What are some counter-arguments to this feminist idea

63daddy · 2023-01-20T21:56:41+00:00

Sperm banks require men.

2a Our present society is about more than just reproducing. If all of a sudden there were no male plumbers, no male police officers, no male firefighters, no male construction workers, etc. , society wouldn’t be back to normal in 15-20 years, it would be dysfunctional.

2b I would invite these feminists to try an experiment. Go live on a large island somewhere with no men and where no support from men is allowed once founded. The community would have to be comprised with roughly the same female makeup of society now. (Same percentage by profession) They could found their community with items made by men just as if men disappeared but no reliance on men thereafter, again as if men just disappeared. No items made by men may be imported, no services by men may be provided. It would have to be a 100% female supported community. See how they are doing in 15-20 years and in what direction their community is headed.

An alternative would be all men could vacate Sweden with the same restrictions and see how it goes, but I think buying an island is more realistically achievable.

McFeely_Smackup · 2023-01-20T21:37:07+00:00

without men, women would have to collect the trash...ergo, society collapses by next tuesday

East_Meeting_667 · 2023-01-20T21:57:39+00:00

China just developed an artifical uterus so out of eggs its the same arguement. Some jobs women wouldn't ever want to do or so few that life would become unliveable until they got enough to run them 80% of truck drivers are male for food and fuel transportation. Fuel refinement and harvesting are about the same. Most farmers are male so no more kale. Fisherman also largely male. Plumbing and electrical services. Alot of inferstructre jobs just wouldn't be able to function. Are we talking world wide no males or other countries attacking the countries that don't have the soldiers to defend the borders. Are the men just gone and no one to train how to unload cargo ships? You can't even scale communication outage if every tech just vanishes the cities would have to be reformed in a central location because trying to run services to a area the size of one state would be crazy.

Greg_W_Allan · 2023-01-21T03:30:01+00:00

If only the men working in infrastructure fields were to stop working we would be living in conflict zones within a couple of days.

NorthernWombat · 2023-01-20T23:47:01+00:00

The primary argument should be any one group advocating the abolition of another group is advocating genocide and is an abhorrent concept from the very beginning of the idea.

This isn’t a gender conversation, this is genocide advocacy.

shit-zen-giggles · 2023-01-20T23:29:05+00:00

without men, society would continue as there would be Sperm Banks

sperm banks wouldn't last forever, so 'women only world' would face the same problem as the 'men only world', just with some neglectible time delay. Creating sperm from stem cells would thus need to be on the top of their priority list, right behind 'clean up 400+ nuclear reactor meldowns' since those would fall unattended without.

g1455ofwater · 2023-01-20T22:26:48+00:00

Tell them who supplies the sperm bank.

zoxzoxzo · 2023-01-20T22:48:48+00:00

When you go out, you see all this infrastructure that is built and maintained by men which allows for a very comfortable and privileged life today when compared to how it was to live in the past. Without men the society would crumble in days, however feminists would likely still complain it's men's fault their lives turned to sh*t.

uniquename1992 · 2023-01-21T02:48:16+00:00

Who's gonna pay for the bill without men? Boom check mate

EpicHajsownik · 2023-01-21T11:25:49+00:00

Women wouldn't want to impregnate themselves (not all at least) especially without a husband
Even if we would force women to be impregnated, which as terrible as it would be, would make sense if we force men to the military, then we wouldnt have people to take care of kids, and at the same time work

Professional-You2968 · 2023-01-21T13:11:38+00:00

Why do you want to entertain their stupidity?

nineteenletterslong_ · 2023-01-20T23:23:54+00:00

from a fiscal point of view, the average man is a net positive and the average woman a net negative, so there wouldn't be enough tax revenue without cuts, but this would be the last of our worries.

everything you see around you was invented, developed, made, transported and maintained by men. a feminist columnist earns and pays more taxes than a sewage worker but her effect on the world isn't as obviously beneficial

Wylanderuk · 2023-01-21T00:30:37+00:00

Not when the power grid goes down and the infrastructure required fails. Not to mention fires going out of control due the loss of most firefighters.

XennoJiiva · 2023-01-21T11:51:58+00:00

You need men for sperm in sperm banks and there isn't nearly enough sperm to supply all women who want babies. But thinking they would survive for years until these kids are adults is also hilarious. If men disappeared today the infrastructure would start to collapse pretty much instantly. Clean water, sewage, electricity oil and gas and all the things being maintained constantly would start going out left and right as there are pretty much no women in these professions, it would be a fucking disaster. Men on the other hand can maintain all the things that keep society running bit also do everything crucial women can do.

I don't know if you noticed but even in female dominated fields some of the best workers are men. Cooking which is so called a female thing is dominated by male cooks being the best in the world, even make up, fashion design and actually making the clothing. Even the best hairdressers for women are mostly gay guys. And those are all things we don't even need to survive.

