Being too 'gamey' as a beginner?

Janemba_Corvalis · 2018-12-05T20:17:33+00:00

One of the driving points I've learned from seduction is that it's best to just be yourself. That's what your best at. You can't always try to force this cocky/funny persona in order to impress women. The goal is to have genuine connections, for me anyway. Not everything is a shit test. I think people get all caught up in trying to maneuver "shit tests" and ultimately lead themselves to failure. I think you are being too calculated. Be more flow-y, as in go with the flow more.

You're definitely overthinking some stuff, but it's good to have these thoughts. You're trying to improve yourself and noticing your flaws.

pilipinonguci11 · 2018-12-05T22:35:56+00:00

Read "Models" by Mark Manson.

TL;DR: Yes, you are massively overthinking this shit. Not everything a woman does is a shit-test. Not everything a woman does is a test to see how "alpha" you are. Not everything a woman does is her playing games with you.

Be willing to be direct, open, honest, and emotionally vulnerable to all the women you meet. If a girl invites you to something, and you genuinely want to go, just go. Don't focus on whether you're "chasing her" or if that makes you "alpha" or "beta". Assume that women aren't shit-testing you or playing games.

If she asks you why you want to meetup, again just be open and direct with your intentions. If you tell her you want to meetup again because she seems interesting and cool and you want to get to know her better, and she messages back "aww that's nice", that's not her writing you off as a chode. That's her showing her appreciation for being willing to be open and honest with your intentions.

I think the problem with learning too much game is that it causes some guys to overthink this shit that, frankly, doesn't really matter that much. The way I like to think of it is like this: Do you think Leo DiCaprio is analyzing a girl's text for an hour figuring out if it's a shit-test or not? Or does he just respond openly and honestly, and then go lives a kickass lifestyle and knows that if the girl isn't interested he can find other attractive women to get?

That should be your mentality as well.

mseand · 2018-12-05T20:21:22+00:00

In terms of words, what I could say is use softeners.

Like instead of saying, “you’re really fun” say “you’re actually kind of fun”. There are many ways of playing around with it but it really comes down to getting a deeper understanding of language itself.

What you have to do is to show that you’re interested without giving too much power away. At the same time you have to figure out the blueprint of the girl you’re talking to and find the proper ratio of value and comfort that she requires for her to go home with you.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Edit: you have to take her serious man, she’s a human being who needs to be seduced

recyclablebanthas · 2018-12-06T02:57:47+00:00

1

So I've really been doing game for like a month now, with some ok-ish beginner results (2 kcloses on the dancefloor, one number close, out of like 10 approaches in total, also writing with 2 girls on social medias currently to further my textgame)

Couple things:

Ask yourself, what is "game?" At its heart, it's really nothing more than social interaction. Which you have been doing, ever since you've been around people. So you didn't really start doing game a month ago. What you did was start thinking about how to get a different result from your social interactions.
Text game is a bit of a red herring. There are too many variables in play when you send text over to a person: there are so many different ways that someone can interpret things or accidentally assume subtext that may or may not be there. You're better off not considering "text" to be game, at least not in the beginning. Focus on getting "in person" stuff down before you fuss about text "game."
It's a bad idea to try to open strangers on social media. If that's what you're doing, it's counter-productive. Text game is more about maintenance of an already built connection with someone.

2

But all the game stuff is starting to get to my head, I'm constantly overthinking my texts, things I said, etc.

This is why they say not to text at all. Which goes a little too far, but the point stands that text isn't something you should be fussing over. If you're sending texts that are so complicated that you find yourself analyzing them, then you're putting too much energy into the texts and too much energy after the fact.

3

For example, if a girl asks me a question like "why do you want to meet up" or somesuch, I ask myself whether I should just be a normal person and write 'you seemed interesting so I'd like to see you again, quite simple really' (the usual response to this is 'oh thats nice to hear' or a viariation of that - already her signing me off as just another chode giving her validation?) or do the cocky/funny PUA approach (because according to various resources you should never directly answer a women's questions like this) and basically treat it like a shit test. Because the essence is, I eye everything suspiciously now and always default to 'Is this a shit test or a genuine, innocent question?'

If someone is asking that question to begin with, it means you have failed in the social interaction leading up to that.

Think about it. Say you are having a really great conversation with someone you enjoy talking to. The conversation is just taking off and the general feeling is that there wasn't enough time to talk. Someone in that sort of interaction isn't going to ask, "Why do you want to meet up?" any more than someone who likes donuts is going to ask, "Why should we go to the donut shop?"

You're focused on dealing with the symptoms, when you need to go back to the source and fix the initial problem or no amount of "game" is going to help.

For example, in this case, the easy fix is to change a few things up so you have a better chance of connecting in that initial interaction.

Focus on actively listening to the one you're talking to. Hint: If your thoughts are devoted to what you want to say next, while they're talking, then you're doing it wrong. All your brain power should be on taking in what was said.
Follow up based on what she just said. Take some part of it and follow up, digging in to get at her motivations or emotions. Example: She just moved there? How does she like it there compared to where she was before? Or, what motivated her to make the move?

