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All-male Shakespeare cast causes sexism row. New Zealand. Regularly in "western society" there are all female productions and no one bats an eyelid! Just do a web search of "all female productions".

furchfur

July 23, 2018
1485 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-44884563
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Title All-male Shakespeare cast causes sexism row. New Zealand. Regularly in "western society" there are all female productions and no one bats an eyelid! Just do a web search of "all female productions".
Author

furchfur

Upvotes 1485
Comments 104
Date July 23, 2018 12:29 PM UTC
(7 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/916mvh/allmale_shakespeare_cast_causes_sexism_row_new/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/all-male-shakespeare-cast-causes-sexism-row-new.1186107
https://theredarchive.com/post/1186107
Red Pill terms in post
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Comments

[–]FarTooLong2 279 points280 points281 points 8 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

The BBC are proudly announcing 'all-female' lineups for discussion shows, comedies, panel discussions etc. As though all-female is something desirable, something we need or want.

[–]TheShShCreature 141 points142 points143 points 8 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

“We are happy to announce that we have reached a truly diverse employment spectrum for our company! 93% female, 30% Middle Eastern, 30% Asian, 30% Black, and 10% white!”

[–][deleted] 8 years ago* (13 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]whine_and_cheese 40 points41 points42 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Personally, I'm angry because I missed out on all the oppression fun.

I never got the chance to slap a waitresses ass or pass over a minority for a position they were qualified for.

I guess I'll have to be content with being a normal moral human like every other sex and race.

Sigh.

[–]TheShShCreature 33 points34 points35 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I am not Christian, but Christian white men probably have it the worst off. The senseless white and male hate coupled with the modern blind Christian hate.

[–][deleted] 8 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Ak3rno 18 points19 points20 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Sure, but try reading every single day about how you’re following a gang of child molesters who don’t believe in evolution. I don’t see anyone who has as many SJW angles of attack

[–]bakedpotato486 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

To be fair, not "believing" in evolution ought to be ridiculed. Might as well believe the sun revolves around our flat earth.

[–]Ak3rno 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not believing in evolution ought to be ridiculed, but most christians do believe in it, don’t lump us all in the same bunch as the old/extreme/dumb ones

[–][deleted] 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Dancing_Anatolia 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, the Pope has a huge science institute, right in Vatican City. And it's led by a Protestant, oddly enough.

[+]non-troll_account -6 points-5 points-4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

An ugly, white, straight Christian male. Welcome to /r/braincels or r/foreveralone.

[–]Ak3rno 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Fuck you read right through me fast

[–]sneakpeekbot -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]valenin -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not a religious one here, but I feel for you guys. That said, it sounds like almost exactly the situation a typical Republican/conservative is in. Following a gang of serial rapist Luddites. And on top of that they insinuate both groups (conservatives and the Christians) are individually stupid because they cant see their leadership is so obviously evil.

(Sarcasm on.) Good evening, quote miners! My views do indeed represent those of everyone participating in this sub, and even those of your enemies who aren't. (Sarcasm intensifies.)And just to be clear, those views are that conservatives and Christians are basically being held in worse than slavery while everyone in every other group lives trouble-free lives interrupted only by the inconvenience of having to hear the groans of the tortured when they have to walk by churches and golf courses, known and legally mandated gathering spots for the downtrodden. (Sarcasm off)

[–]killcat 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Have you seen the photo of the "diverse" editorial staff at the Huffpost, no men, none.

[–]TheShShCreature 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s because they have deep-seated discriminatory and revenge-based policies fueled by all their “social justice” hate.

[–]Xavierpony 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In order to create the most diver case we have seen the last fifty year selectively breeding a child with all of the major elements of all races

[–]ZeroSevenDK 129 points130 points131 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Wasn't Shakespeare originally played by all male casts?

[–]bobroe111 51 points52 points53 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes

[–]tricks_23 27 points28 points29 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Shakespeare was a patriarchal sexist pig

/s

[–]bobroe111 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

damn right he was

[–]valenin 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wait 'til they realize 'country matters' aren't referring to the proper methods for crop rotation.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And they were willing to even take on the roles of female characters, too.

[–]auMatech 204 points205 points206 points 8 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

All-Male anythings = outrage

Mixed anythings = "we can do better"

All-Female anythings = "optimal 'diversity'"

[–]vorgriff 58 points59 points60 points 8 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

Yea came here to say that! ALL of his productions were originally all male. Smh

[+]realvmouse -44 points-43 points-42 points 8 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

I love that you are acknowledging a history of exclusion of women, but also seem shocked that all-female productions exist.

