Should men get a say in Abortion?

Chrys7 · 2012-01-08T13:37:16+00:00

Just give men the ability to renounce fatherhood. Make it so it's only available while the baby can be aborted or really shortly after he learns about it.

frostek · 2012-01-08T15:47:16+00:00

Can we hurry up and develop the male contraceptive pill please?

2012-01-09T19:38:27+00:00

If a condom broke and I got pregnant and I was told by the man I HAD to have that baby even though I am not mentally/emotionally/financially stable for it, I would be traumatized. You are telling a woman that she must carry this child for 9 months (and it's delievered at the END of the 9th month, so more like 10 months) and go through intense hormonal episodes, check ups, people wanting to touch her and maybe harass her, etc.

Now, I DO believe that if the women wants the child and the man does not, he should have the option to opt out of child support and responsibility. If a man said "if we accidentally get pregnant, I won't support the baby" and they do and she complains, well it's her own damn fault.

I'm sure the idea of a man wanting a child and not getting it would be terrible to him too, but he doesn't have to do anything. He just has to watch the belly grow and be there for her. Sure he has to raise it along with her after the pregnancy, but the pregnancy part can be so overwhelming and sometimes dangerous it would be unethical to force a woman to carry a child. At least without some HUGE compensation or something.

hopeless_case · 2012-01-08T13:24:18+00:00

Nope. What exactly is the goal here? Forcing a woman through 9 months of pregnancy to have a baby she doesn't want? Give her the burden of carrying it just so the father can have it when gestation is over?

Abortion isn't killing a child, it's preventing one. I don't know why anyone would want to make a policy that would create more unwanted children, the issue of the woman's right to her body aside. Yes, there are problems with how a man's right to his children is protected in this society, but the solution is not to cause more of these conflicts.

edit: Let me put it another way. Having an abortion is a morally identical situation to preventing the pregnancy in the first place. What you're suggesting here is that by default, unless both parties agree on whether or not she should have your baby, she has your baby.

edit2: And just to clarify, this isn't coming from a desire to empower and protect women. This is coming from a desire to protect people from being trapped in shitty situations. Men are constantly being hooked into financially supporting children they never intended to have. Mirroring that situation to the other sex only worsens the problem for both sides.

2012-01-08T13:29:09+00:00

No - a person (in this case the prospective mother) should have control over their own body.

IMO a "financial abortion" for men would be the way to make the situation with respect to choice more fair.

Tomket · 2012-01-08T13:54:49+00:00

Here's what I think; If you do get pregnant by "accident" and the female wants too keep the child and male does not it's fine, but don't expect financial aid from the male. Prevention is a shared responsibility. Of course you can say "if the man didn't want a kid, he should have brought/used condoms". Correct, but it takes two to tango, eh? The man not wearing a condom is not a valid argument for financial support. The "our body argument" is as valid as it gets. Forcing someone to have an abortion is like rape. I'm male.

mymmelinen · 2012-01-08T13:47:21+00:00

Ideally, abortion is decision which a couple takes together. Of course, legally this is not enforceable. Legally, we can only consider who gets the final say when the two parents disagree.

You are proposing that if either parent wants to keep the child, the child is kept. I have the following issues with this:

a) When the father's identity is not clear, either because the mother does not know who it is or because the mother has not told the father she is pregnant. I don't believe we could nor should be able to force a woman to disclose the father of the child. Is is sufficient to just have any male come a sign a permission slip? How do you check?

b) Can a person have the right to force another person to go through pregnancy? I don't think this is a reasonable idea. I don't think having sex with a man can bind a woman to grow the man's child for nine months. (Similarly I don't believe having sex with someone should necessarily bind a person to support a child for 18 years.)

Short answer: No, sorry.

2012-01-08T13:52:28+00:00

No, that would be extremely traumatic for the woman. However, men should get the choice to "financially" abort a baby. Meaning that during the same period a mother could abort the baby, the father could denounce all relation to it, but not pay child support or anything similar. This doesn't help the cases where a man wants the baby but the mother doesn't, but it would be extremely unethical/emotionally scarring to force a woman to have a baby.

OhMyMoogle · 2012-01-08T15:29:05+00:00

Ideally, it should be a joint decision of both parents. If the mother wants it and the father doesn't he should be able to financially say that he doesn't want any part of it. If the father wants it and the mother doesn't there isn't really an equivalent that could be offered.

