DAE think that the advice on r/dating_advice is hugely flawed and most of the questions should really be answered by r/seduction?

Firstly, amongst our mods are 2 professional PUA coaches. Obviously they can't comment on EVERY post which goes through D_A but they input where it counts. I'm personally a sedditor, although I mostly lurk here as people have generally got the advice they need by the time I show up.

Yes, a lot of the questions are "how do I get out of the friendzone" but D_A was created because before, all these questions were popping up in r/relationships and people there were getting annoyed, so we made a more specalised sub for it.

However, the main reason that we feel we offer something which r/seduction doesn't is that we try to give advice which will build a lasting relationship. This is our main goal. It is much harder to build a happy, lasting relationship than it is to fuck a skank that you've taken home from a club. Not that I'm judging - some people like to do that, and whatever people do behind closed doors is fine by me. Often our advice is just covering the basics of escilation. For SO MANY people, all they need explained to them is "You have to touch someone to make them think of you as more than a friend and man the fuck up" and they report back with successful stories. But other times advice is much more complicated and I believe couldn't be successfully given by seddit, due to the overwhelming amount of people who would say "act alpha, own that shit, abundence mentality or some other catchphrase". Relationships are SOMETIMES about give and take and that is what we give that you don't.

To put another slant on this; I was recruited from a series of comments I made on a post in r/seduction. An r/relationships mod was try to find people here who knew their stuff but who weren't morally bereft. I basically defended the fact that seduction is like a weapon; you can use it for good or for evil. Our opinion is that a lot of people become dicks after discovering seddit... my housemate is a prime example... He can make out with 5 girls a night but he can't ever get a second date.

You can argue that any thread which gives advice gives bad advice, even seddit. To be honest, some of my worst have been on seddit, by complete armchair pickup wannabes probably. However, I would say that because r/D_A is a newborn community and is still growing exponentially that our advice can only improve over time.

prepares to get flamed

EDIT: lol - why are people still downvoting this when it has 40 points and 50 children?? anyhoooo... Great to see a mix of opinions here. I guess seddit isn't quite as doomed as I thought :P

EDIT2: added information

EDIT3: There has been a lot of reference to r/relationship_advice. r/relationship_advice is a trolly hell-hole. The original creator made it for trolling purposes Don't go there. Ages ago, in a galaxy far away, some of the mods defected and set up r/relationships, which is (geeenerally) fantastic and well modded! r/dating_advice is affiliated with (some of the same mods, we all talk to each other fairly regularly, we have a multi-page. that sort of thing) r/relationships not r/relationship_advice.

EDIT4: Tons of people are saying that I am wrong to think that everyone on seddit is how I have described SOME sedditors. Obviously everyone here is different. Some people will never need D_A, just like some people at D_A will never need seddit. It is meerly my opinion that many people here could use D_A.

[–]NickTDS 58 points59 points60 points 15 years ago* (26 children) | Copy Link

Hey guys,

I'm one of the mods at dating_advice and former PUA coach for 3 years (5+ years involved). I've worked in the industry with some of the top coaches and big name companies. I was also the primary coach at the local lair with over 200+ members. Here's my take on things:

The theories that pickup teach work -- don't get me wrong. But after years of being in the community, I realized how unhealthy things had become. Mysoginy, objectifying women, competition, ego stroking, bragging, and so much more.

Entropy is probably the best PUA coach around (IMO) and he said it perfectly:

"There is absolutely NOTHING normal about what a Pick Up Artist does or why he does it. Dating advice is one thing. Self improvement is another. But quantifying your social and emotional life and then measuring it against others online and for money will murder your soul. Plain and simple. You’re getting sucked into the validation trap, which turns into a very dark place if you stay there long enough. The fact is, what is perceived as “the community,” is merely a loud minority. An elitist and somewhat pathological minority."

Half of the coaches and guys I've worked with lost sight of just being a normal person. Everything becomes an obsession with being alpha, being better than "AFCs", gaming, etc to the point where there's almost no human element. Every guy has to go out to sarge instead of having a fun time. Every girl becomes an HB, every question is a qualification, every interaction has to lead to a close, every moment has to be a value and status check.

Then these guys go out and can't simply roll with it anymore. I know from my own experience, I became so logically obsessed and couldn't be myself anymore. Very few of these guys know how to manage healthy relationships at all. It's always a power struggle. Got to stay cool all the time man or you're "weak".