It boggles my mind that you guys use "but what if the situation were reversed" and don't see how weak it is. "People are upset about an all-male cast? But there are all FEMALE casts, so why isn't THAT sexist? And besides, all the casts have been all male for 100s of years so why is anyone complaining anyway?!"

That... that doesn't make you stop and think about the nonsense you're spewing? Like... not even a little?

[–]theWolf371 33 points34 points35 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

The point is nobody complains about all-female productions. Why is anyone obligated to include any certain sex? If they want all male great, if they want all female great. Its the complaining that is a problem. The complainers should complain equally but they dont.

[+]realvmouse -29 points-28 points-27 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

why aren't attempts at corrective actions seen in the same light as actions furthering the problem? I just don't get it.

[–]frstr4706 29 points30 points31 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There is no problem with an all male production. If you truly want women to be equal with men then you have to accept that men need to be afforded all the same privilages as women. You can't just take a male privilege away and then give it to women. That's still unequal, just in women's favor.

[–]valenin 16 points17 points18 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Giving you the benefit of the doubt that there is a problem in the first place, when do 'corrective actions' stop? What is the goal? When does affirmative action go away, or allowing all-female X but not all-male X become both allowed or both disallowed?

Be specific. 'When women are equal.' Is a bullshit answer unless you provide a concrete, measurable definition of 'equal.'

[–]POSVT 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

All female casts are not corrective action, nor are all male casts furthering the problem. To accept your statement requires a bigoted worldview

[–]_pulsar 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So you don't want equality, you want revenge?

[–]tmone 14 points15 points16 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

and you guys do nothing but arbitrarily utilize the "history of oppression," pendulum argument as if that is some ultimate standard of logic and reason. no. it is not. because it is just as i said, arbitrary. when will that pendulum go far enough to satiate the bloodthirst? when will enough be enough?

so no, that shit doesnt work anymore. we hit the reset button. we are all starting from scratch. that is the only way logic and reason prevail, not your damned feelings.

[+]realvmouse -22 points-21 points-20 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Those bloodthirsty shakespearean actors.

Now that the majority of world leaders, judges, professors, executives, business owners, and other positions of power and authority are held by women, they should STOP! WHEN WILL IT BE ENOUGH!?!?!

[–]tmone 17 points18 points19 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

feminists cant help but use fallacies. now youre using the apex fallacy.

how come the most feminist and equal by all standards country, Sweden, STILL showcases male dominated positions? hmm, maybe because..shocking.....males and females have different interests and goals?? naww..its always sexism. always discrimination.

Those bloodthirsty shakespearean actors.

how nice of you to play stupid and conveniently forget about literally all the whining and moaning and outrage over the same exact scenario being played out daily.

So again, when will it be enough. do you want 50/50 representation in politics or, like, shakespeare actors, need a little more? when will you stop bitching? i really want an honest answer here.

[–]originalSpacePirate 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They continue to ignore your questions and they've lost whatever minor credibility they had

[–]tmone 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

next time you come into a sub that challenges your world view, be a little more prepared please. dont leave a conversation half way through if you are unable to defend yourself. believe it or not, you are a representative of your movement, and youre not doing feminism any favors.

[+]realvmouse -8 points-7 points-6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

open and shut case

bad rationalizations don't need responses ;-)

[–]tmone 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

lol. whatever helps you sleep at night. that was some low effort attempt at saving face if ive ever seen one.

[–]Greg_W_Allan 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Actors bow because they were once considered to be of the lowest class. Everybody in the audience was their superior. In Shakespeare's era no woman was of that class. No woman would lower herself.

[–]jgzman 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That... that doesn't make you stop and think about the nonsense you're spewing?

That all-male is sexist, but all female is fine? That is rather nonsensical, isn't it?

[–]Draggonzz 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Pretty much.

The meaning of 'diversity' has really become twisted.

[–]phoenix335 59 points60 points61 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Diversity means "no white males".

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Forgot straight

[–]Arronicus 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No, I'm pretty sure gay white males are included in the societies oppressors category. Male whiteness overrides being gay.

[–]valenin 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Depends. Are they co-opting a pride event? Then being gay is oppressed.

[–]phoenix335 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That depends on if they hold conservative opinions. Then they're called the worst things ever by SJWs, just like they attack conservative black people.