That is a female perspective, but I know my opinions aren't shared by most.

2012-01-08T22:45:19+00:00

No men can't have a say, I don't see how that could be done fairly.

What we should do is make ways to stop women making men fathers without their consent.

iongantas · 2012-01-09T02:53:58+00:00

Power should be congruent with responsibility.

Mittenschop · 2012-01-09T10:07:52+00:00

I would say that men should definitely have a say, and that having an abortion or having a baby instead should be a joint decision.

Often, that just isn't realistic, especially with younger people. One person sees it one way and won't budge, the other sees only the opposite option and similarly won't budge.

Girls most often get the upper hand in this as they can get an abortion without the mans consent if that is what they want to do, or they can carry to term if that is what they want to do, and neither requires consent or obedience from the man. The man has to rely on the girl to follow their decision, or his decision, and they can 'easily' (that word is so subjective in this context) stray over to their own decision at any time within a fairly large time range before abortion becomes illegal.

Unfortunately a lot of girls and women who would like to keep their babies (or more simply just do not want to get an abortion) are manipulated, blackmailed, or strongarmed into having abortions they don't want. In those cases the man has too much say, and while they should not be forced into unwilling fatherhood, I find it heartbreaking that women forced into unwilling abortions aren't written about nearly as often as the former, or even as often as women who get abortions against a mans wishes.

MRMRising · 2012-01-08T22:52:03+00:00

No one should be able to force another into parenthood.

Listen to this;AVoiceforMen Dr. T “Accidental” Pregnancies and Entrapment

arstin · 2012-01-08T16:24:39+00:00

You're clearly anti-choice. And no, the wishes of the father are not an effective challenge to the pillars of the pro-choice movement.

One of the biggest problems with feminism identified by MRAs is that any activist can throw their extreme, radical, or crackpot pro-woman ideas out under the umbrella and political clout of feminism. Most of us have had that painful discussion with a moderate feminist over a radical feminist idea - where they might hate the idea but feel obliged to defend it from the attack of a man.

When it comes to father's rights - MRA is guilty of this. Men are at a terrible, unjust disadvantage in separation, custody, and support battles. What public outrage and awareness is building on these issues is being squandered by men using it as a platform to end women's reproductive rights or absolve themselves of any financial responsibilities from failing to use birth control.

TomBayes · 2012-01-08T15:44:37+00:00

I am still not sure what I think is the best choice here. I agree it is both parties' job to make sure adequate measures have been taken to prevent unwanted pregnancy, like using a condom. Suppose those measure were taken, and then it broke? This does happen with enough frequency that it is scary. I do think it's in appropriate to force a woman into a medical procedure like abortion if she doesn't want to. But even if men did have the legal right to forfeit financial obligation to the child, I don't think I could ever do it. After all, even if that child were unwanted, he'd still be my son. I think it would be a horrible thing for him to grow up knowing his real dad abandoned him. I'm just not sure there is a good solution to this problem.

2012-01-08T17:11:31+00:00

The opportunity to have input should exist at a minimum. For instance filing a formal protest which is kept on hand in case of future legal difficulties.

At most there should be an opportunity to offer the woman a compensation package. Wherein, a man may offer the woman full compensation (with government help as appropriate) for the pregnancy and the woman is absolved of all parental responsibilities (and any right the the child, irrevocable for life). Under certain circumstances a man should be given the opportunity to disown the unborn child.

NickRausch · 2012-01-09T01:56:26+00:00

I am a supporter of the "financial abortion". I would like to see equal say, and due to biology this seems like the closest we are going to get.

Perhaps if he could ask that the embryo be harvested and put on ice for him... but I don't see this as a very practical answer.

SpinozaFan · 2012-01-09T05:37:43+00:00

I've always been pro-choice when it comes to abortion, but it sickens me that men get absolutely no say whatsoever as to whether she can kill the child or not!

Interesting. Very few people who identify as "pro-choice" use language such as "kill the child."

Dwdrummerman · 2012-01-08T17:19:42+00:00

When I was younger, I had a hedonistic approach to sex and rarely thought of any consequences. As I've gotten older and gone through relationships I have a more rational approach and discuss the issue with the woman at depth to find if she's even someone I'd want to continue to have sex with.

