Slates take on make circumcision.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2013-09-18T19:47:24+00:00

Yet in the past two decades, a fringe group of self-proclaimed “intactivists” has hijacked the conversation, dismissing science, slamming reason, and tossing splenetic accusations at anyone who dares question their conspiracy theory.

Well this is certainly an unbiased take.

None of intactivists’ cornerstone beliefs are based in reality or science

I know right? Why can't they recognize the clearly proven scientific fact that circumcision is part of man's covenant with Yahweh as laid out in the Torah and is the only way to redeem us for our sins. The foreskin adds too much extra weight for a soul to ascend to heaven.

IT'S CALLED SCIENCE PEOPLE!

poloppoyop · 2013-09-18T14:44:04+00:00

circumcision is clearly in men’s best interest

Nope. Nope. No thanks.

There are times I'm happy not having been born in the US or any other third world country where this kind of shit is widespread. Reading through this article was one.

unclefisty · 2013-09-18T21:08:49+00:00

That fact that mutilating any infants genitals without a clear life threatening reason doesn't cause these peoples souls to shriek in horror deeply disturbs me.

femdelusion · 2013-09-18T13:41:32+00:00

Your parents, you are told by the intactivists, mutilated you when you were a defenseless child, violating your human rights and your bodily integrity. Without your consent...

Note that nothing he said addressed that fundamental point.

FleetingWish · 2013-09-18T19:14:48+00:00

circumcision is clearly in men’s best interest

So, I'm sure if you let adult men make the decision for themselves, they'll line up for it. After all, it is in their best interest, and has so many benefits!

westhau · 2013-09-19T01:59:30+00:00

He certainly handpicked articles, Take a look at the google search on male sensitivity and circumcision almost all articles taking a stance say that it does decrease sensitivity. Wiki is a notable exception, however.

I personally have no problem with calling it male genital mutilation. I can see how people unaware with the consequences on male sexuality might take offense to the comparison to female genital mutilation.

Personally, I have to wonder if the effects are as large in male genital mutilation as in female. I know there are more than one type of female genital mutilation, but in what I believe is the most common practice of removing the clitoris, I feel it has to have a much larger impact. It is very hard to quantify this accurately, however, and I don't think that should have any bearing on whether it should be called male genital mutilation or if it should be common practice.

dalsgaard · 2013-09-18T15:21:03+00:00

Maybe he should prephase that entire article with the words: "In the US". here in Europe, pretty much all doctors advise against MGM - saying there is absolutely no need to do it. Furthermore, the vast majority of people here are not circumcised for a reason.

Maybe he wants to address that?

Consilio_et_Animis · 2013-09-18T23:14:26+00:00

TAKE HEART Don't let the Slate article get you down. Mark Stern is not a professional like the amazing women and men below. He will be defeated.

He ponders: "Is it only a matter of time until they win the greater war?". Well the answer is YES!

Wonderful news from Europe: Norway and Denmark getting close towards banning male genital mutilation. Holland is looking positive & Finland working hard. Women leading the fight. Full conference report here!

Wonderful and amazing news from Europe. I just spent two days at the Genital Autonomy conference at Keele University, UK:

http://www.genitalautonomy.org

Lawyers, doctors, journalists, human rights activists, genital rights activists, government personal, NGOs and many others met to plan a worldwide ban on MGM. Delegates came from across Europe, the USA and the rest of the world.

I was amazed at the number of humble, courageous women leading the fight. I had the honour to meet Marilyn Milos who has dedicated her life since 1979 to ending this terrible practice:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_Milos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMzMoNfMQE

"Only by denying the existence of excruciating pain, perinatal encoding of the brain with violence, interruption of maternal-infant bonding, betrayal of infant trust, the risks and effects of permanently altering normal genitalia, the right of human beings to sexually intact and functional bodies, and the right to individual religious freedoms can human beings continue this practice". — Marilyn Milos

Dr Anne Lindboe from Norway gave a talk. She is the Children's Ombudsman for Norway. Anne is a pediatrician and forensic pathologist:

Conference picture: http://t.co/8uqatc3Lo6

Anne did the autopsy on a little boy who bled to death after having his genitals mutilated ("circumcision"). She vowed that day to put an end to MGM in Norway. See her talking here at an earlier conference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74NJSOjBTNI

Anne says that Norway is now looking towards banning MGM, and she already has the support of enough members of parliament and political parties, and the authorities in Norway.

Lena Nyhus from Denmark also gave an amazing talk. She now has the support of many of the most important authorities in Denmark and a majority of members of parliament. So banning MGM in Denmark is on the horizon as well:

Conference picture: http://t.co/39QOHNTOdZ

http://justasnip.wordpress.com

Very tellingly, the London Metropolitan Police sent one of their experienced child-protection officers - Detective Constable Tina Pearce - to update us on Operation Azure, the fight against FGM.

Conference picture: http://t.co/hbIRChZnIN

Although they couldn't state it directly; the implication was clear - the Metropolitan Police consider MGM to be a crime along side FGM. They just need the national viewpoint to shift, so they can pursue MGM with the same gusto. The conference gave Tina and the Met our full support, and I took some FGM leaflets to give to some school teachers I know.

So another great women standing by the side of men fighting MGM: Detective Constable Tina Pearce is compassionate, hard-working and professional. You could just feel her support for the injustice of MGM.