[–]oameliao 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It wasn't even about diversity in this case but about the company trying to cash in on the metoo movement. These shows are usually popular people just had a problem with the whole hashtag being used to promote it

[–]PM_ME_UR_PC_SPECS 106 points107 points108 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

New Zealand, check.

Outrage over historical accuracy, check.

Not a NZ news source, check.

[–]Camcamcam753 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

In New Zealand we're rather laid back with feminism. Not as many idiots as SOME parts of the world.

[–]PM_ME_UR_PC_SPECS 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I know, I live here. There is Jakinda Surprise, but she is not too bad

[–]Camcamcam753 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Meh, it's not like her talking point was "We need a female leader"... nudges America

[–]PM_ME_UR_PC_SPECS 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Trump needs to build a greatgreat wall around the entire US, and put a lid on it,

[–]Camcamcam753 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If only...

[–][deleted] 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]tricks_23 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I am outraged. Where do I cash this outrage for article space?

[–]Couldawg 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

True colors shown. It's not about highlighting injustice or drawing attention to an issue (in order to promote natural change). It's simply about numbers. More members from our group, fewer members from their group. More stuff for us. Less stuff for them.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points19 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

please use an archive link instead of giving the bbc traffic

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

it isnt like they have ads

[–]Ted8367 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

The usual one-way sexism, getting worked up over an all-male cast (we all hear about that) but ignoring a similar all-woman cast.

Auckland actor Rosie Cann, 22, said she believed the tradition of men playing female roles was outdated and should fall by the wayside.

She said last year some women reversed the convention and had an all-female cast put on a Shakespeare play. They called themselves the Lord Lackbeards and their lead actor was six months pregnant.

"Which was so amazing. So much more interesting to watch than straight white dudes."

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11780699

[–]tricks_23 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

That's. That's literally the nail on the head. That's sexism

[–]realvmouse 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/916mvh/allmale_shakespeare_cast_causes_sexism_row_new/e2wk3zm/

[–]salbris 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Serious question, say we all agreed to give up complaining about these people trying to undo historically bad things and we just accept them 100%. At what point have we made up for history? For each play put on that excluded women should we have one all female cast to balance it out? Then we call it a day and go back to a free-for-all of talent?

How about we stop with all that silliness and just create awesome things without worrying about "diversity"?

[–]tricks_23 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely spot on

[–]Aivias 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I dont see why we dont just do everything twice. Make every play, show, band, movie, tv show, radio show, talk show, youtube channel and book twice, once with good, fair and appropriate casting and one with a brown woman in every role.

[–]salbris 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But we still have to make up for all the oppression in the past so maybe lets make 3x as many books?

[–]Imnotmrabut 25 points26 points27 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

So the Biased Broadcasting Corp now has to turn the world down side up to find a story to fit editorial bias.

I can't wait until they find life on Mars and it's asexual. The pronoun bun fight will be spectacular.

[–]valenin 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They'd be men.

There was a whole book about it and everything, like 20 years ago. Too bad for them Venus isn't as likely to have life on it.

[–]Hessmix 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

deleted

[–]croidhubh 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Uh...they're just doing it the historical way...originally productions WERE all men and the plays were written as such...

[–]thrway_1000 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nothing can be all-male anymore but all-female is great. So much for feminists and their "equality".

Archive -- https://archive.is/nq3o0

[–]Karma9999 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

"No such thing as bad advertising". This may have been a really good move.

[–]mrmrevin 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup, I'm a kiwi and I had no idea about this pop up theater. Might have to check it out one day.

[–]Igloo32 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Never mind that historically, Shakespearean plays often had actors in drag for some female roles.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

... Shakespeare's plays were written and produced for the all male theater companies. Producing it in this method is historically accurate .

[–]aspoels 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean, back in Shakespearean times wasn’t the theatre men only in terms of acting?

[–]The_Original_Gronkie 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A little perspective here. The problem wasnt the all-male cast, it was the use of #metoo and #timesup to promote it. They are irrelevant to the subject matter (except maybe Taking of the Shrew, but that's a separate discussion, and an interesting one, actually) and obviously poor PR attempts at drawing attention. Doing Shakespeare with an all male cast is actually authentic to the original productions, but why would you use those hash tags? Hey look, it's in iambic pentameter, let's promote it as a rap show. Makes no sense. They should be slapped not for being sexist, but for being stupid.

