How to accurately describe how "toxic masculinity" isn't helped by "acting more feminine

SpanishM · 2021-12-19T20:25:42+00:00

>difficulties processing emotions.

I don't believe men in general have difficulties processing emotions. You don't get the help women get when they express their emotions, so, sometimes it's like "what for?". But then again, the problem is not processing, nor even expressing them, but that institutions are not sensible to it.

About other things they call "toxic masculinity", it's all bullshit: "men don't cry", "men have to act violent"... where the heck are men taught this today? Nowhere.

Yes, there may be anecdotal cases, of course, but this is not "our culture", it no longer is.

Regarding "behave more feminine", everyone is free to act the way they want, but demanding others to act more feminine -which is apparently what they want-... I don't even know how to call it. "Sexual authoritarianism?"... Geez this has started to look like a femdom fantasy (good for anyone who is into that, but I'm not).

DekajaSukunda · 2021-12-20T00:27:32+00:00

This whole thing about "toxic masculinity" and "male deconstruction" and acting like men just being more empathetic and kind to others will solve all the problems in the world is a stupid and naive idea. Jesus tried that 2000 years ago and we know how that ended.

It's based on an essentially authoritarian premise - in order for violence to cease existing in this world literally every man in the world, in every culture would have to agree to this "male deconstruction" thing.

When you keep telling boys masculine nature is violent and make them hate themselves, don't act shocked when these kids turn out confused, resentful, and violent when they grow up. Especially if you're not getting rid of any of the other problems that lead men to those violent lives.

peanutbutterjams · 2021-12-20T07:26:15+00:00

IMO, feminism treats men like defective women.

Saying men can "help themselves" by acting more feminine is just mask-off admitting this is exactly what they think.

And "toxic masculinity" is just all the negative male values that were left over when all the positive male values were universalized. It's a scam. It truly is.

danielnogo · 2021-12-20T01:57:44+00:00

What's hilarious is it's actually women that create most toxic male traits. I know it sounds crazy, but many things that are considered toxic can be boiled down to "women will judge me as weak or inferior if I do this so I'm not going to."

Women talk a big talk about toxic masculinity, but their sexual selection habits do more to keep toxic masculine traits in place than any patriarchy ever could.

It's hilarious that toxic masculinity is fine to talk about, but there is no such thing as toxic femininity. Toxic masculinity is just negative stereotypes of men.

If someone started preaching about toxic feminity and said that women are psycho and gossips and jealous and too emotional, people would throw a fit.

TheSnesLord · 2021-12-19T20:23:42+00:00

They don't care about helping men.

The "act more feminine" thing is all just a method for women to attain control of men, by emasculating them.

BloomingBrains · 2021-12-19T21:33:25+00:00

Yeah, I thinks its very misandrist to say that in order to properly deal with emotions, one must act feminine. This seems to imply, as you said, that:

women have a monopoly on how to deal with emotions.

It also seems to imply that masculinity is fundamentally incompatible with a healthy emotional life. While some cultures would certainly agree with this, there were others that would strongly disagree. It's all subjective. One could just as easily argue that showing love and kindness are actually extremely masculine because they show the person expressing them that they aren't afraid of being seen as vulnerable.

But I don't really believe that expressing healthy emotions is masculine or feminine. They're gender neutral traits that are important for both sexes to have. Just like bravery, determination, etc.

I also think its funny that people characterize emotions as a feminine trait, because this kind of binary thinking easily invites the misogynistic assumption that women are "hysterical" or whatnot while men are rational and calm. So once again, feminism shoots itself in the foot.

SweatyAdvance · 2021-12-19T19:44:26+00:00

The last paragraph really hit the nail on the head. All of this "men just need to cry more" assumes that the only proper way to express emotion is do it more like a woman.

Men and women are different. Our brains are wired differently. Our emotional responses are different.

donotfeedthecat · 2021-12-19T19:55:40+00:00

It's also the idea of "this is men's fault." Or "men problems are because if MEN." BS rhetoric that I see. It isn't men, it's SOCIETY.

AngoPower28 · 2021-12-20T08:38:20+00:00

It is weird isn't it ? As a modern man the way to be transgressive is to wear a dress or carry a purse for some reason I can't explain

Algiz56 · 2021-12-20T08:57:25+00:00

First of all, the very concept of "toxic masculinity" is a fraud and a scarecrow. It basically means "things I personally do not like in certain situation" and nothing more.

Go try ask any of the people who blame everything on toxic masculinity to give a non-circular definition of the matter. Than ask to give a definition of non-toxic masculinity. You will be amused.

Masculinity is not a problem. At all. Not is the "male culture".

Problem is rather life values. When you spend all you life, chasing money, positions, things, etc, you have very little time to stop and check your well-being.

Unchecked capitalistic society makes things too expensive for people to think about themselfs. That is very convenient and profitable. Someone begins to ask unconvenient questions? Just make apartment market skyrocket and they will forget about your fuck ups. I oversimplified, but it is around that.

Now, returning to men problems. As we see clearly on any study that debunks so-called "vage gap", guys tend to work more and on more demanding and dangerous jobs.

