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Republicans are coming out against any proposal to require women to register for the military draft.

JannTosh12

June 16, 2022
352 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.politico.com/minutes/congress/06-15-2022/on-women-in-the-draft/
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Post Information
Title Republicans are coming out against any proposal to require women to register for the military draft.
Author

JannTosh12

Upvotes 352
Comments 190
Date June 16, 2022 2:31 PM UTC
(4 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/vdncba/republicans_are_coming_out_against_any_proposal/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/republicans-are-coming-out-against-any-proposal-to.1119775
https://theredarchive.com/post/1119775
Top posts by JannTosh12

“Don’t draft our daughters” but sons are ok?

911 upvotes
October 19, 2021
/r/MensRights

Law schools are majority-female, so where are all the female lawyers?

884 upvotes
December 1, 2022
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Anyone noticed those anti draft activists who Kept saying “don’t make women register, just abolish the draft!” Vanished after the proposal to include women was dropped?

712 upvotes
February 27, 2022
/r/MensRights

Lawmakers drop proposal to add women to the draft

595 upvotes
December 6, 2021
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Denmark calls for mandatory military service for women

563 upvotes
January 30, 2023
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Defence Minister of Singapore thinks it's unfair that women should be enlisted into National Service like men because "Women will be delayed in their entry into the workforce".

527 upvotes
June 12, 2022
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Now that females being included in a draft is off the table again expect the “anti draft” activists to vanish without a trace

488 upvotes
December 3, 2022
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“ House Votes To Make Your Daughters Eligible for the Military Draft” oh but when it was sons it was OK?

391 upvotes
October 4, 2021
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Comments

[–]JannTosh12[S] 79 points80 points81 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Time for the NCFM and ACLU to be loud and vocal about either including women or eliminating the draft. The former I think would happen first

[–]ABCAJB 14 points15 points16 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I 100% agree with you and your comment.We need to raise as much awareness about this inequality in the law.The NCFM and the ACLU should absolutely start a lawsuit if they can as well as use their platforms to be as vocal as can be on social media to send the message that discriminatory laws cannot stay that way and that there needs to be changes as soon as possible to this law.For anyone reading this i have a petition that calls on congress and the senate to either abolish or expand selective service to everyone since the current system is unconstitutional in the law violating the 14th amendment of the constitution and the equal protections clause and i ask anyone reading this to consider signing my petition to show that a lot of people want changes to this law.

Here is the link to the petition: https://chng.it/mtgBd6yn

[–]Coomergen 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Don’t count on the ACLU doing it after this whole thing with Amber Heard

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They said they will go after the SS again if Congress doesnt fix it.

[–]McFeely_Smackup 25 points26 points27 points 4 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

Selective Service "registration" is and always has been a political sham. it's not like you can't be drafted if you don't sign the card, or that they don't know you exist without it...they mailed you the card in the first place.

selective service registration exists to remind people that the draft is a thing that can happen, and to establish punishments for not "agreeing" to it.

Exempting women from registration is and always has been a social construct, not a military one. For ever combat troop there are upwards of 10 non combat support personnel, which could be filled by female conscripts and never place them anywhere near combat. the "women can't serve in combat, so we can't draft them" is the "wink, wink" bullshit excuse they trot out rather than just say "we don't want to draft women"

[–]ChaDefinitelyFeel 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Most reasonable comment on this post

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

But women CAN serve in combat.

[–]McFeely_Smackup 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

they can now, but that was the historical reason excuse given for why women weren't registered for the draft.

the ironic thing is now that women CAN serve in combat, and the old excuse invalidated, they just fell back on "well, we're still not doing that"

[–]Baistrocco1 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Which is why women should have to register as well...

[–]63daddy 103 points104 points105 points 4 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

Just because the left strongly supports feminism and has pushed anti-male policies doesn’t mean republicans support equal rights for men, overall they don’t as this example shows.

VAWA, women owned business advantages, WEEA, etc. and other discriminatory policies may have been pushed by the left but they never would have passed without support from the right.

This is a huge problem facing equal rights for men: they have no political support. Both parties know they have to win women’s votes by supporting policies that advantage females.

[–]OldEgalitarianMRA 12 points13 points14 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And conversely, we need both the left and the right to help pass bills that support our issues. That's why men's right's shouldn't embrace the left or right as each is problematic.

[–]tiger_woods_is_goat 27 points28 points29 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah the left has become so insane that it's easy to forget that most Republicans are barely any better.

[–]ThorpeRave 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's like choosing between the pan or the fire.

[–]Baistrocco1 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Both parties know they have to win women’s votes by supporting policies that advantage females.

That's because they take men's votes for granted. Make sure they realized they are not... the current Ukraine shitshow is an excellent occasion to unveil this hypocrisy.

[–]Intelligent-Term 49 points50 points51 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

This sucks. I’m in support of ending draft registration period. Doesn’t seem like mainstream Republicans or Democrats can muster the political will to support that.

[–]disayle32 19 points20 points21 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a pipe dream to expect the government will ever give up its power to send its citizens off to war when it deems it "necessary". If one day the powers that be had to choose between equalizing the draft or abolishing it, they would choose the former.

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Intelligent-Term 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And also we (the United States) have the most powerful volunteer military in the world. We simply don’t need the draft anymore. And if we ever did due to an actual large invasion of our country I’m sure we’d get tons of volunteers anyway.

[–]justaguy891 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm a anti war as it gets but forced conscription is not equal to fascism. Not that one needs to be anti war to recognize this reality, but, many many, many, non fascist countries have had forced conscription. Many of the nations that where fighting the nazis had forced conscription, including the communist ussr (hitlers primary opponent, he hated commies more than jews, and killed 5x as many communists than jews, 20 million vs 5-6), and the "democratic" USA. My grandfather was drafted and proceeded to kick some nazi ass.

[–]Banane9 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

And you think that's because he hated them more, and not just because there was way more?

[–]justaguy891 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes, if you read mein kampf, he primarily hated communists. Communism is fascisms ideological enemy. Jews wherent, they where viewed more as a nuisance. Communism is what had the ability to counter fascism, not a religious group of people who had no military or nation. Hitler hated communists cause they where communists, hitler hated jews because he thought all jews were communists. How's that famous poem go again? " FIRST they came for the COMMUNISTS, and no one said anything, THEN the jews and no one saos anything, then the gypsies, and no one said anything ect ect until they came for me and no one was left to speak for me

[–]ectbot 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Hello! You have made the mistake of writing "ect" instead of "etc."

"Ect" is a common misspelling of "etc," an abbreviated form of the Latin phrase "et cetera." Other abbreviated forms are etc., &c., &c, and et cet. The Latin translates as "et" to "and" + "cetera" to "the rest;" a literal translation to "and the rest" is the easiest way to remember how to use the phrase.

Check out the wikipedia entry if you want to learn more.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Comments with a score less than zero will be automatically removed. If I commented on your post and you don't like it, reply with "!delete" and I will remove the post, regardless of score. Message me for bug reports.