Picking up women isn't hard. Fix your body language, get some good clothes and a baseline lifestyle, lighten up, talk to more women, don't be afraid to flirt and touch, have high standards for yourself, listen, and connect as a person. You don't need more theory, you need to drop that stuff and go out in the real world. Fail until you learn and become confident with who YOU are. You'll gain 10x more experience and come out much better in the long run.

No more community terms -- kino is touching, opening is starting a conversation, sarging is going out, number closing is getting a number, etc.
No more bragging lay reports of how you same nighted her in 45 minutes, it doesn't do anything.
No more got to do X, Y, Z over the next 5 minutes or else.

Every guy I know that has gotten really great eventually leaves the community. They realize that the concepts are good but the execution is not the way to go. Instead of being a pick-up artist, they learn how to be confident men.

That being said, I leave you with the closing statement from Entropy's "My Life as a Pickup Artist" article:

"There’s a lot to gain from that whole movement, but there’s also a lot that you can get trapped in and sucked under by. A friend of mine put it perfectly when he said, “You can judge a self-help movement by how many people leave it. If people are leaving it, then it’s doing something right.” Well, many people leave the PUA community, so it must be doing something right. Just make sure you’re one of the ones who leaves."

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[–]NickTDS 8 points9 points10 points 15 years ago* (13 children) | Copy Link

I'm not the one who downvoted you and I'll clarify a bit on what I mean:

It doesn't just go for Mystery Method things, that was a long time ago. I'm talking even the "natural stuff." So much focus on how alpha you need to be, state pumping, frame control, value levels, and much more when it's not necessary. It can be simplified into a much more healthy and not so overthought process.

There's an intense fear of seeming beta and weak to the point of absurdity. It's ok to be a bit nervous, hell that's half of the fun of talking to women. It's just as important to learn to be a bit vulnerable, make mistakes, and open up as it is to be a tough badass.

Being alpha is not about constantly being dominant or on top. It's about standing up for your beliefs and making your own decisions. If you want to lead for a moment, you do it. If you want to let someone else take the floor, you do that. You learn to confidently express your true self -- quirks and all.

Does the inner game stuff teach that? Without a doubt. Is it a little much in my opinion? Definitely.

[–]07SS 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think a lot of the reason the seduction community promotes these "methods" and "techniques" is because it is the only way that people with poor self-esteem can feel they "have an edge" (bring them back up to level playing field). I am by no means an experienced PUA, but I feel that after more experience in the field (even if you go out with the most planned, canned routine out of the books) ups your confidence so that, hopefully, after a while you won't have to rely on these techniques that I agree can be a bit much at times.

The way I reinforce that last point with myself is just to think "my buddy X gets laid all the time, and he doesn't know shit about seduction". So I think for some people with serious self-esteem issues, it's a bit of snake oil.

I've gained through these methods, even though I wasn't a socially flawed person to begin with. I feel it's just fun to experiment, and experimenting is where the real gains are made.

[–]TofuTofu 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

What you're describing is true for people who haven't fully mastered (or "calibrated" to use a pickup term) their style of "game" yet. The goal on seddit is to get people beyond that point, obviously.

I guess the original point we're debating, to go back to dashingprince:

However, the main reason that we feel we offer something which r/seduction doesn't is that we try to give advice which will build a lasting relationship

It sounds like you, NickTDS, and David Wygant see eye-to-eye. As he was on here to do a Q&A and you know people on seddit pimp his products more than anyone's, I'm not sure how you could say seddit doesn't give advice that leads towards lasting relationships. Unless you somehow think David Wygant's advice is unhealthy.

Also...

Being alpha is not about constantly being dominant or on top. It's about standing up for your beliefs and making your own decisions. If you want to lead for a moment, you do it. If you want to let someone else take the floor, you do that. You learn to confidently express your true self -- quirks and all.

I agree 100% with what you said. So much so that I pimped an RSD product that teaches exactly that, just earlier today. And we're having RSD visit us for a Q&A on March 15th.

EDIT: Just to add...

Does the inner game stuff teach that? Without a doubt. Is it a little much in my opinion? Definitely.

Admittedly a lot of the inner game stuff can appear convoluted and heavy. It is by no means a quick fix approach. If you have a system for developing these traits that is simpler than David Wygant's and RSD's, do tell. I'll be the first one to pimp it all over seddit if it's the real deal.

[–]NickTDS 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

I think David Wygant teaches in a more clean way than a lot of coaches and I like that. But relationship management is completely different ballgame than pickup. Hell, I went pre-med to become a relationship counselor and I've learned more in my current relationship than anywhere else.

