ventured out and got the real sexual release that I needed, except in comparably small doses. This furthered my depression and made me psychologically very unhealthy.

NoFap was ultimately part of a process, not a cure. It helped me finally pull myself out of the unhealthy fantasy. I did get a lot of energy back too... but I was very depleted, to the point that I was beginning to experience the porn-induced ED. That being said, I'm also not some magical sex god simply because I don't masturbate. I am merely more motivated to find a partner when I don't have one.

I have also found that NoFap helped with me getting more settled and focused. I'm just now starting to give meditation a much more serious look as far as a regular practice. I can say that a past me, with masturbation as a habit along with some serious porn downloads, would never find time to sit and meditate. Even with my yoga practice and martial arts.

That doesn't mean masturbation is evil. Eventually, I will have too much energy and I'll need to do something about it. Either with a girl or with my hand. Preferably a girl. But NoFap took me out of my compulsive habits. If I get an urge, I no longer lose my wits or start thinking about all the dirty smut I can download off the internet. I'm more in reality instead of in the cyber dream. I won't release unless I actually need to release. In the past, I never released when I actually needed to.

So yeah, porn is the real culprit. Some people can play with it, and they don't get lost in the illusion. I'd say the vast majority cannot. It's like any other substance. For some, alcohol is just some recreational thing to have. For others, it becomes Satan himself. For me, porn is too powerful. I'd be content being alone and a holed up nerd if you give me enough stimulating porn to fap to.

Instead, I work out far more often than I used to. So it helped me quit the compulsion. But ignore all the stupid motivating posts and things like that at the subreddit. Hardly helpful, or realistic.

1800_THROWAWAY · 2014-05-04T22:37:33+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Goupidan · 2014-05-05T03:13:22+00:00

It's addiction control. Which is always good.

BPnomore · 2014-05-04T23:03:45+00:00

An in-depth analysis of nofap by a psychology professor who specialises in psychology of sexuality:

http://i.imgur.com/F0pI1dv.png

KonradKant · 2014-05-04T21:07:43+00:00

I think some of it.is.to do with de-wiring your brain from porn. Read a lot of things about how it increases testosterone, and I've also read lots of things about how regular release increases testosterone. Not sure I'd there's any truth to that side of it.

favourthebold · 2014-05-04T21:11:43+00:00

Hey man. I'm in nofap more than I'm on here. I say it works from personal experience.

In terms if alpha and beta. I have a lot of alpha traits naturally (or learned it or however alpha traits come about) it seems. When I'm doing nofap they really come on strong.

For me it would be the difference between being alpha completely naturally without even thinking about what I'm doing, vs trying to be alpha when my first instinct is being beta.

I've read a lot on nofap, there's plenty of guys who you can tell are being alpha for the first time I their lives. Probably that's why they think it's so amazing

4tune8 · 2014-05-04T22:05:04+00:00

There are benefits to it, but if you read NoFap a lot of the hailed "cures" of NoFap are broscience. I think the reason that NoFap is so popular is because a lot of people subconsciously (or consciously) feel a lot of guilt/shame with masturbation, especially when combined with porn. Over time this builds up and has psychological effects, especially as people start to explore more hardcore forms of porn. I'm not completely convinced that the actual act of masturbation or watching porn has all that much to do with it.

shamanbard · 2014-05-05T00:46:47+00:00

In some schools of Taoism, abstaining from ejaculation is very important, as semen is considered to be a form of energy that is transmuted into chi. So, the idea has been around for a few thousand years.

Almost_legit · 2014-05-05T00:22:35+00:00

Think /r/pornfree would be the better option

raceAround126 · 2014-05-05T06:53:20+00:00

Quick TL/DR background: 8 years of a sexless relationship with my ex. Spent most of that time whacking it to porn because she wouldn't fuck me. Result, very de-sensitized dick. I felt nothing wearing a condom at all, don't cum from blowjobs and when we did break up, I was even losing interest in fapping.

I read most of no-fap. I took on board the part about not masturbating at all. I only ever touch my dick while peeing or washing. That's it.