[–]justaguy891 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Oops thank you o glorious grammar bot

[–]findMyNudesSomewhere -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Glorious Grammer, dare I say, Nazi? XD

[–]mindset_grindset 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm in the middle.

the fact is the cold war never ended and without traditional warefare, nuclear holocaust escalations are that much more likely. we could have abolished drafts pre 1940 but not after imo, it's too late.

if we were a small nation like Ireland with strong neighboring protectors I'd say it's possible to abolish a draft.

but America is still the world power despite what people say. we have a lot of enemies and not the nearest strongest support geographically. chinks in our armor like an abolished draft are what get those in power to feel demonstrates our decline. our economy is no longer the strongest, the military is how we are holding on to the title.

so the corporate interests that actually run this country and profit from war will never allow an actual abolished draft, selective service is the best we're going to get which is intentionally for the purpose of being able to reverse and draft at any moment.

if women really wanted equality they'd be proud to voluntarily join the selective service. the fact that they've always resisted is the primary thing that proves to me that feminism has always been about more privileges not actual equality.

[–]Permagasm45 points 4 years ago [recovered] (31 children) | Copy Link

No one should have to register for the draft.

[–]IRefuseToBeAshamed 20 points21 points22 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Our military is larger now than when there was a draft It's not needed. Abolish it.

[–]Fox784 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. I refuse to fight for the military because some general drafts me while sitting behind his desk believing his life is more valuable than mine.

[–]McFeely_Smackup 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Generals don't draft people

[–]Fox784 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Ok semantics. There's some paper pusher sitting behind a desk who makes the decision for me to go to war under threat of imprisonment.

[–]ChadWolf98 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

threat of imprisonment

A better option than war. Vietnam war draft refusers got, what 4-5 years then they got released. While many soldiers are rotting in Vietnamese soil.

[–]Fox784 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why are those the only options. Go to your death or go to prison.

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Fox784 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sentiment still stands. Someone is valuing my life less than theirs.

[–]neolib-cowboy -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well it doesnt really matter bc we wont have a draft so this is a none issue. I would only care if it was during Vietnam and I was being drafted.

[–]Futuredanish[🍰] 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

The draft exists for doomsday scenarios and that's why women should have to register too... if it's doomsday it's all hands on deck.

[–]TAPriceCTR 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

No, it really isn't. Women will go into hiding.

"A caveman's weapon to defend his home is a spear. A cavewoman's weapon to defend her home is a cave man.

[–]mindset_grindset 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

if that's really what they'd do how can cave women ever claim to be equal to cave men?

[–]TAPriceCTR 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

How do women who extract child support from a man who never agreed to raise children together claim to be equal? It's an empty claim.

[–]mindset_grindset 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

no idea

if both are equal and perfectly capable of working themselves it's pretty crazy that any of their money is shared after they breakup.

they're adults right? or is one of them a child that can't be trusted to take care of themselves? a lesser ? needing to be coddled?

[–]Ferbuggity 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Cave women were pretty badass, though.

https://theconversation.com/did-prehistoric-women-hunt-new-research-suggests-so-149477

[–]TAPriceCTR 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Modern humans are physically pathetic compared to prehistoric ones... because weak prehistoric humans died.

[–]LagerHead 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Vietnam was a million miles from a doomsday scenario and they were only too happy to use it.

[–]Futuredanish[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That was before the US military went fully professional. The draft is a different thing now.

[–]LagerHead 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

For the time being. It should never have existed in the first place.

[–]Fearless-File-3625 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Just because no one "should" doesn't mean no one "would". Draft is not getting abolished anytime soon, so we need to draft women.

[–]TAPriceCTR 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If we couldn't discriminate based on sex, you can bet the draft would end pretty quick

[+]Tai9ch -13 points-12 points-11 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Draft is not getting abolished anytime soon, so we need to draft women.

The response to something bad happening should never be to make it happen to more people. That's the sort of nonsense you get from "privilege" narratives, and frankly the results are straight up evil.

The one single exception is to push for something like the universal extension of the draft as a ploy to try to get more support a universal repeal, but even then the risk of a bad outcome is significant enough to make the morality of that tactic questionable.

[–]TAPriceCTR 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

No one has suggested we draft more, only that we draft equally. Instead of drafting 100 men, draft 50 men and 50 women.

[–]Tai9ch -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Currently 50% of the adult the population has to sign up to be added to the list. Plenty of people have suggested increasing that to 100%, which would be worse.

[–]TAPriceCTR 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Ok, how about only people wanting to vote, get government jobs, or receive federal aid must sign up for the draft? That's LESS punishment for not signing up than men currently face.

I'd say being drafted is FAR WORSE than signing up for the draft... if initiating a draft meant drafting women... they would do EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to avoid using it (and you know it) , so by signing everyone up for the draft we add massive social pressure to prevent implementation. Hence, NOT WORSE.

[–]Tai9ch 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No. The draft is bad. Making more people suffer makes it worse.

That's like suggesting that because some people pay unjust child support it would be more fair if everyone had to pay unjust child support. Or that because cops shoot some people's dogs they should instead shoot everyone's dog.

Registration for the draft is unjust. It needs to be abolished. Full stop.

[–]TAPriceCTR 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

As women get subjected to alimony more, alimony is being phased out. If you want injustice to end, make the injustice happen to women as much as men. Then people will cease to tolerate it.

That said, I don't agree that the possibility of a draft is bad, only when the draft is abused for an unjust war. Hence signing up for it is only unjust in 2 situations, 1: it violates equality, 2 it is used for an offensive war.

[–]neolib-cowboy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Wrong. Every citizen who votes should register for the draft

[–]mindset_grindset 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

louder for the people in the back

even more importantly:

YOU SHOULDN'T BE ELIGIBLE FOR COMMANDER IN CHIEF OF THE MILITARY IF YOU'RE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR THE MILITARY DRAFT

if you won't die to protect your country, why in the FUCK should we trust your leadership ? our country has never been perfect but there was a time when draft dodging presidents (like trump) would never get elected for exactly that reason.

so why the fuck should we be led by a woman who wants to boss the military around and send men to their death when she would never take those orders from herself ?

[–]neolib-cowboy -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

True but women can serve in the military now

[–]mindset_grindset 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

wym ?

[–]TheSnesLord 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Just goes to show you the Right and Conservatives are gynocentric misandrists in their own different ways.

It's the same s**t in entertainment media such as video games as well, for example both the Left (SJWs and Feminists) and the Right are in favour of removing anything that men like, such as censoring and preventing attractive female characters from being made. The Left are using the excuses of "sexism" and "objectification"; and the Right are using excuses like "degeneracy" and "think of the chilluns".

[–]Ferbuggity 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

They don't complain about all the hypermasculine buff male charcters though. Which are every bit as sexist but not female so they don't matter.

