Men's Rights and Feminism

SporkOfThor · 2010-08-14T22:20:44+00:00

Part of the problem seems to be that some women have been abused by men, get together to gripe about it, and because they share the same experiences, in their limited experience men are labeled bullies. As someone who was shorter than 5' and less than 100 lbs through most of high school, I can tell you I got bullied, too. Women somehow forget the terrible social bullying that women inflict on each other, and instead bond against a common enemy: the opposite sex. That I am lumped into the same category as the asshole bullies who oppressed me and them both is adding insult to injury. We need to remember that victims can just as quickly become oppressors, because of pent-up anger and sense of injustice, given the opportunity. It's just human nature. And while I am helpful and courteous to the women I know at work, they feel free to openly condemn all men, right in front of me, and sometimes scowl at me when I walk into a room when they're having one of these discussions. They will sometimes stop, then exempt me from the majority of oppressive males, if they are feeling generous. Otherwise, I am treated quite politely and am always implicitly trusted all the time. I think they are venting, then feel better about it, then act decently, but I still feel unnerved by the idea that if they are under stress, I, or my gender, is singled out as the bad guy. It is a little discussed fact that emergency rooms get about the same number of men as they do women injured in domestic violence. It is really a human rights issue we are all working toward, not a women's or men's rights issue, and should be treated as such.

FreddyDeus · 2010-08-15T02:06:28+00:00

There are women who hate men. I am not one of them, and that is not feminism.

Unfortunately, the most visible forms of feminism are perpetually critical of men. They blame men for all the ills of women, while at the same time absolving women of taking responsibility for their own actions and decisions, and quite obviously does not support equal rights by virtue of the fact that the rights for which feminism most visibly fights work only in the favour of women.

I'm sorry that this doesn't fit into your view of feminism. Maybe you have to question whether your views can be adequately described as feminist. The fact is that the soundtrack of men's lives has been, for as long as I can remember it, a constant stream of complaints, accusations and condemnations of men.

FishKiss · 2010-08-15T10:05:57+00:00

I see feminists such as the OP as the unwitting "sheepskins" the wolves of the feminist leadership clothe themselves in, in order to maintain some semblance of respectability.

What is "real" feminism? Is it the dictionary definition believed by feminists such as the OP, who seem to be bystanders, never involved in setting any feminist group's policies and goals--or the feminism of those who are at the core of lobbying, policy setting and activism?--Whose feminism in practice revolves around advocacy for women's issues, actively opposing any attempts to focus on issues facing boys and men (denying their validity and actively trying to shut them down).

Are you what you say you are, or what you do? Is feminism what the dictionary defines it as and its uninvolved hangers-on believe it to be, or what its core adherents consistently put into practice?

The OP and others like her sincerely believe that the "equality" definition of feminism is "real feminism"--and IMO feminist leaders also want this to be seen as feminism's public face, because it portrays man-hating radicals as outliers who aren't even "real feminists," obscuring the fact that they are actually the very heart and driving force of the whole movement.

Which is why I (and most MRAs IMO) can't support feminism as it is systematically practiced. You can't call a punch a kiss and expect me to close my eyes and pucker up to receive one.

Siren5864 · 2010-08-14T21:52:11+00:00

[permanently deleted]

sooner930 · 2010-08-15T02:31:08+00:00

Of course people can claim any label they want for themselves, but it seems to me that "humanist" is a more appropriate label for the philosophy you describe.

fishwish · 2010-08-14T19:11:06+00:00

Hi. Welcome.

There are women who hate men. I am not one of them, and that is not feminism. You can look up the definition if you'd like, a feminist is someone who fights for gender equality, which includes men's rights.

I'm glad you have the right idea. I am sure you have observed by now that just about every female view point gets lumped in with feminism and many women will proclaim their righteousness of their views by saying that they are a feminist. While some of the quieter people under the feminist banner support equal rights, many of the more vocal ones do not. In fact, some of the more vocal ones will insist that anyone who fights for men's rights or addresses men's issues is by definition a misogynist. It kind of leaves a bitter taste in our mouths that some women try to rule the debate by demanding that they get to define the terms.