So, how do you think, who, in general, are more vulnerable to psychological burn-out? Men, of course.

Add psychological differences to equation (guys and gals have different reactions to stress, on average), and you will see, why men have problems to express their feelings. To the point that it is hard to understand, that it is something wrong with you, until you begin to have obvious problems, like depression, sleep disorders and more. Problems, that you can not just shrug off.

So, TLDR 1. "Toxic masculinity" is a fake concept. Also extremely sexist one.

Men do have problems with opening up, as much as we do have psychological problems caused by this.
The root of all evils is not masculinity, nor feminity for that matter. It is in modern state of economics and in the way how things are handled.
To solve the issue, you should not act "more feminine", you should pay more attention to yourself.

Successful-Advanced · 2021-12-20T13:52:54+00:00

I don't know id this is what you're looking for but here:

The way I like to see it is

TOXIC MASCULINITY
is made of two parts. Toxic and Masculinity. What people like to do is remove the masculinity part, and while it wont be toxic masculinity anymore, you could still be toxic and feminine. The right solution is to remove the toxic part.

Quit_social_media · 2021-12-19T21:05:37+00:00

Some of the most decent traits people can have are 'masculine' in nature. So I certainly don't think being effeminate will serve to help me - quite the reverse. Things like courage, healthy competitiveness, chivalry, strength, moral decency, and stoicism ect. I think they are things I'd like to be.

MastermindX · 2021-12-19T21:41:56+00:00

"Toxic masculinity" is a bullshit concept that doesn't mean anything. It's used as a box to dump a bunch of unrelated and vaguely defined problems (or not really problems but things they don't like), and provide a very convenient solution to all of them, that by pure coincidence just happens to be the things feminists wanted in the first place.

If you want to solve a problem, any problem, you have to be specific about it, and analyze its different components to figure out what solutions can work. You cannot fix "toxic masculinity" with a simple universal solution, for the same reasons you cannot solve "bad things that happen in the world" the same way.

So when asked that question, what you should ask is what are they referring to exactly, and then you can discuss the merits of different proposed solutions.

Carkudo · 2021-12-19T22:23:09+00:00

I don't resent the idea. I resent the fact that acting feminine doesn't help and that the same feminists who preach femininity will punish a man for acting feminine, unless he's good looking.

dontpet · 2021-12-20T09:22:04+00:00

I think men don't have the space and culture for tenderness as much as they should. We generally do the playful challenging masculine stuff very well but are still finding a modern voice to care for each other.

Langland88 · 2021-12-20T10:50:51+00:00

My issue with the term is that there isn't really a clear definition anymore for the said term. It feels like to me what academics made a definition for, Feminist publications added on to it. The definition keeps changing and it gets thrown around the internet that people are now at a point where the assumption is now that All Masculinity is Toxic.

Also it just seems like it's attacking old caricatures of what men were like in the 1980s, 90s, and in the early half of the 2000s.

Tiggywiggler · 2021-12-19T21:04:25+00:00

It is misandry in that it is trying to say that being Male is wrong and you should be feminine. The idea of toxic masculinity is not about being toxic, it is about masculinity itself and claiming all masculinity is wrong. There is, after all, no 'non-toxic masculinity'. As for processing emotions, men do process emotions they just do it differently. A woman may cry whereas a man may get angry. They are both experiencing emotions and reacting to an emotional state, the idea that men are not processing their emotions is an attempt to claim that instead the way that men DO process emotions is inherently wrong.

2021-12-19T22:18:29+00:00

I reject the premise of toxic masculinity entirely. An example you brought up concerns emotional openness. I am sure all of us who have mother's, sisters, gf's and wives have all dealt with women not being open about things that were bothering them and not being honest about their emotional needs. That kind of behavior isn't only in the domain of men, we aren't trying to call that kind of behavior toxic femininity so what is really going on?

The concept of toxic masculinity is used by feminists to make men less competitive, assertive and driven etc while those same traits are praised and encouraged in women and girls. They want men to become indecisive and weak so that men will no longer be fit to lead anything so that they will wind up in charge of everything.

As far as acting more feminine, I am a man in my early 30's and I have never been rewarded in any area of life by anyone by acting more feminine. Even if I wanted to, I wouldn't do it. I have nothing to gain and alot to lose by doing so.

iainmf · 2021-12-20T00:09:21+00:00

Women have higher rates of depression and anxiety. I think this is because they are more prone to brooding and rumination, rather than action orientated response to negative emotions.

In any case, if someone is saying men should just express their emotions more, tell them how that makes you feel. If they aren't empathetic, then you can sensitively point out that their response contradicts what they originally said.

2021-12-20T00:20:50+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	How to accurately describe how "toxic masculinity" isn't helped by "acting more feminine
Author	donotfeedthecat
Upvotes	170
Comments	54
Date	December 19, 2021 7:29 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/rk3sqd/how_to_accurately_describe_how_toxic_masculinity/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/how-to-accurately-describe-how-toxic-masculinity.1091634 https://theredarchive.com/post/1091634

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