Why are video games considered DLV?

anythinginc · 2016-12-13T17:06:01+00:00

In college I played through one of the Final Fantasy games. I remember being so pumped as I beat Sin and saved Spira. I have the image of my save game burned into my fucking retinas. 106 hours.

106 HOURS

What did I gain from that? A Rikku fetish? An appreciation for Square Enix? A more lush and verdant imagination? That accomplishment has never impressed anyone, has never benefited me, and those hours could have been spent studying or doing something more constructive.

We can all google "benefits of video games" and use that to rationalize the hobby though. They do have value, they are fun, but gaming can easily take over a man's time. Men in the MRP program do not have ANY time to waste. They need to be taking care of their kids, they need to be preparing meals for the week, they need to be at the gym, they need to be reading jackten and NMMNG, they need to be flirting with their wives, they need to be preparing for their next career step, they need to be keeping their house and car on lock.

IF a man is valuable and has his life on lock and has a couple discretionary hours here and there, then sure, play video games. I'm not here to tell a guy what hobbies to have and what to do with his discretionary time he carved out of his day/week/month...but when a man comes here, when he discovers Rollo or MRP... his life is arguably not on lock...and so a blanket statement like "don't play video games" is well justified.

And, as others have said, it is just not attractive to most women. Seeing a man sitting on the sofa for three hours is not attractive. And it is certainly going to bite you in the ass when you want her to stop scrolling facebook for hours at a time and fuck you. You have set a precedent. Be attractive, don't be unattractive. Again, if your life is on lock and your wife puts the phone down when you come to bed for some action, then sure, play some vidya, but that is the exception here, not the rule. If you have the SMV to be able to get away with unattractive things, then awesome.

TheFamilyAlpha · 2016-12-13T16:35:22+00:00

isn't doing whatever the fuck you want the most alpha thing you can do?

Context man.

Is a fat dude playing video games day in and out alpha? He wants to fuck women between games but doesn't because he's fat from playing games so he just beats off.

He does this to the grave. You could call that alpha in that he did his thing and who are we to judge?

The problem is that isn't reality for the 99.9% of guys out there.

They play games because they want to get away from real life.

way less than my wife if you count Candycrush), get turned down far more often, and haven't gotten even a nude Snapchat in probably 10 years)

Doesn't seem like you're leading, attractive, or filling your role in the family.

Instead of breaking down the theory that you disagree with, why not apply what works?

BetaFeelz · 2016-12-13T16:37:17+00:00

Video games, binge TV watching, too much time on reddit, wasting time on fantasy novels, etc... all scream "escapism." The final product of these activities is null, they are solitary (even your "campaign" in WoW or whatever it is), passive forms of consumption.

If you are a "competitive gamer" railing speed and making money I will shut right the fuck up. If you are writing fantasy novels, same. Creating online content, especially as a side hustle, I will STFU.

FrogTrainer · 2016-12-13T17:01:42+00:00

Video games are commercialized masturbation. You repeatedly mash buttons for tiny dopamine rewards.

stonepimpletilists · 2016-12-13T17:07:40+00:00

Lump it with drinking and watching football with friends.

Personal distraction, doesn't make one attractive.

No one says don't have mindless distractions, the trick is to keep it from impacting real value generation

innominating · 2016-12-13T18:12:24+00:00

Your theory is essentially just be yourself when it comes to hobbies. "Just be yourself" led half the guys here into bullshit marriages.

That being said, when acted on in moderation, beta traits aren't all bad. Your woman is going to be more comfortable with you home on the couch playing video games, than she would if you were at the local rock climbing gym, or if you are more of a low risk guy doing yoga with a bunch of fit women.

This discussion took place in my head when I was 16. I had been a big gamer before. Then, I got my license to drive. I remember debating whether I should go to a friend's to play an RPG or drive to a party where I knew the girl in my English class who always smiled at me would be.