What you have may be a dictionary definition. But it doesn't meet real world experiences with self proclaimed feminists. It kind of smarts when people run around proclaiming that if you don't support feminism you must be a bigot. As I said, there is the dictionary definition, and how feminist movements behave in the real world.

I understand this has a focus on men, and feminism has a focus on women, but they do not oppose each other.

Not necessarily. But I accept that there are many points where honest people can disagree. For instance on the point of "equality." Shooting for hard core equality can cause problems as there are actual differences between men and women. Trying to treat people in a gender blind fashion does not always produce the best result for both genders. I feel as if this is something that is lost in the conversation sometimes.

Acting like they do is misleading and not constructive to either of our causes in the least.

I don't really feel it is misleading. It does piss off a lot of women who carry the feminism banner. We are talking about real world self proclaimed feminists, not your idealized vision of what they should be.

ristin · 2010-08-14T21:56:35+00:00

I'm a woman, and a feminist. I just discovered the Men's Rights subreddit, and I love it. It's really great and refreshing to see guys basically rooting for the same causes that I am and bringing into question sexist stereotypes of our society.

Greetings and welcome.

I've been an activist for several men's rights causes (as well as women's) including custody rights for fathers, negative portrayal of men in popular media, and ending the bullying brought on by guys not living up to outdated and ridiculous "male" stereotypes.

The "gender equality" approach, excellent.

HERE'S THE BIG PROBLEM: The very first thing this sub says is "Earning scorn from feminists since March 19, 2008."

Some feminists, like you, want gender equality. Some seem to want gender-payback, openly hate all men, and oppose men's rights. Though you'd probably say "they're doing it wrong" and I'd likely agree, they do a lot of damage to the cause of gender equality and are actively working to reduce the legal rights, opportunities and social status of men.

Now, too many people here will fail to make the distinction between feminist types so sorry if you feel people are criticising you for the actions of your peers. It's a bit like all the various religious people rankling when they are blamed for the actions of their more radical / evangelical peers.

There are women who hate men. I am not one of them, and that is not feminism.

Thank you.

You can look up the definition if you'd like, a feminist is someone who fights for gender equality, which includes men's rights.

Unfortunately a lot of people claiming to be feminists don't actually hold to those principles and are using feminism (knowingly or unknowingly) as a shield to justify their sexism and bigotry. A similar example would be there are plenty of men using the MRA movement to justify being sexist against women.

I understand this has a focus on men, and feminism has a focus on women, but they do not oppose each other. Acting like they do is misleading and not constructive to either of our causes in the least.

Yes. The sexist elements of each movement are a major impediment to achieving gender equality. But sadly the people doing so and the damage they cause must be recognised, not ignored.

What you are opposing is not feminism. It's misandry. And that is not what real feminists or feminism is about, period.

Yes. Definitely. But usually when I point that out I get called a woman-hater or anti-feminist and so on. Could you please do so? Instead of coming here and complaining to us (the victims of misandry) could you please work from within the feminist community to correct the problem? You have privileges and rights which males do not and could use your position to make a difference where it counts.

Sorry, it's just saddening to see a possible source of support pushed away because of bias... when Men's Rights is supposed to be about ending bias in the first place.

Please don't blame the victims of misandry. And please don't stereotype every advocate of men's rights working for equality for men just because some are hurt by misandrist-feminists.

It's the wrong approach. I suggest that here you spread the word that "good news, feminism isn't misandry" and among the feminist community spread the word that misandry is hurting the cause, and reminding the misandrists of the real meaning of feminism.

Meanwhile we should try to be more specific about which branches of the feminism movement are a problem and have lost their way...

What do you think?

a_true_bro · 2010-08-15T06:29:31+00:00

Might I suggest you go and make a thread like this in the TwoXChromosomes and/or feminisms subreddits? If you truly are serious about what you say...

