Question for all Pills: Jealousy and Sexuality

GridReXX · 2015-01-09T16:04:02+00:00

as a man or woman, would you be more willing to stick around after one type of infidelity than another? Or are both types of infidlities a deal-breaker for the relationship?

Purely sexual cheating is embarrassing. It's disrespectful. And the thought of him or her in sweaty ecstasy with another person would bother me and possibly lead to resentment.

Emotional cheating or some mix of both means everything from the aforementioned, plus the fear that you may leave me before I leave you and the unnerving thought they they have affection for another person.

So both bother me.

Many of us are non-hetero, do you think this has an impact on how TRP is viewed or argued against in general?

I think men view women as creatures that have to protected. One imperfection and she's sullied forever.

I think male sexuality is seen as degrading the passive party for a lot of people.

Considering those two things, it makes sense that two gay men are less bothered by sexual infidelity. And two lesbian women may be less bothered by it.

[deleted] · 2015-01-09T15:58:19+00:00

for me, both types are a dealbreaker. i would much rather go through the pain and suffering of splitting from someone who isn't devoted to me, than staying by their side. one of those periods of suffering lasts a lot longer than the other, and if i'm with someone who's interested in someone else either sexually or emotionally... well, i guess i feel like i would be wasting my time at that point. it's probably one of the few things i just can't tolerate.

give_me_shinies · 2015-01-09T17:04:31+00:00

It depends.

What's meant by "emotional infidelity". That's never quite made sense to me. Like, he's in love with some other girl? If that's the case, I'm not sure how you could even maintain a relationship with someone whose in love with someone else. Deal-breaker.

If "emotional infidelity" means he got overly friendly with or developed a "crush" on some chick but nothing physical ever materialised, that could be a deal-breaker depending on the severity due to the fact that it could lead to an affair, him "falling out of love" and branch swinging. I still think that'd be easier to get past than sexual infidelity though.

Re sexual infidelity, I think there's a difference between a one off "mistake" and an ongoing love affair. The latter is a deal-breaker, 100%, no way I'd forgive. If its a one off drunken encounter with a stranger and we've been married a while, there may be a marginal chance that I'd get past it but even then dumping seems much more likely.

In general, any kind of infidelity would be a blow to my self-esteem/ego and my love/devotion for my partner and I'm too "proud" (not sure if that's the right word) to put up with it. I've always found something very pitiful and undignified about the long-suffering wife of a philanderer. I'd never allow myself to be a "sucker" like that.

TL;DR: it depends. Falling in love with someone else is worse than fucking a hooker once. Having a fuck buddy is worse than an "emotional affair" with a woman online. In the end, they're probably all deal-breakers.

buartha · 2015-01-09T17:11:29+00:00

as a man or woman, would you be more willing to stick around after one type of infidelity than another? Or are both types of infidelities a deal-breaker for the relationship?

Gay man here, and while both would most likely end my relationship, I'd say emotional infidelity is worse. I might be able to get over a ONS on his part, provided it happened at some time when I wasn't available for whatever reason.

It's the idea of him choosing someone over me, either physically or emotionally, that really upsets me; I invest a lot of time and effort into making him happy, and the idea of him taking effort that he could be putting into our relationship and spending it on someone else feels like a slap in the face.

Many of us are non-hetero, do you think this has an impact on how TRP is viewed or argued against in general?

I'd say it has an impact. Realistically, non-hetero people will likely have different experiences that will change their perspective. It doesn't mean said views should be discounted; most of us have been raised around hetero relationships, most of our friends and family are going to be straight, and many of us have been in straight relationships in the past after all, but there's no point in pretending that we're coming at things from exactly the same place.

give_me_shinies · 2015-01-09T16:54:20+00:00

I think a lot of women would be willing to share an "apex alpha" but I doubt they'd be exclusive to him. Quite a few of Hugh Heffner's women have boyfriends, for example. Soft harems in the TRP sense is basically just casual sex/STRs -- their "plates" and ONSs are likely hooking up with other guys too. An actual harem would be Ottoman sultan style, having a bunch of women who are sexually exclusive to the man. That's gonna be rare in the 21st century West.

hyperrreal · 2015-01-09T16:37:58+00:00

as a man or woman, would you be more willing to stick around after one type of infidelity than another? Or are both types of infidlities a deal-breaker for the relationship?