Result? Well, in the month or so I've been observing this, I've definitely had a return of sensitivity. I still don't cum from blowjobs, but I find cumming with a condom on much easier. Maybe it was the change in brand though I remember the first time using them I felt the same kind of nothing. But over time, I've felt more.

I've also found my lifting workouts far more energized, felt more driven and I had a desire to push as far as I could. Even yesterday, I beat my top weight by a good 5 KG. I know, small victories, but I'm still a beginner with all this. I also found I spent a lot less time sat watching netflix. I prefer outside more. Maybe these bits are nothing to do with no fapping and more to do with enjoying the single life. But feeling a little bit of sexual tension by refusing to fap seems to focus my mind when I need to do something. Then having a girl around to relieve me feels a lot better!

TL/DR: If you ruined your sensitivity with porn, stop fapping go cold turkey! There are only benefits! There are no downsides! Do it. Delete your porn, install a parental control blocker if you have to! Just quit the fapping. Go take a shower, go lift, go for a run if you feel the urge!

2014-05-05T10:49:20+00:00

I've tried nofap and since everybody here talks about the positive things let me tell you what it did for me.

Many people talk about this insane concentration/focus you get. For me, I couldn't focus on ANYTHING. My mind was only thinking about sex. I couldn't study, which was a very big concern for me since my education was probably the only thing going on (broken arm so no lifting for 5 months).

Nofappers love to put women on the pedestal, let me tell you that. They talk about the unobjectivication of women, viewing them as "women" and not sex objects. I always laugh when I read those things. For me it did the complete opposite. The only thing I saw on a woman was their boobs and ass. They were nothing more to me than to release my sexual energy.

Here you go OP, the other side of the spectrum. Im very sad that the only thing nofap did for me was give me a crazy libido, it's like women were the only thing that matter in your life doing nofap. Good luck.

Movonnow · 2014-05-05T15:43:20+00:00

Hey.

I've had 3 streak of Nofap (44 days, 162 days and my current 32 days).

I don't know for sure if it's real of if it's just placebo and I don't care. It's working for me so I stick at it.

Manmore · 2014-05-04T21:50:32+00:00

I think the biggest problem with masturbating, especially to porn, is shame. That shit cripples you on so many levels. That's why I try to cut it out.

bitchdantkillmyvibe · 2014-05-05T00:09:10+00:00

Here's what I've gathered from NoFap after lurking it occasionally over a year or so.

NoFap seems to be a sub of mostly beta males who see masturbation as the reason for all their romantic failures. They seem to be full of sexual shame, like most men these days, and think they need to remove this 'perversion' to become attractive to women. I feel like a lot of these dudes are the same dudes women often label as 'creeps' - meaning they are probably just unattractive, lacking confidence or both.

I also feel that the guys in there do have a problem. I don't think these guys are feeling bad about fapping once on a Sunday night. These dudes are probably chronic masturbators, and they probably do it too much.

That said, I feel like they look at not fapping as a cure-all to their problems in life. While not fapping would definitely have some advantageous effects, especially for these guys, they are attacking something symptomatic of a much bigger problem.

They think they don't get girls or are miserable because they masturbate. When in reality, they masturbate because they don't get girls or are miserable.

This probably exasperates the problem - girls can smell desperation and nothing is usually more desperate than a chronic masturbator. Plus, remember that post-orgasm, you secrete massive amounts of oxycotin, which makes you more feminine and emotional. So a lot of these dudes aren't exhuding test because they are depleted from chronic masturbation.

But what these guys really need to do is attack the source, which could be a number of things - don't feel attractive, low confidence levels, low self-esteem, low self-worth, no game, no motivation etc. While removing masturbation from their lives probably does have some benefit, it's not gonna solve all their issues, and that's why I feel they are wrong in being so vehemently against masturbation, and also their reasoning behind why they are.

They are along that line of thinking that if they just remove one thing from their life, everything will be okay. This is a common line of thinking, when in reality, most of these guys probably need an entire lifestyle change and to implement many changes in their lives. It's the same thinking you sometimes see even here, where guys think that if they just don't give a fuck and 'act' alpha, they'll be alright. When in reality, they still need to work out, look after themselves, get game and gain confidence to truly 'be' alpha.