[–]TheSnesLord 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Well of course they won't complain about the hyper-masculine stuff, it's something they like and for the feminists and women they flick themselves silly over that stuff. They whine and complain about female characters/actresses being "objectified" and "sexualized" in movies but at the same time ogle at Chris Hemsworth shirtless in movies.

Double standards is one of the hallmarks of SJWs and Feminists.

[–]Ferbuggity 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm neither of those things, and think he's pretty hot.

[–]uzy111 39 points40 points41 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Feminism and conservatism are two sides of the same coin. The misandry coin.

[–]ThorpeRave 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

And religion, don't forget Religions like Christianity

Basic principal is 'men go out and work hard, woman stay home and sleep all the time'. And why should they do this? Cause society said so. If you don't get married (and get screwed by the system to the point of wanting to off yourself after the divorce), YOU ARE NOT A REAL MAN!!! Your life is not complete and all that Bullshit.

It's hilarious when TRP tries to connect conservatism with whats best for men.

[–]mindset_grindset 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

interesting. I've never heard this notion

what other evidence do you feel that conservatism/ religions are misandry ?

[–]ThorpeRave 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

When i am critiquing Conservatism, i am critiquing politics as a whole. In no way am i saying Liberalism is any better, it's worse for sure and conservatism (as well as religion) is the better approach, in theory. But in the same sense, communism should have a greater appeal.

But conservatism (or religion) is not the flawless, pure, unquestionable answer to the plague that is anti-male movement that many, especially in the TRP, would lead you to believe. And there are aspects of Liberalism one would be a fool to ignore or suppress in order to empower conservatism.

In short, Conservatism and Religion is a method that enforces the law of average and its about collecting people into a group and enforce a certain mindset (yes, it's the same with Liberalism and i suppose, atheism). But in my opinion and feel free to debate this, what's best for you is most often, not what's best for community at large and vice versa. And being in the community mindset often means suppressing your own individual opinions. Which is ironic, because many conservative TRP members, which is all TRP members, say you should question and not follow blindly what the government tells you to do...in the same breath they preach how amazing conservatism is and how amazing their figureheads are and push the notion within their community to follow conservatism blindly.

Other than that, my second biggest problem with conservatism and religion, is they brought about feminism and gave power to liberalism. Their ideologies, a lot of which were oppressive according to the liberals, is what swung the pendulum in the other direction and then the conservatives act like they are clueless as to how it all happened. Worse, they want to hold onto dear life onto something that brought about all this progression and liberal movement, willfully ignoring the fact they are trying to repeat history.

What was the definition of insanity again?

[–]coolboy_24278 30 points31 points32 points 4 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

any conservative and republican MRAs here need to wake up

[–]ABBucsfan 27 points28 points29 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I personally identify less and less with either wing (although I'm more traditional which is often associated with right wing), but giving women privileges doesn't generally have a political leaning. Traditionalists and woke types both do it

[–]Jarrah965 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Just call yourself an independent my dude, feels better that way.

[–]ABBucsfan 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I guess that's what you could call me lol

[–]JohnKimble111 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s not intrinsically wrong to only support drafting men. However, if you do do then you need to grant them some from if privileges over women in other areas to compensate- e.g. free higher education.

[–]VindictivePrune 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Libertarian is the way to go for MRAs imo

[–]White_Immigrant 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

The labour movement has had to fight against capitalists for hundreds of years so that men get to have things like weekends, 8 hour work days, breaks, paid time off, at least a modicum of work health and safety, and yet you'd like to give it all up and hand control of our lives over to the wealthy elite? Genius solution.

[–]VindictivePrune 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Not at all, id have every man's and woman's destiny left to their own choices, and not have them be forced to be slaves to governments or corporations. Companies with shit work conditions run by men like Carnegie and Rockefeller were kept in power and allowed to exist because of their backing from the government.

I would see a dismantling of megacorps and monopolies and the government systems that enable them to exist. Installation of government enforced work programs and guidelines and such only increase the grasp megacorps have on the workforce and increase the barriers to entry and completion for local businesses

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

When you leave people to their own choices, some will create monopolies and megacorps. Dismantling successful companies goes against libertarianism.

[–]VindictivePrune -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Not if those companies are against the general public welfare. Monopolies and megacrops are a net negative on society and so should be dismantled because they hurt people more than they help, and stifle freedom of trade

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

"should be dismantled" contradicts " every man's and woman's destiny left to their own choices"

[–]Ferbuggity 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Coca Cola is dismantled. Libertarians everywhere are deprived of caffeine. The spiralling is real.

[–]VindictivePrune 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No it does not if you'd actually think about it

[–]jayval90 -5 points-4 points-3 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Nahh, you guys with your panties all up in a wad because you want to end the draft or draft women are completely missing the point. Men get the draft, therefore we should also get male privilege.

Why are you guys out here fighting for "equality" with females? They are different from us. We should get different treatment. It's about making a bargain, not some kind of technical notion of #Equality.

[–]ThorpeRave 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

we should also get male privilege.

You're just like the feminists, only the male version. Both of you are oblivious to how discriminatory you both are.

They are different from us.

It's because of this mindset the feminist movement even began, you can literally draw a line in the sand anywhere and claim the other side is different from you and as such you deserve preferential treatment. From race to gender, you're still stuck in the 1800's.

[–]TAPriceCTR 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No, he's different because he expects men to buy their privilege, feminists expect women to be given their privilege for free.

[–]ThorpeRave 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Entertaining this for a second, do you mean men should have privilege AFTER they have been drafted? Or on the basis they CAN be drafted?

I'll let someone else tackle the former, but the latter is the same as women expecting privilege on the basis they are women. Sure, it's better for the women, because men are still being drafted, but it's still entitlement and ultimately, its better to abolish both.

[–]jayval90 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Shot:

You're just like the feminists, only the male version. Both of you are oblivious to how discriminatory you both are.

Chaser:

It's because of this mindset the feminist movement even began... From race to gender, you're still stuck in the 1800's.

Sooo.... Feminists kept us in the 1800s? Also I'm racist because I said men and women are different... peak 2022.

[–]ThorpeRave 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I didn't call you a racist, but you're discriminating towards women. I didn't disagree with your assertion that men and women are different, I disagreed with your assertion that privilege should be handed out on the basis of being different. Your inability to think logically shows you have a lot in common with the females than you'd like to think.

[–]jayval90 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I disagreed with your assertion that privilege should be handed out on the basis of being different.

That's actually not what I said, if you would have read the context rather than jumping straight to the sound bite. I said that privilege should be handed out on the basis of men being in the draft.

Your inability to think logically shows you have a lot in common with the females than you'd like to think.

Umm... for someone accusing me of being racist and a sexist, this is a pretty rich thing to say.

[–]ThorpeRave 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Umm... for someone accusing me of being racist and a sexist, this is a pretty rich thing to say.

​

That's actually not what I said, if you would have read the context rather than jumping straight to the sound bite.

You want privilege for being born a man? You starting to sound like a woman.

[–]jayval90 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I want privilege for having to register for selective service, and be used as cannon fodder should an invasion ever come (like happened in Ukraine).

