Don't make the same mistake I made. Burn the books and get off seddit.

johnnymaddick · 2014-07-24T09:44:57+00:00

You should have balance. Knowledge - practice. With some knowledge you wouldnt even know the rules of golf. Well, I dont know them atm, so i gotta read something on the topic first. However without prwctice its just a waste of time

News_Bot · 2014-07-24T09:59:56+00:00

While there is validity in the idea of not focusing so much on reading material... it's still a necessity for many people. Not everyone is a natural and fumbling around in the dark isn't going to allow them to hit the bullseye.

Fumbling around with at least some inclination of what's necessary is better.

CliTown · 2014-07-24T11:59:22+00:00

There is a lot of truth here. But your golf illustration isn't parallel to the experience of the average Seddit poster. If everyone became naturally good with girls at some point but screwed it up by reading books, then your analogy would be dead on. Guys who naturally suck at golf can benefit from Hogan. Guys who naturally suck with girls can benefit from books, especially Models.

Diece · 2014-07-24T12:07:24+00:00

Wait, so you're telling me if I only read about seduction and never actually practice interacting with people in the real world, I won't make any progress?

Wow, I never considered that, what a novel and unique concept, I've never heard that before.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to get back to reading "sarcasm for dummies."

Sorry for the sarcasm, I get your point, but I think that sometimes reading material is a good place to start for anyone who is new to the game. Going out and just talking to girls isn't going to yield results if you don't know how to kino, for example.

However you are correct that focusing too much on reading material isn't going to net you any progress, you need to practice and see what works for you.

I personally use seduction techniques just to improve my social interactions, and rarely use it to close girls beyond setting up a date, and the only reason I figured that out was by going into the field, closing girls, and realizing I wasn't getting any value from 1 nighters, and I wanted something more than that. Luckily the fundamentals of pickup are useful in every social interaction of you know how to calibrate.

MiteBeCool · 2014-07-25T01:23:02+00:00

I sucked with people in general before I started reading about this stuff. Now that I can hold a decent conversation with strangers I am starting to build off of that and be creative. But learning the fundamentals first is what got me to this point.

asshole-son · 2014-07-24T13:26:55+00:00

Stopped reading after the first line.

SirByron · 2014-07-24T12:15:57+00:00

100% agree. But the inner game foundation is hard to discover by yourself. Also many outer game tricks are useful. Read but use your innovation to apply what works for you.

zzonked7 · 2014-07-24T13:18:52+00:00

You don't have to go that extreme. I personally feel it's most beneficial to just focus on one concept at a time and try to improve that every time you go out. When you're comfortable with that concept and you don't need to think about it any more, move on to the next.

For example, I recently decided to work on my speaking voice/talking louder. Now that's become second nature, I'm working on getting better at physically escalating. Just take on little pieces of information and fine tune them until each brush stroke creates a bigger picture.

aardvarkarmorer · 2014-07-24T16:51:52+00:00

Do you think the greatest people at their particular passion read about how to do it? Fuck no, (I have a quote regarding this but I can't find it ATM).

I'd like to see this quote because I'm sure this is completely untrue.

No, Tom Brady doesn't read "how to throw a football". But I can bet you he's read as many book on football at different points in his career. We're also not all Tom Brady now, are we?

Xiudo · 2014-07-24T17:31:28+00:00

Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice

10,000 hours are required to be an expert for anything.

crammotron · 2014-07-24T17:59:57+00:00

The material is invaluable information for beginners

Putzpie · 2014-07-24T18:51:03+00:00

If you're completely new to the idea, reading up from good sources isn't a bad idea.

There are plenty of things I've learned here that have helped my game, but the important thing is to apply what you learn in a way that works for you.

But eventually you're right, you just have to get the fuck out there.

There's really only so much you need to know about "game" before it just gets to the point of rehashing the same ideas over and over.

ThrowawayPUA · 2014-07-24T10:27:11+00:00

Interpersonal relationships are a bit more complex than your sport of hitting a ball with a stick.

lilcide · 2014-07-24T10:58:36+00:00

Your right man, too much material hurts your game. In everything you do.

sweens90 · 2014-07-24T11:23:03+00:00

I have a couple questions concerning this though:

How often were you playing in comparison to reading the books? How much new stuff were you trying to implement all at once?

Its the same on here as for any sports. You cannot change your form radically and expect not to suck. Change little aspects at a time (if things were working for you earlier) and add the improvements you need to learn from books a little at a time.

omarm1984 · 2014-07-24T12:06:22+00:00

Its about balance. The ideal would be 50-50, but if you dont have the ime for that you should always spend more time practicing than reading. I study material (reading and videos) about 5 hrs a week and go out about 10 hrs a week. I also spend a good 2 to 3 hrs writing down my experiences, reflecting on hem, and also helping others with their game.