4

Or like, if a girl asks me during a weekday evening if I want to come along because she's doing thing x right now, which would mean I'd have to get dressed, drive there, etc etc. Do the PUA 'Alpha' approach of making her chase, aka declining, saying you're too busy rn (=> not being too available) Or getting over the fact that this might make me look a bit too eager and just go.

Dude. WTF

Make her chase?! She was asking you out! She was initiating! That's pretty much chasing, and if this is a real event that happened, then thinking about it this much was like looking a gift horse in the mouth.

You are describing a fish trying to jump into the damn boat. And this response of seeing the inconvenience of it, or trying to play all these games because you're afraid you look weak..... this response amounts to you trying to cockblock yourself.

This shit is NOT rocket science, even if some of the PUAs out there might make it seem so. When people are attracted, they make shit easier for you. When they're not attracted, suddenly everything will be more difficult; they won't be available, won't offer alternative suggestions to hang out, etc.

The real concern you should have had when she asked if you wanted to join her, was "Would it be fun?" Would the time and effort it takes to get there, be worth the enjoyment of being around her or doing the thing she was suggesting?

Worried that you'll be too eager? Then you need to have a damn life outside of dating. If you don't, then fix that. Don't play games that screen out reasonable people from the people you end up dating, because then you end up with a shitty dating life, which only adds to the shit.

5

Some more hardcore PUA schools of thought preach the way of never taking her seriously, avoiding compliments and never validating her.

These "hardcore PUA schools of thought" are immature, fear-based, and encourage actions that lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy. Because when you treat people that way, it has a way of screening out people who don't want to be treated poorly or don't want to deal with manipulative people. The only ones who will stick around for that, are manipulative people or people with a poor view of themselves.

People who believe that this is the way, are usually suffering from confirmation bias; because they accidentally screen non-manipulative people out of their lives and are left with manipulative people, they start to think everyone is manipulative. When the truth is that they've biased their sample and created a bubble for themselves.

6

But to me saying things like 'It'd be nice to meet you again' or 'you're interesting' 'what day works for you' and such are neither beta nor chasing, value leeching or what have you.

It would be nice to meet you again, is fine. Though it's better when it's earned by an interaction where you've connected.
Same with, "You're interesting." Though saying she's interesting, is worthless unless you give context for that. Without that context, it can easily come off like you're saying it to ingratiate yourself to her/be a bootlicker. Your compliment SHOULD supply a reason in the same sentence or it's cheap.

canarywocoalmine · 2018-12-05T20:28:03+00:00

Yes, you are probably overthinking it, but
At this stage, consider it all an experiment. You're learning, so variation is good. Remember your goal is not to get any one girl but to get good at the process of getting girls
Someone else mentioned be yourself. Part of that is experimenting and seeing what fits your style. I'm a smartass and really good at teasing. I'm not as good at sexualizing conversations. So I'm trying to experiment with that to get comfortable.

Radicalmattitude1 · 2018-12-05T22:59:23+00:00

I’d say you’re on the right track, but you should be trying to integrate this stuff into your life. Think of the PUA stuff like training wheels. Yeah you can learn on the routines and have “success” with women by running the perfect game. But at the end of the day, that’s still like learning how to mountain bike with training wheels on. Why would you even want that?

Wouldn’t you rather learn to ride shittily with no training wheels than be the best training wheel rider in the world?

The whole “should I play it coy or should I show interest” thing is solvable once you get to the point where interfacing with beautiful women is a fun activity that you enjoy. I know this is kind of a nebulous answer but that’s the best I can give without drawing on more theory and adding to the noise.

I’d say to just keep at it and try both approaches -> show tons of interest and push for the meetup, play it cool and try to make her chase you. Find the sweet spot in the middle and try to discover the deeper lesson behind the theory.

Nicely_Colored_Cards · 2018-12-05T22:17:46+00:00

Wait out of 10 approaches you kclosed 2? Thats not bad, man :) Care to share how that went down?

eht_amgine_enihcam · 2018-12-06T13:55:16+00:00

The way I see things is, you have to be confident in yourself. No matter what anyone does, unless it's a close member of your friend or family, or your boss, it shouldn't affect you too much. Who cares if it's genuine or a shit test? If you're confident you generally reply to it in the same way. For the driving thing, if I was busy, I wouldn't go. If I had nothing to do, but the thing she was suggesting doing was boring, I'd either try to change the activity, or not go.

You said your reply would be that you found her interesting. As a girl, I wouldn't like this, since it's:

Vague. If it was commenting on something personal (usually not looks, but aesthetic is good) you usually get good replies.

Weak. It seems like you don't want to make your intentions clear from fear of getting rejected.

Things like what day works for you are fine, but I'd recommend suggesting a day first. I usually ask them "do you want to get a smoothie (someday)" (they all go to the same smoothie place, the girls who work there laugh at me now). They'll either say no (not keen) I'd like to but I'm busy (ask them which day they're free) or yes (date). However, if you just put the impetuous on them to make a decision for when they want to have a date, the path of least resistance is just to not go on a date.