Prioritize reality. All distractions in moderation, and you'll be fine.

angels_fan · 2016-12-14T04:37:26+00:00

Here's my take on video games.

I firmly believe that I am way more productive going 100% 80% of the time rather than 60% 100% of the time.

A couple of hours here and there playing a video game is a great stress reliever. It is something I use to decompress.

I could read a book, or play the guitar, or go see a movie. And for some reason those are all seen as worthwhile activities. They are every bit as needlessly time wasting as video games. But yet there is a stigma around video games that doesn't exist in these other areas.

Well, fuck stigma. I'll play CoD a couple of times a week, and who gives a shit.

Sepean · 2016-12-13T16:47:14+00:00

Don't worry about a little DLV. Everybody kicks back and if you do it watching sports, reading reddit or playing games won't matter much.

It's about the value you add. That won't be undone by not providing value from time to time.

saint_chalet · 2016-12-13T16:30:18+00:00

Video Games are simulated accomplishment.

They're a symbol that you thrive in a controlled, safe environment. I don't skip playing vids because I figure it means I'll get laid. I skip them because I truly enjoy living in our actual world, doing actual things and feeling actual accomplishment.

YesIDoLiftBro · 2016-12-13T17:20:19+00:00

I appreciate your line of questioning. I would answer your question of "why is woodworking/tuning a bike different than gaming?" this way:

Gaming and tv binging is all escapism. That's fine in small doses but as we work to make ourselves better you gain nothing from those activities. When you work on physical projects you are strengthening your hands, you are working on actual tangible skills that are productive in the real world. You want to make a woman wet go and fix a table/car issue she has that her soft bellied husband was ready to drop a couple hundred on to have another guy fix. Learning how to work on something constructive allows you to learn other similar skills quicker and just makes you much more valuable. This is a small example but you get the idea.

I'm of the opinion that there are two types of people in this world, creators and consumers. We seek to be higher value men, consumers are low value. Get your escapism, your creative outlet, your anger outlet via a constructive avenue and you'll be better for it. Men are creators, create. Gaming is all consumption unless you're wanting to make your own, that's a different story.

Westernhagen · 2016-12-13T17:20:36+00:00

What's a DLV can vary from woman to woman. If you can find a woman for whom playing video games is a DHV not a DLV, well, I guess she's a keeper. I know my wife hates, hates, hates video games. So it's kind of a low-hanging fruit for me to avoid that DLV, since there are plenty of other fun and more productive things for me to do anyway. Everything in my MAP is more important than xbox. If I came into OYS and said I'd played video games for hours instead of improving myself, I'd expect to be called a weak-ass faggot. (Video games have ALWAYS been an avoidance behavior for me.)

Also depends on how important the activity is to you. It is a definite DLV to abandon something you enjoy greatly and frequently do just because your woman hates it. For example, I read a lot and own lots of books. Some girls I dated hated that. In due course, I nexted them, but if I'd sold all my books and quit reading I know full well they wouldn't have respected that no matter what they said. Happily, my wife loves books so my reading habits (and book-owning) are a DHV for her.

SirGaetanDugas · 2016-12-18T20:34:30+00:00

plenty of losers fix motorcycles and there definitely zerofucksgiven cads who play vids.

You cant acheive your way to Alpha. Alpha is a mindset

ReddJive · 2016-12-13T16:46:10+00:00

Here's the thing.

You won't get a clear answer here. I've known some pretty tough guys (Green berets, SWAT....) in my life. The votes go both ways.

Some like it some don't. There are reasons for both.

It's not your hobby. It's what you are neglecting for that hobby and how you act about it, and how you let yourself go. Is it an obsession?

I have some pretty geeky hobbies myself but it's not an obsession. Shit gets done and time left I enjoy my hobby.

But if you have fallen into beta hard then you need to figure your way out and insisting that your hobby isn't the issue is not your answer. You are in damage control and need to change her perceptions. Because all she sees right now is a beta sitting on his ass playing video games.