When it comes to the whole reproduction problem. Women forget that they are basically incubators. Women like to tell themselves they are more important because they can give life but that's not true at all. Men give life, the life is the sperm cell. We already made and are developing incubators for people who can't have babies and we habe sperm. And even of we don't have women around there's also plenty of frozen eggs just like there is sperm at the sperm bank. The difference is we would survive longer cause we could actually maintain society without everything crashing down.

Literally all jobs that keep society running are vastly dominated by men, saying they would survive for long is a stretch lmao.

As soon as the electricity grid starts failing which is within a week or 2 most of society will start breaking down. Them thinking they would survive long is hilarious.

algo_trader_6ix · 2023-01-20T22:06:02+00:00

Artificial wombs.

https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/artificial-womb-facility-30000-babies-a-year

skcuf2 · 2023-01-21T05:27:14+00:00

100% men would devote a fuckload of time to sex robots. Honestly, most of the functions we desire women for could probably be replaced by machines.

AirSailer · 2023-01-20T22:26:50+00:00

Two hypotheticals need to considered to get a firm grasp on what life would be like to understand which would be better.

Sperm banks allow women to reproduce. All males suddenly disappeared overnight. All male fetuses are culled. Only female humans are allowed to exist.
Artificial wombs allow men to reproduce. All females suddenly disappear overnight. All females fetuses are culled. Only male humans are allowed to exist.

I think in both situations the remaining humans would eventually adapt to handle the roles performed by the missing sex. In both scenarios there would be major deficiencies in whole fields, in particular the utilities and defense would have issues when men disappear, while health and childcare industries would face hardship if women disappeared.

Thus I'd say that the small positives realized by a specific sex when the opposite sex disappears would be severely overshadowed by the large roles the missing sex plays in society. Life would be very shitty for everyone in both scenarios.

So maybe people should just shut the fuck up about how great it would be if the opposite sex were to disappear.

Jerezmo · 2023-01-21T07:04:50+00:00

Without men, women will have to step in and do the dangerous, manual/dirty work like sewer work and logging and they’ll wish they could give back 92% of workplace fatalities to us.

2023-01-21T00:14:44+00:00

If we're talking about if men were to just snap out of existence without any warning?

Men make up the bulk share of people in jobs that critical to keeping society going: electricians, construction worker, police officers, truckers, farmers, etc. You'd have to have masses of women rushing to learn and fill these roles as quickly as possible to keep things running.
Now if that were to work and what remains of society were still capable of functioning without men, a woman needs about 9 months to bring in new life. Because this time is very vulnerable for a woman and because there are now more women in dangerous but critical jobs, the poplation would slow down to a crawl because only so many of them would be able to be pregnant at a time. To say nothing of all the time needed for child rearing.
Do they think we'd just be sitting on our thumbs and waiting for end if they disappeared? We'd throw everything we can into figuring out way to continuing the human species or preserving ourselves until we could find a way.

Loud_Read1414 · 2023-01-21T00:29:16+00:00

We live in a time of such unprecedented peace and decadence that people have forgotten that external threats from other countries are still a very real prospect.

What the hell are Western women gonna do if those hardcore taliban motherfuckers invade? Report them to HR?

Men are the silent guardians of the hard won peace that most of us naively take for granted. They protect the orderly garden from the chaotic wilderness beyond its borders.

Damienslair · 2023-01-21T00:48:42+00:00

Society wouldn’t be back to normal in 15-20 years because most women don’t want to do hard labour, dangerous jobs, construction, STEM, engineering, trucking, fighting in wars, and so on.

They are already working on artificial wombs which would replace women.

Zipper-Tits · 2023-01-20T23:56:59+00:00

Less than 10% of construction workers are women.

That statistic alone precludes women from being able to carry on without men existing if they expect to carry on as if nothing happened.

Edited to add clarity.

mikesteane · 2023-01-20T23:51:45+00:00

"Find me a female only commune that has survived more than a generation, religious orders excluded."

tpn1984 · 2023-01-21T01:04:31+00:00

The majority if women (now days femists) would not be able to train or teach the a very large portion of the skills required to achieve a functioning society. This would lead to their collapse quickly as they would not be able to apply the skills that were learned by men and not passed down by men. The males born would not be aware of how they should act, or behave as feminism would destroy the natural masculine attributes that men need to keep infrastructure and logical practices applied by men themselves. Thus, they would serve no purpose and become essential work horses for the man hating feminists. They would also have no freedoms to act as men as they would be shunned when acting upon their natural instincts.

EviessVeralan · 2023-01-20T23:04:30+00:00

Where do feminists think sperm comes from?

Waratah888 · 2023-01-21T00:33:55+00:00

"You maybe right. Might not be too. But what kinda person would want to live in that kind of society?"