[–]Abigale_Munroe 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

There is no party that is pro men's rights. We are not alone, but we are unrepresented.

Philip Davies is one heroic MRA politician in the UK.

[–]DouglasMilnes 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Since you mention the UK, it is only right to mention the only pro-male party in the English-speaking world, the Children & Family Party, run by Mike Buchanan.

[–]dukesaces 19 points20 points21 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The right mollycoddles women and gives them trad rights while not requiring them to be trad (not legally anyhow). The left gives them additional rights and encourages them to do whatever the hell they want (as long as it doesn't involve living trad lives). Both sides are pro women and anti men. Don't fool yourself into believing otherwise. Republicans are like pastor's at a church that will tell you to wife up the god fearing single mother with a slutty past that's now a born again virgin.

What we need is a politicial party that caters to men. As things stand rn, both sides hate men.

[–]gre2704 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Gynocentrism is everywhere. I'm not at all surprised.

[–]Apprehensive-Hat-494 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Make women register. If we end up fighting a cyberwar with China, I’d say that women and men at MIT and Caltech will be important assets. And if it’s a combat war then set the necessary physical standards and anyone who meets them can go fight.

Why is this so hard? Wars are incredibly high-tech and strategic, and women can be skilled in those areas. And for the female saviors, they won’t even have to go to whichever middle eastern country we’re fighting to contribute to the effort.

[–]tragedyfish 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Good. This law should be made equal the other way. By abolishing the draft and removing selective service requirements for men.

[–]DouglasMilnes 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But that won't happen either.

[–]CLxJames 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Fuck that. They want equality and inclusivity? Then they should have to be drafted as well

[–]crippledhermit 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm far past fed up with being treated as the disposable gender.

[–]smollpp- 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, everyone is. They're all gynocentrists.

[–]anoncitizen4 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Do trans men have to register?

[–]Coomergen 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I’ve heard that some have been made to register if they changed their official documented sex prior to turning 18

[–]DeadSkullMonkey 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What does equality mean then?

[–]DouglasMilnes 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's the biggest question!

I think most men could tolerate the male-only draft SO LONG AS THEY WERE COMPENSATED. But when men are blamed for working harder in the name of equality, and other petty 'equality' measures exist, it's only reasonable for men to demand equality in all things.

Selective equality is not equality.

[–]papabherd 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If feminism is Charybdis, traditionalism is Scylla. I hope this shows people that Republicans and conservatives do not have our best interests at heart and never have.

[–]MGTOW_and_Bitcoin 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

SIMPs.... TradCons just want men back on the farm

[–]justaguy891 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Everyone man and woman, should be required to do some sort of national service for a few years, whether that be military, or like a civilian conservation Corp. It would bring our country together, give us something that unites us because there's barely anything that does right now. It would make everyone care a lot more about our country and not be so cynical. It would be more egalitarian. Imagine a rich ass mofo having to do the same work you do. This is what it was like in wwii and shortly after. Many celebrities and rich ppl fought in the war and had to serve.

The people who are saying it's good not to have a draft don't understand the "backdoor draft". There absolutely is still a draft. Of poor people. It's one of the few semi guaranteed options (if you don't die) one has out of poverty.

[–]Starmind0 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Literally a bunch of inhuman and misandristic cunts who defend gynocentrism.

[–]-_Plastic_- -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Hey man, if you disagree with something or someone, can you at least be civil about it? Be friendly? What do you gain from being so aggressive? Why must you use such bad language just because you disagree? You know everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and you gotta learn to accept that and not try to change their opinion through the use of insults and profanity.

[–]Starmind0 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Ah yes, "don't be mad at forcing men to die and people in higher positions treating women as superiors and more valuable than men, discuss normally like it has no negative effect!". No honey, it's not a fucking opinion, it's hate. And the fact that you decide to call it an opinion, and talking to me about my "anger" instead of getting angry yourself at this utter inhumanity against men, makes it clear what your intentions are. No, I will absolutely never be fucking nice to misandrists who don't care about men's well being. The men's rights movement is not a political movement. It's not an opinion. It's standing against the crystal-clear discrimination. I didn't hear you say what you said to me to feminists or about slavery.

[–]-_Plastic_- 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Would you mind if I ask what your opinion on women is? Like, what you think of the entire gender as a whole? I'm not trying to change the subject, am just genuinely curious. Female gender as a whole, not feminism specifically.

[–]Starmind0 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Literally just gender. Genitals. There's no opinion to have on half the population. They're no different from men. Did you expect me to hate women or something? Just because I care about men?

[–]-_Plastic_- 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

No man, I never meant to imply anything. Because you feel so strongly about this, I just wanted to see your response if I asked you something. I never implied anything, my bad.

[–]Starmind0 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Well there you go, my "opinion on women". There are things that are factual and not based on opinions, such as the fact that men are humans and should be treated as such.

[–]-_Plastic_- 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Never once said nor implied any denial to that, if I did then it'd be much more clear.

[–]disayle32 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Tradcons gonna tradcon.

[–]doomsday1021 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Who is this guy? Has he ever served in the military? I’m pretty sure most people would be drafted if that ever came to play… we haven’t had a draft in over 50 years… the likelihood of it happening again is basically impossible

[–]Coomergen 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Josh Hawley. He’s a real piece of shit. Yes, his personality is just as punchable as his face.

[–]doomsday1021 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He doesn’t seem to be as bad as many others I’ve seen but still I don’t know the full story and what recent news mentions he doesn’t really have his ideals in the wrong place.

I remember women complaining and demanding to not be part of the draft in Virginia and they got slapped in the face with reality because it just gave the state more incentive to push for women to be part of the draft as well…

[–]B1G_Fan 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Tradcucks gonna tradcuck

[–]CriticalConvo -5 points-4 points-3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This is weird because this is the side of the political spectrum which is supposed to support gender equality

[–]White_Immigrant 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In the UK the far right have been pushing feminism for 12 years. Feminism is definitely a right wing ideal.

[–]JannTosh12[S] -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you are on twitter, please be active in getting the attention of the NCFM and helping the NCFM not be drowned out by traditionalists though interacting with these accounts and helping them with their efforts in getting rid of male only conscription: https://twitter.com/mensadvocate https://twitter.com/NCFM_Women https://twitter.com/NCFMCarolinas

[–]RGamer2022 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Ukraine accepted such a law half a year ago, a true equality country!

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not really, they only draft men.

[–]ThorpeRave 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Until they let all the women run away and forced men to stay behind and fight.

[–]RGamer2022 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Fact remains a fact. Women in Ukraine are forced to register for millitary draft. And have been for more than half a year.

[–]ThorpeRave 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That means nothing if its abolished as soon as a war starts, just goes to show its a PR move. Go jerk off Ukraine somewhere else.