I'd also shy away from text as much as possible apart from setting up logistics. You can't convey nuance at all, so a hilarious joke might just upset her since you can't see her mood.

Finally, be really careful internalizing some of the pickup stuff, as it's harmful toward relationships.

Funkimonkey · 2018-12-07T12:29:36+00:00

PUA stuff is a little outdated. Tactics can help but you really just need the frameworks.

First off though, get A LOT more practice. 10 approaches is nothing. We used to do 50-100 per night unless a girl was really hooked.

Practice beats anything else. It’s like going to the gym to get muscles instead of just watching fitness advice on YouTube.

If you go to the bar and don’t approach, that’s like going to the gym and just looking at the weights.

Second, you can do both. Don’t sacrifice your personality - that will burn you long term and just make you a robot.

Just slowly incorporate strategies as you learn them.

The best thing you can do is keep fucking up though. Then sit down and figure out how you messed up. If you can’t, then find a good wingman who can help you.

Crixusgannicus · 2018-12-05T21:27:05+00:00

There are no genuine innocent questions in this "line of work".

You have to find your own style.

Boxing metaphor. If Ali had tried to fight Tyson's style he would NEVER have been champion and vice versa. Go on youtube and look at their fights if you have no idea what I mean. It'll be educational.

Like me for example. I'd probably say something like "I never said I did...I said I might want to" EVEN if I literally just had just said I want to meet up. BUT, that sort of thing fits my overall demeanor so it works for me. One of my high school coaches used to call me Clark Gable. Had no idea what he meant until I looked at some old movies, specifically Gone with the Wind. But the thing is that's not game for me, that's just me.

Like others have said you have to be you, even that's an..let's say evolved you. You have to find what works for you and the ONLY way to do that is the hard way. Just try stuff. School of hard knocks.

skinisblackmetallic · 2018-12-05T22:49:35+00:00

Questions don’t require answers that have actual informative content... or even answers. Mostly they just require a certain attitude.

PossibleParty · 2018-12-06T01:18:51+00:00

If you want meaningful relationships, be an authentic person. Don't NOT go somewhere when a girl invites you because you want to be "alpha". If you want to go, fucking go. That's what it's about. Do whatever YOU want, and use the information here to supplement your game, not change who you are. You COULD be honest and go with "you seem interesting so I'd like to see you again" blah blah but in general that IS boring response, although not a bad one.

You could spice it up with something that shows YOUR personality and not one of a PUA.

ArcanineTheGrey · 2018-12-06T01:46:03+00:00

The best way to learn is to be yourself. Example: if you are too nice to her and she gets turned off and leaves you for it, I promise you you will not feel as nice the next time you are in a similar situation. It's important to trust your own instincts and your intuition's ability to grow in response to feedback. Let yourself fail in order to grow

Kydilee · 2018-12-06T03:03:05+00:00

Which school preaches "don't compliment"? I say that's a dick move. Sparse, fine. None? Not cool.

str8toking · 2018-12-06T05:14:27+00:00

Actually, principle based PUAs teach not to just be yourself, but to be your BEST self ( like TNL, etc)Being your untechnical PUA self wasn't getting you what you expected, so be yourself at your most mindful, thoughtful self. So initially this is practiced and full of doubt about your actions, but with enough time, approaches, closes, and cool ass personal life experiences, you should already be a progressively better person (naturally) from the start of this journey in seduction. Someone with more experience can break this down further (if they agree), although other commentators already have alluded to what I'm trying to highlight.

MetalPandaDance · 2018-12-06T00:51:59+00:00

For example, if a girl asks me a question like "why do you want to meet up" or somesuch, I ask myself whether I should just be a normal person and write 'you seemed interesting so I'd like to see you again, quite simple really' (the usual response to this is 'oh thats nice to hear' or a viariation of that - already her signing me off as just another chode giving her validation?) or do the cocky/funny PUA approach (because according to various resources you should never directly answer a women's questions like this) and basically treat it like a shit test.

This specifically has me wondering. From what I gather here and from PUAs is being as direct as possible is the way to go. Not necessarily spelling it out for the girl, but showing interest and romantic intent with touching and others forms of intimate, but safe contact. But if the girl just asks you like in your example, I'd think you can be honest and tell her, "I like you, we should hang out" since she's inviting that directness. Genuinely curious since I'm even more noob than OP.

ghetto_tuesdays · 2018-12-06T00:54:51+00:00

Way overthinking everything. Go read

Models : by Mark Manson

ASAP. If you have questions about ANYTHING after that such as. Well how do I get started now that I’ve read a book.

Read

The Trial : by Avery Hayden

Now the only really issue left is.

I do not know how to talk to people.

Read

How to Talk to Anyone :by Leil Lowndes

Good work bro keep up the hard work!!

Title	Being too 'gamey' as a beginner?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	99
Comments	43
Date	December 5, 2018 7:51 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/a3fusw/being_too_gamey_as_a_beginner/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/being-too-gamey-as-a-beginner.1458076 https://theredarchive.com/post/1458076

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