WhiteTrashKiller · 2016-12-13T18:11:29+00:00

If you think about it as a sense of value, what does being able to play a video game do for you? If you cannot put food on the table, will someone pay you to play a video game? Your car is broken and you cannot get to work, can you play a video game to fix it? Light fixture shorted out in your house, is their a video game that fixes it? For me a video game is wasted time. I could use that hour in the gym, garage or workshop. Granted these are skillsets already acquired by me long ago, but anytime dedicated to improving them should not be wasted......

My generation was the first to have game consoles for the home(fucking old), but they never stopped us from learning the basic masculine skill sets that help us grow as men, fathers, husbands.....

If you pay someone to fix your car, you're wasting wealth. If you pay someone to fix your house, you're wasting wealth. These are skills that should be mastered before wasting time and money on video games...

Even reading a book on carpentry, electric, plumbing, automotive (if you cannot practice right away) is still better than finger fucking a controller all afternoon...... Just this old fucks opinion..........

bangorlol · 2016-12-13T18:30:31+00:00

In your example of working on a motorcycle, at the end of the day you get a functional bike to be awesome on as well as the newfound mechanical knowledge of how your bike works. In the future if something breaks, you'll likely know how to fix it.

Instead of playing games and wasting my time in general, I put that energy into my work. I'm a partner at my company, and my job is to validate, design, code, and test cool shit that people will buy (plus people management and some marketing). My hobby is my profession, so anything I do for "fun" I get paid for. My wife sees that I'm good at what I do, that I'm driven, and that I get paid enough to bump me to "1%-er" status for doing shit I'd probably do for free as I enjoy it.

If I spent my time playing video games instead of working, I wouldn't be wealthy. I wouldn't have the fancy motorcycle. I wouldn't be treating myself and my wife to expensive impromptu weekend getaways. I wouldn't have an interesting life in general. I'd just be sitting there at my computer, clicking buttons to feel like I accomplished something because the rules of the game are already defined.

Games = no risk, no reward. If they're online/multiplayer, I can see some benefit of using them to "hang out" with old friends if you or they have moved. Bro time is bro time, so gaming is permissible under these circumstances.

aurelius_shrugs · 2016-12-13T20:26:36+00:00

The most valuable asset that you control is your own time. I could sit around eating, shitting, and sleeping with all my time. That would bring me fleeting joy.

Man were meant to suffer and overcome. We become what we do.

Veritas76 · 2016-12-13T20:57:35+00:00

Interesting discussion so far. Here are my two cents:

First of all, all that "I do not care what my wife of others think of me" has some limits. People are social creatures and from this perspective we are on the market all the time. Jack10 had a great thread about "marketing an exclusive brand" where he addressed it pretty well. You do care about your maket standing even if you tell and pretend you do not.

Second point is, that it is not true you are not getting anything from playing video games. There is a lot to get (it was a primary way how I learnt English language for example...) and I think it can stand comparison to watching sports, movies or reading.

That being said I do think that playing video games is perceived as an unattractive hobby. The reason is:

It is very motionless activity

My mind can be racing, I can be executing great strategy and I can be close to killing my oponent in Starcraft game, my heart beat is up. Nevertheless from external perspective you are almost motionless. A little bit of movement with mouse and your eyes are moving but that is pretty much it.

This does not apply only to gaming. Reading, meditating etc. can suffer from the same perception bias.

Think about this: A jet fighter pilot. Flying into the enemy territory. A lot of high speed movement of the jet, aggression etc. He is perceived as a badass.

Now think about a drone pilot. Flying into the enemy territory with his drone, but he is physically sitting somewhere in the US. There is still some aggression and that guy probably kills more bad guys a fighter pilot ever will. However the perception is not the same. He is perceived motionless.

RPAlternate42 · 2016-12-13T22:29:02+00:00

A motorcycle is a physical object that you are maintaining and improving. Bonus points if you are re/building it.