Don't put your dick in crazy.

solinv · 2012-01-08T16:11:38+00:00

No. Absolutely not. However, a man should get a say in being a father (within reasonable bounds). He should be able to 'financially abort' with the same restrictions as a traditional abortion.

Lawtonfogle · 2012-01-08T19:34:44+00:00

Financial abortions.

The big catch here is that if a woman has a child and the father is actively supporting the child, he cannot later change his mind. Financial abortions are only allowed during the period when a pregnancy can be aborted. If a man is unaware of the pregnancy at that time, then, when he is notified of the child (fetus or already born) he is given a small amount of time to declare a financial abortion. After that window has closed, what ever choice he made is permanent.

Theophagist · 2012-01-09T02:14:37+00:00

that kid is just as much mine as it is yours and I want to keep it.

It's not a kid. It is a cluster of cells and is completely incapable of thought.

Should men get a say in Abortion?

I'm going to say no. But they shouldn't have to pay if they don't want the baby. Not getting pregnant is her responsibility too. When it comes down to it, all you did was provide sperm.. Anyone can provide sperm and they don't even need to screw to do it. She in the meantime would be enduring a painful and potentially life-threatening condition. She deserves the final word.

I also think that abortion should not be done without a valid reason.

Had to toss that one in there didn't you? Everyone has their axe to grind and they just can't shut the fuck up about it. Well here's my axe, bud. People like you make me sick. Who decides what a good reason is, you?

dannyigl · 2012-01-09T05:02:21+00:00

What if the woman wants the baby all to herself and does not want to include a willing father. If I apply the logic I see bieng used, I would say all children belong to mothers as they made all the choices and went through all the work. How would a father establish parenthood if the mother does not allow him?

InvaderDJ · 2012-01-09T08:50:08+00:00

Unless men start being able to carry a child to term and birth them, no. The argument for abortion is that no one has the right to control someone else's body but them. There are biological differences between men and women, it isn't ever going to be "equal" in that regard. Do you want me to menstrate too? Wouldn't that make it "fair"?

As far financial abortion is concerned it sounds good at first blush, but it is just spiteful and ends up hurting the baby in the long run. You aren't (just) denying money to someone you don't want to be with, you'e denying money to a living child that you helped create. You don't want to have a kid, have a vasectomy or wear a condom. Don't want surgery or don't want to have the possibility of failure of a vasectomy? Become a scientist and make a birth control pill for men.

JennaMKChicago · 2012-01-08T16:04:14+00:00

I have a hunch the number of pregnancies ending in abortion with the father screaming, "I want this child! Please let me contribute financially and emotionally as much as I can!" and the mother saying "nope sorry, I'm getting an abortion anyway" are in the acute minority.

TracyMorganFreeman · 2012-01-09T11:56:58+00:00

I sometimes wonder what this dynamic will be like if we ever create artificial amniotic tanks in which babies can gestate. The burden of childbirth could be greatly reduced for women, and the rights of the father and heck even the fetus could be redefined entirely.

hopeless_case · 2012-01-08T18:33:09+00:00

I think a woman should have to get the fathers consent to abort absent unusual meducal complications (a threat to her well being). For example, if she were risking paralysis by carrying the baby to term.

While it is her body, it is his potential child and the loss of a fetus can be devestating to both mother and father. So I consider it an implicit promise a woman makes to a man when she consents to sex that she will make a good faith effort to bring any oregnancy to term that might result to term unless they both agree on an abortion.

Forcing people to keep their promises to each other is a crucial ingrediant of a healthy, just, and functioning society.

Supermoves · 2012-01-08T13:16:11+00:00

[permanently deleted]

aetheralloy · 2012-01-08T14:56:41+00:00

Anything not "women should have all the say and the power" will just get you tagged as sexist, lazy, or a pig.

Just try to find an exception. I dare you.

This is where all the claims of "feminism is about equality" get trampled under the cold hard feet of reality.

JamesKBoyd · 2012-01-08T15:21:34+00:00

I just think that there should be mandatory abortion.

Title	Should men get a say in Abortion?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	16
Comments	207
Date	January 8, 2012 1:05 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/o7x50/should_men_get_a_say_in_abortion/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/should-men-get-a-say-in-abortion.1029484 https://theredarchive.com/post/1029484

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