29 Year old virgin - 4 questions

Swan_Writes · 2015-02-06T00:38:55+00:00

I remember signing up for this sub years ago, not realizing it was a community centered around how to pick up women. I was just - Seduction, I like things that are seductive, I want to be better able to seduce my SO, sounds cool, sign me up.

I very rarely comment here, because I feel the intruder to a private realm, but I also have answers to some of your questions, though they may sound trite, and people have said them here before. You are probably aware that there is no one simple answer to your problems, that said, the following can not be said enough :

Do what you love and you will find love, love of life, of self, and love from others. As a man, as you age, you are gaining attractiveness that women your age are beginning to lose. Your value is increasing, and can for many decades. Most women, and especially a woman who is worthy of you, will be attracted to who you are, what you can do, and how good they feel in your company. Even though you are expressly exposing your struggle and weakness here, your writing style is clear and confidant ; you are obviously successful in significant arenas of life. Expand your circle of confidence, and know, let yourself know, that the right woman will find you beautiful.

klman0225 · 2015-02-06T01:49:56+00:00

First off, MY MAN! Congrats on the weight loss! That's FUCKING INCREDIBLE! And in case you didn't notice a trend in this thread, THATS FUCKING COOL AND SOMETHING PEOPLE LIKE TO TALK ABOUT!

Secondarily, you're only 29! You have plenty of years left especially with the better health you're getting into.

Finally, arguably most importantly, it takes 9 months to make a new person, so that's the absolute minimum you have to allow yourself to work on your skills.

Now to your questions,

1) Everything in society is bullshit. Seriously, google this dude Mystery that people on this thread talk about. That dude is an ugly motherfucker, yet he's created an aura around him that allows him to be successful with people.

2) Projecting confidence is all about what you like about you. You just don't know the cool shit you've done. From your post here are things you have done that are fucking ballsy.

1) You lost 100 lbs. Not many people have the mental fortitude to do that while dealing with depression.
2) You overcame depression (or are at the very least working on it like the rest of us).
3) You made a post to /r/amiugly. Bold move cotton. Who the fuck cares what anonymous assholes have to say?

And thats just in the 250 words you gave me. I'm sure there are plenty of other cool stuff you've done that you don't even think is interesting or can help yourself project confidence.

3) How can anyone communicate with women? Women are enigmas, they say one thing and mean another. You gotta just take your best shot and hope it works. With practice it gets easier, listening to people talk gives you ideas on how to communicate better. Tinder isn't real life, don't try to pretend it is. No one knows what someone is like on Tinder, so if they don't think you look like George Clooney, women aren't going to take a chance on you being the next Charles Manson. Get the fuck off Tinder. Your stock is as low as you make it.

4) Bitterness, rejection and anger are all things you can control. They are all your own personal emotions and reactions to shit that in the long run doesn't even matter. If getting over bitterness and anger is tough go out and get rejected for stuff 500 times. That should be your goal: get rejected 500 times. Seek out rejection and bitterness and make is something you desire. If you want something, you can't be upset by getting it right? Make a game out of it. Ask a girl on the street to make out with you right there. If she says no, you only have 499 more rejections to go, if she says yes, you made out with a hot chick in a public area. Ask to cut the line at the grocery store with a huge selection of items and no excuse. 498 to go, or you get home quicker.

So, you have 9 months to make a new you. Don't give up or say its too hard, because no fucking shit it is. I'm here for questions or help as needed. 9 months to work out put on muscle, get rejected 500 times, to figure out how fucking cool you are, practice talking and, more importantly, listening to women, and to get the fuck off tinder.

TL;DR Fuck you if you want one. Put some effort in and read the whole thing. I spent the time to type all this out, you put in the effort to read it. No shortcuts.

^{^Edited} ^{^for} ^{^readability}

Meazles · 2015-02-06T00:17:04+00:00

I'm probably not the best person to give advice here, but what I do know is you're in the right place. That's kickass that you lost over 100 lbs! If you can dedicate yourself to losing that weight, you'll be able up dedicate yourself to seduction. Keep it up, man

King_Awkward_IV · 2015-02-06T05:22:13+00:00

The problem is that i've never had anyone attracted to me

You don't know that. For two reasons.

Women usually don't tell you they're attracted. Impractical, but true. They do often give out small hints, that you - being a rookie - will not notice.
Women are attracted by men who desire them and are bold enough to show it. So it is quite possible that a woman finds you interesting because you had the guts to approach her, even though she had no interest before that.

If none of them think I am worth going out with on Tinder [...] that seems to point out to me that my stock is pretty low

Tinder is all about looks. you should not be on Tinder. Words are your strength. Be on a site where she sees your words.

How can I move past through internal bitterness and anger to project an image of an attractive person?

Important question. I don't have the answer, but the motivation should not be to project a certain image.

Someone who is bitter and angry can project a different image by faking it. But the much better way is to get rid of the anger and bitterness. Then you can just be yourself.

Let's start with the anger. Because anger is stupid and self destructive. Who are you angry at? What did they actually do to you?

deuteriumtwo · 2015-02-06T00:44:52+00:00

"If I had a dollar for every woman that though I was unattractive I'd soon be very attractive." Start making money and get some fun athletic hobbies. Get off tinder/internet dating, that shit is not real. Meet real people in real life and have real adventures.

Read Greene's the Art of Seduction. Women are a lot less superficial about looks than men and are more about how you make them feel.

Check out Neil Strauss aka Style before he got into the game. http://www.theskillsmethod.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/neil-strauss-before-and-after.jpg

Watch the Tao of Steve. Learn to just have fun and not be so attached to outcomes with women.

hcarguy · 2015-02-06T00:29:26+00:00

I don't get matches on Tinder either. Don't worry. You're headed in the right direction and are working on the right things. It may not seem like it now but you will be attractive if you keep positive and improving yourself, and more rightly - your attitude. You've already done awesome by losing weight and working on yourself to be the person you see in your mind. Being an attractive guy is not all about muscles, looks and fashion. It's largely your attitude towards things, your views and opinions as well as being intelligent and being able to hold good conversation with anyone (and women).

Do hobbies that you like and relax, don't stress about looking confident. If you're worried about looking confident to others, well that just implies the exact opposite. Confidence stems from non neediness.