[–]OnePieceFanBoi1 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is what makes me ashamed to be leaning right is stuff like this

[–]xxxxxXgenericnameXx -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Im strongly against women in the draft

Only logical reasons tho

When they tested teams of all male all female and 50/50 they realised that the female teams were worse in every sicuacion

Note: the female soldiers were problaby stronger than the average male but in comparison they could not compete with militery men.

[–]miroku000 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That is not a reason to oppose women in the draft. Only 10 percent of the military is even in combat roles.

https://www.thesoldiersproject.org/what-percentage-of-the-military-sees-combat/#:~:text=Unlike%20what%20the%20military%20gives,military%20branch%20you%20are%20in.

[–]xxxxxXgenericnameXx 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Damn thats true my bad

[+]ZenofZer0 -11 points-10 points-9 points 4 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

Don’t start with this. Women were not able to hold to (previously) the standard as it was known. It is now segregated into male and female qualifications and as a combat arms veteran I don’t want a diversity hire to watch my back. Pick a different battle for the backlash of “equality of sex.” The military is not the place for people’s political affiliations. Take it a step further and get them out of combat arms, period.

[–]McFeely_Smackup 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

As a veteran, you should be well aware that the vast majority of troops are non-combat support positions, which in times of conflict could be filled by drafted women without ever subjecting a single one to front line combat.

that has been the case since the first draft was authorized, the "women can't serve in combat" was never a valid reason to exclude them from draft.

[–]ZenofZer0 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That’s probably the most comprehensive counter argument. My ONLY apprehension is how the draft works. It’s not like they get to pick their MOS at that point. HRC just uses numbers and will send number sets here or there and I think it could make for a major SNAFU that then has people (more than we’ve seen in previous drafts) choking the system out and evading now based on additional qualifications or lack thereof. Is there a way around that? Most likely. Would the federal government institute it prior to a disaster, probably not. In that time, more bad things are going to happen to good people.

[–]disayle32 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

The Israel Defense Force conscripts men and women equally and it's one of the most effective, respected, and feared militaries in the entire world. Care to explain that?

[–]ZenofZer0 -4 points-3 points-2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, the Israeli society is different from general western culture number one. The Israeli military strategy and general operations are different number 2. As I stated before, females failed the infantry standard of everything aside from shooting and basic land navigation (no weight, no combat atmosphere). Change the US military standard so we’re not carrying between 100-180lbs into combat. Women’s bodies break at a higher rate when we enter that territory. We can talk then. Change the standards of fitness. Make it so that slower soldiers are considered “combat ready.” We can talk then. Change the standards so that combat readiness is reduced. Women are more likely to develop PTSD than men? Do you know what you see in combat arms in a time of war? Probably not, but you think you do. You fail to realize that the infantry, scouts, and later special operations were not stood up for equality. Shocking, I know. They were stood up to kill the enemy and the fact that you want to play social engineer and get people killed in the process so that you can make a stupid point that you will never personally face the repercussions for is sickening. As far as your comment, our military is recognized by the free world as the premier military force. Every NATO nation I have trained has looked up to us. They develop tactics based off of what they see America doing and adapt to make it their own. So, sorry but Israel is not number one. Good for their size but you’re comparing apples to watermelons.

[–]disayle32 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Holy crap, wall of text. Learn to use paragraphs. For someone who claims to be a military man, you seem to be completely unaware of the fact that for every soldier whose job it is to kill the enemy, there are a plethora of other people whose jobs are to support that soldier. If a drafted woman is unable to meet the requirements for being a soldier, then she can fill one of those support positions instead. That is not "social engineering". That is common sense. And I never said the IDF was number one. I said they were "one of" the most effective, feared, and respected fighting forces in the entire world. Learn to read.

[–]ZenofZer0 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I’m not talking about soft positions. That was never stated. You know, for someone arguing the draft you do not seem to know about how a draft works... for the last time. THEY DO NOT PICK THEIR JOB. There is not soft core/combat arms choice. Your number is called. You report to a port of call. You get on a bus/plane and you report for duty.

[–]disayle32 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

And when assigning a drafted person to their position, the military never takes into account how effective they will be in that position? It doesn't consider their skills, attributes, talents, abilities, etc.? Are you really saying those aren't relevant at all??

[–]ZenofZer0 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes, they don’t interview you. You don’t get a case worker. You don’t get a career counselor. You get on a bus and go bye-bye.

[–]disayle32 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Then the military doesn't actually care about being effective and that will lose us the next war we get into.

[–]ZenofZer0 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually the military has done pretty well so far. The thing I’m seeing that people don’t seem to get is that the military isn’t about you (as in a single individual). You assimilate to the military. It doesn’t cater to your desires and interests and it says a lot that this theme keeps coming up and people can’t comprehend a world where it’s not about them as the individual. It’s more likely that we’ll lose the next war because of that mindset.

[–]Fearless-File-3625 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

STFU. There are many roles in military that women can fulfil. If you want to be a useless cannon fodder, then that's fine no women is coming to take your role.

[–]ZenofZer0 -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Not worried about a role being taken. I’m worried about combat effectiveness of our military, not your feelings. Once again, during a draft they don’t ask you what you want to do. They tell you (and your number series) where you’re going and what you’re doing. Canons havent been used in a really long time btw.

[–]Fearless-File-3625 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

You need to stop worrying about the military and go look up the meaning of cannon fodder in the dictionary.

[–]ZenofZer0 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Just laugh a bit. I was trying to break senseless tension. I know what it is... although that’s not the object of combat arms, moreso the antithesis of it.

[–]Fearless-File-3625 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

That is exactly what it is.

[–]ZenofZer0 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

No, if they were just cannon fodder, we wouldn’t have won a single armed conflict. Do people get injured and die? Yes, of course. You do everything to avoid that... which feeds right back to my original argument.

[–]Fearless-File-3625 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Fighting useless wars for military industrial complex is being used as cannon fodder.

[–]ZenofZer0 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ah, and the privilege speaks. Bold words spoken from someone who will never feel those repercussions. I absolutely love the arrogance in that statement. Like you’re above it all... save it.

[+]Metroid545 -11 points-10 points-9 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

No draft period but i agree women do not need to be drafted

[–]Fearless-File-3625 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Do you agree that women shouldn't be able to vote ?

[–]Metroid545 -5 points-4 points-3 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

No i do not agree, is that really something up for debate?

[–]coolboy_24278 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

then if they cant be drafted, its only fair that they dont get the same rights as men

[+]Metroid545 -7 points-6 points-5 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Thats not fair at all that logic exists only in a vacuum where there are no differences between women and men but here in reality, men and women are built differently. Men can handle the pain and physical difficulties of war far greater than their counter parts and it can end up doing lasting damage to women far easier. Nobody should be drafted as i said however it is a dumb move to demand women be drafted because we do.

Voting isnt physically demanding either fyi

[–]coolboy_24278 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

look not all men are a monolith. there are some guys like me who cant handlr something like war. therefore i shouldny go and let other men, who like facing danger and risk, go

[–]Metroid545 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I would agree some people arent fit for war and i agreed right off the get go that the draft should be gone period that is not my arguement. My arguement is that we shouldnt be demanding the other sex be on the draft because fire with fire mentality

[–]Fearless-File-3625 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Just shut the fuck up, where was your "nObOdY sHoUlD bE dRaFtEd" bullshit when men are getting drafted for 100+ years. Equal rights also comes with equal responsibilities and yes that means women need to drafted.