Feckless · 2010-08-14T19:56:51+00:00

Good god, every goddamn time....EVERY GODDAMN TIME.

WHY GOD, WHY OH WHY....

Okay, I'll do the following, like before, I go to r/feminisms, click on the Faq about feminism and copy some points from that faq:

What are your thoughts on that one:

Feminism: The advocacy of women`s rights on the grounds of sexual equality (OED)

Given the historical and continued imbalance of power, where men as a class are privileged over women as a class (see male privilege), an important, but often overlooked, part of the term is that sexism is prejudice plus power. Thus feminists reject the notion that women can be sexist towards men because women lack the institutional power that men have.

it should be noted that, while men have what’s called male privilege that doesn’t mean that there must logically be a “female privilege” counterpart. This is because, although many strides towards equality have been made over the years, women as a class have not yet leveled the playing field, much less been put in a position of power and authority equivalent to that which grants institutional power to men as a class.

No one is saying that discussions on men and masculinities shouldn’t go on. It is absolutely important to have dialogue on men’s issues, including discussions on violence done towards men. The thing is, a feminist space — unless the topic is specifically men’s issues — is not the place to have that discussion and neither are spaces (feminist or otherwise) in which the topic is specifically focused on women’s issues.

However, research that covers all the bases shows that there are many, many, many more battered women than there are battered men. Battered men deserve to be listened to and provided with services and protected from their abusers, but there simply is not the numerical demand for the same level of services for battered men as there is for battered women.

And to clarify, some shit I wrote a few days before:

I'll make it short and sweet. There is nothing wrong with fighting for women's right. However, if feminist groups such as NOW actually fight against joint custody because that would "give abusers (=fathers) more power", they are pretty much against us.

And there are several topics where this is the case. Be it feminist reactions to male victims of DV/rape (by ignoring them, by fighting to keep the information on male victims suppressed), be it being opposed to father's rights or simply the normal hatred the average men's rights activist gets.

I am aware that a bunch of you are fairly egalitarian and I salute you, great for you guys, bravo, applause. But as long as powerful feminist groups oppose what we are fighting for, they can only be our enemies.

fishwish · 2010-08-14T19:12:30+00:00

I love reading Jezebel, mainly for the comments. It has a great way of cutting right through all the gender equality doublespeak and showing very clearly what is really going on. Guys know feminism and misandry are different in theory, but we also know they are the same in practice.

kellyeddy · 2010-08-14T20:41:53+00:00

When MR was founded, we were called "rape apologists" by almost every "feminist" group that saw us. I don't mean we should support demonizing "feminism," but it seems the majority of feminists are not wanting equality.

Zakrah · 2010-08-14T19:13:01+00:00

A lot of MRAs know that there is a difference between a decent feminist and an elietist feminazi, but the latter is the most outspoken and influential voice, and it has to be fought against.

You_know_THAT_guy · 2010-08-15T02:34:35+00:00

I'm sure lots of feminists out there are for equality for both sexes, but they don't seem very vocal in opposition to the misanthropic "feminists."

2010-08-15T05:27:22+00:00

Great to hear this.

Would you agree in legal terms that men now have more areas of legal disadvantage than women do?

Just want to hear a different viewpoint on this.

rampantdissonance · 2010-08-14T19:06:55+00:00

Feminism is gender equality only in dictionaries and politically correct doublespeak. In sociology and political science feminism can be defined as simply as 'more rights for women' - and what things really are matters much more than what they are perceived to be.

And that is not what real feminists or feminism is about, period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_scotsman

ending the bullying brought on by guys not living up to outdated and ridiculous "male" stereotypes.

You are mad, most men don't give a shit about how other men live their lives. The only looks of disdain I receive after claiming that marriage 2.0 is pointless and harmful for a man are from women. Even my father's generation (who are in their 60s) are very understanding of me when I explain them my reasoning and give some examples. Try discussing that kind of stuff with any female (even someone with university education) and you'll be labelled a 'sexist misogynist chauvinist sex offender pig' faster than you can say 'justice for all'.