That next question is a bit tricky... So far I don't really worry about "my worth" from a woman. I say my intentions and portray that I am attracted to her, but she can take it or leave it. I'm going to be fine regardless of what happens.

That last question is tough, and I hope someone with more life experience can weigh in here. It's not just you who is going through that, everyone has their baggage and emotional distress from their past. I would definitely like to know as well.

I hope this helps mate. I would recommend reading Models by Mark Manson, it really has helped me see things clearer in regards to life and women. It's especially a great help if you share the same sort of philosophies on those topics. Have a read, even if you don't agree with it I'm sure you might get something useful out of it.

Stay strong and keep going buddy!

MulhollandDrive · 2015-02-06T01:41:25+00:00

Can you post a photo of yourself, block your face (if you want)

know_comment · 2015-02-06T05:47:48+00:00

Most guys aren't physically attractive enough to get long stares. It doesn't matter what look like as long as you take care of yourself. What attracts people is personality. Even shitty, vapid personalities are attractive to some people if they strike the right emotional chord. And most of that is their perception of your value. Do you value yourself? Do others value you? That's the key. That's why confidence is attractive.

BossPat · 2015-02-06T03:02:28+00:00

One thing i realized was that my standards were a little too high. Rejected a few girls who gave me attention in high school. Looking back i guess what i based on were pretty stupid. Like her glasses are like granny glasses. The other had a funny nose. Stuff like that even though i definitely had connections with them as friends.

I've been looking for too much like smart pretty etc pretty much at least an 8 or 9...
Fast forward to today i've been girlfriendless until few weeks ago. When this woman started to open up to me. We chat all the time. Flirt nonstop and just chill. she may not be the dream girl but now i've realized she doesn't have to be. The little things are more important and I am making sure that I don't make the same mistake again.

I'm not saying your standards might be too high but sometimes upon self reflection we may find what we may be doing wrong. Just keep at it and let the ladies see the real you that they will love.

aManPerson · 2015-02-06T00:24:51+00:00

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wusnoOk91 · 2015-02-06T00:21:10+00:00

Okay: this seduction thing like push and pull or pua techniques isnt imho great for getting relationships and it wont help you because that's not you for the moment at least! First you have to get in your mind that you don't have to be perfect to get girls. Secondly for women, otherwise than it is for men, it's far more important what you do than how you look and i get the feeling that this becomes more and more so the older the subjects become. So 1. doesn't matter! Don't compare yourself to others! It only hurts your self-esteem and that's true not only for you! You live your life, be content about it for the past, keep in mind, for success it's always the next step that matters - get the growth mindset!you haven't found a girl YET. Also i think Tinder isn't the perfect place to get girls that'd suit you. You're losing weight, so why don't you join a gymclass or weight watchers or sth to get to know beautiful women there. BOY 100 POUNDS, that is something!! 2./3./4. You really need to change the way you think! Magic pill, shorttermfix: go to a tabledancebar and order a lapdance. Longer & but more important way: it is always the people that love themselves truely that are most attractive. Learn to love yourself! Accept that you're not perfect or even attractive, but you do deserve love nevertheless! You're loveable nevertheless! That is what girls are attracted to. That is the mindset you have to show those girls. If you love yourself nevertheless and get the feeling that you don't need anybody to feel whole then outcome indepence and thus confidence will come :)

Throwaway64000 · 2015-02-06T01:15:12+00:00

1) Take actions that are within your power to make yourself more attractive (relative to society). Weight loss is an excellent example. Your can work around the parts outside your control.

2) Get things to be confident about. Take up hobbies and get good at them. Acquire accomplishments. Don't just do it for women, do it for your life.

3) I'll leave this to more experienced folk.

4) Self-improvement has a nice side-effect of distancing your current self from your past self. Stay upbeat about the present and the future. Fuck the past, that guy can't hurt you now.

hstndb · 2015-02-06T03:38:14+00:00

Hell ya man. Keep going. fuck tinder and online dating though. The things that you are doing are going to ultimately improve your life. The more that you improve your life and feel self satisfaction, the more you'll gain confidence across many facets in your life. Take on new hobbies, acquire new skills, and women and men will take notice of your strengths. Eventually, you start winning, and you won't be bitter and people will see your attractive side.

From your post I sense that you are driven, emotionally intelligent, and seem like a rather nice guy. Those are all great traits that women like.

FinnMcGuffin · 2015-02-06T04:31:07+00:00

Hey man, I feel your pain. I've suffered from depression as well and I've also dropped about 65 pounds in the last couple of years. I know a little bit about what your are going though. There isn't much you can do about your head, but there are lots of things you can do to fix your self confidence. Here's my advice:

Get the fuck of tinder. It's an app that is exclusively dedicated to superficiality. Even if you did hook up with the hottest girl on that app, how long would it be before she is judging you for something else? Look at other websites that allow you to show a little more personality.
Building your confidence-- Working out... building muscles.. it's all great, but it's only part of the equation. You should also do things you are proud of that you can talk about. Travel, develop a skill, etc. You'd be amazed at the conversaitions you can have if a lady knows you can cook, or knows a lot about wine, or camping, or cool thing you could be interested in. I have a friend found a girl by playing board games. It's all about what you love not trying to conform to some ideal.
Building an emotional connection with a girl who is going to last has very little to do with looks. When you go out to chat with girls don't be afraid of showing your interest. If she turns you down, think of it as a superficial person doing you a favor.
The good news is that you realize that you are angry and bitter and you are talking with a counselor about it. Women are people too. Their feelings can be hurt just like yours have been. It might be worth giving any prospective mate some patience and the benefit of the doubt.
Hope this helps.

bexielady · 2015-02-06T04:39:41+00:00

Congratulations on the weight loss! That's an amazing effort and you should be fucking proud. My advice/thoughts: Get the fuck off tinder. That's a bad place to be. I know a tonne of people (including myself) that have an awesome success rate on twitter. It'll give you that opportunity to work some low risk engagement with women and give your personalty a better chance to shine through. What kind of women are you looking for? Are you receptive to women? A lot of guys miss cues that women put out because they're usually too chickenshit to make any obvious moves without blatant assurance they won't get shot down. Don't put everything on your looks. I like fat nerdy bearded guys. They're my favourite thing. Not every girl wants a Channing Tatum lookalike. If all else fails watch the UK episodes of Jeremy Kyle and you'll see there truly is someone for everyone.

garblegarble12 · 2015-02-06T05:25:44+00:00

Hi. I was impressed by the low amount of bitterness in your post. Keep that up. From my experience women are interested in looks, but also bodies. Why not really push yourself at the gym? With a stand out body there are women who would be sexually interested. What's your job? How much do you make? Get your career in the right track and you will receive greater respect in the community and with that will come confidence. Communicate attraction? Build the body and they will come. Internal bitterness and anger? These will always be around until you fix the source of the problem.