[–]Metroid545 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Well i wasnt fucking born 100 years ago and back then circumstances obviously change, you know what doesnt change? How fucked up it would be to throw women on the frontline because fair is fair and not sensible

[–]Fearless-File-3625 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

When were you born? yesterday?

How VERY convenient that you become anti draft the moment talks of women being drafted started? All the more reason to get women drafted. Tradcon man haters like you won't give a shit no matter how many men die in wars.

It is not fucked one bit more to throw a woman on the frontline than to throw a man on the frontline. Stop being a misandric piece of shit and start supporting equal draft.

This amendment is co-sponsored by a woman and in countries where woman have most freedom and equality, the draft is gender neutral. So stop being a misogynistic piece of shit and start supporting equal draft.

[–]Metroid545 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Jesus this troll is out there, Did I really have to declare my position on the draft by a certain date? man are you even trying? Well continue on your little sexist war path against woman but leave us out of it some of us are trying to find a good outcome for us all

[–]Fearless-File-3625 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Did I really have to declare my position on the draft by a certain date?

Yes

man are you even trying?

Are you ? your only argument is "waaah women weak; women no fight". Pathetic. Called me a troll too.

Well continue on your little sexist war path against woman

Only one sexist is YOU.

leave us out of it some of us are trying to find a good outcome for us all

Then stop finding, man haters like you shouldn't be finding any outcome for anyone.

[–]Coomergen -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

r/mensrights is not the sub for you I’m afraid. r\femaledatingstrategy and r\feminism would be a better fit for you.

[–]Metroid545 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Considering im currently only at odds with people that would be perfect for those subs I think Ill pass

[+]Wonderful_Soup4873 -19 points-18 points-17 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

While young women did come home from Afghanistan & Iraq in caskets during our wars in those countries, do we really want to see Vietnam, Korea, or WW-2 casualty levels with significant numbers of female casualties? Do we want to see an invasion on the scale of the Omaha Landings, where 2000 American fighting men lost their lives or went MIA in a day, with 25-35% of the casualties are women? I'm all for allowing women in the Military, but on a volunteer basis, but not drafted.

There is an excellent alternate history trilogy written by Michael Grant "Front Lines", "Silver Stars", & "Purple Hearts" depicting women in combat during WW-2. Read these three books, and you'll more than likely change your mind on women in combat. Just like men, some of them excelled in combat, some of them cracked, but the written depiction of combat I think is accurate, especially the confusion & miscommunication.

[–]Fearless-File-3625 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Do we want to see an invasion on the scale of the Omaha Landings, where 2000 American fighting men lost their lives or went MIA in a day, with 25-35% of the casualties are women?

Yes

[–]disayle32 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The Israel Defense Force conscripts men and women equally and it's one of the most effective, respected, and feared militaries in the entire world. Care to explain that?

[–]LabTech41 -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Why is this an issue? When polled, women themselves say that they don't want to be part of the Draft; that's been the going line since they managed to get suffrage without the price of the Draft.

Plus, not for nothing, but women are ancillary forces at best, are given patently easier requirements, and due to basic biology are liabilities in combat, not assets.

Dangling the Draft in front of Feminists is okay for a laugh so that you can see their blatant hypocrisy, but in practical terms it would be a disaster. I mean, what was it... 4% of them that could pass Basic on male terms?

The Draft is a fossil at this point, and has been ever since service was elective. The only reason you'd even consider retaining it is if the odds of war against another major power that threatened our borders was a serious contention, and even still given the pace of wars these days, the conflict would already largely be decided by the time the first batch of trainees had gotten through the program.

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

If its a "fossil' then why not add women, if its never gonna be used anyway?

[–]LabTech41 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Can I ask a sincere question?

When you wrote that, did you actually consider the question on it's own merits, or did you just detect an opportunity to 'dunk' on someone who was voicing an honest opinion because you thought the rest of the people here would give you cheap internet points for it?

Could we add women to a mechanism that hasn't seen use in almost 50 years? Sure.

Could we go down to the bottom of the ocean and polish the silverware on the Titanic? Definitely.

Does doing either of those things make a practical lick of difference, and only cost money and a ton of grief where it doesn't need to happen? ABSOLUTELY.

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

"Could we go down to the bottom of the ocean and polish the silverware on the Titanic? Definitely."
Yes cuz equalizing the draft registration is exactly like this.

[–]LabTech41 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually, in retrospect, I might've made polishing the silverware on the Titanic too POSSIBLE a task. Would turning straw into gold be a more realistic interpretation of the difficulty level in doing this? If you're a religious man, I guess you could try asking the Almighty if He could create a rock even He couldn't move.

I mean, make no mistake, I recognize the Draft is entirely one-sided here, but you're mixing longstanding political doctrine with the military AND women; I'd say that touching that sort of thing, let alone changing/fixing it is a political third rail, but you'd have to mix poison and some kind of rabid animal into situation to describe how frought with peril that would be.

Actually, all of this is almost besides the point: if you think adding women to the Draft will lead to the end of the Draft because women won't stand for being held to the same standard as men on a matter that isn't profitable or fun for them, then you're almost certainly right, but if you think that would mean the end of mass conscription that would almost certainly lead to a male-heavy candidate pool in the case of a massive war with a major power, you'd be kidding yourself. By definition, any military threat of that magnitude would cause wartime powers to be brought to bear, martial law would almost certainly be in effect, and you'd be going to war whether you like it or not. We've been heading in an authoritarian direction for the better part of 20 years, and it's not like our government's going to get more liberal if they feel they're under legit threat.

[–]miroku000 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

It does make a big and immediate difference though. It rights an injustice that all men face in our society. Men face 5 years in prison and $250,000 fines for not registering for the draft.

[–]LabTech41 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I'll answer both of your comments in this reply.

I'm not arguing that there isn't an imbalance here, I'm saying that out of all the things you want to spend political capital on, THIS is the hill you're choosing to die on? metaphorically?

I'd list all the injustices that are born from the fact that the world bends over backwards twice to cater to women's desires and leaves men to die in the gutter, but at that point we're going well past the word count that Reddit allows, if you catch my meaning.

The way I see it, there's two ways this can change: either the Draft is abolished outright, or women are added to the Draft; which if we're being honest just means that we're abolishing the Draft with more steps, since we all understand that women would never tolerate on any level the possibility that they would have to participate in war. Even women that choose to be in the military often do everything in their power to avoid seeing combat or even the possibility of it; the number that 'coincidentally' get pregnant to preclude that should tell you all you need to know about how most women view the military, and that's as just another form of marrying the State for steady income. I actually spent a brief time in the military myself, and I still remember being in the intake station being processed to ship out, and there was a women sitting like 10 feet away from me who was talking to some guy and telling him how she was going to hustle the situation for the maximum benefit; suffice it to say that she wasn't doing it out of patriotic duty like I was.