Personally, I don't think a lot of the advice given helps make longlasting and healthy relationships. That's my own take. So many guys build up a "game mindset" of being super alpha high-value all the time and can't turn that switch off.

I mean this in the nicest way, let's take a quick look at the link you sent:

How many times have you seen someone on here say they were in the middle of an interaction and blew it by "falling back into my old AFC ways"? ... This causes us to obsess over one woman, to our detriment. This causes us to lose our frame and blow sets or destroy attraction. This causes guys to be creepy, staring at girls from a distance. This is the disease that plagues every AFC on this planet.

Why do we have to refer to outside guys as "AFCs". The community places guys outside as weak and losers. Instead of seeing them as normal guys with anxiety we see them as less than us because they aren't involved in all this.

We use so many community terms instead of just saying "this makes us nervous and the interaction and attraction fizzles out. We use fear words like "disease that plagues" as if it's Malaria. Can't it just be problems that we overcome?

YOU are THE MAN! NO ONE in ANY SETTING is of higher value than you.

Who cares if some guy is "higher value" than you? "Value" as we use it is BS anyway, it's all in the head. Learn to be happy with you are and compare to no one else -- it's not a tournament. If someone is the man in a situation I'll cheer them right on. Build together, not compete against.

Do you never want to be intimidated by a woman again?

I still get intimidated by some women and that's fun. Getting butterflies and even being nervous is a normal and exciting feeling. Instead of trying to be so hard and impervious to it, accept it and use that energy to push you forward.

"Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear. Except a creature be part coward, it is not a compliment to say it is brave." ~ Mark Twain

EDIT:

Fat chicks give the best BJs! FACT. They chow down like it's one of those giant turkey legs from Disney World.

And there's discussion that Seduction is a friendly place to women? Fat girls being objectified as food eating monsters and give the best oral because of it. C'mon man...

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[–]TofuTofu 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

This argument is getting pretty dumb, but I'll indulge.

First off, seddit is not for the lay-person. If someone is not hardcore, they do not belong here. I want to discourage casual users from coming here, so if the terms scare them away, that's a great thing.

"kino" implies an escalation that "touch" doesn't. The terms are not identical.

"k-close" implies that you ended with a kiss. "kiss" doesn't mean the interaction ended there, so these terms are not identical.

The HB scale is very important for gauging things like a girl's bitch shield, etc. If you don't agree that bitch shields exist and that "hotter" girls have thicker ones due to the amount of times they have been hit on in their lives, then we're never gonna agree.

"set" is a handy term for explaining the size of a group. I can say "4-set" instead of "a group of four people."

Who said everyone in the community is a master of seduction? I'd say at least 90% of sedditors are AFCs. We're not denying it.

For the fat girl thing. It's a joke and isn't meant to be taken seriously :P

And fat girls do give the best BJs. Fact.

[–]NickTDS 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

"kino" implies an escalation that "touch" doesn't. The terms are not identical.

Kino literally stands for kinesthetics -- touching. It never implied direct escalation. And it's not hard to say "start touching her more personally . intimately" and explain it that way.

" k-close" implies that you ended with a kiss. "kiss" doesn't mean the interaction ended there, so these terms are not identical.

What's so difficult to say we ended with a kiss?

The HB scale is very important for gauging things like a girl's bitch shield, etc. If you don't agree that bitch shields exist and that "hotter" girls have thicker ones due to the amount of times they have been hit on in their lives, then we're never gonna agree.

I don't directly agree with hotter girls having "higher bitch shields." I'd say it's 50/50. Ask any experienced guy and some of the hottest girls are the nicest out there. Many times guys have been so intimidated by them that they get hit on less than you'd think. Either way, you can just say "when a girl is being tough" to describe the same result.

The argument that it's for "gauging" is BS anyway, let's be serious. It was created to talk about how hot a girl was and used as a bragging tool in reports.

"set" is a handy term for explaining the size of a group. I can say "4-set" instead of "a group of four people."

Is the extra 5 or so characters to type "group of 4" that much more difficult?

And it's not just about sugar-coating, it's about being classy and breeding a healthy mindset. Terms distance people from real emotions and people. Women become "targets" you have to "game" instead of someone you connect with.

[–]TofuTofu2 points 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Nono, I think in the context of seddit, Kino has always meant touch with intention of escalating, whether that succeeds or not.