I recognize that most men don't feel like this, but for me, emotional infidelity would be an absolute dealbreaker, whereas sexual infidelity might not be. There was a time when sexual infidelity would have been emotional devastating, but today it wouldn't be a huge deal.

The problem with caring so much about a woman cheating on you, is that it gives her SO much power over you. Because it's something any woman can do easily. And on top of that, the fact that you fear and forbid it makes it seem that much more appealing to them. The other thing is that I can totally relate to the desire to have sex with people other than my partner.

Now I approach relationships with the following frame: I make it clear that I really don't care if the girl I'm dating sleeps with someone else once or twice, and though I don't set out to cheat, I expect the same license from her if I do. This approach has been far more effective for me.

why do you think hetero women being less upset by sexual infidelity can translate to a soft harem (yes, if the dude is "alpha" enough)?

I think it's 4 things.

Chris Rock has this bit about how all women think they have the most amazing pussy in the world. I think women in "harem" sort of believe that if they just fuck the guy well and often enough, he'll want to commit to them emotionally. This is of course, not true.
It's also the "hamster" at work. Women in a soft harem will pretend that they aren't in the situation they are really in. They delude themselves into thinking they aren't really plates, and a true boyfriend/girlfriend relationship is right around the corner.
Women seemed to get really turned on by the idea and process of competing against other women for man. So I think that soft harem situations are often sexually gratifying for them, even if they don't give much emotional satisfaction.
Also I just realized too, that's its likely fear of emotionally intimacy. Being a "plate" allows women to have this pseudo-relationship, that never evolves to a point where their sense of self is threatened. The most extreme version of this would women who date guys in prison. It's a "relationship" but one in which their ego and defense mechanisms are never challenged. They can't be abandoned or engulfed.

MisterGaribaldi · 2015-01-09T15:56:05+00:00

<--- Man

Both types would be an instant deal breaker for me.

cuittler · 2015-01-09T15:52:25+00:00

As a hetero woman I can say without a doubt that a purely sexual infidelity would NOT break my marriage but the thought of my husband loving someone else makes me homicidal

OfSpock · 2015-01-09T22:28:16+00:00

Not only would I drop him immediately, pretty much everyone I know has enough self respect to do likewise.

Of all the marriages I know where infidelity has been a factor, only two of the people stayed. Admittedly, both were women. In one, they had four children at school and she felt she couldn't cope on her own and she stayed. In the other, she was a super submissive SAHM and believed him when he said it wasn't true, although her friends told her he was seeing someone else. He ended up leaving her for the other woman.

[deleted] · 2015-01-10T02:15:32+00:00

Yeah, being bi definitely makes a lot of TRP theories sound ridiculous to me too.

Idk exactly what qualifies as emotional infidelity but I'd probably be more upset by the sexual cheating.

wombatinaburrow · 2015-01-10T09:08:01+00:00

I wouldn't put up with either. Neither would he. We have too much invested in our relationship succeeding to jeopardize it by playing away though.

[deleted] · 2015-01-09T18:26:35+00:00

I'd be fine with my man fucking other people so long as there is communication beforehand, and the same freedoms are extended to me. Emotional infidelity would crush me far more than anything physical.

drok007 · 2015-01-09T15:58:28+00:00

I don't think they want to be part of an alpha harem, I don't think that is necessarily ideal for them unless the alpha is a king and has a literal harem.

It's more that given the option between having all of a beta/omega and part of an alpha. They will vie for the alpha. As far as competition for him, they want to be his #1 choice.