Thing is, if something's been around for 50 years, it tends to have its own inertia, and it's like trying to stop a freight train at full speed and momentum. Also, and not to be super black pill about this, but it's shaping up that a major war between the US and/or Russia/China; I mean, those two countries are forming a bloc against us, and it's all but likely that the Middle East is going to join them. That, by definition, would almost certainly mean war, because they'd then have a stranglehold on the world's major sources of material for modern production; especially if China seizes Taiwan and their borderline monopoly on the world's microchip and circuitry production... which it's currently gearing up to do. In such circumstances, Draft or no Draft, the powers of the US and EU, as well as their vassal states, are basically going to throw every warm body they can at the problem until their hegemony is restored; we'll just lie about the reasons, while the Russia/China/ME bloc simply throws their people into the meatgrinder on pain of death if they refuse.

I don't know if you've been paying attention to the creeping authoritarianism that's infected the government over the last 20-30 years, but if you think a piece of legislation being present or not would keep you from being conscripted at gunpoint or pain of imprisonment, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

Let me be clear: I understand where you and the others are coming from, and I totally sympathize with the position; I don't disagree with anyone here AT ALL, I just think that spending energy here is wasted, when it can be used to greater effect elsewhere. If, by some miracle, we equalize society in all the other domains and this is the only one left where women have an unfair advantage, or men have an unfair disadvantage, then I'll be right there beside you on the protest like demanding the Draft be abolished.

[–]miroku000 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I think the Draft is one of the main things stopping something like the Equal Rights Amendment from passing. If we either included women in the draft or abolished it, it could pave the way for passing the ERA. This would be a huge benefit for gender equality.

[–]LabTech41 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Did you read my entire comment? Because it seems like you replied pretty quick... and in response to nothing that I said. It's somewhat disrespectful to have someone talk past you.

[–]miroku000 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Did you read my entire comment? Because it seems like you replied pretty quick... and in response to nothing that I said. It's somewhat disrespectful to have someone talk past you.

I read your entire post. I found most of it not particularly relevant to the issue.

But let me respond more to the points you raised.

  1. This is the hill we should be willing to die on because it has always been the main hesitation of passing the ERA as I mentioned above and you talked passed rather than responding to.
  2. I don't know whether or not women would tolerate participating in war. From my time in the military I knew quite a few women that willingly participated.
  3. Yes, the draft has inertia. Ideally, the courts would step in and make it for all genders. They didn't do that because Congress was in the process of changing it. Even having Congress try and fail to change it is better than nothing because it means the courts will likely step in and make it for all genders.
  4. Yes, when world war 3 breaks out, we will likely throw lots of warm bodies at it. But not *every* warm body. We will, as of now throw only every warm *male* body. This is yet another reason why we must add women to the draft now, not later.
  5. I am not sure I know what you mean about the creeping authoritarianism.
  6. Yes, I get you don't think it is worth spending energy on. But at the same time, you think it is likely that a bunch of men will be killed if we do not spend energy on it.
  7. The draft is the main thing that stands in the way of stopping the ERA. This is the single most important thing we could do for gender equality. That's why it is a pre-requisite to fixing most other gender equality issues men face at least in terms of the law.

[–]LabTech41 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I read your entire post. I found most of it not particularly relevant to the issue.

You know, if you're going to be that bad faith, why even participate in the thread? Dick move to try and purport yourself otherwise, if you ask me. I steel-manned your position to the gunwales.

1 - No it's not, and you're kidding yourself that imagining that undoing this bit of political calcification will somehow magically give us a piece of legislation that ALSO won't do a damn thing to correct the imbalances. Just look at how far Amber Heard got on the flimsiest of pretexts, and ask yourself if some paper on the books would've prevented any of that.

2 - Anecdotes are proof of nothing, and are actually the weakest form of evidence, if they're evidence at all. If I dip a mug into the ocean, and there's no whales in it, am I to then conclude that whales don't exist?

3 - This is wishful thinking at best, and NO: trying and failing isn't a step in the right direction, because then you'd solidified only one thing, the fact that the status quo is to be maintained since it not only exists, but now has precedent to back it up. Even if God himself came down from the heavens and handed your vaunted piece of legislation to Congress, that would do jack-all, because who in their right mind is going to use it as the foundation of any action against the myriad other ways that women have advantage? Is the ERA going to prevent women being the majority domestic abusers? Will it give equal custody chance to men and women in the event of divorce, and actually check to see if the woman is even fit to be a mother?

4 - Oh, well, just so long as some of the bodies in the ditch have uteruses, all of this was worth it, eh?

5 - Dude, really? Maybe you're too young to remember when we had rights and freedoms in this country, but we did, and we don't now; not really if the powers that be decide you're a problem.

6 - If that's what you inferred from what I said, then you weren't paying attention, at all. You are off in the hinterlands staring at daisies, while the real problems are back at home staring you in the face. You deal with THOSE, and you'll find that minor frivolities like this will solve themselves.

7 - This is just a rehash of item #1. Honestly, I have no idea why you'd put so much stock in a piece of legislation like this; you're taking policy making to an almost biblical degree, and it's not even frustrating... it's just confusing. FFS, this is a piece of paper that's been bandied around the halls of power for a CENTURY, and women have never had more sway in those halls, so the idea that you'd be able to swing them compelled to the Draft AND eliminate each and every advantage they've had for generations... like... dude; you might as well be asking them to hang themselves by their own entrails, that's how against their personal interests your demands are. Not only do you have zero chance of getting either of those to happen, the reprisals against you or anyone who'd attempt it would ruin the MRA movement for years.

In short, you fundamentally miss the point about what needs to be done to fix the imbalances. You're trying for an obvious, top-down approach that's doomed to fail because every opponent will see it coming from a mile away, and they're the ones that have the leadership structure by the balls. What we SHOULD be doing is a subtle, decentralized, bottom-up approach to help shift the cultural norms BACK to normalcy in a reverse of what third wave feminism did to tip the balance in their favor; only when society at large is truly open and receptive to men's rights issues will they even deign to humor such legislative changes. That's why I said you have to spend the energy elsewhere.

As a metaphor: you want to storm the gates from the front when they've seen you coming the whole time; I want to walk through the gates, learn their ways, then convince the people there that their leaders aren't serving their interests so that by the time it comes to open conflict, there's enough people there to help fling the gates open from inside. If you want to die outside the ramparts like a fool, you do you boo; others, however, have a smarter idea.

Honestly, I didn't want to be this rude, but you kind of forced my hand by your disrespectful dismissal. Shape up or move off.

[–]miroku000 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

​

I agree with you here that someone is acting in bad faith. I think it is you though. You are the one who is being insulting.

​

1 - No it's not, and you're kidding yourself that imagining that undoing this bit of political calcification will somehow magically give us a piece of legislation that ALSO won't do a damn thing to correct the imbalances.