Harb0 · 2014-07-24T12:23:23+00:00

You make a lot of good points here, but I still disagree with much of what you said. Let me try to explain. I have always been a fairly good football player, or as many of you Americans know it, soccer. The reason why I have obtained the skills that I have, is because I have always played organized football, and thus have had people teaching me as I grew up. I assume you also had several people coach you during your golfing career. To take the extra step, you also need to practice a lot by yourself, which you can do in your spare time.

Now, let us compare this to the subjects you have in school. And bear with me here, I am coming to the point. In school, you also get coaching in terms of teaching, but to get far, at least when you get to college and universities, you need to practice at home too. Most of your subjects are, at least compared to golf and football, very theoretical. Therefore, you need to read books, work on projects and such to earn good grades, which can be compared to the practice you do during your spare time in sports.

Now, in my eyes, seduction is somewhere in the middle. It has both an advanced theoretical part and an advanced practical part. Very few of us have gone to classes to learn about seduction, but if we did, I am sure the focus would be on the theoretical part. The practical part also requires practice, which occurs during your daily socialization. The more you socialize with people around you, the more practice you get. But you also need to learn the theoretical part to learn about techniques.

As a final example, my football coach was the one that educated me about the correct way to shoot the ball when I was young, making sure I did not get used to the wrong technique. Of course, I could get used to the wrong technique, but I would limit my own potential. In the same way, I was informed about the importance of confidence from various places, and that has made me able to practice showing my confidence to other people when I am actually out there socializing.

I hope it is fairly clear what I am trying to say, but my native language is not English. Also, as mentioned in the other comments, it is very important to balance knowledge and practice. You will not get better at seduction by just reading books about it all day, just as you will not get any better by reading books about golf, or having a coach tell you what do you without actually practicing what he tells you. You need to practice, and you need to learn.

Baldr12 · 2014-07-24T12:55:33+00:00

It's because you read chapter after chapter and try to apply them to real life piece after piece.

You have to read the whole book or even books and only after apply what you learned.

citizenpuppet · 2014-07-24T13:10:24+00:00

The hard part about this stuff is that its intangible. Pickup artist types are handing out advice on how to approach, talk to, fuck, and maybe marry women. But that's relative to their own experiences and personal tastes in women. For example, going into a formulated approach with a Liz Lemon type will almost certainly get you shot to shit, as it comes off as smug and sexist. You have to be able to adapt, and that comes with personality and your ability to make and keep conversations naturally. So maybe you start there, but it doesn't require a book, you just have to talk more, and stop being shy around women. If you're not an asshole, the rest will fall into place.

Not2original · 2014-07-24T13:36:22+00:00

Like everyone else on here knowledge is power. I totally see where your coming from. Try some stuff, if it doesn't work then get some knowledge then try again.

I think it's all about what you've learned from your own experiences, and the experiences of others and applying the two that best suit you.

rangamatchstick · 2014-07-24T14:51:21+00:00

Look, alot of this is obvious. You obviously have to work out what works for you (most books actualy say that) but there are alot of good fundamentals that can be learnt through books which anyone good at "game" shares. These obviously must be practised and gotten down pat before trying other things and thats what alot of these techniques are, things to try and see if they work for you.

2014-07-24T15:27:13+00:00

I don't want to waste another 100 dollars only to be embarrassed by your shit play.

Charmer.

Rerichael · 2014-07-24T15:53:37+00:00

I think everyone is taking OP's post as "DON'T BUY BOOKS THEIR STUPID AND USELESS" when I believe his point is, you don't need 1000 resources to all tell you the same thing.

Anyone who's spent more than an hour or so reading Seddit/AskSeddit knows what the basics are, and to get any use out of that information, you have to put it to use. Knowing what you have to do because someone told you, and knowing what you have to do because you've been there before and know how to respond, are two very different things.

I can read 100 books on how to play football, but that doesn't mean I could step on the field and show out. Sure, I would have a better idea than if I didn't read the books, but you'll only ever really learn by doing, not seeing.

The other point I think OP is trying to make is once you start to have a grasp on something, be it golf or pickup, don't start overevaluating yourself and trying to fix things that might not even be problems. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Meaning if you're doing something, and it's bringing you success, don't change it just cause someone or something told you it's stupid. It's only stupid if it doesn't work.

At the end of the day, OP's post really comes down to this.

STOP THINKING. START DOING.

No book or video will educate you more than getting your hands dirty and finding out why something doesn't work. Doesn't matter if it's golf, pickup, mechanics, or math. First hand experience is ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS better.

foretee714 · 2014-07-24T16:31:30+00:00

Speaking from experience, I read a golf psychology book two summmers ago, and essentially what it taught me was the importance of living in the present moment. Golf is the game of life. And this is what it teaches you:

To be. Let all other problems go. Be in the now. Use mental images: i.e. One of mine is I picture Jack Nicklaus, (one of my favorite golfers), shutting the door on a bad swing thought or doubt. You may be able to see how this applies to life.