I wish these dudes all the best though, they are trying to implement some self-improvement, but need some more direction.

RejectionEquality · 2014-05-05T05:00:05+00:00

A strangely familiar question.

wasabiversace · 2014-05-04T22:11:30+00:00

The biggest problem is porn, this the reason why nofap advocate www.yourbrainonporn.com

A partial reason for why fapping is heavily discouraged is due to the reason that you rarely ever do fap without porn. And the chances that if you keep on fapping whilst doing noporn, you'll probably get too horny and get back to watching porn again.

Pill_Red · 2014-05-04T23:07:45+00:00

I'm a NoFapper. After a couple of relapses, I'm on day 198 now, the longest streak ever. NoFap for me has been the first thing of becoming a better version of myself. Working out, learning up on game and swallowing the red pill followed (in that order).

I don't know whether it's scientifically proven or not. But I don't care about this. I know that it works for me. Always hiding porn evidence, I lived two lives before NoFap and it impacted me on multiple areas.

NoFap can be combined with TRP very well. Why don't you try it for a couple of weeks?

aguy01 · 2014-05-04T23:53:18+00:00

My personal theory is based on how in other primates, beta males will masturbate while they watch an alpha fuck a hoe. I think the reason masturbation has a more detrimental affect than sex is that it is meant to keep you complacent and know your role in the tribe, while at the same time you become sad for being a beta fag. Just a thought.

blazingblue16 · 2014-05-04T21:22:18+00:00

It's outrageously exaggerated. Correlation does not imply causation, if understood, could shut their subreddit down.

"Stopped fapping, cold cleared up -> nofap helps your immune system" <- this type of shit.

The benefits are mostly psychological.

Denying sexual release thorough masturbation makes you more aggressive sexually (expected) so you would be motivated more to go out and meet women.

Denying sexual release (amongst other activities that lead to dopamine release) might help you focus better (too much dopamine and you build a resistance to it, needing a "bigger dose every time". Stop wth the dopamine abuse -> less adhd -> better focus).

Denying sexual release by abstaining from masturbation might increase your T levels slightly (about every 7th day or so) and you may also have some excess energy (that you can use for other activities like exercise or actual sex)

Dispelling some myths (without source because no time)

no such thing as porn addiction (as in it's a psychological addiction at best, not a physical one, so it can be "cured" anytime). Negative effect exist but as mostly self-inflicted and vary from person to person. For some porn + fap is taking care of business fast and free, for other is a replacement for actual sex.
masturbation (or abstaining from it) does not :

clear up acne

affect pheromone levels

cause depression

significantly affect T levels.

dura2 · 2014-05-05T00:18:01+00:00

Some people certainly take NoFap a little too seriously. Hence why it may sound like a cult. The point of NoFap is to gain a healthy relationship to porn rather than using it as a crutch to escape reality. It can fuck up your sense of self and your idea of what healthy sex and relationships are. I myself have participated in NoFap and there are definitely some benefits. But you need to take it upon yourself to improve your life. NoFap is not a panacea, and those who think it is are doing it for the wrong reasons.

aguy01 · 2014-05-04T23:30:53+00:00

There is no science backing up nofap because 1) It's very difficult for a team of independent researchers to study the effects of PMO on people who have never done it because all men do it, and 2) The powers controlling academia don't want good studies done because they want you to fall into the trap of porn.

There are a lot of conspiracy theorists on this sub since the proliferation of Feminism itself is a huge conspiracy, and they will understand what I mean. Academia isn't even TRYING to do studies on the matter. The easiest (and laziest) way to disqualify something is to say there is no evidence, which is really easy if you are an academic and you 'control' the evidence. There is an overwhelming amount of anecdotal evidence that shows benefits to abstaining from porn, mainly, but also from masturbation (which doesn't release oxytocin like sex does to counteract the hormone/energy release) and even orgasm itself (people have known for thousands of years that orgasm robs you of energy and motivation).