Please don't try to fake it and project a false sense of confidence when you're not happy with where you are. Set yourself a goal to improve your body and career over the next 6-9 months. Then reward yourself by getting laid.

HumanHorseshoe · 2015-02-06T05:41:13+00:00

You keep up your kick ass work ethic and believe in yourself. That is by miles the most powerful tool. YOU. Believe in you and who you are/what you can be. Own it Live it. Love it.
It's easy, fake it! Guys think of other guys who are confident as arrogant and sometimes even douchey. Be that guy! Girls eat that shit up. I open up every tinder conversation with "I don't usually compliment women I just met, but you have excellent taste in men." Nearly everytime it gets a fun playful response and you can even try lines like that in real life. Pretend you are "the shit" and act like it and the girls will come.
I'm not exactly sure what you're asking. But it comes down to this, be bold, be confident, be playful. at the end of the day going 3 for 100 is better than going 1 for 3. So just put yourself out there Its a numbers game
see the answer to number two. it ALL starts with confidence. the only difference between a 10 and a 1 is that a 10 doesn't need confidence to do well, but a 1, 2, or 3 with confidence is just as attractive to a girl as any other guy any day

Tornadotoni · 2015-02-06T08:51:12+00:00

Kinda late and haven´t seen this mentioned. Have fun with people. If u can make someone happy they wont care that u dont look like a model, they are happy. I honestly believe that most people are good at heart and if u give them a chance to see for themselves who you are they might like it. But before that u will need to like yourself and work on yourself constantly.

On a sidenote I have the feeling that u are on the right tracck, just keep on improving! =)

tectonic9 · 2015-02-06T08:55:18+00:00

You're projecting. As a male, you probably find that your attraction to women is largely based on appearance. Women's attraction to men tends to be less about appearance, more about charisma and relative status. Appearance matters too, so it's great that you've been working on it. But don't let appearance be your excuse to give up rather than take risks.
Talk about (better yet, DO) the things that you're passionate about and good at.
Don't draw your self-worth from Tinder, the odds are against every guy there and in any other online dating setting. Girls there will be picky beyond what they'd merit in the real world because the guy to girl ratio means they can.
It didn't kill you, so use it to make you stronger.

Sounds like you're making a lot of great, positive changes. Step one is to let your self image catch up to your improved external self. Step two is to accept your strengths and acknowledge your weaknesses, and to stop relying on external validation from others.

2015-02-06T15:31:33+00:00

Fake it until you make it.

am1dha · 2015-02-06T16:58:35+00:00

How do I think of myself as an attractive guy when everything in society seemingly points to me being unattractive?

1) if you think you're unattractive, then that will be the image you project to anyone , regardless guy or girl. Cardinal rule of pickup : she will what you feel, you will get better understanding of this when you approach & fail. This is a journey not a sprint , read books on self esteem. Good one comes to mind is 6 pillars of self esteem . you need to start loving yourself - this is a must and a great start .

How can I project confidence when I have nothing to be confident about?

2) The more you work on yourself , the more confident you will get - you said you lost 100lb. That's not an easy fucking task. You are here wanting to work on yourself , isn't that a good enough reason ? I don't see every guy doing this....do you? 3. How can I communicate attraction to a woman without giving in to what I have learnt about my worth from them? I mean, If none of them think I am worth going out with on Tinder or in real life, that seems to point out to me that my stock is pretty low.

3) again, if you think - you're not worth going out with then why should the girl? Go out in real life and get reference points - not tinder. Tinder isn't going to show you world through your eyes. As far. Good start to communicating attraction is a) strong eye contact b) alignments in your thoughts words and action C) vocal tonality , intriguing and commanding

If you do this , you will set the right frame, again going out and practicing will get you there not Tinder!

How can I move past through internal bitterness and anger to project an image of an attractive person?

4) focus on what you have done right and not wrong , go out and approach a girl & fail - then tell yourself. Who the fuck would have the balls to do this? Finally , go out get a wingman and then simply focus on reference points & sticking points. Understand sticking points , look up material and then try and work on it. Have patience and it will switch , everything will switch

Best of luck 👍

Remember: if you don't think you're good enough , no one will Period.

dangarooo · 2015-02-06T02:47:11+00:00

Get off Tinder, man. I've never used the app but I assume it's just for people looking to hookup. You're a virgin man, save yourself for someone you care about. It will make it more special.

Get on OkCupid. If you have money to burn get on Match. Subscribe to r/okcupid and get some advice with setting up a profile.

Keep working on yourself man and keep your head up. Remember who you are doing it for: YOU. Don't do it for anyone else, do it for yourself.

nick_storm · 2015-02-06T06:05:03+00:00

I'm by no means a A&F model or some sexy shit, but I've been on dates, had girlfriends, got laid, etc. And, to be 100% honest with you, I don't think I've ever "gotten a long stare from a girl in public." I know, because I've thought about it lately. Why? To the best of my understanding, I think it's because girls/women aren't as immediately drawn to physical appearance/attraction—or, at least, they do a better job of hiding it. Hell, my own girlfriend admitted to me that she didn't think I was particularly hot, or attractive when she first saw me; only after she got to know me did she find herself attracted to me. So, if you're beating yourself up because girls aren't giggling when they walk past you or something, so what?