Njaulv · 2023-01-21T01:24:17+00:00

The obvious answer is men are needed to make sperm, and you would have to kill male infants which would be literal genocide for this supposed utopia. On top of that, every single experiment where people had men and women separately try to survive in the wilderness as tribes has shown women at a severe disadvantage due solely to personality types and lack of being able to work together.

coming2grips · 2023-01-21T05:49:37+00:00

Mens body continually create spermatozoa. They only have short lifespans. The impact on a males body to stop production is drastic.

Women's bodies have a limited supply of their eggs. They are slowly released periodically. Removal of the eggs would have a lower impact biologically and be less prone to unwanted "recovery".

kozhithalayan · 2023-01-21T07:05:27+00:00

Without men if there is a fire more people will post it ok social media than actually rescuing the people

algo_trader_6ix · 2023-01-20T22:07:50+00:00

Women having children is at all time lows across the globe. Even though they have the machinery to have children, they are not doing it because modern society has made them too soft. Older generations of women had like 10 kids without ever complaining about the pain.

Motalo · 2023-01-20T22:21:56+00:00

Don't counter the feminist "idea", counter what feminists actually do and say. Show hateful and sexist tweets, so the sexist alws feminist groups advocate for, etc.

BiizzaaB · 2023-01-20T21:46:12+00:00

There is no such "feminist" saying.

Glad-Discount-4761 · 2023-01-21T08:15:14+00:00

"without men, society would continue as there would be Sperm Banks so society would be back to normal in 15-20 years. Without women, society would eventually collapse because there wouldn't be a way to reproduce without women"

At least we can build things,what can you build?

decentish36 · 2023-01-21T02:06:48+00:00

There’s plenty of good counterarguments already commented. But honestly I would ask, “what’s your point?”

It’s such a random and ridiculous hypothetical. Maybe they could restore society and fill the critical roles eventually if all men disappeared. But who cares? We live in a world where there are 2 genders and in this world men are drawing the short straw. Unless they’re advocating for genocide that argument is completely meaningless. It doesn’t give justification to any real world policy.

Final_Philosopher663 · 2023-01-21T15:26:05+00:00

Is there a need for counter arguments for an idea such as this?

trolsor · 2023-01-21T15:37:11+00:00

https://youtu.be/hh9t3pEUCes tell them watch this documantary . Than ask how many women they can see on the field .

Null .. all these stuff basic raw materials to production of primary and secondary needs .

And ask what they are planning with the male babies ? Pgt-a pre decide about gender .. if not so Kill it ?

Also how they wil going to prevent inbreed ? Here are numbers : At least 10 x 10(6) spermatozoa/ml, of which at least 30% are motile and 15% have progressive motility, are required for IVF or insemination therapy, despite the fact that pregnancies can be achieved with lower parameters. As a minimum, 20% of spermatozoa should be of normal morphology.

https://www.malefertility.com/blog/sperm-count-test-for-iui-success

https://www.givelegacy.com/resources/sperm-freezing-frequently-asked-questions-answered/

Need fricking 3 vials ..

Even discussing something like thst is totally bonkers

See this one https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/metals-and-mining/our-insights/why-women-are-leaving-the-mining-industry-and-what-mining-companies-can-do-about-it. .. they talking about equity on “office and management roles” in mining industry . No mention on equity to actually entering mine and dig the stone and carry .

So what equity means women and man will be equal in management but man will do the dangerous high risk work ..

coldest_17 · 2023-01-21T15:39:57+00:00

If all women disappeared resulting in men only being on the earth the scientists would be forced to find a way to work around that and create artificial wombs obviously with the help of the sperm bank

Scandi_Navy · 2023-01-21T16:05:53+00:00

The economy would not survive 20 years of a 50% reduction in population. We are struggling now, even after adding women to the workforce, to replace the boomer generation entering their pension age. All over Europe countries are extending the pension age.

But this time it would be harder because 70% of women will need to be reeducated into jobs they don't want to do, without any experienced teachers available. You think you can just show up with 100 women who have never been on an oil rig and just run it? Or a power plant? Hook a windmill park up to the grid?

Not saying they can't figure out how to eventually operate the infrastructure men build. But no power and no oil, means no internet, no information, no lightbulb, no food transport. The amount of people that will die can not be called "we will be fine".

And in 20 years you will still only have maybe 20% male population, of which not even one full generation is ready to have children. They will be massively entitled and use their value to their advantage, which will not go over well.

Not to mention the lack of genetic diversity issues, meaning you will have to police dating. The chances of population collapse are just way bigger than not.

jokerfriend6 · 2023-01-21T16:45:09+00:00

Why participate in this thought process. Feminists have made up their mind and no way to change it.

As far as jobs. If there is a big need for certain jobs the market changes to support those jobs over time. It can be filled by men or women.