Ending with a kiss sounds like something out of a disney fairy tale man. Have you ever seen the princess diaries? At the end of the movie the girl is kissing the guy and her leg pops out. Any type of close is as a result of direct action from the guys. That's positive reinforcement, even if it's implicit and psychological. Otherwise it'd be, she gave me a kiss, she had sex with me, etc. along the lines of being morally correct. You didn't have sex with her, she had sex with you! (That's just how society is these days).

for hot girls, are you talking night game or day game? completely different situations.

seddit exists to help unconfident nerdy MEN become confident nerdy MEN. I feel that if seddit is able to cater to women, that's just an added bonus. It used to say "Dating Advice for Men" in the sidebar, no longer.

In regards to the target bit, I'm don't go gaming every girl because I want to connect with her. I'm learning to build the skillset so that when the girl of my dreams walks by, I don't blow the opportunity!

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Rock on dude. Keep up the good work. I like the cut of your jib.

Can you tell me what you think of my advice that I give to people who want to get out of the friendzone? Is it too assholey?

copy/pasta "Step 1, Confirm that you two are just friends. Let her know that that's all she is to you, and you're happy about that. Do not tell her she's beautiful. Do not buy her things.

Step 2, Kino. A lot. Feel free to flirt and tease and touch her only as very close, intimate, non-sexual friends can do. Since she thinks you don't want a relationship with her, she won't have her shield up.

Step 3, Start dating other women. Which will drive her insane with jealousy. Tell her about your sexual exploits. Get her to set you up her single girlfriends. Be unavailable to her more often to be with other people.

Step 4, Start being more awesome. Be the life of the party. Be everyones best friend. Start doing really fun things that you can brag about. Go on adventures. Learn to dance.

Step 5, Usually you don't need a step 5, as they'll have already jumped your bones. But if they haven't let you know after a while of doing all the above steps, just run the normal kino escalation ladder."

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[–]NickTDS 7 points8 points9 points 15 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

What do you do differently to build lasting relationships instead of "picking up women"?

It's easier to think of it as an ongoing connection:

When you first meet, you create a connection. When you get to know each other, you build the foundation for that connection. Once you've been intimate, see eachother more often, and transition into a full relationship, you live and grow that connection together.

Maintaining a strong connection takes consistent effort and that's a positive thing. Both parties have to work together and be on the same page. Communicate feelings, talk through issues, do things you both enjoy, changes things up, and remember to keep the flame burning.

No one will ever fully understand relationships -- it's impossible. Everyone is so different and you have to find out what works for you. That being said, I can give some advice that has helped me in my own experiences:

Communicate, communicate, communicate. Have an issue? Speak up in a nice and calm way. Otherwise, they may not know what they're doing is even upsetting you. And harboring bad feelings leads to resentment
Tell the truth and don't keep secrets. It's not worth lying and ends up making things worse in the long run.
Learn to apologize. This was a hard one for me. If you did something wrong, got a little too angry, etc, man-up and say you're sorry
Don't try to change your partner. If you disagree with something they did, talk it out. But don't try to change who they really are to fit your ideals. If you don't like the person you're with, then you shouldn't be with them
Flirt and touch often. Nearly every healthy relationship that I've seen last 20+ years are still VERY into eachother. They flirt, tease, play around, and connect physically as well as emotionally. Passion is important
Don't guilt trip or do things with strings attached. What do we learn in pick up that is applicable? (And what isn't? If you do something, do it out of the kindness of your heart. Bringing things up later as "Well I did x for you" and guilting is not nice.
Be spontaneous. Variety is the spice of life and without it you can fall into boring routines. Doing the same thing over and over again gets monotonous. Do something random once in a while, go on an adventure, find new things that you both enjoy. It keeps things interesting
Maintain yourself. Guys often get comfortable in a relationship and let themselves go a bit. They feel like they already "got" the girl but don't realize that it always takes work. Exercise (you can cut out a 30 minute show 2-3x a week), keep clean, groom yourself, dress up sometimes, etc
Fight smarter. There's going to be times where an argument breaks out, it's normal. Try to not raise your voice, storm out, shut down, swear at each other, keep on the topic at hands (don't bring up old things), or personally attack. Also, touching each other (like holding a hand) can really help the moment
Don't stay in a relationship that makes you miserable. A relationship should make you happier than not. Remember there's always someone great for you

So much more I could say but I have to get going shortly. Pickup teaches you to be happy and confident with yourself, be genuine with your intentions, do things that you enjoy, and to speak your mind. Those things will always ring true.