Video Games aren't necessarily bad, but a lot of time tends to be spent on them with literally nothing to show for it.

However, if you have an hour of mental decompression you need and you want something mindless to fill it with, then VG is okay.

I look at large, expansive games like The Elder Scroll games (Skyrim, most recently) and Fallout games (both RPGs from Bethesda) like large, expansive choose your own adventure books. They can be thought provoking at times and Bethesda's games have pretty intriguing storylines and sub-plots. It's really not much different than experiencing a book.

But the problem is the excessive time spent. And this applies to hobbies like motorcycles and sometimes even things she asks you to do/build for her.

Point is, spend the time where it is of most value to you. If it takes you 8 hours to build something, take 8 hours. If it takes 2 hours to tinker on a motorcycle in order for you to meditate on your own, then do so.

But always inquire to yourself if the time is being spent pointlessly. Because video games have no tangible record of the time spent, they are often viewed as time wasters.

Books have the same intangibleness to them, yet no one ever complains about a guy reading.

Nyquil-Junkie · 2016-12-14T01:32:24+00:00

Snapchat wasnt around 10 yrs ago.

SexistFlyingPig · 2016-12-14T10:10:08+00:00

When you are playing a video game, you are playing in someone else's data, someone else's creation. You are not following natural laws, like you would if you were working on a motorcycle or chopping wood or lifting iron, you are simply playing someone else's game.

It gives you the illusion of accomplishment, though you have accomplished nothing. You finish the quest and it gives you a brief dopamine rush, then emptiness.

Better to create and build something of your own; fix something that needs to be fixed, keep your house in good repair.

[deleted] · 2016-12-14T13:41:31+00:00

But in theory isn't doing whatever the fuck you want the most alpha thing you can do?

Imagine yourself sitting on the floor playing tea time with some dolls. Alpha.

[deleted] · 2016-12-16T14:27:02+00:00

Apparently, I'm pretty obtuse so I'm not getting your point.

bogeyd6 · 2016-12-13T16:31:54+00:00

Video games are LV for an adult male simply because it's not constructive. You usually see that a man is neglecting all other duties in favor of the video game. Since I have started owning my home there are just so many things to always be doing. My first question to someone who thinks playing video games are ok. How do you have the time?

DiscardedThoughts88 · 2016-12-16T17:51:54+00:00

Let me start by saying I love video games. One of my favorite past times. Or at least it used to be. But as others have said this is also something that I consider to be a complete time waster. By that I mean if you have time to kill, then playing a few hours of video games is a great way to make that time pass. Now let me ask you this, if you are a gamer by nature who is just discovering and putting into practice red pill philosophies, do you still have time to play video games? My video gaming time is now down to bare minimum. Used to be my go to every other night activity once the wife fell asleep on the couch I would fire up the xbox. Now when she falls asleep I want to sleep too, because my body is tired from all the lifting and exercise I have been doing. The rest of my spare time or those moments when I used to think "I'll play video games" is now me being more productive, taking care of business around the house or working on myself.

Owning your shit is addressing problems and weaknesses in your life. Playing video games is a time killer. Now that you've changed the way you look at yourself, do you really still have time for those buffers? Those things that help you escape the miserable reality you used to live in? Or are you too busy taking the bull that is life by the horns and making it your bitch?

It's a silly question IMO. Because if you're owning your shit you already realized how much time you used to waste playing those silly games. There's a time and a place for that, and it's not every night or every other night when you should be taking care of yourself. Your time is far less expendable once you've unplugged than it was before and you respect yourself more and don't want to waste the time.

Kill the boy. Become the man. Video games are no longer important.

Title	Why are video games considered DLV?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	6
Comments	109
Date	December 13, 2016 4:23 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askMRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/5i4h6k/why_are_video_games_considered_dlv/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askMRP/why-are-video-games-considered-dlv.206777 https://theredarchive.com/post/206777

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