Hamakua · 2010-08-14T23:06:43+00:00

What you are opposing is not feminism. It's misandry. And that is not what real feminists or feminism is about, period.

I am sorry, but you are severely mistaken. I love women like you who are able to logically see past the hypocritical BS of some organizations, but something you really don't see, is how few and far between "your" type of feminism is. Your camp, which I associate with the kinds of wonderful people at iFeminists.com Who tend to have the same viewpoint as you, of "true" equality where it can be had, is a minority. The slogan under their site name is "-- explore the new feminism --". Your viewpoint is not "feminism" it's a more rational subsection of feminism that even a site sees as "new feminism".

Sorry, it's just saddening to see a possible source of support pushed away because of bias... when Men's Rights is supposed to be about ending bias in the first place.

There is an argument from some "leaders" of the Men's Movement, one that I agree with, but would not participate with. The Men's Movement NEEDS "extremists" because the opposing side has them, without them we don't have a counter-balance.

Actually, I have been following the men's rights movement for over 10 years now, since I was in my teens, and what you are actually suggesting, is that "we" go back to the way we were.

Feminism today, and the globally white-washed misandry towards men, was born from men not getting mad and standing aside and allowing the other side to guilt trip them into feeling like rapists, child molestors, wife beaters... etc. etc.

Women did not "Take" all this "power", it was relinquished by men out of guilt and our biologically programmed propensity to please prospective mates. It's far more complicated than a simple power struggle. It has been 40+ years of systematic deconstructing and vilifying of what it means to be a "man".

I am not talking Don Juan, I am talking Atticus Finch. A man beating his wife was never seen as a good thing, or celebrated to the extent feminism likes to suggest. What it was was issues within families was considered by society to be something that had to be dealt with behind closed doors.

I so could go on, and would love to, but walls of text are unwieldy.

I have plenty more to say but leave reading with this in mind:

I understand your point of view, it's not incorrect, however to achieve what you want would be to allow "Feminism" (not your kind) to run rampant, not like it already isn't.

Glayden · 2010-08-14T22:13:22+00:00

a feminist is someone who fights for gender equality

If that were true, I'd be a feminist. But it's not. It fights for women's rights, and women's rights alone.

Liverotto · 2010-08-14T19:25:09+00:00

What you are opposing is not feminism. It's misandry.

Arguing semantics won't change reality.

Generally speaking feminists are a bunch of misandrists.

But in reality it is egalitarianism that is at fault, having to pretend that we are all equal forces us to treat people very differently to increase equality of outcome.

entertherabbit · 2010-08-14T19:13:39+00:00

a feminist is someone who fights for gender equality, which includes men's rights.

In theory perhaps, in practice it comes out as lawful misandry and discrimination on numerous levels. If feminism were about "equality" the movement would've been called equalism or humanism. They're exclusively focused on female privileges and are opportunistically seeking to increase them on all levels. They generally don't give a shit about exclusively male problems. Go to /r/Feminism and read the message on the right "posts on women's issues and women's rights". See, no men there.

Feminism is like Communism - great in theory, harmonious and classless society of justice and equality, but in practice it actualizes as something horribly different. When serfs (men) no longer buy the fairy-tale propaganda of the supreme leader and his party (womyn) they've been fed with their entire lives, thats when the entire structure collapses. (and lots of people die as a consequence)

punkypoet · 2010-08-14T20:59:16+00:00

labels suck. I'm a female and I have never considered myself to be a feminist. But I do give the caveat that (as someone born in the '80's), I've never really had to be one. I've never felt I had to fight for my place in society as a woman. Maybe that's just me.

Anal_Angus · 2010-08-15T10:44:54+00:00

To say one earns scorn from feminists does not mean they earn scorn from all feminists, or only feminists.

