Humor Break | MensRights

Look, your linked post is the same deal - I agree with about 90% of it. It's absolutely absurd to me that so many feminists honestly believe that problems facing men can only be addressed through the prism of feminism, an idea so asinine on its face that I can't even take it with a straight face. Even worse, that they fail to recognize that some of the problems that men face are caused by the feminist movement.

But not all elements of feminism are so radical, and I think that there are men and women who identify that way who are off-put by the apparent hostility to a group they feel invested in who would otherwise have no beef with MRAs. I personally believe that there is still a use for feminism, especially in the third world, but to a lesser extent still in countries like the U.S.A. Certainly while feminists have made a lot of headway there are still problems facing women that need addressing, and true feminists should have no need for hostility with MRAs. Cartoons like in the original post do not help that particular cause.

[–]oneiorosgrip 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]dietTwinkies 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

You may be right. Honestly, the only interaction I've had with feminists has been over the internet. I've never met a woman in the physical world who did more than dabble or have a few choice comments at something they found offensive.

As for the rest, they still support those who are that radical, joining organizations that lobby for discriminatory law and policy, spouting the same theory and philosophy as groups who create campaigns to demonize men. In doing that, they make themselves no different from the radicals who want to see all men castrated or killed, except that their presentation is more palatable to the public.

But, see, this is part of your rhetoric I struggle with, and it's because I've seen it before. That's pure Dawkins. When I was more active with atheism and I would read Richard Dawkins I thought he was brilliant and persuasive. And he made this argument as well, that religious moderates were equally as dangerous as fundamentalist muslims and terrorists because they they tolerated and supported the foundation for these horrible ideologies. He made the claim that since they still revered the books that these radicals used to justify their evil deeds, that all religious people were somehow culpable. But of course, this isn't true. It just isn't. Tacit acceptance or apathy as an act is not as morally bankrupt as the crime itself. And throwing out accusations like that doesn't make many friends.

I don't know how familiar you are with the man, but all Dawkins' rhetoric did was make him entirely disagreeable to anyone who wasn't already predisposed by confirmation bias to approve of him. There are better ways to go about it, I believe that don't alienate potential allies. Politeness is not without value, even when dealing with a potential enemy.

[–]oneiorosgrip 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]dietTwinkies 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Right, so I think I'm not properly emphasizing the point that I'm trying to get across. Regardless of the veracity of your claims, what I'm proposing is a solution to in-group out-group hostility. Anytime humans (or any sufficiently intelligent creature) form a group, they have a tendency to be more generous to those inside the group, and suspicious of those outside of it. I'm sure you know that; I'm just stating for clarity. Those groups can be formed by the most minor of circumstances. My point is that there may be many self-identified feminists who don't realize the nature of the more radical form of the ideology who might be keen to listen so long as they see a friendly face when they knock on the door. There's no need to respond to feminists with bile, even if you believe them existing in a state beyond reason. Because those in the audience who can reason may be turned off by the sight. That's all.

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It's not about convincing those that don't like us that they are wrong, that's not worth the trouble; It's about providing proof, for those that are unaware, that the inequality between our sexes are not only in favor of men.

How are they to take this seriously if we don't?

Every time there is a post like this that boils down to a circlejerk about how feminists are stupid without any provided factual proof of something someone said or did, this subreddit takes a step closer to becoming like the sad joke that /r/atheism is; Something even those that identify as atheist don't want to touch with a ten foot pole.

It is just a joke, yes, but this is not the place for it. To those not in on the joke, aware of the hypocrisy of many radical feminists, it will discredit us by making us appear to be spouting ignorant hate about how women don't need more rights because there is no problem instead of the real message of radical feminists are silly, let us all point our finger and laugh at their hypocrisy.

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Copied from another post I wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I am an egalitarian, not a feminist. I disagree with many aspects of feminism and feminist theory. But representing feminism as a robot shouting "RAPE!" is a stupid over exaggeration that just solidifies the "Feminist=Bad" part of MRA's brain and the "MRA=Bad" part of feminist's brains.

You mean the group that believes that when a man and a woman go to a bar, and they fuck, that she was raped.

Do you really think all feminist think that? Excluding the radical feminists, the large majority of feminists would not consider that rape, assuming that she wasn't passed out.

Fuck off back to your bridge concern troll

I'm just trying to help the people who are supposed to be concerned about mens issues/rights, because I care about men who are harmed by gender based discrimination

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Laughter is good for our health.