Hope that helps and if you have any more questions, please feel free to ask :)

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I'm not the most experienced PUA around, and I haven't got enough experience to tell definitively (from my own experiences) if this is the case. However, skitrel and NickTDS were both PUA coaches and both believe that this was a serious enough problem to start a new sub about it. Nick is from the states and skitrel is from the UK and they worked for different companies, so it is unlikely to have been a localised problem.

Obviously not everyone has no relationship skill, just like not everyone has no pickup skills before they discover 'game'. We obviously aren't as appealing to the average nerd as seddit, because while seddit is largely run of the mill self help stuff, it is marketed as 'how to get laid', making it VERY popular with the average redditor. IMO the average redditor could probably use some relationship skills too.

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[–]Skitrel 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Clifton, I'm afraid I must disagree with you.

I'm incredibly busy this weekend and unfortunately missed this submission nor do I have the time to fully explain, it's a shame I missed it as I did found what dating_advice has become now and would have liked to be here to defend it.. I did however explain this somewhat extensively in a post not too long ago.

http://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/fgoah/gf_has_figured_out_my_game_and_is_not_pleased_how/

That ought to explain why I and others disagree with you. Not that there's anything wrong with you holding your opinion though. The ultimate point that we believe is that there's a significant difference between what works during attraction and what works for a relationship. What works in attraction is counter productive to relationships.

Have a read, let me know what you think.

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[–]Skitrel1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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That's a really good point about limiting beliefs.

I think limiting beliefs are the easiest to comprehend because the breakthroughs can be so obvious. Those "mini-breakthroughs" I was talking about.

Good example from today. - Guy who puts a lot of attention into his appearance realizes that looks aren't as important as he previously thought.

Boom, another limiting belief shattered.

In his case it was just dumb luck, but I think it can be forced if you try. It boils down to reading/hearing good material and then pushing your comfort zones and boundaries to test the water and induce mini-breakthroughs one by one. I think this is best done intensely over a short period of time. (Like going out 5 days a week for a month.)

You also benefit from the idea of compounded momentum carrying over from one day to the next. It helps keep state elevated and might mitigate those knock backs you mentioned.

That's what personally took me to the next level of understanding, anyway. I think it can be duplicated by others if they're willing to put the work in.

It sounds like your course isn't all that different. At what point you start from depends on what level you're coming in at.

Good stuff.

[–]Skitrel2 points 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yeah exactly, the best way forwards is to prove that the fears people have are based upon false beliefs. Once the grounding for the fear is disproven it's just a matter of them getting used to doing these things they used to fear and relaxing into it.

The major problem is proving to them that their fear is based upon false beliefs. It's all well and good showing them through logic and reason but the real change comes when they're shown evidence. Sadly that can only come through experiences and no amount of reading can ever change a habitual belief they've got in their mind. Some things can become so entrenched that they will refuse to believe arguments and rationalise their views.

Self deception is a major problem I deal with in trying to get clients in the first place but it's absolutely applicable to the people who are particularly stubborn about moving out of their old lives and into a new one. I refer mainly to the almost lost causes, the people that are so entrenched in the belief that they're "forever alone" that they will try to logically argue against any truth put in front of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-deception

[–]TofuTofu2 points 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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1.5 years and 2.5 years. I'm 24. One was sophomore/junior year of high school. The other was sophomore-senior year of university. I broke up with gf of 2.5 years because I realized I wasn't anywhere near ready for that type of commitment and I wanted to be sure of who I ended up with. I ended up reading about seduction because I had no idea how to even approach new girls that I thought were attractive. I quickly realized that all of seduction was just having the confidence to believe that people want to get to know you, you just have to give them a chance. And I recently had to break it off with a girl I'd been seeing for 3 months because I wanted a casual relationship and somewhere along the line, she became heavily invested because she was strongly attracted to my personality and the fact that when she asked me what I thought women wanted, I answered "confidence".

When I meet that girl, I want to be able to devote myself completely to her. I want to say, "I've seen it all and I want you." I just have to figure out what type of girl she is. ;)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Top_Decker 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

If you're deliberately playing someone's biological imperatives against them for purposes of seduction, they aren't choosing you out of a firm grasp of who you are as a person, they're choosing you out of what you've chosen to project as a facade of who you are in order to game them into infatuation with you. This is a surefire recipe for a consistent lack of success with every real attempt at a developing a long term relationship past its infancy as the veil comes off over time and she realizes exactly who you really are, unless through sheer chance she actually likes who she finds behind the wall (in which case, why did you need the game to begin with?). On the plus side, when she inevitably leaves, you still will have a firm grasp of how to seduce the next one that piques your interest - it's a trade-off.