After using this mental "technique," I had the best tournament of my life.

Thanks!

Much Love for this sub.

TylerX5 · 2014-07-24T17:05:53+00:00

I think your point has a good core to it but for some people books and other sources of knowledge are what help them find something within themselves that lead them to success. Some people are just hindered by counter-intuitive methods, some people never improve without them. Most people use a variety that suites them.

I'm pretty shitty when it comes to learning intuitively, I need to study things, then put them into practice until my intuitions become good in that particular field. But without the initial studying I tend to barely improve.

ont_anon · 2014-07-24T20:56:58+00:00

This is a great post (not only for the mention of Hogan's book, which I would have upvoted you for anyways). In this arena, it is waaaay too easy to get buried in theory (and all of the opposing theory), what you should do, what you shouldn't do, how to look, what to say, how to smile, how to touch, etc.

All of that theory, combined with approach anxiety, would have someone so built up with expectation in their mind I wouldn't be surprised that they'd be trembling like a leaf with their brain drowning in everything that they'd read. It would be like someone saying "Ok, read these 75 tomes on brain surgery" and then once you're done you get the pat on the back, "Ok son, you're up!"

alaver · 2014-07-24T22:01:23+00:00

I think that those that get really into books, and trying memorize lines are missing the point about this community. You can come her to see what others are experiencing. I am sure some of us here can relate to some of the materials that come up in Seddit. From there, we can make up our way to go about things. If you are trying to unfold a preconcived strategy, no matter what you are going to have to improvise and be natural, and relaxed and everything else that only comes with practice.

StupidWes · 2014-07-24T22:45:09+00:00

But what works for you won't necessarily work for other people. Don't throw out blanket statements like they're true for everyone.

blownstang · 2014-07-30T03:39:47+00:00

Yeah dude, this stuff is good but shit... reading about something doesn't change you. Something I've realized recently is that most people have these specific questuons like "what should I say when this happens" Or " what should I do when she does this" or "what does this mean when she does this?" Even good advice doesn't help in the long run because in the end the person asking for something so specific like that isn't going to know what to do in the thousands of other women related situations he will run into day after day. It comes down to focusing on yourself and not others. Kinda paradoxical...

Fuck_Dacts · 2014-07-24T10:35:46+00:00

Why reinvent the wheel? It's easier for directed instruction and deliberate practice . Sure you can be self taught but it is less stressful via the paths others have traveled.

rangamatchstick · 2014-07-24T14:59:41+00:00

[permanently deleted]

FreCOlo · 2014-07-24T15:36:31+00:00

I think that the more knowledge you have in a particular area, the more you are aware of your shortcomings in that area. So perhaps you always sucked at golf, but you just began to realize it after reading instructional books.

mlgpc · 2014-07-24T20:26:44+00:00

Men this Is basically me. I agree with you! I think that you should have some books but the important thing is going out and practicing. I think I am just going to stick to 4 books and practice, practice.

Tobey21 · 2014-07-24T20:37:33+00:00

Believing that there's a set collection of rules to follow in the pursuit of romantic happiness is the first and biggest mistake you can make. Women aren't generalisable like that. Each and every one of them is unique and will differ in the way they like to be approached and in what sparks their interest. Realising that is your first and most important step. From this knowledge you then deduce that there's no such thing as a guide to dealing with women. Consequently it makes no sense to then use someone else's guidelines in your approach of women. The ultimate guide to interacting with women should read something like this: 'Be genuinely nice and interesting. If you can't be, you're outta luck. Work on yourself first and try again later.' And don't give me that 'girls don't like nice guys' bs. Everyone worth pursuing has a genuine interest for nice and interesting people. If they don't they don't deserve your time. If you know yourself to be nice get to working on being interesting. Sitting around reading books on how to score women won't help you in that department. And if you know yourself to be an interesting person (this should give you confidence by the way, which will help you in supposedly stressfull situations like approaching someone) work on being genuinely nice. Fakers will be spotted immediately. Two ingredients people. That's it!

duodan · 2014-07-24T13:29:40+00:00

Do you think the greatest people at their particular passion read about how to do it? Fuck no

LOOOOOOFL stopped reading there.

human_bean_ · 2014-07-24T16:20:18+00:00

Here's what I got from your rant:

A pointless anecdote on golfing
Stop reading self-help books

Don't make the same mistake I made. Burn the books and get off seddit.

Basic Idea

Story time

Bottom Line

Comments

Title	Don't make the same mistake I made. Burn the books and get off seddit.
Author	Diece
Upvotes	153
Comments	73
Date	July 24, 2014 7:22 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/2bkqlo/dont_make_the_same_mistake_i_made_burn_the_books/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/dont-make-the-same-mistake-i-made-burn-the-books.1374075 https://theredarchive.com/post/1374075