I ate apples. Did i eat all apples? Did i eat only apples? You don't know because I didn't give you enough information to draw those conclusions. All you know is that I ate an undisclosed number of apples.

melb22 · 2010-08-14T23:37:29+00:00

Most feminists believe in patriarchy theory. And once you believe in patriarchy theory you're going to end up hostile to men. Why?

Patriarchy theory claims that sex distinctions are artificial social constructs created by one group of people ("men") in order to maintain an unearned privilege over the "other" ("women"). All aspects of society are thought to have been created for this purpose, including the use of violence, abuse and rape to control women. A feminist who seriously believes the theory will think that men have created an entire system based on force and violence to live comfortable lives at the expense of victimised women.

Such feminists are incapable of seeing that millions of men throughout history made great sacrifices out of love for their wives and children. So there's no gratitude and no sense of a common purpose in the efforts of men and women in history. There's also little sense that ordinary men are not privileged in the way that feminism takes them to be, so there's resistance to the idea that men might be treated poorly in modern society (in the legal system for instance).

Maschalismos · 2010-08-15T07:59:18+00:00

Siren5864. Id like to number my points if I may.

1.You rock (assuming you are not CryptoGirl's Alt). your attitude is refreshing and welcome, if genuine. You are gonna need some very thick skin, though. A lot of us have been hurt very very badly, and are BITTER motherfuckers. You have been warned.

2. Most of us want women to be equal too. I am a BIG fan of the early suffragettes, and especially Susan B. Anthony. I cannot STAND people telling me women are less intelligent than men, or should not be allowed to make their own life choices. I myself, run escort for women at an abortion clinic.

3. Most of us are convinced that feminism has nothing to do with equality per se. It is about gaining power for women. Full stop. I too, used to think that feminism was all for gender equality. Truth be told, once upon a time, they were, since equality represented a net gain of power.

Now that I see that women's rights in society now somewhat exceeds that of men, I see feminist groups pushing for more and more rights. No letting up. No stopping and saying 'whoops. that went a little too far the OTHER way. Our bad.' Just the blind push for MORE POWER. ALWAYS. Come hell or high water.

So, most of us can't help but think that 'equality' was a throwaway word for feminism, a word used to get power.

4. Most feminists simply CANNOT understand points #2 and 3. All they know is that their grandmothers couldn't do certain things, and so want to make sure that NEVER happens again. Any criticism of an individual woman is regarded as a desire to oppress the female gender as a whole.

JLContessa · 2010-08-14T21:57:33+00:00

If you've looked around MensRights long, you'll find that they consider the definition of feminism to be misandry, and that it's OUR logical fallacy when we say that misandry is not true feminism.

I'll probably be downvoted into oblivion, but that has been my overwhelming experience.

2010-08-14T19:11:42+00:00

Well, this will be interesting.

I wish you luck.

neofool · 2010-08-14T22:52:02+00:00

The author Paul Nathanson divides feminism into two camps, equality feminists and ideological feminists. The first strive for equality between all people, the second push for divisions between people and demonizing though who hold an opposing view or even slightly different view.

I always assumed the "earning scorn" heading referred to the second group.

AnnArchist · 2010-08-15T01:57:48+00:00

Sorry, a feminist is a person who fights for WOMENS rights. Not gender equity. Fighting for Gender equity makes you a gender egalitarian, not a feminist.

Siren5864 · 2010-08-15T02:50:40+00:00

I am often embrassed by some of the other men in here who really sound just like the feminists they are complaining about. Blaming every injustice ever imposed on a man on the big bad feminists. I hope most in here, are here in the interests of equality, but they often get shouted down by those who think men rights is the same thing as counterfeminism. I think the two movements should be complimentary, not counter to each other. Sure, it's not a perfect world and that's not always the case... but sometimes it is.

a_true_bro · 2010-08-15T06:19:56+00:00

Would you call yourself a masculinist?

kanuk876 · 2010-08-14T19:31:18+00:00

Sure, one of the definitions of feminism is egalitarian. It's a lot more useful to use "Feminism" to describe the movement(s), though. From that perspective, a great deal of feminism is misandry.