One thing that comes loud and clear from your post is a strong lack of self-confidence. You don't seem very proud of yourself, or confident. Once you start improving yourself first into someone you can be proud of, women will follow. No one wants to love a sad sack, you know? Work out, learn a language, gain a hobby... this will get you out of your shell, get you some neat stories to talk about and start conversations, gain confidence about who you are, etc. Not to mention, when you gain a hobby or two or three, you think about girls (and loneliness) less, because you're too busy to think about that stuff. THEN the girls come. "Build it, and they will come."

2015-02-06T03:10:15+00:00

You lost a 100lbs, thats great, keep getting in shape, get as lean as you can while holding onto as much muscle as you can. looks matter im sorry but being well dressed and being ugly and fat isn't going to get you anywhere.

you prob wont get anywhere on tinder, try IRL

tinder would work if you were shredded and aesthetic

MisterFenris · 2015-02-06T03:42:32+00:00

just try to do this:http://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/2s78g8/2015s_official_30_day_challenge_megathread/ i think it'll help you

2015-02-06T04:47:50+00:00

Realize, your probably depressed man. All humans are special. It'd say tackle the little things first (and get small victories). Doing the ever sizes where you approach women on a daily basis. Using 3 second rule and canned material and just throw yourself out there- talk to all women all the time.
Work on your career first and foremost. It will be very attractive if you have a passionate profession and feel good financially and stuff.
Every second working on yourself is time spent becoming more attractive to chicks. Keep going and subscribe to motivational sub reddits. Get a sign that says "No negativety allowed no excuses, quit being a little bitch and.........blank (insert whatever it/who it is you want .

jmalone1187 · 2015-02-06T04:57:58+00:00

Answer these questions and relate.

Do you generally enjoy where you're at in life?
What do you do for a living and are you damn good at it?
When you're out with friends, do you have a good time? Do they enjoy your company?

If you have a neutral or positive answer to these then you're golden my friend. As an example I'll list mine.

I'm still pushing to better myself. I live in a nice place, eat healthy, and have great friends around me.
I work in marketing but am a jack of many trades. My colleges look to me for knowledge and I hold a decent title at my job. Am I good? Yes, but I know I can be even better.
I'd say 90% of the time I fully enjoy hanging out with my friends. Most of that time span I'm the life of the group. People pester me most weekends and some key week days to come out.

Bam! You're the fucking man! Now bring all this to the table when your interacting with anyone let alone women. Also fuck Tinder, just say'n.

PS. The weight loss is incredible! Congrats on that and keep it up mate.

HonestyReigns · 2015-02-06T05:39:12+00:00

Listen up

All 4 questions can be cured by am answer to the first.

First Since you are man, you and society do not base your worth on looks. Every person on the planet is a slave to a gender role. The feminine gender role is to add beauty and babies to life. The masculine gender role is to produce for and protect himself and those under his influence. As long as your body and face are not majorly deformed or disfigured your as beautiful as you need to be. Muscle and money and today's defining factors of production and protection, they trump a nice face and shaved ass.

You are to society, nothing more than what you have built of body, mind, and materials

Second Society doesn't say your ugly. Society only points out the flaws you were already focusing on. And that's not society, that's you doing the pointing. Confidence will come when you stop basing your worth and value on looks. And on what society thinks of you. You're a man, no one really thinks men are beautiful anyway.

Last You are trying to fit the mold other individuals in society have set. Those individuals set them to their advantage, you'll never be top dog doing that. You have to define the lines of what's acceptable for you and others to do. It's important to remember to lead by example, not force.

2015-02-06T07:01:32+00:00

dude, just don't even think about yourself.

you will become attractive if at EVERY SINGLE MOMENT that you are interacting with someone else, your ONLY focus is how to make the other person feel better.

It sounds vague and it kind of is. And it's both dead simple and extremely hard at the same time. But just think about it and practice it. Eventually, you will know what people want and you will know what you can do to make them feel better.

Btw, just look at the post you wrote. How many "I"s are in there? You are too worried about yourself man. Don't sweat it. Even if you are the ugliest dude in the world, you can still make someone else happy.

Go try it. Good luck!

TheRedditorist · 2015-02-06T07:16:17+00:00

The short answer? Work on yourself, be the best you can be. Whatever you perceive about yourself, everyone else will see, there are no cheap parlor tricks or strategies that will help you in the long term. So invest in the person most worthy of your time, care, love and energy - that's you old chap. Also. Read. Read. and Read some more. EVERYONE has started where you have, it may not feel like it, and you may not believe me, but it is the truth. I saw myself very similar to you not too long ago, and were it not for the heroes in my books, the literature and self-education I have picked up along the way, I would not be here to help steer you in the correct direction. Wish you the best on your journey my friend.

nanno3000 · 2015-02-06T08:43:08+00:00

I think working out raises self worth ALOT. Just going to the mirror and being happy about your image can be very fun (no matter what you look like, but reaching goals makes that easier). Being fit is also a great sign to other people that you take care of yourself. So keep it going!!

Another way to display confidence is being in an environment that you feel comfortable in and ARE confident. Learn a skill which brings you into interaction with other people, and just do your thing.

DrQuaid · 2015-02-06T08:58:49+00:00

Im 19. Also a virgin. I lost 80 lbs last year, and have changed how i dress, started reading and meditating. I also have a skin disease that discolors my face a bit. Im still overweight, and depressed. I can kinda relate to your situation.

Its hard bro, but keep at it. Depression is tough to get over, and sometime we project how we feel out to others and it is off-putting or just gives people weird vibes. Meditating helps a little bit, you should try that and see if it helps with your confidence at all.

If you find something that works let me know.

pqu · 2015-02-06T09:25:58+00:00

My advice is to keep working on yourself, building muscle and living your life. The rest will happen gradually. You aren't used to your new body yet, your self confidence will come.

d4n0wnz · 2015-02-06T10:30:34+00:00

Answer for #2 : Fake it till you make it.

markrulesallnow · 2015-02-06T10:35:02+00:00

i swipe right on almost everyone on Tinder. don't be embarrassed bout ur tinder choices.

2015-02-06T12:09:18+00:00

the fact you lost over 100 pounds shows when you put your mind to something you can do it.

Now i dont know much about lifting and shit but i presume if you were to bulk your body would grow into that loose skin again perhaps? You should try that!