Personally, emotional infidelity bothers me less than physical. So I guess I'm a statistic.

Edit: Further i would add, someone being more alpha is relative. Inb4 "I love my beta". You weren't out there picking the runt of the litter, I would bet money on that.

masterrod · 2015-01-09T16:32:34+00:00

why do you think hetero women being less upset by sexual infidelity can translate to a soft harem (yes, if the dude is "alpha" enough)?

Because they prioritize their emotions. And they know how flimsy sex is, and how available it is to men. In fact, a lady will likely be ok with cheating if you tell her. She'll be upset, and may not trust you, but she'll likely stick around if her other needs are met. I would even posit that she will be more likely to stick around if you're sleeping with a low value lady, but she may not stick around if she believes the lady is "better" than her. Betrayal, is also very important. If the person you're cheating on her with is family member, or friend, you can forget it. Her most important need to uphold her value in front of her peers, will be shatter forcing her to exit.

give_me_shinies · 2015-01-09T17:26:51+00:00

won't mind "sharing an alpha man" as part of a soft harem because she minds sexuality infidelity less than emotional infidelity

It's not that they won't mind, it's that they are more willing to. It's also saying "More likely to be willing to"...only a sith deals in absolutes. This is also not the only reason for "soft" harems.

"Many of us are non-hetero, do you think this has an impact on how TRP is viewed or argued against in general?"

Abso-fucking lutely it does. It's the difference between japanese comedians satiring their culture and family guy satiring japanese culture. You can talk about the same things and still not "get it"

why do you think hetero women being less upset by sexual infidelity can translate to a soft harem (yes, if the dude is "alpha" enough)?

Because I've seen it. I'm in a poly/open relationship, and my harem is anything but soft. Honestly, women don't really care. Ok, some do, but most don't.

Side note to support the emotional/sexual jealousy gender dichotomy, when we first became open the first time she hooked up with someone else without me there I had a hard time dealing with it and it caused some stress in our relationship. I was worried she was going to leave me, that his dick was bigger (it wasn't) that he was better in bed (he wasn't) all kinds of stupid insecure bullshit.

In contrast, she didn't react at ALL when I slept with random women. She was all for it, just didn't even respond in any way.

However, there was one time there was this girl I thought was special, so after a few dates I took her out to a movie and a nice dinner at red lobster (which I paid for), and then we talked and held hands before making out a bit (no sex that night) and it was really really nice.

When I told my wife, she said it was fine but immediately spent the next 6 hours crying. Over red fucking lobster. (Or, more accurately, over the implied emotional and financial non-monogamy that she now had to share in addition to the purely sexual one that she enjoyed). It made her question our arrangement, it made her insecure, she was scared and sad.

We eventually worked through all that, I'm not a sadist or anything, but jesus christ, she never cared about losing me when I made a girl hotter and younger than her cum, but she lost her fucking mind when I bought a girl other than her lemon-kissed grouper and cheesy biscuits.

Succubista · 2015-01-09T18:08:51+00:00

as a man or woman, would you be more willing to stick around after one type of infidelity than another? Or are both types of infidlities a deal-breaker for the relationship?

I think that sex or an emotional affair would both be deal breakers. Assuming I did want to save the relationship for whatever reason, I think it would be easier for me to recover from an emotional affair. From what I imagine, those start out innocently enough by just talking with someone you think is cute and over time it evolves into being inappropriate. Sex is just such an intimate thing, and it feels more deceitful to me to go out of your way to go somewhere private with someone and fuck them. It feels like a much heavier act than just talking about wanting to have sex, or talking about running away together or whatever else.

I have very open communication in my relationship, so I think I would be more upset that someone would hide something from me than about the affair.

Many of us are non-hetero, do you think this has an impact on how TRP is viewed or argued against in general?

I find this really interesting. I'm not sure what to say except I'm bisexual, and I don't agree with TRP. I think people are too different for the generalizations they make about all women, and I can't stand how they enforce gender roles. I'm really interested to read what other people think about this.