There's lots of feminists that actually are egalitarian (I'd say more than half at least try to be, and/or are better than the average person), but the number of sexists is too large to ignore.

It's important to recognize that there is a wide range of feminist beliefs, and not label any self-identified "feminist" as a sexist without talking to them first. But it's also important to recognize that someone who calls themselves "feminist" could very well be very sexist, and groups that label themselves as "feminist" often fight against equality.

I'm sure I'm not the only guy here who grew up thinking of feminism as a great movement that wanted equality for everyone. If I had actually found it to be so, I wouldn't be in this subreddit.

Amesly · 2010-08-15T02:41:39+00:00

You folks mean the loudest, most extreme of a group are making wild accusations? And hiding behind the name of (what at least used to be) a respected group? Shocker! You've learned to ignore this and yet respect the larger entities in other realms (believers in Islam aren't all terrorists, in Christianity aren't all racists who believe in creationism, etc.), why discount all of feminism?

stemgang · 2010-08-15T03:17:55+00:00

I've been an activist for several men's rights causes (as well as women's) including custody rights for fathers.

You wish us to believe that you are a feminist who supports men's rights, and that other feminists support men's rights too. Please understand that this is surprising and new to many of us.

I would like to believe you. Can you give an example of yourself supporting men's custody rights? How about any feminist other than yourself?

I understand that most feminists consider themselves egalitarians. But the activists who promote misandrist legislation are quite different. It is quite likely that many feminists do not understand the impact of the agenda they are supporting.

kanuk876 · 2010-08-14T21:20:11+00:00

when Men's Rights is supposed to be about ending bias in the first place.

Men will decide for themselves what Men's Rights is about.

Projection rejected.

PublicStranger · 2010-08-14T21:52:49+00:00

When people like Valerie Solanas, Andrea Dworkin, and Catherine McKinnon are called what they are -- misandrists -- instead of feminists, then you can accuse MRAs of tarring feminists with a broad brush. Until then, get your own fucking house in order before you presume to tell us about the cobwebs in ours.

2010-08-14T22:20:39+00:00

I'm the same way, men's rights are essential to feminism in some ways because the existing rules in place for rape, custody, etc. are based around victimizing the woman and reinforcing assigned gender roles. I'm glad to see I'm not alone in this. :)

DubiumGuy · 2010-08-14T21:45:23+00:00

What you are opposing is not feminism. It's misandry.

Exactly. Its just a shame that quite a few 'feminists' seems to confuse the two....

TheBananaKing · 2010-08-14T22:56:34+00:00

Is there a reason we can't drop feminism, masculism, blackism, and in fact <group>ism in general, and just take up egalitarianism?

Seriously.

People should be equal. When and where they are not being treated equally, we should speak up.

ignatiusloyola · 2010-08-15T01:49:28+00:00

Well, the word "feminism" has oh so many uses now.

What it comes down to is that people that call themselves feminists (correctly or incorrectly) do scorn many people here.

2010-08-15T08:22:01+00:00

Feminist is just a fucking label. You're either for equality or not.

TheBananaKing · 2010-08-14T22:52:38+00:00

So, an X-ist is someone who stands for equal advocacy of X and not-X?

Shall we try it?

Capitalist: One who holds that there should be an equal admixture of privately- and communally-owned resources.

Communist: One who holds that there should be an equal admixture of privately- and communally-owned resources.

Racist: One who advocates racial equality.

Optimist: One who advocates the neutral interpretation of circumstances.

Atheist: One who believe there may or may not be a god.

Anarchist: Onewho seeks a balance of state and individual power.

Feminist...

falsehood · 2010-08-14T23:08:08+00:00

Who gets to define "feminism?"

Men's Rights people? Large feminist groups? The OP?