Ps dont let tinder bother you, its always been an app for the top 10%

agumonkey · 2015-02-06T12:18:28+00:00

Forget this view on confidence. Humans aren't not judge of value, unless you allow them to. I felt this way before, thinking I was inferior, then life adjusted, and this idea of being confident is moot in my head now.

I heard tinder was about fast hookups (or massive free validation for people already 'pretty' enough), meaning surface based, I guess don't use that for now.

People have said this here that I found interesting: don't try to be interesting to people, approach them in order to find the ones that are interesting to you.

ps: don't wanna sound patronizing, hoping it helps. Much luck to you.

helio2k · 2015-02-06T12:30:52+00:00

Feel hugged buddy!

2015-02-06T13:27:41+00:00

As far as Tinder is concerned... Since you're not following the 2 rules you might as well not have it. Especially if not getting any matches is hurting your self-esteem.

NightmarishPT · 2015-02-06T13:28:12+00:00

The first step you need to understand is that you don't have to be attractive.

Second, you can't really force it. Well, you can force it but you would need a lot of confidence, which you dont have. So just be yourself, put yourself out there, try new things. Don't be afraid to fail, failing is good, you learn from that.

2015-02-06T13:37:13+00:00

Read Mark Manson's 'Models: Attract Women Through Honesty'. The core principle in this book is 'to build true confidence you must build yourself'. Own your masculinity brother. Become strong in the body, wise in the mind and developed in the spirit. I cant stress the spirit part enough. Meditation gets you out of your head and into your body. So to answer your questions.

Society is based upon the mainstream narrative of people stuck in the 'durrrrr' phase that simply react and consume what they are told instead of thinking for themselves. There is a lack of critical and rational thinking. Society wants to keep you at the bottom and unfortunately many guys fall into this society trap where video games, junk food and instant gratification is enough for them. Realise that once you swallow this red pill that society's standards are nothing more than an illusion you form a new mindset which makes you a more attractive guy. In short. It doesnt matter what society says about you. That's for you to decide.
Simple answer is build yourself. You've dealt with alot of pain, rejection and alienation. Once you fucking push through you feel begin to feel fantastic. Keep pushing through and you WILL begin to feel like you are enough and get into an upward spiral. Once you feel like you are enough that alone is something to feel confident about.
What you have learnt is irrelevant. Your focusing on your past experience. Be present in the moment. I suggest meditating and learning to becoming less invested in other people's perception of you than your perception of yourself. Remember that Tinder doesnt mean shit. Its what you do in real life that matters for 99% of it.
Meditation, eating healthy, taking vitamins, working out, reading, enjoying your passions. RSD Tyler once said 'make a commitment to energy over your fucking crutches. You dont 'project' an 'image' of an attractive person. You simply are.

Strongly recommend checking out RSD Tyler's vids. They helped me when I had little confidence in myself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lqo86IvOJ0

2015-02-06T15:17:39+00:00

Keep yourself groomed dude. Shave your head, wear nice clothes, look like tony fuckin soprano. Women will see that and be intrigued. Have any female friends? Go out with them and all the girls will wonder who u are. When u make eye contact just smile, that'll do wonders; you'll attract them without saying a word. Hope this helps. I suggest u go on /r/theredpill and do those readings.

Cheers!

KER86 · 2015-02-06T16:37:30+00:00

I lost 100 lbs years ago and likely struggle with similar skin issues as you resulting from that, yet I've been able to overcome the struggle and make progress. I know it's hard, but if you can lose 100 lbs, you can do it. Look at my previous posts to find my overcoming the struggle story if you're interested.

eablokker · 2015-02-06T16:38:24+00:00

You have depression, so it's entirely possible and highly likely that you have had women who were attracted to you but your depression and your negative thoughts are telling you that you haven't. Never getting a long stare in public is not proof of never having someone attracted to you. Most of the time when someone is attracted to you there's no evidence at all. So you have to get to that place in your mind where your default assumption is that women are attracted to you. While it's not always true, at least you won't discount the ones who are, and you'll feel better about yourself. And you won't be looking for evidence of non-attraction to validate your belief that they're not attracted, you'll be noticing more positive evidence of attraction and feeling better about yourself instead.

pleiadiansean · 2015-02-06T16:55:03+00:00

I agree, looks only matter when you're young. They get older and want to settle down around 30.

Just work your way down the scale starting from 10s. Find your place.

bobleecarter · 2015-02-06T17:55:35+00:00

when everything in society seemingly points to me being unattractive?

Man fuck society! You don't need take shit from that motherfucker pointing at you unattractively. You can tell society to take its standards and shove it up its retarded asshole!

All you need yourself. Nigga, you set your standards of attractiveness for yourself. Don't be letting no one else do it. Think you're motherfucking attractive? Hell yeah! Think you can improve yourself? Go on and fucking do it!!

How can I project confidence when I have nothing to be confident about?

Nigga that's the shit I'm talking about right there. You should be 100% confident about every god-damn thing you do. Have nothing? Be nigga-burger-flippin' confident about that! Have the chest-hair to say I do absolutely-fucking-nothing and I'M GOD-DAMNED PROUD OF IT.

But man, you've fucking lost weight! That means you go to the gym or something. THAT'S SOMETHING TO BE PROUD OF and confident in.

There's a post here somewhere that tells you how to make your life more interesting. Number one advice I can give you man, make your life more interesting for yourself. Women are secondary. Make sure you're living the best life you can!

2015-02-06T17:58:12+00:00

time has come for you to stop giving a shit. do what you do with your fitness that will help you a long way, but you must try and do it subconsiously. the more you focus on attractiveness as a problem (which might be exaggerated by you and others as it is often the case) the more self-centered youll become. you project confidence by appearing to be immune to outside forces, enjoying yourself in a moment etc. efforts with women? dont make it a big deal like the stereotypical holywood highschool teenage dramas. currently your text does not strike me as confidence at all.

to sum it up. its great that you understand all of these things as a problem. now imagine yourself not thinking about them. be curious about the world and less about making yourself. you love yourself by not worrying too much.

also fuck tinder. are you trying to get people to like you with yourself or just your looks which is fairly small part of you as a person. yes physical attractiveness is important no doubt about that, but tinder only sells that and nothing else. try communicating other features of yourself, otherwise you are in big trouble.

if you look average (probably not ugly since strange features that seems like you labeled yourself like that) and you are not confident and even if you were confident - there might not be anything to communicate if you have no interests, knowledge, humour and you are just simply boring.... yeah then it kinda sucks. if reading this pisses you off then prove to yourself that this is not true.