Flaming-taco · 2023-01-21T17:18:32+00:00

Simple: "So youre advocating genocide against an entire sex?"

They are literally saying it would be perfectly fine if men didnt exist. First step in killing off a group of people is acting like they create a problem and the world doesnt need them. If i said that the world could continue perfectly fine and we would be better off without trans people, it doesnt matter one fucking bit how correct i am. I am potentially justifying genocide.

vanduychr · 2023-01-21T20:56:18+00:00

Without men society would fail faster and nother would be solved if it did happen. This is misinformation that men are the root of all evil and women can be just as evil as men. Let look at highschool girls as a highlighter the type of behavior. Women are just as revenge filled. The difference is they wont have men to fight their battles for them. If men vanished i think women would end up with just as many wars if not more. Just as much hate filled decisions.

UnconventionalXY · 2023-01-22T14:35:23+00:00

It's not simply about reproduction: nature tries to ensure a maximum permutation of genes in the hopes that a greater percentage will be beneficial to the species evolution and resistance to disease etc. If you rely on a limited genetic spread, you start to head towards the issues associated with inbreeding and sperm banks represent a limited genetic spread compared to present practice. It's biologically bad practice and unless you track every fertilisation and donor, you can get half siblings inadvertently procreating. There have been various TV series that include something like this in their drama, where the true parentage is unknown to those who form relationships and inadvertently half-siblings get together unknowingly.

dtyler86 · 2023-01-22T20:38:28+00:00

Well it’s just plain idiotic. It’s not an argument, it’s genocide followed by infanticide. What will they do? Kill all the men then but first forcefully jerk off a ton of dudes for their semen and then kill all male babies?

orntuborg · 2023-01-22T22:59:17+00:00

This is one of those arguments that's like playing chess with a five year old: they can see what they're going to do, but they have no concept of the fact that the person they're playing isn't going to blindly follow along and let them win. It's like a teenage boy dreaming of a world where he was really a fifth level mage and could fight dragons... The argument is inviting you to compete with them in the structure they've created, and that structure is reductive: you (as a man, and one of a group of men) have no value. It's not really an argument that they want to have; they just want you to feel bad and then watch you simp and sputter as you try to justify your existence.

The best 'argument' against them is to first reject the frame of the statement while simultaneously reframing the person making the statement: these types of argument are an ignorant utopian fantasy and follow the same genocidal desires as tyrants have used in the past 120 years: "the world would be better if a particular class of citizen no longer existed". Feel free to draw comparisons to your favourite left- or right-wing atrocity: Herero, Armenians, Jews, Kulaks, Hutus, intellectuals, the unvaccinated etc. For example: "your idea that the world will be better if half of the population is exterminated, and the remainder simply harvested their genetic material to use in the laboratory, sounds very similar to Josef Mengele. When people call you Feminazis, I thought it was a joke but it looks like some of you really do want to eliminate entire groups of the human race". This one isn't subtle, but you get the idea.

Another option is to point out the ignorance of human nature and social order that underlies the fantasy. 50% of the population isn't going to 'play to lose' and let themselves become extinct, and a massive proportion of the other 50% don't want that either - they love men and love having men in their lives, and not just for the deep dicking, either... This fantasy also makes clear that the person talking has no idea about how society is currently structured, and just how fragile the whole social structure is. Absolutely devastating to lose 50% of the population overnight, but even if there was a secret 20 year plan to replace men, do you think men wouldn't notice (see 'play to lose', above) and do something about it? Some would of course argue that this plan is already in place given the continuing decline of boys and men in the western world...

My final suggestion is to laugh off the whole thing along the lines of 'this is a luxury fantasy'. Luxury meaning it can only play out if there is significant more free energy than now, and a stable level of technology and social order beyond what we have now. Given most current world economy projections predict at least 24 months of long slow recession or depression, coupled with current and worsening food shortages for poor economies and poorer citizens in wealthy countries, a more likely outcome is the same as we see in any stressed society: the woman you are arguing now will quickly trade sex for food, shelter, and protection, day by day, holding out hope she'll get lucky and become the fifth wife of a local merchant. This whole paragraph may or not be actually true, but it cuts directly to instinctive fears around self preservation, and those fears and actions are based on thousands of years of the history of the human race. Our current society is nine missed meals from this becoming true all over again. We can see this on TV, all around the world, right now. As much as most modern feminists think they'd be Katniss Everdeen when the shit hits the fan, they aren't and never will be. This last rebuttal is a very abrupt way to shatter the fantasy with reality.

Title	What are some counter-arguments to this feminist idea
Author	neighborhoodpainter
Upvotes	62
Comments	91
Date	January 20, 2023 9:28 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/10h8ppb/what_are_some_counterarguments_to_this_feminist/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/what-are-some-counter-arguments-to-this-feminist.1149581 https://theredarchive.com/post/1149581

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