Why can't we just forget the damn labels and talk about specific policies? I don't care what you call yourself; either you support legit child support and marriage policies or you don't.

ilovebackne · 2010-08-16T01:53:14+00:00

this men's rights reddit seems to often hack at feminism and woman and in doing so perpetuates the very behavior pissing men off. i just don't understand the perpetual hypocrisy of gender-war.

kloo2yoo · 2010-08-14T19:27:57+00:00

HERE'S THE BIG PROBLEM: The very first thing this sub says is "Earning scorn from feminists since March 19, 2008."

that's new, and it stays.

What you are opposing is not feminism. It's misandry. And that is not what real feminists or feminism is about, period.

no, it's feminism. See FAQ 13

llogiq · 2010-08-14T21:30:21+00:00

I used to have the same idea when I came to the MR subreddit, but was soon brought to the conclusion that today's "spearhead of feminism" is actually a big kettle of man-haters.

Yes, it is not "real feminism" in the original sense of the term. It's a shame, but the term feminism has been hijacked by misandrists. MensRights is in opposition of these "feminists" in the modern sense, not in the 1970's sense.

lodemann · 2010-08-14T22:04:07+00:00

i am sorry, as a man i can not consider myself a feminist.

i love the idea of equal rights for men and women, so i coined the word "equilibrialist" for it, that i have been using. to me, feminism just has a bad sound to it, like it leans towards one side.

i don't do that

rampantdissonance · 2010-08-14T20:51:01+00:00

a possible source of support pushed away because of bias

LOL, there are almost as many feminists here as there are men. We really don't need any more thanks.

Maschalismos · 2010-08-15T08:13:59+00:00

Waitaminnit,

Are you SURE you aren't CryptoGirl in disguise? Your writing style and placative attitude (As well as your brand-spanking new account) make me a bit suspicious.

Siren5864 · 2010-08-15T10:30:28+00:00

Siren.... nice name considering the subreddit lol

I can't believe how willing people are in this forum to go on in such detail and be so thorough when the OP is willfully misinterpreting and/or overanalysing or just plain ignoring the simple flippantness of the comment 'earning scorn from feminists since march 10, 2008'

as someone said below (i replied there too but i want to reply directly to the post),

Generally speaking feminists are a bunch of misandrists.

the OP's next sentence is

there are women who hate men

The statement is not about women, it is about feminists. Get back to us when you aren't trying to insult our intelligence.

CapoNumen · 2010-08-15T06:19:43+00:00

I hope you are enjoying your "equality", because when the shit hits the fan and natural law takes over again, the natural division of power will very rapidly snap back into place. The idea that a man is equal to a woman and the reverse is one of the most tragic "leftist" frauds perpetrated on this country and it is rapidly destroying it. The "majority minority" and such things as "CRIMES AGAINST WOMEN" is ample proof this nonsense has gone far off the rails. This is simply nowhere near EQUAL UNDER THE LAW!

I can tell you our competitors in Asia and China have no qualms whatsoever in using our weakness such as this against us, and you can be sure they have no such illusions of equality of the sexes and they are Communists!

Each sex has natural gifts and abilities the other rarely if never achieves, and academia's prostrations to prove otherwise are a thinly veiled sham. It is this kind of politically correct nonsense that is running rampant in the scientific community today and is what enables such pseudo sciences such as numeric climate modeling to rise to highly unwarranted and dangerous prominence in public policy. Furthermore each and every one of you knows full well that the sexes are not equal, but very few have the guts to admit it.

Without TRUTH there can be no JUSTICE!

peo2212 · 2010-08-15T17:12:54+00:00

you're a woman which means you're automatically too stupid to even grasp your own hypocrisy. now go do your nails.

Siren5864 · 2010-08-15T12:27:18+00:00

It seems that lately all this extra estrogen in beer is making men grow big vaginas.

2010-08-14T20:10:52+00:00

looks like we've acquired yet another delusional feminist cretin.

Title	Men's Rights and Feminism
Author	Siren5864
Upvotes	81
Comments	320
Date	August 14, 2010 6:43 PM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/d16yd/mens_rights_and_feminism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/mens-rights-and-feminism.1048094 https://theredarchive.com/post/1048094

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