2015-02-06T18:44:06+00:00

First let me say, your efforts at self improvement are commendable. Improving your body and image, and seeking advice are both things that women will find attractive.

However, for women, attraction isn't primarily physical. This is something that most men don't get, because they never look at things outside of their own perspective.

When a man see's a physically attractive woman, sexual attraction is a given. When a woman sees a physically attractive man, sexual attraction does not necessarily follow. And even if it does, sexual attraction isn't the only factor women consider when they decide whether to have sex with a man.

Attraction for women is based primarily on how a man makes them feel. Making her feel comfortable through humour is a definite "in". And once you've gotten her attention, don't put the focus on you. Learn the art of conversation - ask her questions, listen to her answer, build on what she says, and then tell her something related about yourself.

You are definitely right in asking about confidence, confidence goes a long way. What I would encourage you to do though, is identify things that you can be confident about. This doesn't have to be anything particularly special. Everyone has something they are good at.

You mentioned losing weight, and that's an accomplishment. Talk about going to the gym, training, dieting, everything you learned about weight loss. That is something to be confident about. Just avoid being cocky, don't blow your own trumpet. Just speak, speak confidently, be gracious when accepting commendation if offered.

My final piece of advice is not to focus on sex. Don't approach a woman with the intent to have sex with her. Even is all you want to do is have sex with her, don't think about that. First of all, she has a choice. After getting to know you, she may or may not want to have sex with you. You should also have the same perspective.

When approaching and talking to a woman, think of it as an interview - you are interviewing her to be with you. Take your time, don't rush to get her number, or ask her out. Always go in with the view that you may, or may not want her, depending on how you feel about her. And if you ask for her number, or invite her out, at that point you are making her an offer. Just like a job offer, she may or may not accept it. That's fine, there are other candidates.

FreeGuacamole · 2015-02-06T18:55:49+00:00

This may or may not help. When I was working at a distribution center I had a coworker that was the definition of an old ugly factory worker. He had like you, a receding hairline and was overweight. He was short had scraggly hair, always seem to be unshaven but never had an actual beard, seem like he never took a bath, always smelled bad. Like I said the definition of an ugly factory worker. However, one day he said he was taking a trip to the Philippines to meet this girl he was talking to online. Three weeks later he gets back with A hop in his step. I asked him how his trip went he said great. So I asked him who the girl was and when he showed me a picture of this girl I was blown away. She was hot. Not like hot for a 40 year old toothless old fat man gets hot, but a 24 year old average dude watches porn about these hot Asians. Oh yeah he doesn't have any front teeth and does not wear dentures. Anyways, he told me all about his trip and how she washed his feet, had him meet her family, and when he ran out of money for something she even paid for it. Last I heard she is trying to get a visa so they can get married but he has gone back to see her a few times. So anyways it sounds like they fell in love online and women of that culture don't hold looks as highly as Western women. I hope that helps. Good luck.

Cad42988 · 2015-02-06T21:29:18+00:00

i actually have a similar story to yours, only i lost the weight around age 20, and i actually consider myself to be attractive now. i think the real issue here is that you are putting too much value on attractiveness, your own, and likely that of others. imagine you have a huge pimple and youre going out for the night, the pimple only becomes more obvious the more you stress out about it. the same thing goes with attractiveness, if youre stressed about your lack of attractiveness it will only make it worse. my advice is to just pretend youre the most attractive guy in the room, and then play the numbers game. flirt with a variety of girls, not just the 8<'s. even if you arent attractive to a girl its beneficial to flirt with them, it will raise your self esteem, help you gain skills in flirting, and make you seem more attactive to other girls. practice makes perfect man! gl hf dd.

SDkyle · 2015-02-17T19:15:42+00:00

I feel your pain, I know its tough to approach girls and talk to them. Think of them like potential best friends instead of just creatures you can have sex with. You seem like a person who can hold an intelligent conversation with different people of over many subjects, use that to your advantage. Just spark up random conversations with women and don't worry about where it leads you. Most important thing in life I think is to not care what other people think, especially in this day when most people are "trolls". And if you want to have sex only "Go until they say No" meaning keep escalating hand on their back, kiss, hand on her *****, you will be surprised how far you can get. Goodluck man stay positive and love life you're lucky to have one.

LegitAnswers · 2015-02-06T05:15:54+00:00

How do I think of myself as an attractive guy when everything in society seemingly points to me being unattractive?

Improve yourself. Work out, learn something new everyday, experience new things as much as possible, get out of your comfort-zone, and socialize. If you have an attractive life, people will find you attractive. Just know that women are less superficial about looks than men. Men are coveted for their success. Women are coveted for their beauty.

How can I project confidence when I have nothing to be confident about?

Again, improve yourself. Be good at something. Confidence doesn't come out of nowhere. It comes from experience and being good at something.

How can I communicate attraction to a woman without giving in to what I have learnt about my worth from them? I mean, If none of them think I am worth going out with on Tinder or in real life, that seems to point out to me that my stock is pretty low.

Again, IMPROVE YOURSELF. Your worth is what you make of it. Do something with your life and make it interesting. Take martial arts, go to the gym, go to the club, go on awesome vacations, do something that makes your life attractive and people will follow you.

How can I move past through internal bitterness and anger to project an image of an attractive person?

This is all internalized. You're bitter because no one is attracted to you (romantically). Just accept that society doesn't cater to any single person... And don't expect it to. Doing so only sets you up for failure. This same concept goes for women, as well. Don't expect them to like you.

I know how to speak to people, and I have quite a few friends that are women. The problem is that i've never had anyone attracted to me.

You say you know how to speak to people, but I don't think you know how to speak to women in regards to romance. The media has told men that by being nice, we get a girlfriend in return. That's bullshit. To be attractive, you have to have a dominant personality: You must make decisions and stick to them, be assertive, be confident, and don't take shit just from anybody. The complete opposite of some nice-guy.