Personally I was nofap for 8 months before I started having relapses. It took about 4 months to really feel like I was getting better, because I had been fapping to porn every day for 13 years, starting at 11. It took about 6 months for morning wood to return. I hadn't experienced it since my teens. The affects are subtle but every time I relapse now I notice OBVIOUS differences in my mood (increased anxiety, subtle depression, brain fog) and my ability to think quickly and speak articulately, and my ability to appreciate subtle humor in social interactions.

Relying on academia to validate your views will always hold you back. Their interests do not lie in finding truth. Do it for yourself and make your own opinion.

allcapsisyelling · 2014-05-04T21:11:41+00:00

Letting someone else decide what you do with your junk puzzles me.

GayLubeOil · 2014-05-05T03:57:28+00:00

I stopped watching porn because bright screens late at night fuck up my sleep.

strongbow_c · 2014-05-05T05:05:21+00:00

I've been doing it for about a month now. I didn't try it when I first heard about it, because whenever I did stop, my libido dropped. I didn't understand that there was such a thing as a "flatline" period where that is normal and to be expected. That said, I'm still in that phase and still don't have much of a strong libido. I still check women out, but I don't leer quite as much as I used to.

That's the only thing I've ever come across that seems to cause withdrawal in me when quitting. I'm also doing a year long break from alcohol at the same time. So, I'm feeling great but completely different from how I was feeling this time last year. I'm having a hard time sitting still and reading books like I normally did, instead I want to get out and do much more physical hobbies. I push even harder at the gym, and have gotten extremely more social with women to the point I just end up saying hi to just about everyone. I even pulled off an instadate due to just being friendly and relaxed compared to how I normally am.

I'm still in a dry spell, although I did see some action at the beginning of my journey into this experiment. I'm hoping my aggressiveness goes up after the flatline, because my approach anxiety has almost gone away completely. I was okay with women and slept with a bunch already in the past, but I want more consistent, higher quality and that's the push I want. But I almost can't be bothered to do anything that resembles chasing women because a low libido is very easy to control.

opencover · 2014-05-05T14:47:28+00:00

Why punish yourself with nofap? You like to have an orgasm. If a girl is handy that's great. If not, your right hand is handy and is better than nothing.

There's nothing to fix. You'll do well enough if it comes to an unplanned fucking opportunity, and if she becomes regular for you, there's no permanent "residue" longer than a few days from having been a fapper.

Whereas, having no sexual need can make things go much easier and, more importantly, can help you enjoy your life more.

chill_geddy · 2014-05-05T18:52:39+00:00

Not no fap 100 percent but have cut back a whole ,I try to keep it to once a week saves up my power meter

semigod__ · 2014-05-04T21:54:54+00:00

it sounds like broscience, but it isnt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublimation_(psychology)

smokingmonkey420 · 2014-05-04T22:56:24+00:00

I've tried it. 33 days was my longest streak. I find I get more frequent boners in the early stages and develop more confidence. But, it tapers off after that.

I would say it has to do with discipline more than anything cause it's so damn hard to do.

averagecycle · 2014-05-04T23:59:13+00:00

I posted a similar question over there and it seems like it's really only helpful to porn additcs/guys that whack it all day long. I've tried it myself and the only thing I can truly say it did was take an edge off of my depression...however under normal circumstances I only jerk off 1-2x a week or so, not even close to what those guys are coming from.

newpopehere1 · 2014-05-05T02:55:33+00:00

fuck_six_sigma · 2014-05-04T21:16:46+00:00

I don't understand the subreddit. It's unhealthy and I'm wired to do healthy things from my upbringing. My dad was a physician and I'm not sure exactly what he said when he caught me jerkin it once when I was a kid but succinctly: "do it as much as you feel necessary: don't let it get out of hand (all things are best kept in moderation) and don't use porn, porn is an addiction but I'm telling you: if you feel like wankin it 3 times a day then do it." Seriously. Get some sexual release from time to time.

Title	NoFap, Science or broscience?
Author	The_BitterTruth
Upvotes	81
Comments	179
Date	May 4, 2014 9:03 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/24pyq9/nofap_science_or_broscience/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/nofap-science-or-broscience.15006 https://theredarchive.com/post/15006

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