Archwinger · 2015-01-09T18:53:20+00:00

Obviously, any kind of cheating is likely to end any relationship.

Outside of a committed relationship, a girl is more okay sharing a man who has other sexual partners, but less okay with fucking a man who's in love with someone else. The latter makes her a slutbag who's just a vagina to the guy. He could swap her out for anybody.

Outside of a committed relationship, a guy is more okay with a girl who has other male emotional outlets, but less okay if she's sleeping around. If she's fucking other men, he's with a slut and there are respect and attraction issues. She's probably using him for something besides himself if he's not her only fuck-guy.

Inside of a committed relationship, girls are more likely to be okay with purely sexual cheating, and guys with emotional cheating. But most relationships end if there's any kind of cheating.

rackmerackyou · 2015-01-09T20:10:33+00:00

Many of us are non-hetero, do you think this has an impact on how TRP is viewed or argued against in general

I think it does to a certain extent because RPers generally view sexuality in binary (and patently archaic) terms. I think that when one is confronted with their own sexuality and that sexuality is nonbinary, it also forces that person to either break out of the rigid view of sexuality that RPers (and many nonRPers in the world) hold or to deny one's own sexuality.

On the whole, though, I don't think there's anything wrong with the article or the findings. The part where TRP usually fucks things up (imo) is they will say that this is somehow evidence of the nature of women rather than the more obvious answer -- that men and women generally care about different things because of cultural and socio-economic factors.

MissPearl · 2015-01-09T23:36:50+00:00

Sexual cheating is an arbitrary boundry- my jealousy is a mean little core of competitive insecurity that limits itself to ego protection. You are more likely to see me transform into the amazing ice Pearl if I feel I am not the centre of the universe than anything else.

Problematiqu · 2015-01-09T23:23:36+00:00

Cheated on once before. Didn't make a damn bit of difference how much he said "She didn't mean anything to me." I didn't go "Oh, okay. Well if it was just your penis, then."

Made me physically ill. I vomited when I heard. It briefly increased sexual attraction, by playing off of my insecurities, but everything just dissolved.

Granted, it wasn't a great relationship to begin with. He was an asshole. But that was really the boot in my ass to bounce. There was zero amount of begging after that was going to make me stay with that. Everything he did from chewing food to watching Netflix made me want scrape his face off with a cheesegrater and sex was no longer an option. The fear of catching some kind of STD was a small part of it. The biggest part of it was that he was a giant man child with no self control, and I couldn't bring myself to have a shred of respect for him after.

Reginleifer · 2015-01-09T16:11:33+00:00

as a man or woman, would you be more willing to stick around after one type of infidelity than another? Or are both types of infidlities a deal-breaker for the relationship?

No, I realize that most women are pretty much emotional slaves. If she's emotionally unfaithful sexual infidelity risks increae, or you just didn't catch it and are now being fed trickle truths. Both are dealbreakers

why do you think hetero women being less upset by sexual infidelity can translate to a soft harem (yes, if the dude is "alpha" enough)?

Personally I think the ease of turning modern women to be harem material might be exaggerated by TRP for clarity's sake, but I imagine it's like the Bill Gate's question, would you fuck someone for a million dollars?

A dollar?

You're going to get much more female takers for the former.

lisfb · 2015-01-09T18:59:49+00:00

Question for all Pills: as a man or woman, would you be more willing to stick around after one type of infidelity than another? Or are both types of infidlities a deal-breaker for the relationship?

They’re both dealbreakers. Before, I would say it’s an automatic termination of the relationship and we'd go our separate ways. I’ve modified my stance a tiny bit. We may stay together, but only if we agreed to start from bunker level and build a new relationship up from there with specified reassessment checkpoints worked in and an “end date” when we have to decide if we’re going to stay or go – there’s no rewinding to the point where things were good and going from there.