And here's the thing about nice guys: A lot of new guys here have this perverse socio-karmic idea of the universe. They believe that by trying to behave like a good person, good things will happen to them. That's not realistic. This goes for dating and life in general. Just because you act nice, play nice, and help/praise people all day doesn't give you some karma that you can cash in and benefit from. That's not how the world works. And even then, you're not doing things out of the pure goodness of your heart, but for some idea that you'll get something in return. It's bullshit either way.

You have to work for everything as a man.

In my experiences, women get catered to a LOT more than men, with women having their shit done/bought for them all the time. Some (not all) feel really entitled and whole-heartedly believe that society (read men) is there to cater to them. But that only goes for the 8-10/10 girls out there. Sometimes even the 6-7/10s can reap those benefits.

Not the 5/10s and below. And especially not you. You're a guy. Unfortunately for us, we have to actually make something of ourselves for someone to actually be attracted to us (romantically).

You have to accept that men are only valued for what they can provide, whether that be good company, finances, experiences, whatever. If you don't DO anything, you'll never benefit from anything. So improve yourself physically, socially, mentally (be smart!) and financially before you even think of getting a girlfriend. And don't be that nice-guy kiss-ass who expects something in return (i.e. sex) for being a 'good person'. That's bullshit.

Fatpandasneezes · 2015-02-06T05:54:01+00:00

Who cares what society thinks? Who cares if you're overweight? Be a decent guy, and the right girl will find you. Or you'll find her. Don't worry about making it happen, or how it'll happen, because it'll happen when the time is right.

Overweight means nothing. It doesn't mean you won't find a girl, it doesn't mean your worth is lower. /r/amiugly probably has one or two people tells everyone who posts there that they are. Just as /r/gonewild has one or two people who tell every girl who posts there that they want to sleep with them. It's just how the subreddit works.

Confidence is a big thing. And, I don't know how to tell you how to do that, but I do know one thing. I'm 24/F. I'm about 120 lbs, 5'1, and I'm Asian, not super hot, but I don't think I'm too bad either. My boyfriend is overweight. I think his goal is probably to lose what you already have. Do people give him looks in the street?...... Honestly, I don't know. My eyes are for him. Does he have the best self confidence? Well, to anyone who meets him, they definitely think so. I thought so when we first met. We've been dating 2 years now.

Being societally attractive means nothing. Who cares what society thinks. What matters is what you think. Like Dr Seuss says, those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

Love yourself. You're worth it.

throfosho888 · 2015-02-06T11:15:42+00:00

Before you meet a girl that likes you you've got to learn to be happy by yourself. Keep going to the gym and build muscle. It's what I did. I can't imagine where I'd be without it. The confidence you get from looking at yourself topless and being happy is ridiculous. Also girls love big arms and chests. You'll get more attention from them and get more confidence. And when you get that confidence hit a bar and talk to girls. Doesn't matter if you fail with a few, that's were the confidence comes in! You WILL meet someone who likes you, just be patient and don't try and force it.

2015-02-06T00:35:56+00:00

Awesome, doing really amazing things so far. Your questions hold no gravity, 1,2 and 3 relate to confidence and how you value yourself which I see as being answered by your weight loss and desire to better yourself, it takes time. 4 is far far deeper and working with your therapist will help greatly with unresolved issues and make you a better person!

Regardless, you state you have nothing to be confident about, what else do you do in life? The gym only takes up so much time as does work. That leaves vast tracts of time to DO and BE. So what are you DOING? Use your interests and DO, be PASSIONATE about something, ANYTHING.

Ahhhsi · 2015-02-06T00:57:19+00:00

I can actually relate to this. I recently went through a pretty major weight loss. I've always been able to talk to woman but never really had any interested in me. You need to not use tinder as a way to measure your attractiveness. I had more luck with match.com. Not too mention you'll notice the looks from woman. I remember when I first got that look. It wasn't a long look as the movies would have you believe, just a look up and down and a smile. You seems like you really have to work on yourself first. Learn that perfection is not beauty. You have to love yourself for who you are. Pm me if you want to talk further.

unSeenima · 2015-02-06T01:06:04+00:00

I'm not a guru or anything but here's what I have to input:

You will need time to develop into the person you're trying to be, physically and personally. Just focus on developing yourself and your confidence will come through, as will your personality. You're not young so it's not like you're not developed mentally, but I still think you will grow a lot in the next year if you keep working at it. Find what you're good at AND find what you want to be good at. Hone in on those two things and you're golden. You don't need to be perfect.. just be the best version of yourself.

2015-02-06T01:44:49+00:00

My advice? Stop looking. You know how when you can't find a thing in your house? You look for it day after day after day and never find it? So you finally give up and a week later you find it under your dresser? Stop looking. Don't give up on a love life, if you see a chance go for it. But don't actively search it. Do what you do normally. Look for a friend first. An SO will follow. Because honestly it doesn't matter what others think, it matters what that one girl thinks. You just have to find that one girl. But I can tell you now from experience, the most confident people are the ones who just do them. Don't be someone you think ladies well like. Because that might not be you. The right person will find you at the right time. You don't want her attracted to the wrong you. (Btw congrats on the 100lbs that's no small step in life, and anyone who says otherwise is a dick)

Codyccm · 2015-02-06T01:59:37+00:00

This is really just to answer your second question,http://www.ted.com/talks/amy_cuddy_your_body_language_shapes_who_you_are?language=en take a look, and good luck man! You are worth it and loved by so many more people than you'd expect!

ghlibisk · 2015-02-06T02:53:10+00:00

Video of Advice for "hard case" newbies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OVZ9xk1B-o

2015-02-06T02:57:53+00:00

Think you can't get hot chicks as a fat guy? Think again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUy3_kBme4M

2015-02-06T04:40:56+00:00

1 answer to all four questions: fake it til you make it.

(also, related: go to the gym, and learn not to give a fuck about how other people see you)

DBPickles · 2015-02-06T05:14:41+00:00

Here's some of my advice/experience I can give to you, only recently lost my virginity at 22.

-When people say it's so easy after you have to sex. It really is, but there is no way that helps you. All I can say is that it does get way easier to NGAF.