MGM is easily in breach of the European Convention on Human Rights [ECHR]. A wonderful UK Barrister (top lawyer) - James Chegwidden - gave an illuminating talk on the law, and took us through it stage by stage:

Conference picture: http://t.co/JEGcRjQTsC

The ECHR overrides all the laws of the European countries who have ratified it. It gives no weight to religious or cultural beliefs where the fundamentals of the law and human rights are concerned; nor does it in anyway consider that children are the property of their parents - rather they are distinct individuals in their own right.

Article 3 prohibits torture, and "inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment". There are no exceptions or limitations on this right. This provision usually applies, apart from torture, to cases of severe police violence and poor conditions in detention.

The Court have emphasised the fundamental nature of Article 3 in holding that the prohibition is made in "absolute terms".

James cited a case where a man had been held down by wardens in a prison and all his hair had been shaved off as punishment. The ECHR deemed this in violation of Article 3.

Another case cited, was that of a man that was stripped-search as he visited a prison. His foreskin was pulled back by the person performing the search. This was deemed to be in violation of Article 8 - which confers the protection of physical and psychological integrity of the body and the mind.

http://echr-online.com/art-8-echr/private-life/physical-integrity

So forced amputation of the foreskin is sure to count I would imagine!

James emphasised that the law follows the social movements of the time, so first we need education, education, education of the general public. But the time is soon coming when a ECHR case will be raised and judged in favour of a total ban on MGM across Europe.

There were also great representatives from Germany, who are fighting hard to overturn the German law legalising MGM - even though a court had deemed it assault and illegal. For reasons you can imagine, Germany were going to find it hard to be the first country in Europe (and the world) to ban MGM.

Holland is also looking good. And Finland is staring to raise parliamentary motions. Lots of great people fighting hard in those countries as well. Plus us in the UK battle away daily.

Amazingly, the Nordic countries vie with each other to be the most advanced in human rights - so once one goes down a given path, the others hurry to follow in their footsteps.

From there it will be a domino effect across Europe. And as far as many human rights go (gay marriage etc); they start in the Nordic countries, then spread to the rest of Europe, and then make their way across the atlantic - although that can take a while :-).

So please don't worry about all the silly pundits on the internet trying to promote MGM and belittle those who fight against it. And don't think for one minute that there are not many, many women working hard to ban MGM and can see it for the horror it is.

So many smart, intelligent, professional and influential people in Europe and around the world can see it's a no-brainer that MGM is a crime against humanity: politicians, lawyers and legal experts, doctors and medical specialists, plus many others. They are not interested in the religious, cultural and "medical" red herrings that are thrown around by the supporters of MGM; and they place no weight on men who have been subjected to MGM claiming that they have suffered no harm, and that they should be able to inflict the same "non-suffering" on their own and other's children.

Victory in Europe is now clearly on the horizon.

Keep fighting this good fight for all humankind.

PerniciousOne · 2013-09-18T15:12:25+00:00

If the foreskin was not an important piece of the male reproductive organ why are we born with it.

Why do we not remove the gall bladder on babies because they may have issues later in life?

Why do we not remove the clitoral hood to reduce sensitivity with it in the future.

General_Tsos_Chicken · 2013-09-18T18:05:05+00:00

Notice the author's last name. I wonder what his religious background is...

BuncyTheFrog · 2013-09-18T13:57:41+00:00

If claims of medical health can be defeated by regular hygiene and safe sex practices, then shame, shame, fear monger, and shame some more!

femdelusion · 2013-09-18T13:02:31+00:00

The fact that feminists are so heavily invested in continuing the practice of male genital mutilation on baby boys is really sickening.

Nutz76 · 2013-09-18T15:01:59+00:00

The comments on that article are sickening. The amount of misandry and general bigotry is just astounding.

bl1y · 2013-09-18T21:53:32+00:00

Why don't people who support mutilating boys for the purposes of fighting STDs (and somehow the STD rates in Africa are relevant to hygiene in America...), also support make condoms free?

And I mean good condoms, like Trojan Twisted (discontinued, fucking shame).

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2013-09-18T18:16:33+00:00

He brings up that same stupid, flawed study out of Africa. I can't believe anybody in the medical community takes that thing seriously.

Eryemil · 2013-09-20T10:17:43+00:00

The point is that it is NOT just a bit of skin any more than our eyelids and lips are a piece if skin or the clitoris is. And it is as much of a human Rights violation as amputating any other body part would be, even a useless one such as the earlobes.

The right to bodily sovereignty is the second mist important after the right of life.

General_Tsos_Chicken · 2013-09-19T05:02:22+00:00

I'm going to be honest, being a circumcised male... i honestly do not see the big deal here. It's excess skin that seemingly serves no purpose, sure, lets not do it from now on because you hurting a baby for old and outdated reasons. But I really dislike the claim that I am somehow less fortunate because I am missing a few inches of skin on my penis, that's complete bullshit.

destruedo · 2013-09-18T21:34:41+00:00

The weird and disproportionate obsession that MRAs have with circumcision is one of the biggest turn-offs of the whole movement.

theoriginalmypooper · 2013-09-19T20:12:41+00:00

Godzilla people, I'm cut, I'm cool with it, I dont even remember the day it happened. no pain. not that bad.

Title	Slates take on make circumcision.
Author	Collective82
Upvotes	42
Comments	121
Date	September 18, 2013 12:32 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1mmze6/slates_take_on_make_circumcision/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/slates-take-on-make-circumcision.1163556 https://theredarchive.com/post/1163556

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