For this to happen though, we’d really need to take stock and reevaluate ourselves, each other, the relationship as it was, factoring how much of ourselves we've invested into each other…see if trying to work things out is worth it.

Question for Blue/Non-RPs: Many of us are non-hetero, do you think this has an impact on how TRP is viewed or argued against in general?

I would think it depends on the people in the relationship.

[deleted] · 2015-01-09T21:09:11+00:00

If you jump in a monogamous relationship too quickly, you're probably insecure and prone to unhealthy amounts jealousy.

Too much jealousy too early will blind you from whether or not you actually like the partner you're with, you're just defending the hell out of yourself the entire time.

Better to go through the hard work of polyamory before you commit to monogamy than to jump into monogamy only to find your relationship is based on jealousy and insecurity.

tyranus89 · 2015-01-09T21:47:37+00:00

•as a man or woman,

It's important to understand that language like this doesn't provide authority to those who respond. Nobody can reply and say "as a man, this doesn't bother me", and have the authority to be speaking on behalf of all men.

Just the same as it'd be wrong to say "all women don't care if men sleep around but come home at the end of the night".

fiat_lux_ · 2015-01-09T23:15:17+00:00

I noticed something about myself when I think back, way back.

I used to be bipolar.

In periods of depression, I'd have cared more about emotional infidelity, as I felt I needed emotional support, as a weak person. I didn't care as much about physical infidelity.

In periods of mania, I'd have cared more about sexual infidelity.

In a state of mania, I feel indestructible. I feel independent and unbeholden/unattached to people. If a woman wants to end a relationship or a friend wants to leave, I'm not terribly sad. In such a state, I wouldn't worry too much about subjective matters such as emotional infidelity. Physical infidelity would be obvious though, so it would warrant immediate response.

I am not that way anymore, and the only thing that puts me close to a state of mania is after a very good physical workout. I'm sure if I was hopped up on tren like some guys, I'd have the same feeling back. I am not depressed these days, so I don't stop caring about physical infidelity.

[deleted] · 2015-01-09T23:32:23+00:00

I'm a woman. Emotional infidelity is an immediate deal breaker. It makes me sick to think of my boyfriend texting sweet things to another girl.

Sexual infidelity is a little less black and white for me. If something happened that was very "in heat of the moment" and only happened once, I'd find it very hard to let go of the relationship. I would not tolerate any additional cheating, though. I may be willing to give him a second chance but I won't be a doormat.

ECoast_Man · 2015-01-09T23:50:50+00:00

I actually will agree I fit this stereotype.

Both would be just cause for relationship termination without notice.

BUT, I would be much more offended by physical sex than a sexless emotional affair (not including sexting of course).

Bakerofpie · 2015-01-10T02:13:58+00:00

Hubs and I both require a lot of attention and affection, both physical and emotional, for our happiness. There is just no possible way one of us could be doling it out to someone else on the side without the other noticing. I think I would actually be more bothered by a sexual affair than an emotional one, but maybe that's because it's absolutely comical to imagine my husband whispering sweet nothings and falling in love with another woman. If things were bad enough that he were capable of such a thing the relationship would have ended before the affair happened. I would probably leave over sexual infidelity.

ThorLives · 2015-01-10T06:02:37+00:00

First, whether a woman accepts a man who has other sexual partners depends on the situation. Throughout history, lots of monarchs had harems of women. Also, as they said in the book, "The Red Queen", some women accept the fact that it's better to be a rich man's third wife (in a polygamous marriage) than to be a poor man's only wife. It might depend significantly on the power and status of the man in question. If he's exceedingly rich and powerful, women might go, "Well, I can't really expect that I could keep him all to myself" and accept the fact. In many cases, kings had a primary wife, and all the other women were secondary in significance. Also, if a guy is honest about sleeping with multiple women, then he isn't exactly cheating, and the women can't blame him for dishonesty. (Case in point: I know a guy who calls himself "polyamourous". He has a girlfriend and two other girls that he sleeps with on a regular basis. They all know about each other. They knew about the situation from the very beginning, so there's no deception going on.)