Umm... ok.

How is it mischaracterization?

Don't get me wrong, I am an egalitarian, not a feminist. I disagree with many aspects of feminism and feminist theory. But representing feminism as a robot shouting "RAPE!" is a stupid over exaggeration that just solidifies the "Feminist=Bad" part of MRA's brain and the "MRA=Bad" part of feminist's brains.

Rape is something feminists bring up a lot, and they certainly 'cry rape' at a lot of objectional scenarios.

MRA's talk about rape all the time too. Look at the front page of this subreddit. One of the main MRA issues is the double standard society has between male and female victims of rape.

What if you saw this exact same cartoon on a feminist blog, except the word "Feminist" was replaced with "MRA" and "RAPE" was replaced with "MEN ARE RAPED TOO!" And in the comments people were saying how funny it was. How would that make you feel? How would that affect your view of feminism?

I understand your anger towards feminism, but please try to understand that this is not the way to help men. When a bunch of people who care about mens issues are viewed negatively, the men they try to help are the victims.

How does this make us hateful? Sexist? How is it apologist for rape to say that some people cry rape when it is not?

I said that that is how it may appear to a non MRA. What if someone misinterpreted and instead of thinking that you have a different definition of rape to feminists that you just didn't care about women being raped and wanted feminist to stop whining? I have a friend who identify s as as feminist, but agrees with many of mens rights issues that I bring up with her. She is unaware of the online MRM, if i showed her this comic she would be instantly turned of. That is what i am trying to prevent, because i care about mens issues/rights.

It is only 'apologism' for rape if we accept that it IS rape, which we do not.

But from the perspective of people who do view it as rape, it is rape apologia. Just like you wold consider it rape apologia if someone said "Men can't be raped." I was talking about how it would be perceived to an outsider.

Edit: typo

[–]tyciol 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

representing feminism as a robot shouting "RAPE!" is a stupid over exaggeration

That's why it's funny. We're not taking it seriously.

just solidifies the "Feminist=Bad" part of MRA's brain and the "MRA=Bad" part of feminist's brains.

No it doesn't 'just' do that. It does that to a group of idiots in both circles who should be mocked for their denseness.

What if you saw this exact same cartoon on a feminist blog, except the word "Feminist" was replaced with "MRA" and "RAPE" was replaced with "MEN ARE RAPED TOO!"

Wouldn't be the same. MART has context, it's a full sentence. RAPE is just a single word, no context, thus the ridiculousness.

in the comments people were saying how funny it was. How would that make you feel? How would that affect your view of feminism?

Wouldn't necessarily affect my view of feminism at all, it isn't just them who mock men and MRA.

I understand your anger towards feminism, but please try to understand that this is not the way to help men.

Comic isn't about anger, it's about delight in the absurd and the exaggeration thereof. Anger is not the only thing people feel towards movements like this. I'm angry at religion too but most of the jokes I laugh at about it are not rooted in anger but rather in how hilariously absurd it is. There comes a point where anger at idiocy is pointless. Humor usually isn't rooted in anger.

I said that that is how it may appear to a non MRA. What if someone misinterpreted and instead of thinking that you have a different definition of rape to feminists that you just didn't care about women being raped and wanted feminist to stop whining?

That would make them presumptuous idiots. I'm not going to censor a funny comic or my speech worrying that people are going to make shit up in their heads about my motives or feelings. They do that shit regardless.

I have a friend who identify s as as feminist, but agrees with many of mens rights issues that I bring up with her. She is unaware of the online MRM, if i showed her this comic she would be instantly turned of.

Then she has a ways to go. Teach her about cognitive distortions and not to jump the gun in assuming others' motives.

from the perspective of people who do view it as rape, it is rape apologia.

Who gives a fuck? From the 'perspective' of people with twisted illogical brains, anything can be anything. I'm not going to limit the shit we can say or look at just because of how people are going to make shit up in their heads.

There are people so fucking mental that they're going to assume you want to rob them just because you're walking on the same side of the street as them. Does that mean we should have to cross?

Just like you wold consider it rape apologia if someone said "Men can't be raped."

That isn't rape apologia, it's just idiocy. Rape apologia is "it's okay to rape men".

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Title	Humor Break
Author	Hirudin
Upvotes	643
Comments	103
Date	July 21, 2013 11:06 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1iryiz/humor_break/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/humor-break.1168251 https://theredarchive.com/post/1168251

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