-Stop masturbating. Go cold turkey or do it like once a week. It really gets you motivated to find a girl to replace your hand with. -lower your standards. A problem a lot of guys have is subconsciously having high standards and not giving some girls a chance.

-Try Tinder, how I first got laid. She was a really nice/cool girl too. -Wear a condom.

smartello · 2015-02-06T07:48:06+00:00

I will die immediately if I lose 100 pounds, so you can look at me and say like: "try to do what I did, champ". Seems like you will be super confident.

I weight 150 pounds but I don't think it is important in the given context.

2015-02-06T13:46:38+00:00

How do I think of myself as an attractive guy when everything in society seemingly points to me being unattractive?

Attraction doesn't happen just because of your physical looks. It is true you may not be attractive in a sense we mean it at the moment but the last thing you should think is that attraction is based on physical appearance that comes from your genes.

What you should do is; study the material a little and go out, have the mindset that "all women want you, but they are too shy to approach you. You will not play hard to get and tease her about it at the same time."

There are things other than physical looks that you will have to develop for your own and they matter hundred times as much as physical attraction.

Test: create a tinder profile with the photo of a very handsome male model from Instagram. But talk to girls as you talk to them now. Chances are nobody will want to meet you; because they will see through the facade and sense insecurity and neediness.

Also don't use tinder. Just delete it. Girls are outside, not inside your phone.

How can I project confidence when I have nothing to be confident about?

Simple. You can go climb rocks, jump with a parachute , free fall with gliding gear or start fights with buffed criminals. That or;

You can fake it until you make it. Women will notice. What I suggest is that watch a few Sean Connery James Bond Movies. Digest how he interacts with women, how he moves, talks, smiles, touches, teases, treats women. Repeat them in front of the mirror and try to look like James Bond, sound like him. Once you are sure; go out and act like James Bond for one day. It will make a HUGE difference. You can't go wrong with this. In time you will develop your own confidence looking back at all the beautiful women you charmed BY YOURSELF, it wasn't Sean Connery but you doing the pickup. To help you, dress like him too for starters. You can change your style later on.

How can I communicate attraction to a woman without giving in to what I have learnt about my worth from them? I mean, If none of them think I am worth going out with on Tinder or in real life, that seems to point out to me that my stock is pretty low.

Reset all your pre existing beliefs right now. What you have learned about your worth has been because how you acted. Yeah, you were an insecure, needy, nice guy wuss, the past is the past man, you are James Bond from now on. You will not use these (and you can't ) to hit on women who was rejected you anyways. For every woman you approach, you are someone new they haven't known about but will want to.

All women want you. ALL WOMEN WANT YOU. You are not a rude macho loser who will go accuse them and tell them they have no chance with you one by one; but you are a confident, calm, high status man who will read them and drop in lines like "okay... You're screwing up your chances with me.. " and focus on other things in the environment than her cleavage or her eyes. Repeat this aloud to yourself : "ALL WOMEN WANT ME" believe it, close your eyes and let a n image of yourself dressed in a suit and tie rain around you. You are that man now . Act like it.

Tinder does not let you approach women. Why would you use it? Are you an insecure wussy afraid of rejection in real life? No! That's what tinder is for : Guys who think "I can't handle women telling me "I am not interested in you, sorry" to my face. My ego can't take it. I will swipe every fat woman right until one desperate enough wants to talk to me"

You are James Bond from now on. Not "uhh I m too afraid to approach in real life , uhh I want to booty call desperate sluts" you see a woman, you decide if she looks good enough for your high standards, you know she wants you, you approach her, and you qualify her in a cocky funny way to see if her personality is worth your time too. DOES JAMES FUCKING BOND FUCKING 007 SIT DOWN ON GOLDFINGER'S GOLF CLUB AND SWIPE FAT SLUTS ON HIS FUCKING PHONE??? NO! He confidently approaches the hottest blonde on the golf course, and with calm, collected smile ; comments on she should not hit the gold ball like she moves the hay back at her parent's stables, and offer to teach her, grab her golf club without waiting for her to allow him, and teacher her with a sly smile.

How can I move past through internal bitterness and anger to project an image of an attractive person?

Quoting from Giuseppe Notte

Let’s talk a bit about SELF-RESPECT. People who think they are worth nothing or want to be treated like shit WILL BE treated like shit. How do you expect anyone to respect you if you don’t even respect yourself? Be able to stand up for yourself whether you’re dealing with women or men. How you see yourself and what you think of yourself influence your behavior, and people will respond to you accordingly. Being depressed and having negative thoughts will get you nowhere. Your thoughts form your personality. Those who have negative thoughts and see everything as gray will attract such things into their lives. People who learn to control their thoughts and strengthen themselves with positive affirmations become successful. “I don’t deserve this. I’m such a loser. I’m worth nothing. My life is a waste. Nothing works for me. I’ll never get any girls.” Eliminate those destructive thoughts for good. “I’m a real Man. I know what I want, and I know how to get it. I have goals in my life, and I am motivated to reach them. I’m successful with women and successful in everything else. I enjoy my smallest achievements and stay proudly on my path whatever life brings. I’m open to new experiences and ideas, learning from my faults and able to change myself in a good direction.” That’s what you should say to yourself every day.

Sorry about the typos but you don't have time to lose ,man. Watch those movies, get in character , and go out tonight. The sooner you begin the sooner you will meet your dream woman . Don't be yourself, be the best version of yourself.

Dacimk · 2015-02-06T17:45:46+00:00

Dude stick it out for one more year,become a wizard,and get all the girls.

Llleblanc1986 · 2015-02-07T05:18:22+00:00

Check out Cory Skyy lifestyles. It's your beliefs man, it all boils down to the fucked beliefs you have about yourself

statclasssucks · 2015-02-06T03:52:18+00:00

If you feel that your ugly get plastic surgery you already got passed the hardest part which was losing the weight. Keep trying your hardest to reach whatever your goal is.

Title	29 Year old virgin - 4 questions
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	250
Comments	138
Date	February 5, 2015 11:49 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/2uxeoc/29_year_old_virgin_4_questions/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/29-year-old-virgin-4-questions.1383496 https://theredarchive.com/post/1383496

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