The ERA would correct almost all injustices men face as of now under the law. The primary objection to it was women might get drafted.

​

Just look at how far Amber Heard got on the flimsiest of pretexts, and ask yourself if some paper on the books would've prevented any of that.

She didn't get all that far. She published an article that defamed one guy. She got sued and lost badly. You are never going to be able to stop people from being able to defame each other. The only remedy is exactly what happened. If someone is defamed, they get sued later.

​

2 - Anecdotes are proof of nothing, and are actually the weakest form of evidence, if they're evidence at all. If I dip a mug into the ocean, and there's no whales in it, am I to then conclude that whales don't exist?

I agree. Do you have any other evidence other than your single anecdote of hearing one woman once in the military that wanted to abuse the system?

  1. The Supreme Court specifically declined to take the case about women in the Draft because Congress was in the process of revising the law. So, if Congress definitely rejects revising the law, the Supreme Court no longer has that reason to not weigh in, The court forcing women into the draft is the most like scenario to end the male-only draft.

You are right that the ERA will probably not help these two issues. It is unclear what would help in the issue of domestic violence.

In the case of child custody, however, rather than a subtle campaign of moving society back to old cultural norms, I would recommend that States adopt default equal custody. The cultural norms we had before would probably result in even more women getting full custody. This is not some pipe dream. Many states are adopting these policies.

https://www.parents.com/news/more-states-need-laws-that-bolster-shared-parenting-according-to-a-new-report/#:\~:text=Meanwhile%2C%20the%20number%20of%20states,states%20got%20Ds%20or%20Fs.

  1. No one wants any of our military to end up in ditches. But this is the nature of war. If world war breaks out and we need a draft, we should draft both men and women. It is likely the vast majority of women would not end up in combat even if they are drafted. 90 percent of troops never see combat. But are you saying that you prefer a world where only men are killed in war? If so, why are you even here?

  2. Maybe you are too young to remember how oppressive our society used to be. We only got rid of the last slaves in the US at the beginning of World War II. https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89051115

So, what specifically are you talking about? Are you mad stores made you wear masks during the pandemic and that people wanted you to get vaccinated? Are you mad about not being allowed to bring guns to school any more? Not being able to buy automatic weapons? Tougher enforcement against jaywalking? What exactly do you feel is so authoritarian?

  1. Maybe you feel the constitution is just a piece of paper. But it can be used in courts to strike down laws that unfairly favor men over women or vice versa.

If the Supreme Court struck down the male-only draft then no legislation would be needed. No votes would be needed. They could decide to make a law that ended the draft at that point, which would be fine too.

And now you feel the ERA will eliminate all the advantages women had for centuries? I thought you believed it was unimportant. I will admit the ERA is a bit of a long shot. But it is much more likely than changing society back to normalcy.

The Draft can be struck down by the Supreme Court. It just takes one court case at a time when they are not in the process of debating changing the draft to include women. So, it is not impossible by any means.

The ERA was championed by Feminists. Some feminists resisted it because they worried it might include them in the draft. I think they could be motivated to support it again despite the fact that it would probably not help women all that much at this point. Most feminists believe that all society favors men, so they have trouble comprehending that the only laws left that discriminate on the basis of sex favor women.

​

In short, you fundamentally miss the point about what needs to be done to fix the imbalances. You're trying for an obvious, top-down approach that's doomed to fail because every opponent will see it coming from a mile away, and they're the ones that have the leadership structure by the balls.

This is interesting. So do you think all the state laws making default joint custody are failing to be passed? It seems like 26 states passed those in the last few years despite opposition from feminists.

What we SHOULD be doing is a subtle, decentralized, bottom-up approach to help shift the cultural norms BACK to normalcy in a reverse of what third wave feminism did to tip the balance in their favor; only when society at large is truly open and receptive to men's rights issues will they even deign to humor such legislative changes.

I see what you are saying. Though I don't think having congress vote on whether or not to include women in the draft will stop anyone from having a bottom up approach. But we can agree to disagree on that point.

Rather than a subtle campaign of moving society back to normalcy, I would recommend States adopt default equal custody. The cultural norms we had before would probably result in even more women getting full custody unless we go back to before the 1800's when the Tender Years Doctrine became prevalent.

​

That's why I said you have to spend the energy elsewhere.As a metaphor: you want to storm the gates from the front when they've seen you coming the whole time; I want to walk through the gates, learn their ways, then convince the people there that their leaders aren't serving their interests so that by the time it comes to open conflict, there's enough people there to help fling the gates open from inside.

If you like analogies, then the way I see it is that I want to attack enemy fortifications to fix the problems men face in society with constitutional amendments, legislation and lawsuits, and you are recommending that we instead tilt at windmills because you are worried that attacking the enemy fortifications will upset the enemy.

Keep in mind that we have already taken like 26 fortifications. So your talk of it being impossible to take the fortifications seems a bit exaggerated.

If you want to die outside the ramparts like a fool, you do you boo; others, however, have a smarter idea.Honestly, I didn't want to be this rude, but you kind of forced my hand by your disrespectful dismissal. Shape up or move off.

I'm sorry you felt disrespected by my dismissal. But you were the first person to be insulting. So don't blame me for that.

I would say work on tilting at windmills if that is what makes you happy. Just try not to get in the way of the people fighting the actual battles.

[–]miroku000 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Men don't want to be part of the draft either. If by ancillary forces, you mean non-combat roles, then 90 percent of the military is ancillary forces. So, the vast majority of men in the military are also ancillary forces. This is no reason to oppose the draft.

[+][deleted] -8 points-7 points-6 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

We have to think hard about this one beys. Would this really be to our benefit (emotions aside). I can think of many reasons as to why it wouldn’t.

[–]disayle32 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The Israel Defense Force conscripts men and women equally and it's one of the most effective, respected, and feared militaries in the entire world. Care to explain that?

[+][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah sure they hve about 160k soldiers and about 10k are women. So thanks for coming out. NEXT

[–]Jakeybaby125 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Feminists supposedly want equality right?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I get your point. As long as they are on your squad and not mine.

[–]Any-Gur-3482-9 points 4 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

How about non-binary/gender non con-formative? Are they being forced into the draft?

Also, who will stay home with kids???

[–]Fearless-File-3625 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How about non-binary/gender non con-formative? Are they being forced into the draft?

Yes

Also, who will stay home with kids???

The parent who is not drafted.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I really hope they start to let men escape the military draft.

[–]Drougen 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's weird

[–]mogaman28 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Feminist most relieved.

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well it's only common sense as they do away with abortion the Draft for women will never happen. I live in a Republican state , as soon as Roe vs Wade is squashed abortion is illegal pretty much.
Women are for procreating not fighting in a Red state.

[–]Baistrocco1 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Guys, you need to personally target each of these politicians. They must be harassed every time they step out of the door. Make their life a living hell. Bitching on Internet is not gonna change anything.

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