[–]TofuTofu 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

These are pretty big philosophical questions you're asking. I'll answer these questions with two questions of my own. 1) How does anyone choose anyone? and 2) What defines 'you'?

Furthermore, If I learn to become a confident person, is that still a facade? If I used to be fat, but now got skinny, am I just a devious fat person living the facade of a skinny person? I'm not happy being an introverted nerd who's afraid of beautiful girls, so I made an active choice to get over that dislike of myself. Are you telling me that me being social and able to talk to pretty girls is a WALL OF LIES?

Everything you've said against seduction is a strawman fallacy. Romance and long term relationships aren't some magical fairytale. It's about making a conscience choice to put in the effort with someone you enjoy spending time with. Serendipity and fate are the reasons people leave. They realize that "oh wow. it's not as magical as it was before. it's not like the movies", and they (guys and girls) continue to try to pursue that. The long term relationships that last are the ones where people accept, recognize, and even cherish each other's flaws. (see: Good Will Hunting)

[–]veryevilgenius 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

What really matters is if you are happy and if your SO is happy while in the relationship.

Not really. As ONE of a million examples; 2 people can do nothing but stay in bed and 'do it' and be perfectly happy for a while but eventually you'll realise that you want more from a relationship. If the same 2 people had spent time getting to know each other and doing other stuff then they could have lasted a lot longer and been much happier.

One of our ex pua mods is now doing stuff where he incorporates pua material and relationship coaching to help nerds build lasting relationships. It is easier to teach a nerd to bed a girl than it is to teach him to build a lasting relationship as you have to teach twice as much material... AND there is the added hardships that most twenty something virgins are so desparate to put their p in a v that they don't care about relationships...

[–]ymrhawk 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If the same 2 people had spent time getting to know each other and doing other stuff then they could have lasted a lot longer and been much happier.

This sounds like something out of the "The Rules", the women version of game. Based on your example, sex prevents people from getting to know each other. Interesting, who are these people that are having 8 hour sex marathons and don't have time to do the other stuff?? And why are we talking about sex? You've seemed to have confused the goals with the method.

The reason why males are learning game is so that they have options. If that option is to simply bed a girl than that is his choice. However he also has the option of fullfiling a happy relationship with a majority of his knowledge about game. Admittingly most choose to simply bed them and most of the field reports are about this aspect. This is why many have this narrow view of game but another reason is because men do not brag to each other about their loving long lasting relationship because in our circle it is considered "gay" ;)

One of our ex pua mods is now doing stuff where he incorporates pua material and relationship coaching to help nerds build lasting relationships

This pretty much agrees with what I've been trying to say.

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I took a look at r/dating_advice and the r/relationships subreddit to try to understand the differences between them and seddit. It boils down to this, at seddit, no one will EVER tell you how you should proceed. Seddit is not here to live your life for you, it is here to give you advice on how to live your life the best. Every post over there is someone asking on how to act, what to do, etc. That would never fly at seddit. Seddit's response is, "Do whatever you feel like but do it confidently and make sure it is what you want to do." Seddit is about reports which state "I've done this. This is how it turned out. Here are my thoughts and reflections."

Honestly, I look at all the posts at D_A and relationships and think.. damn.. these guys really lack balls if they need other people to live their life.

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Fat chicks give the best BJs! FACT. They chow down like it's one of those giant turkey legs from Disney World.

We burn the food, go upstairs, fuck for a couple hours, fuck again in the shower, microwave the uneaten food, watch a movie, go back upstairs to sleep and gush over each other, fuck some more, sleep in, wake up and fuck, get sushi, walk around the city tied to the hip, makeout everywhere we can, drink coffee, admire the sunset and unseasonably warm weather, walk back to the house, and trade powerful, life-changing oral sex.

He told me the story of the time his friend went up to a girl in the bar and opened with "I want your ass." Is that insane? Maybe. But what could go wrong? At worse, a slap that barely hurts or a drink in the face that dries. Basically nothing could go wrong!

Those are 3 quick examples of top posts/comments that I found on Seddit threads. I could probably find another 10 examples in 5 minutes.

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