[–]Godkun007 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wasn't Shakespeare's original plays all male? I remember reading that he would often have clean shaven men playing women.

[–]50PercentLies 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Feminists are idiots. The production better defend their rights

[–]tricks_23 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They apologised like the spineless victims of oppressive feminism usually do

[–]MasonTaylor22 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

First world feminist problems.

[–]DRUNKEN_ELVIS 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Equality..

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Great idea use "#metoo" to advertise junk

[–]Heffree 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Some of the upset is from the theatre using #MeToo to promote themselves.

[–]horsesandeggshells 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So, producer does everything he can to appear controversial, gets exactly what he wants, and makes the play.

I mean, come one: He picked a play that is about subjugating women in marriage, makes it all-male, and then starts tweeting out #metoo until someone notices.

This would be like doing an all-white Othello while screaming black lives matter. You're making controversy.

And that's cool. I think this could be a little bit clever, especially if he makes allegories to gay marriage, but he had to work hard for this outrage.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm totally for more female acts and productions, but in no way am I for the censoring of one of the best artists of the past.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If Dr Who can be a woman, Juliet can be a man. Hell, back in the day Juliet WAS a man!

[–]skwishy29 -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Literally everyone bats both eyelids when There’s an all female movie. Ghostbusters: terrible reviews, everyone hates how forced it is that they added women. Same with the new oceans movie. Find me one all female lead movie that doesn’t get shit reviews for being forced.

[–]Daemonicus 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

They're not criticised for featuring mostly women. They're criticised, because they're shit movies.

Do you want to know why they shit on them for being forced? Because they're forced. It's not complicated. Instead of completely shitting on the inspiration, while trying to use nostalgia for ticket sales, they should have just made original properties.

Find me one all female lead movie that doesn’t get shit reviews for being forced.

The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, Thelma & Louise, Bridesmaids, Mean Girls, Steel Magnolias, Stage Door, The Women (1939 version), Career Girls. There's plenty more, but that should be enough.

[–]skwishy29 -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

OP said “all women films are made and no one bats an eye”

[–]Daemonicus 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Yes, and nobody batted an eyelid with the movies I listed, simply because they were female led.

You are making the argument that they are "batting eyelids" because it's women in the movies, which is just false. They're batting eyelids because it's a movie that shits on an already existing property. Just like how people shit on the Old Boy remake, or the Akira live action movie, or any other movie that that is just another remake or sequel.

[–]skwishy29 -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

You’re right but I would still say people getting mad about a male cast is so rare it’s not even worth mentioning

[–]Daemonicus 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure how rare it is. It's all newly recruited Hollywood SJWs talk about.

These problems don't go away by ignoring. They go away with critical conversation.

[–]skwishy29 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Would you consider posting this to men’s rights critical conversation?

[–]Daemonicus 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No, that sub seems too niche. But you can.

[–]skwishy29 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wait what? Is that a joke or something?

[–]Rhotomago 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Annihilation was pretty well received

[–]skwishy29 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well there are men in that movie, but idc since I should’ve worded it differently. I’m just saying there are movies that are mostly women that are criticized, just like a few only men movies will be criticized.

[–][deleted] 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]skwishy29 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sure cuz some people got made about something it’ll be gone in 25 years. The KKK exists, so black people will be gone soon too I guess. Your claim only makes sense if this was a majority opinion

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ironically the chances are a large portion of them are Gay...just the Left eating itself yet again.

[+]BlackSet -8 points-7 points-6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Nah dude, I get it but there’s a bit more to this story that the simplified title.

1-The company is the biggest theatre company in NZ and has a history of casting very few women which means women losing out on a lot of jobs and people (specifically equity) getting annoyed.

Now that’s all fine right cause it’s up to the people in charge who they want to cast which is why it’s never been news, just a few people getting shitty.

2- (and the reason that its big news) is the fact that they used the metoo and timesup hashtags to promote the shows along with titling it the “abuse of power season” all of which are predominantly feminist issues and the Taming of the shrew (which is one of the all male casts) is a fiercely feminist show which is a bit shit to do, taking away some of the best female roles in Shakespeare from women.

I fully believe that the company has every right to hire whoever they want but if you’re going to use feminism to promote your work then you need to back that shit up with hiring equally.

[–]Cryhavok101 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

the Taming of the shrew is a fiercely feminist show

It's one of shakespears most misogynistic stories. How is it a fiercely feminist show?

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