Second, I've heard that the idea of men having extra-marital affairs is more common in places outside the the US. Inside the US, it's much more taboo. There are well-known politicians in other countries who had mistresses, and it was known to the voting public. Example: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/bookreviews/10583092/Francois-Mitterand-A-womanising-president-who-shaped-Europe.html So, when you ask this question, you're probably getting answers mostly from Americans which are based on existing American cultural norms (and the norms between young and old in the US might vary to some degree).

Petticoat_Rule · 2015-01-10T08:56:55+00:00

According to the survey, men were fairly evenly divided on being most upset over emotional versus physical cheating.

It makes sense women would say they're less upset with physical cheating - because many have been led to believe that if they don't satisfy a man in every way possible, he'll cheat. And it will be their own fault.

Also, obviously, many married women's husbands see prostitutes. Those women who wish to stay married will rationalize that it's okay, even if deep down it bothers them greatly. So they'll report that physical cheating is better than emotional.

Personally, I'd be most upset if my SO had a physical relationship rather than an emotional one. But either would spell the end of the relationship.

LaLaJoy · 2015-01-10T23:16:18+00:00

As a non-RP woman, sexual infidelity would bother me exponentially more than emotional infidelity, because being exclusive and having sex with someone else is deliberate, hypocritical, and selfish.

whystoppnow · 2015-01-12T01:21:28+00:00

Patrice O'Neal explained my view best. I'm going to cheat because I'm a guy. You can cheat too. But if you do understand that you are demoted. You have lost your rank and no longer have a say so.

17b29a · 2015-01-09T17:14:54+00:00

would you be more willing to stick around after one type of infidelity than another? Or are both types of infidlities a deal-breaker for the relationship?

I wouldn't care about either.

Many of us are non-hetero, do you think this has an impact on how TRP is viewed or argued against in general?

no, trp is still asinine

Rhad42 · 2015-01-09T16:44:02+00:00

No, I would not stay around after an infidelity. Any man who does otherwise is an aberration.

One thing we notice across diverse societies is that they severely punish adulterous women. Often, they would brutally kill the adulteresses. For example, as the Book of Numbers and other documents from the Near East detail, proto-Indo-Aryans would sometimes kill adulteresses by inducing ascites: forcing her abdomen to swell, with lethal consequences. Across the world, the Padaung in Thailand (who used coils to elevate a woman's neck), would remove the coils of an adulteress: ostracizing and sometimes even killing her. And of course, we can't go a year without some Middle Eastern adulteress getting stoned to death.

The persistence of severe punishments for adultery across diametrically different cultures leads me to believe that male sexual jealousy is inherent. And that makes perfect sense from an evolutionary perspective: men who didn't care about women's sexuality would not have cared when another man impregnated their wife, which would have weeded out their genes. The men who succeeded evolutionarily would have evolved mate guarding behaviors, and imposed them (and attendant punishments) on their societies.

Male sexual jealously is an inherent and powerful emotion, because a woman cheating may mean the end of his genetic lineage.

Given that TRP tells us to take humans as they are, not as we would wish them to be, I think it makes sense that sexual infidelity on the part of a woman is a serious offense, much more serious than it is for a man (where there's no risk that the woman will mother a child that's not her's).

TalkToHusband · 2015-01-09T20:33:53+00:00

either type would ruin my marriage. I might be able to overcome the anguish of cheating, but I would no longer trust him anymore or see him the same way.

Title	Question for all Pills: Jealousy and Sexuality
Author	cuittler
Upvotes	10
Comments	68
Date	January 9, 2015 3:48 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2rv5m3/question_for_all_pills_jealousy_and_sexuality/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/question-for-all-pills-jealousy-and-sexuality.283846 https://theredarchive.com/post/283846

Comments